Secondary...could it be coaching?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Secondary...could it be coaching?

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
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    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
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    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:
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    It is not the coaching.  The players that Patriots released have done nothing for other teams,  most aren't even in the league.

     

    Terrence Wheathley - 2nd round pick!  Did he even make ONE play for the Pats?


    Wilhite?

    Butler?

    Meriweather? 

    Chung?

    McCourty?

    Arrington?

    Deltha O'Neal?

    Shawn Springs?

     

     

    Where is the talent on the secondary the past few years?  What we have back there is absolute garbage and the whole league knows it. Thats why a rookie was launching deep bombs all day on sunday!

     

    Do you realize we had  Nate Ebner and Tavon Wilson as the Safeties with the game on the line. Think about that for a second.  This is the same Nate Ebner who doesn't have alot of experience playing this position, even at high school or college level!
     As for Wilson , he was projected to be a 7th round pick or to go undrafted, but BB took him in the 2nd. People who saw him play in Illionois have all said he isn't a coverage safety and was burned all year long.


    Really? Is this the best BB can do,  Ebner and Wilson?  With the game on the line? Let that sink in for a minute.

     

    Belichick knows the secondary is pathetic and therefore plays the most vanilla defense in the NFL.  No corner blitzes, no safety blitzes, no exotic linebacker blitzes.   I heard the secondary has given up the most pass plays of 20 yards in the NFL by far.  


    You can't play defense with a garbage secondary like that. It has become absolutely laughable to watch  week  in and week out.  It is absolutely mind boggling that the "defensive genius  Bill Belichick" cannot find  ONE decent cornerback or Safety since 2005! 7 years and dozens of draft picks,  and not one decent playmaker. Can it get any worse than this?


    The last decent player in the secondary the Pats selected was James Sanders and BB released him. 


    I mentioned in the other thread that we might as well put Mickey Mouse in charge of drafting Safeties and CB's.  Chances of finding a decent player cannot be worse than they are if BB and his coaches are picking.

     

     Actually Wheatley made some nice plays against the clots until he broke his wrist for the 4th time.  I agree with everything you said but have had a minute to calm down,  intead of being angry at the D.  (which I have been for years now and have no problem voicing that).

    This actually occured to me 3 yrs ago when I was actually defending the D but I don't believe I ever voiced it.  Maybe now is a good time.

    I think the problem starts in the draft. Not that the Pats are bad drafters but they consistantly pic late.  Every year people scratch their heads at some picks because they are not picking the players they want (the Beasts)

    The Pats pick to fit their scheme which apparently is a difficult one.  There's really no sure way to pick players because they have to anticipate them fitting their scheme. 

    There are very few players who have the brains, versility and athletic ability that every one covets especially late in the rounds.  So knowing that their scheme is difficult and that every one with all three traits are already gone, they have to  say, ok, which trait is most important. They choose brains first and versatility second and beastiality last.  They need the brains to suceed and the versatility to play different positions (special teams)  and alot of times the quys that are left have the athletic ability but none of those other traits.

    You can't teach brains and you either have the ability to be versital or not and they have the coaches to bring out the talent and make the most of their athletic ability. 

    I think this is sound under the circumstance but the problem is that this takes time.  Players like Rodney didn't start out being great but he had the ability to adapt and that is what the problem is IMO.

    I think a lot of what is happening is you got some guys that are smart and versital  and have some atletic ability, but are used to a completely different way of doing things and are having to think too much and are getting discouraged when they fail.     In other words, it's mental.  Once you get in that situation, it takes a lot to get out of it and it may actually ruin you for life.  By the time this has happened, they are either mentally strong or not. If they give up, the coaches really have no other choice but to give up too and I think this is a big reason we see a lot of potentially good players fall off cliffs, never to be seen again.

    Are they asking too much of these guys?  IDK , but the hardest thing to evaluate is mental toughness,  You never know until you get there.  Just ask Tom Brady.

    BTW< this in no way  is making an excuse for the state of the D, but I can see why it's happened.  Now Change it Bill!!!  LOL 

     

     

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    Pezz...thanks for the post. I agree with most of it. The point I don't completely agree with is the reason around our poor draft selectionS. sure we have a better chance of succeeding if we pick earlier. However, as I said in last post, trader bill can trade in both directions. He himself decided time and time again to trade down. He could have packaged and moved up as well and did not. Talent was therE within decent trading range and we didn't do it. 

