Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

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    Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

         Gag me with a spoon!! The choice of the 1976 Oakland Raiders as the greatest team in NFL history is a complete joke!  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827fc2d9/article/1976-raiders-edge-2000-ravens-for-title-of-greatest-team-ever

         To refresh your recollection, these are the same '76 Raiders who edged the New England Patriots in Oakland, 24-21, in the AFC play-offs that year...thanks to that bogus roughing the passer call on Sugar Bear Ray Hamilton, by that goofball official, Ben Dreith: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976%E2%80%9377_NFL_playoffs#AFC:_Oakland_Raiders_24.2C_New_England_Patriots_21; and http://www.patsfans.com/articles/patriots/2794/Patriots-Raiders-Bring-Dueling-Grudges-To-Table.html 

         Make no mistake about it...but for that BS call by Dreith, the Raiders would have lost at home to the '76 Patriots...and the Pats likely would have gone on to win their first SB, long before Tom Brady and BB stepped foot on the frozen tundra of Foxboro, Massachusetts.

         Incidently, the same 1976 Patriots had handed the '76 Raiders their only loss of that season, thrashing them, 48-17, in Foxboro. 

         Choosing that team, who, but for a biased/bogus call by a goofball official, would not even be in the discussion for such an honor, is ridiculous. So...let's do our own poll, as to which is the greatest NFL team of all-time. Each of the chosen teams below won a championship: 
       
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    The 85 Bears crushed teams. There isn't any team better IMHO then they were. And if we had won in 2007 then I would have took us over the bears.
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    Why Phins greatest season ever? If you look at their opponents that year they faced the weakest opponents of any SB winning team. Not to mention the Pats put up more wins before finally losing in a longer season.

    But if you are talking greatest single season I would have to give it to the 85' bears. For that 1 year they were dominant, much more so then the Phins were
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    I'd honestly take the 04 Pats over most other teams. That team was dominant.

    As a side note:

    '76 Raiders best team ever?
    Eli best QB coming into 2012?

    Someone's f u c k i n g with NFL fans, but I'm on to you.
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]Why Phins greatest season ever? If you look at their opponents that year they faced the weakest opponents of any SB winning team. Not to mention the Pats put up more wins before finally losing in a longer season. But if you are talking greatest single season I would have to give it to the 85' bears. For that 1 year they were dominant, much more so then the Phins were
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

         Nonetheless, they went undefeated in the regular season, and 3-0 against top quality opposition in the play-offs. It's also important to remember that they went 14-0 with a back-up QB, 38 year old Earl Morrall...after starter Bob Griese went down in week 5 of the season, with a broken ankle:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Miami_Dolphins_season

         The 'Fins also lost in the SB the year before to Dallas, and were repeat champs in 1973, after going 12-2 in the regular season. They lost at Oakland in the play-offs in 1974 on the last play of the famous "Sea of Hands" game:
  8. The Sea of Hands (December 21, 1974, Miami Dolphins vs. Oakland Raiders, AFC Divisional Playoff Game)
    With 24 seconds left in the game, Raiders RB Clarence Davis somehow caught the game-winning touchdown pass among "the sea of hands" of three Dolphins defenders. This game eliminated Miami from the playoffs after they had made it to the Super Bowl in each of the last 3 seasons. Also known as the "Lost Game" due to both NBC and NFL Films losing their English copies of the broadcast. It was thought until recently that the only remaining copy was NBC's Spanish version, when NFL Films found their copy buried deep in storage, which they thought was lost in a move in the early 80's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Hands#1970s 
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    why wasn't the 2007 patriots team listed?
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    TexasPat...The 1972 Miami Dolphins shouldn't even make the list of The Top 20 NFL Teams of All-Time...they are unquestionably, THAT overrated.  They squeeked out win after win against a collection of teams with a W-L record, just about at the .400 winning percentage mark...in a 12 game season...during very much a downslope in the course of The NFL.  They were sh#t...  The 2012 Indianapolis Colts would've beat Mercury Morris to death before ritualistically cannabilizing the rest of the team, and making it back home before halftime.  

