Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]I agree. It goes back to coaching. I saw the Steelers come out and pound the rock against the Jets zones and they did it well. Is Mendenhall better than Woody/Benny? Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    Are you kidding?

    BJGE is a nice back but you'll never see him breaking tackles and running over guys the way Mendenhall does, who has 25 pounds on Ben Jarvis. If BB had a Mendenhall type back, we wouldn't have had to throw the ball all day and we'd be playing in Dallas in two weeks.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

         The sooner you guys give up the ghost, the better off you'll be. The Pats were outplayed, and out-coached. Losses like this happen when a team doesn't respect their opponent. After that 45-3 win, the Pats thought that all they had to do was to show up to win. They learned the hard way that this wasn't so. When a team doesn't execute, or makes mistakes, it can't expect to beat the good teams.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]Spoiled fans, AP.  And they have absolutely no concept of balancing a budget, trying to win now and setting up an infrastructure in the cap era.  They don't get economics/finances, the degree of difficulty in the league or the fact that 1 or 2 plays decide games. The line is so thin, those 1 or 2 plays can make the game for one team over another.  Look at the Crumpler TD drop. He makes that catch and Brady throws that screen away to BJGE, and we very well may not be talking about this. But, we are, because failed execution in a round robin tourney is magnified.  Is it a wonder why these playoffs get such high ratings, the college b-ball tourney does so well and why college football's finish is so anti-climatic? If this was 1987, BB and Brady leading these teams, etc, NE would rarely lose a game. Kraft would have the open checkbook and he'd play the Steinbrenner role of being a lot more liberal with the spending. This isn't Madden video games where there are no repercussions with personnel. Also, keep in mind, the economy has been so bad right up through 2010, many companies are sitting around waiting for the market to settle a little bit, waiting to pounce when they feel it's a good spot to maximize a targeted asset. We are seeing acquisitions from the big boys before they start to spend the  money.   Same concept here from Kraft and it makes sense. The "acquisitions" or chips are the last two drafts and complementary FA moves. Now it's time to spend and make the splashes, but thay can only happen when the CBA gets done.  We'll see who is complaining when the curtain drops on that. We are seeeing some movement in the economy right now, so even though Kraft didn't spend as much as other teams in the uncapped year, make no  mistake, that is smart and good business. Dan Shaugnessy is an idiot, as is anyone who buys into the wild spending theory to use a gimmick or gimmicks to sell.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Very astute post.

    When you think about how close the Pats were to recovering either onside, the 1-or-2 play statemnet holds up.

    However, I still think O'B brainfarts too often.  The game planning and play calling were dumbfounding, just as they have been in the past.  I suspect he is a fine practice coach, not a fine game coach.  I would favor Brady taking the hurry up much more often, too.  In fact, I think any coach who doesn't switch to a hurry-up and clock-stopping offense at any time in the game that they fall behind 10 or more points, he is just playing to lose.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    Of course they were out-coached by the Jets.  Look at how much time O'B wasted on The March of the Snails.  Brady was in the shotgun all the time, just like he was through much of 2009, with similar results.  O'B was calling the wrong play for the situation, over and voer and over.  And I think there is merrit to questioning the wisdom of BB punishing Welker so harshly and publicly, then going back on his punishment by having Welker return a punt when he really needed Welker, then going back to punishing Welker for a little longer. Very meally.

    Meanwhile, the Jets called the pefect D against Brady - smother the receivers and rush with three or four, creating coverage sacks.  This plan always frustrates Brady. it is the only thing that works against him. The Jets dared the Pats to run and tthus took away Brady's passing game.  If O'B was wise, he would have taken that dare sooner and hit them with a Mankins and Green-Ellis combo.  Instead O'B waits until the game is 2/3rds done and runs Woodhead, who was in the middle of a poor-playing streak and three fumbles in less than two games.  Green-Ellis barely played in the game, considering he is their featured back.

