1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 11:31 AM EDT

    I think Seau is about adding more balance between the 4-3 and the 3-4! pats have played a lot of 4-3 lately. Pierre woods stinks in the 4-3. He's more of a 3-4 guy. Junior can play both but if Mayo is healthy and we are at full strength, I really do not see how we can give them both enough reps. Junior is not coming back to ride the bench or the inactive list. That will be quite a linebacker/DL rotation, with Mayo, guyton, thomas, banta-cain, burgess, seau and woods as your primary linebackers! Will alexander or ninovich (?) be cut?   
     

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    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 12:32 PM EDT

    According to one of Bruschi's ESPN blog posts, the Pats did indeed transition to a 4-3 this year.  However, I don't think that means as much nowadays.  Around 50% of our plays are neither 4-3 nor 3-4, they are one of our sub packages. 

    BB has always played both 3-4 and 4-3, but mostly 3-4.  This year that will be reversed, but our shortage at LB has prevented us from playing hardly any 3-4.  Seau will allow the D to show one more wrinkle to opponents this year.  I think he is better than Woods, even at 40.  Woods is not where our future lies.  Of course neither is Seau.  
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonnyCorlione. Show SonnyCorlione's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 12:52 PM EDT

    There is no reason for them to close the door on running some 34 but the personnel isn't there either way.  I mean, Burgess and TBC are listed as OLB/DE hybrids but they're really just DEs that could play OLB if a 34 were to be utilized. 

    Without Seau the Pats have THREE true linebackers to put on the field right now.  The depth at the position is so horrendous, I've never heard of this in my life.  I have a feeling Belichick was anticipating making the call but not this soon.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 1:46 PM EDT

    from what i have read, pats have played about 60% 4-3, and 35% sub packages. only about 5% of the snaps have come from a 3-4. that is a major imbalance and takes  away the flexibility and varaibility that bel likes. seau adds that. he technically can still play both LB positions, plus the hybrid role mcgowan/rodney harrison play, plus as a wrinkle, u can have him line up like TBC and burgess! he is still a great blitzer when he comes. great move by bel. even as just an extra coach or set of eyes, seau makes things better. in goal line pressure situations, last minute drives, i want him in there some where. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 1:58 PM EDT

    In Response to Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    I think Seau is about adding more balance between the 4-3 and the 3-4! pats have played a lot of 4-3 lately. Pierre woods stinks in the 4-3. He's more of a 3-4 guy. Junior can play both but if Mayo is healthy and we are at full strength, I really do not see how we can give them both enough reps. Junior is not coming back to ride the bench or the inactive list. That will be quite a linebacker/DL rotation, with Mayo, guyton, thomas, banta-cain, burgess, seau and woods as your primary linebackers! Will alexander or ninovich (?) be cut?   
    Posted by bubbakilla


    Alexander and Ninkovich are regular special teams contributors - I think at least one of them stays to continue doing that.  I also think that your point about the shortage at LB was dead-on, which is why I think the team will try to keep both around.

    I'm hoping Galloway works out, but I'm thinking they'd cut him because he won't contribute on special teams if he doesn't make the grade as a receiver.  I think BenJarvis Green-Ellis would be in the hot seat along with Maroney.  Right now the team is keeping 5 runningbacks instead of the usual four.  I forget his name, but the third string tight end behind Watson and Baker might also be considered along with their project offensive lineman du jour.

    As for 3-4, I'd love to see more of it.  The more looks you can show, the better, but with only 3 pure linebackers it wasn't possible.  I still don't think we'll see much until Mayo gets back - even with four, it would only take one injury to be back at square one.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 2:32 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    In Response to Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4? : Alexander and Ninkovich are regular special teams contributors - I think at least one of them stays to continue doing that.  I also think that your point about the shortage at LB was dead-on, which is why I think the team will try to keep both around. I'm hoping Galloway works out, but I'm thinking they'd cut him because he won't contribute on special teams if he doesn't make the grade as a receiver.  I think BenJarvis Green-Ellis would be in the hot seat along with Maroney.  Right now the team is keeping 5 runningbacks instead of the usual four.  I forget his name, but the third string tight end behind Watson and Baker might also be considered along with their project offensive lineman du jour. As for 3-4, I'd love to see more of it.  The more looks you can show, the better, but with only 3 pure linebackers it wasn't possible. I still don't think we'll see much until Mayo gets back - even with four, it would only take one injury to be back at square one.
    Posted by NickC1188
    nice post. perhaps junior could take over the mayo role til he gets back and guyton can go bak outside with thomas in a 4-3. i would start seau because he is still amongst the BEST at stopping the run! 
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 2:43 PM EDT