    No...this has nothing whatsoever to do with a Pats Fan's 2007 sour grapes...put NE on, keep 'em off- doesn't matter 1 bit to me.  The 1972 Miami Dolphins might just be the most overrated team EVER in the History of EVERY SINGLE one of ALL the Major Sports.  They actually NEED to pop champagne every year that the last NFL team to get A Loss, loses...If not to celebrate, more to keep the alcohol fueled blinders on regarding how good they were. 
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke : however Laz they are still, since the merger in 1970, the only team with a 0 in the loss column at the end of the season I agree 07 Pats should be high on the list
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

         The 2007 Pats were a great team. But, because they didn't win a championship, they're not in this conversation.
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    It is
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]TexasPat...The 1972 Miami Dolphins shouldn't even make the list of The Top 20 NFL Teams of All-Time...they are unquestionably, THAT overrated.  They squeeked out win after win against a collection of teams with a W-L record, just about at the .400 winning percentage mark...in a 12 game season...during very much a downslope in the course of The NFL.  They were sh#t...  The 2012 Indianapolis Colts would've beat Mercury Morris to death before ritualistically cannabilizing the rest of the team, and making it back home before halftime.   No...this has nothing whatsoever to do with a Pats Fan's 2007 sour grapes...put NE on, keep 'em off- doesn't matter 1 bit to me.  The 1972 Miami Dolphins might just be the most overrated team EVER in the History of EVERY SINGLE one of ALL the Major Sports.  They actually NEED to pop champagne every year that the last NFL team to get A Loss, loses...If not to celebrate, more to keep the alcohol fueled blinders on regarding how good they were. 
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

         You're way off base here, Laz. The 1972 'Fins not only should be on the list, but they should receive strong consideration as the NFL's all-time best team. Certainly, they were better than the 1976 Raiders. Need proof? Check this out:

    1.) 1970: The Dolphins finished 10-4, before losing to the Raiders in the play-offs to Oakland, 21-14;

    2.) 1971: The 'Fins finished at 10-3-1, winning the AFC East. In the play-offs, they beat the K.C. Chiefs in Kansas City, in a classic OT game, 27-24; beat the Baltimore Colts in the AFL title game, 21-0...before losing in the SB to Dallas, 24-3;

    3.) 1972: A 14-0 record speaks for itself, regardless of the competition. This is especially true when the majority of it gets done with a 38 year old back-up QB. In the play-offs, they beat the Cleveland Browns, 20-14; beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh to win the Conference title, 21-17; and beat the Redskins in the SB, 14-7;

    4.) 1973: The 'Fins finished at 12-2, to win the AFC East. In the play-offs, they beat the Cincinnati Bengals, 34-16; beat the Raiders, 27-10, in the Conference title game, and crushed the Minnesota Vikings in the SB, 24-7;

    5.) 1974: Miami finished 11-3 to win the AFC East again. In the play-offs, they lost to the Raiders in Oakland, 28-26, on a due or die, 4th and goal play from the Miami 5 yard line, with just 24 seconds left to play;

    6.) 1975: The 'Fins finished 10-4, finishing second in the AFC East.
     
    7.) 1976: Had an off year, finishing just 6-8;

    8.) 1977: Bounced back with a 10-4 record, losing a tie breaker with the 10-4 Baltimore Colts for the division title;

    9.) 1978: Finished 11-5, winning the AFC East, before losing to the Houston Oilers in the wildcard round, 17-9;

    10.) 1979: Finished 10-6 to win the AFC East, before losing to the Steelers in Pittsburgh, 10-7, in the play-offs.      

