Serious discussion on how to fill holes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    Regardless of how you feel about the system we are almost a full 24hrs into FA and many players are currently gone. Given the list of needs I think we can all agree on below how do you feel the Pats will address them and with whom. One thing to note is during a very good draft a team might come away with 2 players who start during the year and 2 players who are productive backups. So, draft is not the end solution to fill all the holes but if you want to assume the Pats have a very good draft you can assume 2 starting holes and 2 depth holes will be filled through the draft. I will add my idea's in italics below the positions:

    #1/2 TE - With Gronk oft injured we can all agree this is a need

    I think they get one in the draft 2nd round


    Starting caliber DT - With Kelly and Wilfork coming off major injury DT is a pressing need

    Use the 1st round pick on a DT early


    #1 WR - we didn't have one last year and certainly are worse off if Edelman leaves

    This one I have no clue. Maybe Sanders, hopefully no LaBell?


    #1 CB - We lost Talib and it's clear this team needs a #1 CB

    Still no clue. Revis is going to be extremely pricey, maybe Finnegan or Browner?


    C - we don't have one

    Ahh who is on the market right now? Maybe bring Wendell back?


    SS - We don't have one other than maybe Harmon

    This one I think Woodyard gets signed, coverted to a SS/ILB hybrid, and gets put in a rotation with Harmon. Woodyard in the box on early downs and on passing downs Harmon comes in

    Depth LB

    Woodyard would add some depth but if he also the SS need one more, maybe through the draft?


    Depth interior OL

    Add through the draft

    Back up 3rd down back - lets face it Vereen is injury prone after all

    No clue

    What are you opinions on how they address some of these holes?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    Really no one? I thought at least one of the people in complete favor of the system would give suggestion on how the team could improve and fill those holes

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    People here keep ripping Denver for their potential future cap issues Which is fair. However that Bronco team was way better then us prior to these signings and now just puttinf more space between us. They are seen as our biggest rival and to be honest I don't think the pats have a snowballs chance in hellll of beating them this year if all the do is add value and draft well. 

    Pripple keep saying they don't want Revis or they don't want the team to make some big splash but if they don't considerably bolster that secondary they are going to get carved again in the playoffs. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In a way it does seem like Brady's final years are being wasted away. 

     

    Such a shame.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    TE - I like to see them bring in Owen Daniels and agree with you about one in the draft...

    DT - agree 100% a major need that needs to be addressed early in the draft

    WR - If Edelman is gone then I would like either Emmanuel Sanders or James Jones.

    CB - we are in spot on agreement with Finnegan and Browner based on certain issues with Browner and Finnegan’s age I think they can both be brought in.

    C- Do not want Wendell back would prefer to move  Connelly back to center and Cannon to Guard. either bring in a vet or a 4/5/6 rounder for depth.

    SS - I say play Harmon and bring in a vet to supplement. I don't think it is a top priority as they are in sub packages the majority of the time so they can scheme around certain situations if they have to.

    LB- Bring in a vet who is also a special teams type player. They have very good starters here but definitely need depth.

    I think most of the depth you are looking for will come later in free agency and closer to the season as cuts are made during the summer.

    Good exercise which when we revisit once the 53 man roster is set won't have any of our suggestions or scenarios.

    I think you and i are pretty close as how we would do things.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    PatsEng, I'll step up and thanks for initiating the thread.

     

    Tight end - agree

    Starting caliber DT - agree


    #1 WR - Sanders is an option to be sure.  Dobson perhaps (yes, I know he's recovering from an injury and was not spectacular last year).  No matter the reason I don't see Amendola filling this role.  Perhaps they go without a #1.

    #1CB - I'll be honest with you, I'm not certain here.  I'll be uncomfortable if the answer is Ryan on one side and Dennard on the other.  Has either Finnegan or Browner been on their radar?  IDK

    C - I don't want Wendell as the answer.  Move Connolly over and replace him or a vet FA C.