    Seau has a limited number of plays in him, so I don't think you'll see him in there for more then 10-15 plays a game. I see him in shorter 3rd down plays in which they need to stuff the pocket or zone cover the line. For this role he is perfect. Don't expect him to fully cover a player or chase down a runner but leaving him in a spy role from the line to 5 yrds back would help our 3rd down rates, that seem to be lacking. This also allows you to push Guyton outside for a play to cover the TE. With Guyton on the TE Thomas can plug gap or rush, a role he is better suited for then coverage.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 3:05 PM EDT

    More 3/4...

    We create more pressure from the standard 3/4 or from the 2-4-5 packages we've been running with TBC and Burgess rushing than with the 4/3.  Jarvis Green is good in situational pass rushing but has done very little sacking this season.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ehop14. Show Ehop14's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 3:55 PM EDT

    This seems pretty simple to me. Seau starts at MLB in a 4-3 and Guyton moves outside and takes Woods' spot. When Mayo gets back, we can switch to a 3-4 with Mayo and Seau inside and Guyton and Thomas outside. Then you have plenty of LB depth with TBC, Burgess, Woods, and Alexander coming of the bench.
     

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    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 4:04 PM EDT

    Wood's is not a very good NFL quality football player.  I'm not sure he would even make another teams roster.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from steve1581. Show steve1581's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 4:41 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    This seems pretty simple to me. Seau starts at MLB in a 4-3 and Guyton moves outside and takes Woods' spot. When Mayo gets back, we can switch to a 3-4 with Mayo and Seau inside and Guyton and Thomas outside. Then you have plenty of LB depth with TBC, Burgess, Woods, and Alexander coming of the bench.
    Posted by Ehop14



    Spot On!


    and thats not true KMAX 
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from markes8336. Show markes8336's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 5:27 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    This seems pretty simple to me. Seau starts at MLB in a 4-3 and Guyton moves outside and takes Woods' spot. When Mayo gets back, we can switch to a 3-4 with Mayo and Seau inside and Guyton and Thomas outside. Then you have plenty of LB depth with TBC, Burgess, Woods, and Alexander coming of the bench.
    Posted by Ehop14


    BINGO!
    With added flexibility in the LB rotation.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 6:00 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    More 3/4... We create more pressure from the standard 3/4 or from the 2-4-5 packages we've been running with TBC and Burgess rushing than with the 4/3.  Jarvis Green is good in situational pass rushing but has done very little sacking this season.
    Posted by wozzy

    i would still start seau, to be solid at start of the game and second half when teams tend to run and bring him back for third and shorts or when teams are likely to run like if they are leadg and wanna run clock. u can then bring in mcgowan and others in those exotic packages. guyton and mayo should be playg ALL the snaps regardless of any package changes. 
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 6:54 PM EDT

    In Response to Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    I think Seau is about adding more balance between the 4-3 and the 3-4! pats have played a lot of 4-3 lately. Pierre woods stinks in the 4-3. He's more of a 3-4 guy. Junior can play both but if Mayo is healthy and we are at full strength, I really do not see how we can give them both enough reps. Junior is not coming back to ride the bench or the inactive list. That will be quite a linebacker/DL rotation, with Mayo, guyton, thomas, banta-cain, burgess, seau and woods as your primary linebackers! Will alexander or ninovich (?) be cut?   
    Posted by bubbakilla