    Secondly, there were many productive secondary players that other teams drafted after our draft selection. Example, wetake Chung , the bills take jarius Byrd 1 pick later. There are many more examples like this. Meaning we could have taken better players than we did when we picked. This tells me there is an evaluation issue. Both of my above points compound this issue of a secondary not producing. 

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    Ya, I get that too but I don't think any ones system is fool proof.    Maybe chung rated higher in all catagories to them or slightly higher in smarts which has a higher weight,.  Maybe others place a higher priority on athletic ability than they do over smarts or versatility.  You always see BB pick the smart, versatile type over talent or atleticism.
    Don't know what's stopped him in the past ( my guess is he wasn't seeing any one with enough of all the traits and thus safe to wait on). but give him credit for trading up and getting a few guys he felt worthy, this year.  Still, it will take some time for them to become pros.

    Hope they can hang cuz they sure do need the help.  GET IT FIXED BB!

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Secondary...could it be coaching?

    It is coaching.

     

    The best way to improve DB performance is to have a pass rush.

    BB refuses to blitz.  No passs rush at all, because the coach plays soft zone and refuses to blitz.

    One of teh greatest coaches in NFL history - but it is all over for BB.  Like Chuck Noll all over again.  Chuck hung on for 12 (TWELVE!!) years after they won their last super bowl.

    In 2013 - the team will need a new coach.  This is the swan song for BB - hope he does well. 

     

     

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Secondary...could it be coaching?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It is coaching.

     

    The best way to improve DB performance is to have a pass rush.

    BB refuses to blitz.  No passs rush at all, because the coach plays soft zone and refuses to blitz.

    One of teh greatest coaches in NFL history - but it is all over for BB.  Like Chuck Noll all over again.  Chuck hung on for 12 (TWELVE!!) years after they won their last super bowl.

    In 2013 - the team will need a new coach.  This is the swan song for BB - hope he does well. 

     

     

     

     

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    When you say "blitz", I assume you mean rush more than the front 4 line man? Correct? If Hightower, Mayo and Spikes are the LB's, none of them has an above average ability to rush the qb.

    All 3 of them also average to below average in pass coverage, using a S to help cover the middle of the field, leaving the CB's exposed with no back side help 

    I liked Hightower in the draft, but felt there were more pressing needs on the OL and defensive back field.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Secondary...could it be coaching?

    I feel like the problem goes further than the coaching. They definitely have a problem in the evaluation of DBs & drafting the right ones. With that being said, there is no way that in 5-6 years we couldn't hit on at least 1 or 2 solid DBs. That I feel can be blamed on coaching.

    Let's face the facts, what they are currently doing is no getting it done. So in order to succeed, changes are a must. I always say start at the root of the problem. Start by holding our scouts & draft people accountable. If they can't get the job done, then find someone who can. Hell, even a blind squirrel finds an occasional nut!!

    Then, you absolutely have to put some blame on the coaching as well. Neither of the DB backs coaches have any NFL experience. How can they possibly coach these young kids up when they have never been there? I hate Felger like nobody's business, but he's spot on about these DB coaches being a complete joke. Get people who have real time NFL experience. I'd bet the farm our secondary would be better with better coaching.

    One last piece of the blame pie needs to go to the defensive play calling. They don't blitz enough...period. They continue to prove that if given time, any average QB will carve you up. This has been (somewhat) addressed with Jones...but you need more than one guy putting pressure on the QB. They need to take a lesson from the Giants on this one.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Secondary...could it be coaching?

    In response to patsfan76's comment:
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    HIghtower def. Can Blitz Rkarp, but not from the tub. Did u see him absolutely run the Rb over on his way to the Qb when he pulled his hammy. He is the best blitzer for passing downs and Spikes is the best run Blitzer and Mayo is just the brains and the tackling machine

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    I am not saying that Hightower cannot run over a RB. I am saying he doesnt have the speed nor the rush moves to be a blitz LB. Non of the Pats LB's do, with the exceptions being Nink and Jones, who are currently the starting DE's.

    Wasnt FA signee TScott supposed to be some one who could get after the QB? I dont think I have heard his name once this year.

    I think that Jones, Nink, Vince and Cunningham can get enough push to keep an o line busy, that the Pats could bring Arrington or Chung or one of the LB's every now and then. I just dont think they have the personel to be a blitzing team.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Secondary...could it be coaching?

    Something has to be missing given the problems continue week in and week out.  Light bulb not coming on in the player?

     
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