    SS - Seriously, I'd like to know if A. Wilson is healthy.  If not, Harmon seems to have potential but how much and how far has he progressed?  Based on what I saw of Woodyard I think he's a potential option here


    Depth LB - probably FA jouneyman or Woodyard

    Depth OL - draft

    back up 3rd down back - lesser FA

     

    Not particularly erudite but I took a shot.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    PatsEng, I'll step up and thanks for initiating the thread.

     

    Tight end - agree

    Starting caliber DT - agree


    #1 WR - Sanders is an option to be sure.  Dobson perhaps (yes, I know he's recovering from an injury and was not spectacular last year).  No matter the reason I don't see Amendola filling this role.  Perhaps they go without a #1.

    #1CB - I'll be honest with you, I'm not certain here.  I'll be uncomfortable if the answer is Ryan on one side and Dennard on the other.  Has either Finnegan or Browner been on their radar?  IDK

    C - I don't want Wendell as the answer.  Move Connolly over and replace him or a vet FA C.

    SS - Seriously, I'd like to know if A. Wilson is healthy.  If not, Harmon seems to have potential but how much and how far has he progressed?  Based on what I saw of Woodyard I think he's a potential option here


    Depth LB - probably FA jouneyman or Woodyard

    Depth OL - draft

    back up 3rd down back - lesser FA

     

    Not particularly erudite but I took a shot.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought I read a tweet from one of the talking heads that said the pats were scheduling a visit with Browner.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    I am a big fan of Melton. He's coming off a knee injury so perhaps he's in our wheelhouse.

    I put Will Smith in the same catagory as Melton. Knee injury so perhaps affordable.

    And I believe both can contribute when called upon.

    Former Miami Safety Clemons is a tough player and again affordable.

     

    This would help the D.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Regardless of how you feel about the system we are almost a full 24hrs into FA and many players are currently gone. Given the list of needs I think we can all agree on below how do you feel the Pats will address them and with whom. One thing to note is during a very good draft a team might come away with 2 players who start during the year and 2 players who are productive backups. So, draft is not the end solution to fill all the holes but if you want to assume the Pats have a very good draft you can assume 2 starting holes and 2 depth holes will be filled through the draft. I will add my idea's in italics below the positions:

    #1/2 TE - With Gronk oft injured we can all agree this is a need

    I think they get one in the draft 2nd round

    Starting caliber DT - With Kelly and Wilfork coming off major injury DT is a pressing need

    Use the 1st round pick on a DT early


    #1 WR - we didn't have one last year and certainly are worse off if Edelman leaves

    This one I have no clue. Maybe Sanders, hopefully no LaBell?


    #1 CB - We lost Talib and it's clear this team needs a #1 CB

    Still no clue. Revis is going to be extremely pricey, maybe Finnegan or Browner?


    C - we don't have one

    Ahh who is on the market right now? Maybe bring Wendell back?


    SS - We don't have one other than maybe Harmon

    This one I think Woodyard gets signed, coverted to a SS/ILB hybrid, and gets put in a rotation with Harmon. Woodyard in the box on early downs and on passing downs Harmon comes in

    Depth LB

    Woodyard would add some depth but if he also the SS need one more, maybe through the draft?


    Depth interior OL

    Add through the draft

    Back up 3rd down back - lets face it Vereen is injury prone after all

    No clue

    What are you opinions on how they address some of these holes?

    [/QUOTE]

    TE ...depends if they still feature the 2 TE set with regularity. They clearly don't currently have the horses to run it. If they do go this way, yes, I would agree a TE in round 2 / early would make sense. They can still make a play for Scott chandler.

    wr...with Edelman possibly gone, Dobson hurt, they need to do something. I would bring in Lafell as reported and sign both he and sanders. I don't want this creeping up in the post season like last one. I might even make a run at decker and grab he and sanders. Combine those 2 with our current stable, less Edelman, and it looks pretty good.

    cb...veteran talent only please. My preference would be DRC, then finnegan, then browner. It depends on how they feel about Ryan. If Ryan can start outside, finnegan or browner make sense. If not, DRC starts, Ryan gains another year of experience and maybe I play him in the slot or in dime/nickel.

    c...I read the pats invited one in, but, I think we go Wendell 1-2 more years. Draft a C to replace Wendell maybe in round 3-4.

    ss...I like your idea on woodyard. I also think Collins could do what you propose. Both were safeties in a previous life. I roll the dice with mccourty and Harmon, use woodyard and Collins to play safety in the box. If so, I think we need to draft a FS to learn under mccourty. Round 3-4. Any thoughts here? 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In a way it does seem like Brady's final years are being wasted away. 