    It's depth so that Guyton can play where they want him to play on the edge.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 6:57 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    In Response to Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4? : Alexander and Ninkovich are regular special teams contributors - I think at least one of them stays to continue doing that.  I also think that your point about the shortage at LB was dead-on, which is why I think the team will try to keep both around. I'm hoping Galloway works out, but I'm thinking they'd cut him because he won't contribute on special teams if he doesn't make the grade as a receiver.  I think BenJarvis Green-Ellis would be in the hot seat along with Maroney.  Right now the team is keeping 5 runningbacks instead of the usual four.  I forget his name, but the third string tight end behind Watson and Baker might also be considered along with their project offensive lineman du jour. As for 3-4, I'd love to see more of it.  The more looks you can show, the better, but with only 3 pure linebackers it wasn't possible.  I still don't think we'll see much until Mayo gets back - even with four, it would only take one injury to be back at square one.
    Posted by NickC1188


    As much as he has underperformed in our eyes, i think Galloway stays because he at least, from a matchup standpoint, presents the preverbial deep threat that teams must prepare for. 
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 8:12 PM EDT

    could another option be PURE VETERAN LEADERSHIP??? and of course some reps each game?        

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 8:38 PM EDT

    I just worry about what this means about Mayo's recovery progress.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 8:46 PM EDT

    Seau would mean more 3-4, but with him the Pat are not giving up too much. I am pretty sure Seau can play the will or the sam. Any alignment will suffice. I like the way Brandon Mac Gown is crushing people was he pick up after camp cuts ?
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from steve1581. Show steve1581's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 8:46 PM EDT

    Mayo is fine

    back this week or next at the latest
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 9:11 PM EDT

    Definately more 3-4 because Seau is WAY TOO SLOW to be effective as a MLB in a 4-3.  That's why he was in retirement before the Pats picked him up 2 years ago. He's not any quicker now.

    OLB       ILB        ILB        OLB
    Woods   Seau     Guyton   AD-T

    Until Mayo comes back and Seau becomes the 3rd ILB (3-4 sets only).  
     
    OLB          MLB         OLB
    Guyton     Mayo      ADT

    Burgress/TBC as OLB on passing downs in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3 
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 9:48 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    Mayo is fine back this week or next at the latest
    Posted by steve1581


    Sources?  I know Mike Reiss reported that signing Seau meant nothing to the timetable of Mayo's recovery, but I also haven't seen anything implying that Mayo was probable or definite for any upcoming games.  Also, I wouldn't bring him back in the high altitude of Denver - the altitude is bad enough without coupling that with reduced conditioning from being out and I think fatigue would open him up to re-injuring himself.  Just a theory.

    Ideally I'd like Guyton, Mayo, and Thomas on the field along with a combo DE/OLB (TBC, Ninkovich, or Burgess) and/or a nickel back.  Having Seau and Mayo to go along with Guyton, Thomas, Woods, Ninkovich, and Banta-Cain, along with big guys Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork and pass rushers Jarvis Green and Mike Wright gives the team the ability to show a ton of looks.

    4-3 rushing down: Burgess, Wilfork, Sands, and Warren; Guyton, Mayo, and Thomas
    4-3 passing down: Burgess, Wright, Green, TBC; same LB's (usually go to nickel or dime, anyway)
    3-4: Warren, Wilfork, Green/Sands; Woods/TBC/Burgess/Guyton, Seau/Guyton, Mayo, and Thomas (Seau on running downs, Guyton on passing downs)
    3-3-5: Warren, Wilfork, Green/Sands; Guyton, Mayo, Thomas, McGowan
    2-5: Warren, Wilfork; LB combo du jour
    1-5

    you get the point.  Point is that 5 linebackers plus the two combo DE/OLB guys lets Belichick be creative again.  You can't paint with crayons (copyright 2009 NickC1188)
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 10:05 PM EDT

    For those who thought we only have 3 LBs (assuming you are meaning only those who can both deliver run and pass responsibilities):
    1. Thomas
    2. Mayo
    3. Guyton
    4. Seau

    As for Woods - saying he wouldn't make another NFL team is totally absurd. But he is somewhat limited. He can set the edge OK. TB Cain is limited. He cnnot set the edge but his pass rush is decent (not frightening but not bad).

    Ninkovich is a rookie and has a long way to go but he has shown he can be physical and set the edge with some strength in preseason. A work in progress, not someone to rely on at this stage of his career.

    McGown is playing safety very well but his role seem sa bit like Tank's role before he was cut. That is he is sometimes a safety/LB hybrid and he looks good at it. He allows them to be light with only a 2 LB set at times.