    All that adds up to being out-coached.  If you cannot see it...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    I suspect that BB and O'Brien had a serious conversation of some length after the loss to the Jets.  Vivid in my memory is that 4th qtr sideline camera shot of BB yelling into the mic to 'Pass the (^&)(& ball'.  To the general public and the media it was his (BB's) game plan and his decision to play call the way the team did.  That is how BB does things.

    All of that said, I go back to my first post in this thread.  The Pats were beaten by a team that outcoached 'em and outplayed 'em.  Hurts to say it but I believe it to be true. 

    I, for one, am now looking forward to observing how BB handles this year's draft.  A whole lot more enjoyable for me than reliving that &&*(^ $# playoff loss.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    Patsfansince1966 I must respectfully but totally disagree with you.  Ryan's defensive game plan was (and I do not like to say this) brilliant.  His players' execution of it was near flawless.  Two plays did not spell the difference in that game. 

    Simply because BB is perhaps the most brilliant football mind ever (and I believe that he is) doesn't mean that he won't be outcoached on occasion.  He was, in my judgment, on this occasion.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    I don't think the gameplan Ryan whipped up was really brilliant, it was just a lot better than what he did in December.

    I do agree it's annoying to admit Ryan outcoached Bill O'Brien, but he did.

    Leaving Green-Ellis and Gronk/Crump completely away from any commitment to the run (until it was too late and predictable), was hard to watch.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from xBruzer77. Show xBruzer77's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    I trully think that if they did not leave those fourteen points on the field with the first two drives, then we would still be playing today. Those alone would have put the notyets on their collective heals and forced them to start playing catch up.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    At the end of the day, teams will leave points on the board. Good offenses (GB) will turn the ball over and have off days. That is when the defense has to step up.

    Our hasn't done that in the playoffs and that is why the Pats are 0-3 since 2007. Use those first two picks on a DE and OLB, or get a Woodley or Hali in FA. Then this defense could be a playoff caliber one.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from xBruzer77. Show xBruzer77's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]At the end of the day, teams will leave points on the board. Good offenses (GB) will turn the ball over and have off days. That is when the defense has to step up. Our hasn't done that in the playoffs and that is why the Pats are 0-3 since 2007. Use those first two picks on a DE and OLB, or get a Woodley or Hali in FA. Then this defense could be a playoff caliber one.
    Posted by Caesar1177[/QUOTE]

    We definitely have the draft picks to make it happen. On another note, I have to root for Green Bay since I do not want Roethlisberger to have as many rings as Tom. From what I observed yesterday, it looks to be a fairly evenly matched SB.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]So coaching created the sacks? Not. The same coaching you are now critising led them to be 14-2.  Where the Pats also outcoached when they beat the Jests 45-3? The Pats were not outcoached by the Jests. The jests won because of the Harris int. and the Crumpler drop.  Both have NOTHING to do with coaching.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]

    I'm with you on this.  To say the Pats were outcoached or that O'Brien has to go is silly to me.  The play on the field was terrible.  You have a botched fake punt play (should we fire the special teams coach?) and then the defense responds by letting a Jet WR get deep on them (defensive coach flaw here?).  What makes one think that a change in game plan would have changed anything but make matters worse is beyond me.  The offensive gaffs in this game were many and many were at key times.