         That's quite a decade of sustained excellence...almost as good as the one the Pats' just had.
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]Tex I remember that overtime game with KC well, one of the best games I have EVER seen. Ed Podolak, was crazy in that game. By the way that KC Cheifs team was dynamic, probably the best underated middle-linebackers, never to get written about, Willie Lanier. THat was a good team. Probably they were one of the most phyiscal teams I ever seen, they were mean. People forget that after the Jets won the 1st AFL Superbowl in 68, the Chiefs won it the next year, that when people took notice of the AFL. I would put that team against the Bears, as far as physical. Raiders vs. Chiefs were bloodbaths.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

         Yes...the Chiefs v. Raiders was the best rivalry in the AFL in the late 60s, and early 70s. Remember the game where Raiders' DE Ben Davidson intentionally speared a prone Lenny Dawson? Can you imagine the implications if something like that happened today? LOL!!!  
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]I looked at all your teams again and I want to see HOF's. The Steelers were amazing. They had it all, Defense, Offense, Special Teams and Coach. Dynasty. How many Hall of Famers on that team, compared to the Bears?
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

         The Steelers had Franco Harris, Terry Bradshaw, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Mike Webster, Mean Joe Greene, Mel Blount, Jack Lambert, and Jack Ham. (9)

         Bears had Richard Dent, Dan Hampton, Walter Payton, and Mike Singletary. (4)

         Packers had Bart Starr, Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Forrest Gregg, Jim Ringo, Willie Davis, Herb Adderly, Ray Nitschke, and Willie Wood. (9)  
    http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.aspx
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    There should be at least 1- And maybe at most, a total number of posters not any greater than- 1, who "should" (although, considering he didn't vote the same as me, perhaps the acceptance total is just under the number "1")- actually like the final pick I made for The Greatest Team Ever...

    O.k., I'll give ya a hint...
    His favorite team is NOT The New England Patriots-

    Nothing?
    Alright, It's NOT steelcurtain-

    Still...?  Sheez...o.k., well-
    He's actually posted a response on this very thread-

    Boy-oh-boy, You guys freak!n' svck at this, whatever; Fine, how's about:
    His name rhymes with "LintPan"...


    After them at #1, I'm doin':
    #2. 1985 Bears
    #3. 2004 Patriots <I actually worked over, again and again dropping NE, just when overconsidering my own "fandom", but I just can't upon weighing Team Cap, Roster Limits, Substance & Steroid Testing, Free Agency, Revenue Sharing...sheez, just ended messin' me up even more, wonderin' IF I should dar regard them better than the '85 Bears and their quickly countered 46 Defense and their Jim McMahon fueled offensive juggernaut>
    #4. 1989 49'ers <Wanted to put them ahead of NE actually...But I really DO think verses Chicago's '85 team and especially #1's Defensive Team they had, those fellas coulda gave this 49'er squad fits...but I just can't say the same thing about #1 and #2, against the far more balanced on both sides of the ball and extremely versatile 2004 Pats>.
    #5. 1978 Steelers <getting the nod over the '76 Raiders- Just about as intimidating & brutal...but more of an Offensive threat than Oakland appeared to be>.
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke : I myself think the 1984 S 49ers were the best ones..true no Rice but 18-1 and destroyed Miami in the SB 38-16...Montana shredded the D and we all know how great that O was but the SF D was ranked #2 that year and had guys like kevin Fagan and Pierce Holt and Bubba Paris and they just dismantled the high-flying offense of Marino and the Marks Brothers...to me the 84 49ers might just be the best one ever...were they even on this list? I think the 86 Gmen who went 17-2 and beat SF 49-3, Washington 17-0 and Denver 39-20 in the SB...that's 105-23 and they had Simms and Bavaro and that D had LT, Harry Carson, Carl Banks...helluva team, bit overlooked overall though I have to go 1972 Dolphins out of respect for the only undefeated team ever...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

         I like the '72 Dolphins, '04 Patriots, Packers, 49ers and Steeler teams because they were great teams not only for a year, but for a decade. Giants were similar to the '85 Bears. They had a great year, but fell off a bit thereafter. Five years passed betweem SBs in '86 and '91.