     

    Such a shame.

    [/QUOTE]


    I know, absolutely horrible to think of him in another uniform but I would rather see him win another ring in SF if it comes down to that. The Patriots are quietly slipping from the elite and the best teams keep getting better.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    Oh I forgot one and a very improtant one really, 3rd DE to spell Nink and Jones while also providing a pass rush. Don't forget to add that one in too.

     

    ATJ, Ghost, and Lifer thanks for your thoughts, in addition on some of the ones you mentioned you don't know as a secondary exercise go through the remaining FA list and with reality in mind which FA's left would you feel is a fit.

    As a 3rd exercise of the options you listed how much do you think what you suggested improves the team from last year and compare it to the 2 biggest threats this year in Den and the Colts

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh I forgot one and a very improtant one really, 3rd DE to spell Nink and Jones while also providing a pass rush. Don't forget to add that one in too.

     

    ATJ, Ghost, and Lifer thanks for your thoughts, in addition on some of the ones you mentioned you don't know as a secondary exercise go through the remaining FA list and with reality in mind which FA's left would you feel is a fit.

    As a 3rd exercise of the options you listed how much do you think what you suggested improves the team from last year and compare it to the 2 biggest threats this year in Den and the Colts

    [/QUOTE]

    Welcome.

    on the DE front...I could see maybe Chris Clemons. He is close to the type bb likes and won't cost much coming off I think an acl tear. Not my preference however. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    People here keep ripping Denver for their potential future cap issues Which is fair. However that Bronco team was way better then us prior to these signings and now just puttinf more space between us. They are seen as our biggest rival and to be honest I don't think the pats have a snowballs chance in hellll of beating them this year if all the do is add value and draft well. 

    Pripple keep saying they don't want Revis or they don't want the team to make some big splash but if they don't considerably bolster that secondary they are going to get carved again in the playoffs. 

    [/QUOTE]

    As of now it will be a slaughter.  Need to make some serious moves.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    As long as we save money, and keep our draft choices, we will be as good as Denver three years from now, when Brady hits his prime at forty years of age.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh I forgot one and a very improtant one really, 3rd DE to spell Nink and Jones while also providing a pass rush. Don't forget to add that one in too.

     

    ATJ, Ghost, and Lifer thanks for your thoughts, in addition on some of the ones you mentioned you don't know as a secondary exercise go through the remaining FA list and with reality in mind which FA's left would you feel is a fit.

    As a 3rd exercise of the options you listed how much do you think what you suggested improves the team from last year and compare it to the 2 biggest threats this year in Den and the Colts

    [/QUOTE]

    Welcome.

    on the DE front...I could see maybe Chris Clemons. He is close to the type bb likes and won't cost much coming off I think an acl tear. Not my preference however. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With that injury and that age why not just keep Kelly? Clemons no spring chicken coming off a major injury on the decline. Not sure how that helps other than being a body

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh I forgot one and a very improtant one really, 3rd DE to spell Nink and Jones while also providing a pass rush. Don't forget to add that one in too.

     

    ATJ, Ghost, and Lifer thanks for your thoughts, in addition on some of the ones you mentioned you don't know as a secondary exercise go through the remaining FA list and with reality in mind which FA's left would you feel is a fit.

    As a 3rd exercise of the options you listed how much do you think what you suggested improves the team from last year and compare it to the 2 biggest threats this year in Den and the Colts

    [/QUOTE]


    I still think they can wait Jared Allen out. I know you said he has wants a certain number but as time goes on i think he will wear down if nobody is willing to pony up.