    As for Seau, he is a tremendous player but I think also now a bit limited. I would not expect him on the field in long yardage situations. He could be a good, tough MLB in a 4-3 as well as ILB in a 3-4.

    Burgess and cain are pass rush DEs and it looks ike that is all they should be used for. Cain though has been only fair in this role while Burgess has been a disappointment to date.

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 10:09 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    could another option be PURE VETERAN LEADERSHIP??? and of course some reps each game?        
    Posted by auchhhhhhhhhhh


     i think this is it. no way seau starts. he is there for leadership and depth, thats it. he will take over those few plays a game that alexander is in with the regular defense, and thank god because alexander is awful. i think either ninkovitch or that third TE (forgot his name) get cut to make room for seau. they will both probably be around if we needed them back later in the season. kind of like a hank poteat type thing. although personally i would rather see galloway go away.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 10:10 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4? : Sources?  I know Mike Reiss reported that signing Seau meant nothing to the timetable of Mayo's recovery, but I also haven't seen anything implying that Mayo was probable or definite for any upcoming games.  Also, I wouldn't bring him back in the high altitude of Denver - the altitude is bad enough without coupling that with reduced conditioning from being out and I think fatigue would open him up to re-injuring himself.  Just a theory. Ideally I'd like Guyton, Mayo, and Thomas on the field along with a combo DE/OLB (TBC, Ninkovich, or Burgess) and/or a nickel back.  Having Seau and Mayo to go along with Guyton, Thomas, Woods, Ninkovich, and Banta-Cain, along with big guys Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork and pass rushers Jarvis Green and Mike Wright gives the team the ability to show a ton of looks. 4-3 rushing down: Burgess, Wilfork, Sands, and Warren; Guyton, Mayo, and Thomas 4-3 passing down: Burgess, Wright, Green, TBC; same LB's (usually go to nickel or dime, anyway) 3-4: Warren, Wilfork, Green/Sands; Woods/TBC/Burgess/Guyton, Seau/Guyton, Mayo, and Thomas (Seau on running downs, Guyton on passing downs) 3-3-5: Warren, Wilfork, Green/Sands; Guyton, Mayo, Thomas, McGowan 2-5: Warren, Wilfork; LB combo du jour 1-5 you get the point.  Point is that 5 linebackers plus the two combo DE/OLB guys lets Belichick be creative again.  You can't paint with crayons (copyright 2009 NickC1188)
    Posted by NickC1188


    Burgess on running downs!? Absolutely not. The ends would be Warren and Green. Burgess is an end, not a LB. ANd even if you wanted to try him there he is not the right guy. Thomas, Woods and Guyton all fit the OLB bill better. Ninkovich in running downs may be better too! But he is not going to be there as he is too far down in the depth charts. On the inside you have Mayo, Seau and Guyton... and Thomas if need be. No Burgess and no Banta Cain in defenses designed to stop the run first. Otherwise, yes, lots of flexibility. Especially when you add McGown as a safety/LB in sets that give you more speed and pass coverage capability.
     

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    Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?

    posted at 10/6/2009 10:21 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4?:
    In Response to Re: Seau means less Pierre Woods or more 3-4? :  i think this is it. no way seau starts. he is there for leadership and depth, thats it. he will take over those few plays a game that alexander is in with the regular defense, and thank god because alexander is awful. i think either ninkovitch or that third TE (forgot his name) get cut to make room for seau. they will both probably be around if we needed them back later in the season. kind of like a hank poteat type thing. although personally i would rather see galloway go away.
    Posted by artielang


    "Starting" is a meaningless term in this NE defensive scheme. They have [ackages manned mostly by a variety of different players. SO Seau won't "start". Meaningless. He Will have a role or roles like almost everyone else.

    Most of the DL have roles: Burgess and Banta Cain are rush DEs. Warren and Green are in sets playing it more straight or run defense oriented. Wilfork is NT in 3/4 and DT in 4/3 though he needs spelling to keep him fresh. Wright is a 4/3 tackle with less of a role in a 3/4 though we know he has played NT in past years. Mayo and Thomas are perhaps the only LBs who generally do not come off the field. The others have roles. In the secondary you have at least three role positions that include the 5th and 6th DBs as well as the role McGown plays as a Safety/linebacker with emphasis on safety.