         With all apologies to Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor and Jim Brown were both better players.  
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    So what criteria are we actually going by right now...?  Best team ever?  OR- Best Dynasty ever?  OR- Best Team ever, that was close to being a dynasty, but actually wasn't a dynasty?  OR...???

    Here's The '72 Fins...
    No, HERE is THE Greatest Team EVER's Undefeated Record that came in a time with: An EXTREMELY Top-Heavy Sport- Because there was: No Free Agency, No Roster Limits, No Revenue Sharing, No Regulations for targeting, then contacting, then actually making bona fide 1 on 1 plans with the best players coming into the pros, to sign with their professional team while said player was still playing in college (Shula got nailed for this stuff later btw), No Performance Enhancing Substances OR Steroid Testing, NO Limitation whatsoever for each franchise's Total Salary Cap...IN and during a specific time era which was a VERY recognizable downslope for the Pro Football Game (Fan Interest, Fan Following; In the Number of skilled and absolutelyly-dedicated-to-become-pro-ball-players depth of Pro Prospects, etc), And finally- Surviving a schedule with ZERO regards to Strength of Schedule based on previous year's standings, and an even WEAKER quality of play and schedule because each team's schedule was 2 Games Less 12.5% less (14 verses 16)...

    Here's how THE Greatest Team EVER performed:

    Kansas City <8W-6L, 2nd in their Division /> 20-10 Score
    Houston Oilers <1W-13L, 4th & Last Place in Division /> 34-13 Score
    Minnesotta <7W-7L, 3rd & 2nd to last in their Division /> 16-14 Score
    New York Jets <7W-7L, Enough for 2nd in Division /> 27-17 Score
    San Diego Chargers <4W-9L, 4th & Last Place in Division /> 24-10 Score
    Buffalo Bills <4W-9L-1T, 4th and 2nd to last in Division /> 24-23 Score 
    Baltimore Colts <5W-9L, 3rd out of 5 in their Division /> 23-0 Score
    Buffalo Bills <4W-9L-1T, 4th and 2nd to last Division /> 30-16 Score
    NE Patriots <3W-11L, 5th and Last Place in their Division /> 52-0 Score
    New York Jets <7W-7L, Enough for 2nd in their Division /> 28-24 Score
    SL Cardinals <4W-9L-1T, 4th and 2nd to last in Division /> 31-10 Score
    NE Patriots <3W-11L, 5th and Last Place in their Division /> 37-21 Score
    NY Giants <8W-6L, 3rd out of 5 in their Division /> 23-13 Score
    Baltimore Colts <5W-9L, 3rd out of 5 in their Division /> 16-0 Score

    PostSeason
    Cleveland Browns <10W-4L, 2nd in their Division /> 20-14 Score
    Pittsburgh Steelers <11W-3L, 1st in their Division /> 21-17 Score
    Washington Redskins <11W-3L, 1st in their Division /> 14-7 Score


    There ya go=That's the year for A#1 Uncontested VERY Best Team that EVER played in The NFL.


    EVERY-thing from up above, PLUS:
    3 Postseason Games all won by 1 possession
    14 regular season Games playing a grand total of 2 Teams with an actual winning record, both opponents with 1 win above being .500.

    ...and no, "'72 'Fins were THE Greatest" Fans- Sorry, ya can't have it both ways.  You can't simulataneously claim that all these larger league-wide factors working towards just a tiny few top-tier teams offered by the points from up above, along with all the incidentals of scheduling and NFL team parity as it relates to Miami's 1972 specific season, WERE, in fact, beyond Miami's Control...WHILE Simultaneously and in the very same breath, claim that the 1972 Miami Dolphins were the single greatest team to ever play in The NFL.  

    Sorry...