    Get back to you on the other 2.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    I forgot dt's on my list. I would use round 1 to go get my guy, trading up if I have too.

    assuming the pats get Hegeman or Nix, combined with who they have plus a mid level de to spell nink, I think that is an upgrade on the DL. Assuming they get woodyard and let spikes and fletcher leave, I will label that a push. Assuming they get revis, we are better in the secondary. If not revis, the secondary will be worse off perhaps. so, lots of assumptions, but I think the DL improves, lb corps stays equal and the secondary will dictate if the needle on defense moves up or down. 

    Compared to Denver? I think the Denver defense has at least on paper I,proved dramatically at all 3 levels. They now have 2 excellent pass rushers in miller and ware, their secondary is shored up big time with ward and Talib. Denver hasn't done much offensively and they lost decker. 

    The pats equally need to address WR and TE. It might sound crazy but I would let Edelman walk and then sign decker and sanders. Decker, sanders, amendola, Dobson, Boyce, slater is a decent WR corps, with Gronk, hooman and lets say amaro or maybe the kid from ND as TE. Plenty of weapons theRe. Also, decker, Dobson, Gronk make 3 very good RZ targets. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh I forgot one and a very improtant one really, 3rd DE to spell Nink and Jones while also providing a pass rush. Don't forget to add that one in too.

     

    ATJ, Ghost, and Lifer thanks for your thoughts, in addition on some of the ones you mentioned you don't know as a secondary exercise go through the remaining FA list and with reality in mind which FA's left would you feel is a fit.

    As a 3rd exercise of the options you listed how much do you think what you suggested improves the team from last year and compare it to the 2 biggest threats this year in Den and the Colts

    [/QUOTE]

    Welcome.

    on the DE front...I could see maybe Chris Clemons. He is close to the type bb likes and won't cost much coming off I think an acl tear. Not my preference however. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With that injury and that age why not just keep Kelly? Clemons no spring chicken coming off a major injury on the decline. Not sure how that helps other than being a body

    [/QUOTE]

    Kelly and Clemons are 2 different players. Clemons is more of a true 4-3 de. I don't like it, but its exactly the type of move bb likes to make. think Andre carter, but coming off a torn acl.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh I forgot one and a very improtant one really, 3rd DE to spell Nink and Jones while also providing a pass rush. Don't forget to add that one in too.

     

    ATJ, Ghost, and Lifer thanks for your thoughts, in addition on some of the ones you mentioned you don't know as a secondary exercise go through the remaining FA list and with reality in mind which FA's left would you feel is a fit.

    As a 3rd exercise of the options you listed how much do you think what you suggested improves the team from last year and compare it to the 2 biggest threats this year in Den and the Colts

    [/QUOTE]


    I still think they can wait Jared Allen out. I know you said he has wants a certain number but as time goes on i think he will wear down if nobody is willing to pony up.

    Get back to you on the other 2.

    [/QUOTE]

    If we could add Allen I would be very happy. Would love to see a line of Allen, Hegeman, vw and jones. With mayo, Hightower and Collins behind, followed bt Dennard and revis, mccourty and Harmon. That is a significant ly upgraded defense on all 3 levels. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bustify. Show Bustify's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    At CB, they need to get at least 1 of Revis, Browner, DRC, and Finnegan...the first 3 more than Finnegan.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

     

    I still think they can wait Jared Allen out. I know you said he has wants a certain number but as time goes on i think he will wear down if nobody is willing to pony up.

    Get back to you on the other 2.

     



     

    Jared Allen - DL -  Vikings

    NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports free agent Jared Allen is threatening to retire if no team meets his contract demands.

    As Sporting News' Ross Tucker quipped, "When your leverage is a 'won't play' media leak, it's fair to say your market is very disappointing." Per RapSheet, Allen "wants his market value, his fair salary," and "if he does not get it, Jared Allen is very much at peace." It's possible that threatening to retire will  further sink Allen's market. Rapoport also reported Allen has a "ton of admiration for Barry Sanders," who retired at age 30. Allen turns 32 in April.  