    Here's NY's 1986-1987 season:

    http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-giants/results/1986

    That...PLUS, in a time with those dozen or so additional factors weighted towards complete league parity.
    ...Just tell me the Combined W-L Record of the opponents they faced.
    ...Tell me how NY did in the playoffs that year
    ...Tell me how they fared against competing in a league with Chicago on the heals of The Bears 85 SB Team (and how Chicago did this, the next year), OR How NY fared verses yet another team recognized as being in the running for being dubbed the greatest as well, in a 1986-7 year square in the middle of their Dynasty (San Fran).  Verses Washington, yet another team that within a year or 2, were SB Champions.  Verses Denver...Verses Dallas, 2 More teams, just beginning their runs at winning, and/or "just" heading to their 3X Each & very own runs of playing in Superbowls.


    It's not even close.  
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke : all fodder for forums and bar stools but pointless in the end-comparing eras will never be provable nor able to be played out in real life...I hear ur points Laz but every team has dealt with the same things as every other team in it's era and only the 72 Fins went undefeated... TP like Laz says what's the criteria? To me it's not multiple years or sustained excellence it's a one year question, always was, as in when people cite the '27 Yankees...team means the team as constituted that year,  not before or after, and you match them up accordingly ie: 85 Bears vs 72 Dolphins, etc...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

         Do you think that the '86 Giants were the greatest team ever? Why? What's your criteria?
     
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    Re: Selection of '76 Raiders as Greatest Team Ever a Joke

    Tex, you mention the infamous "roughing the passer" penalty called on a clearly legal hit. But you didn't mention the non call on the Patriots previous possession. On third and short Grogan threw a short flat to the right to Russ Francis. Raider LB Phil Vilapiano was covering. Vilapioano was behind Francis. The ball came to Francis but well before it got there Vilapioano pinned Francis' arms from behind preventing a catch even being possible. It was flagrant but not called.

    I have heard that years later Vilapiano was in Hawaii and Russ Francis took him up for some sightseeing in an airplane. Francis started to do some aireal acrobatics which Vilapiano had no stomach for. Francis was able to get a confession out of Vilapiano - an admission that he had pinned his arms and so committed pass interference. While the confession was coerced it is interesting that Francis remained incensed about it many years later and that Vilapiano did cop to it.

    So no, the '76 Raiders were FAR from the best team ever. They were not even the best team that year. And by the way, the thrashing the Pats gave the Raiders that year in Foxboro was no fluke. They physically mauled some of the best teams in the league. They had a close game with the Steelers but won because they were MORE physical than the Steelers!

    I would agree with Tex that the Packers, the Steelers and the 49ers all could be given shots as their teams were superior for most of a decade and you could take what year you thought was their best. I would not go with the Dolphins. They were good outside of the 2 SB years but not great. And I thought they were lucky to have to play the Redskins in their 14-0 year. Redskins coach George Allen was all about D and had no real appreciation for offense or a good QB. He had an aging Jurgensen on the bench who was hugely better than the all but ineffective Billy Kilmer who was more of a Tebow type QB. If you ever get a chance to watch a replay of that SB you will cringe at the ineptness of the Redskins O - and not simply due to the Dolphins solid D. Kilmer was that bad and their was no offensive mind on the team outside of Jurgensen who was banished to the sidelines long before by Allen.

    I would go first with GB. The reason: as good a D as the league had with excellent players in the line, at LB and in the secondary; as good an O as the league had with a truly great HOF QB (a bit of a Tom Brady of his day) in Bart Starr who was perhaps the most accurate QB of his era and on par with Joe Montana, an exceptional O line, exceptional RBs and solid receivers. As good a coach as any in any era and a team that refused to lose a big game. Even the one championship game they lost - in 1960 v the Eagles: the first one the Lombardi Packers played in - they were driving and Jim Taylor was tackled inside the 10 as the clock ran out.
     
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