    To me Allen is the type of man who's good to his word. I don't think you can just wait him out  

    http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football  

    Not to mention while you wait for his price to come down good players are coming off the board so if he really does retire what are you really holding on to at that point? That's a massive gamble

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    I still think they can wait Jared Allen out. I know you said he has wants a certain number but as time goes on i think he will wear down if nobody is willing to pony up.

    Get back to you on the other 2.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

     

    Jared Allen - DL -  Vikings

    NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports free agent Jared Allen is threatening to retire if no team meets his contract demands.

    As Sporting News' Ross Tucker quipped, "When your leverage is a 'won't play' media leak, it's fair to say your market is very disappointing." Per RapSheet, Allen "wants his market value, his fair salary," and "if he does not get it, Jared Allen is very much at peace." It's possible that threatening to retire will  further sink Allen's market. Rapoport also reported Allen has a "ton of admiration for Barry Sanders," who retired at age 30. Allen turns 32 in April.  

    To me Allen is the type of man who's good to his word. I don't think you can just wait him out  

    http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football  

    Not to mention while you wait for his price to come down good players are coming off the board so if he really does retire what are you really holding on to at that point? That's a massive gamble

    [/QUOTE]

    What's his price?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    It surprises me that more people aren't seeing a need at starting OLB.

    Last year I predicted the Pats first pick would be an OLB (when the need was even greater).  They could have had Ogletree (the guy I wanted) if they hadn't traded down, but they still took Collins as their first choice.

    So now we have 2 interior lineman coming off injuries (assuming they are on the roster) in VW and Kelly.   Do we really think they can play much 3-4 with either of those 2?

    I still see a pressing need for an OLB starter to work the side opposite Collins.   Maybe not in the first round, but within the first 3 rounds (i.e someone who could reasonably be expected to contribute this season).   Spikes and Hightower are too slow to play outside.   Spikes is probably gone anyway.   Mayo and DH should be inside.  Collins at one outside spot.   Who's on the other side?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    exercise 2

    James Jones - pretty smart lined up in multiple spots over the course of his GB career i think would adapt pretty quickly here.

    Owen Daniels - Another smart kid who will do whatever is asked of him.

    I actually like this kid Shaugnessy... he has the ability to play with his hand in the ground as well as standing up as a LB. BB loves that kind of versatility.

    Finnegan - He is a whack job but he plays his a** off on the fiield a max effort guy.

     

    Those are the guys i have looked at so far.

    Not blowing you off on #3 but until i see the draft and what happens it is difficult to compare and contrast teams. It is obvious that Denver has pushed all their chips into the middle of the table.... that is quite the gamble!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Serious discussion on how to fill holes

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I forgot dt's on my list. I would use round 1 to go get my guy, trading up if I have too.

    assuming the pats get Hegeman or Nix, combined with who they have plus a mid level de to spell nink, I think that is an upgrade on the DL. Assuming they get woodyard and let spikes and fletcher leave, I will label that a push. Assuming they get revis, we are better in the secondary. If not revis, the secondary will be worse off perhaps. so, lots of assumptions, but I think the DL improves, lb corps stays equal and the secondary will dictate if the needle on defense moves up or down. 

    Compared to Denver? I think the Denver defense has at least on paper I,proved dramatically at all 3 levels. They now have 2 excellent pass rushers in miller and ware, their secondary is shored up big time with ward and Talib. Denver hasn't done much offensively and they lost decker. 

    The pats equally need to address WR and TE. It might sound crazy but I would let Edelman walk and then sign decker and sanders. Decker, sanders, amendola, Dobson, Boyce, slater is a decent WR corps, with Gronk, hooman and lets say amaro or maybe the kid from ND as TE. Plenty of weapons theRe. Also, decker, Dobson, Gronk make 3 very good RZ targets. 

    [/QUOTE]

    You sign Decker and Sanders however, will you have money to sign other players you didn't fill with draft picks? Like at CB and SS and C?

     

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