    We fans knew going into the season that the offense had to carry the defense this year.  The Pats were Indy east this year and that is the problem.  Big season record, one and done in the playoffs.  Not that that is a bad thing because half of us here didn't expect to be in the playoffs at all.  But I do expect this thing to be addressed this year.  The bar gets raised. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    The first two drives that didn't produce points were frustrating, but in some ways it was the next three drives in the first half that lost the game for us.  At least we moved the ball well in those first two drives, with a mix of pass and run (and that nifty reverse). But the next few drives were ugly:
    • Drive three was a three and out, an incomplete pass on first down, a run from shotgun for 5 yards on second down, and a sack on third down with Brady in the shotgun again
    • Drive four was a three and out--a Woodhead run for a loss and two passes out of the shotgun (one complete, one incomplete)
    • Drive five started with some promise (BJGE was back though they were passing to him rather than running), but they went  to shotgun on 2 and 6 and got a 2-yard gain and an incompletion and had to punt
    Too much use of the shotgun right there hurt them.  Too much passing without success.  These Pats need to run more.  Two or three straight-up runs in a row would be nice to see once in a while.  You saw the Steelers in the first half yesterday.  They kept running at the Jets.  That forced the Jets' safeties and LBs to respect the LOS.  They couldn't all drop back into coverage and wait for the pass or the runner on a draw play to come toward them and then just tackle in space. The Steelers forced the D to move toward the LOS.  They put blockers on the LBs.  They got physical.  The Pats let the LBs and safeties run around unblocked and flow toward the play.  It was way too easy for them.  It was a spread-the-field, create open space, finesse kind of offense.  And the Jets were ready for it.  

    Plan B should have been to pound the ball and get physical.  But can we do that?  I think that's maybe why Plan B never materialized.  Maybe our coaches didn't think we had the horses for that.  Maybe they are right?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game : Very astute post. When you think about how close the Pats were to recovering either onside, the 1-or-2 play statemnet holds up. However, I still think O'B brainfarts too often.  The game planning and play calling were dumbfounding, just as they have been in the past.  I suspect he is a fine practice coach, not a fine game coach.  I would favor Brady taking the hurry up much more often, too.  In fact, I think any coach who doesn't switch to a hurry-up and clock-stopping offense at any time in the game that they fall behind 10 or more points, he is just playing to lose.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    I could be wrong but didn't Kraft build the stadium with his own funding and still pays for it today? If so, he has every right to scale back just a bit in terms of spending. Again, I could be wrong here.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game : I could be wrong but didn't Kraft build the stadium with his own funding and still pays for it today? If so, he has every right to scale back just a bit in terms of spending. Again, I could be wrong here.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    That's true, but at this point, shouldn't we "assume" the mortgage is pretty much paid?

    He bought the old stadium for a song, then pumped in a bunch of cash into this new one, and then reeled off 2 more SBs, charging the highest ticket price in the NFL since 2002.

    Also, his $40 to park is silly high, not to mention the corporate sponsorship of the Patriot Place concept is probably offsetting a lot of the overhead for those kinds of expenditures.

    Plus, he didn't try to swindle fans with those PSL things like Al Davis and Woody Johnson have.

    The NE Patriot logo has been an absolute gold mine for the Krafts over the past 8 years.

    In the end, I have no issue with the overall picture.  I think the parking rate is way too high as are the ticket prices, but people pay 'em.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    Whats the matter with "they just laid an egg"?  It happens from time to time, and the fact that it happened in the post season has no bearing on whether it is a valid reason.  Lots of little route adjustment failures, small tweaks, bone head plays.  Come on, we have seen this before, in fact, we saw it this year in Cleveland and in New Jersey.  Not games where we got "outcoached" as much as the other team was in the zone, and we were in the ozone.  Truly, now that the Jests are out of it, I am calm about the whole affair.  We are set for the coming year, and years after.  
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    Please go away, leon troll.  Your little posturing as a Pats fan and trying to bait Pats fans here will not work.

    Christ, you are so obvious.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    Characterize it as 'laid an egg', 'outplayed', 'didn't execute' and discard the 'outcoached' if you like.  My point was and is that the game did not come down to a play here and a play there.  The Jets played better than the Pats and they did so pretty much the whole game. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    In Response to Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game:
    [QUOTE]Characterize it as 'laid an egg', 'outplayed', 'didn't execute' and discard the 'outcoached' if you like.  My point was and is that the game did not come down to a play here and a play there.  The Jets played better than the Pats and they did so pretty much the whole game. 
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    Bingo. It happens. Belichick won't out-coach the other guy every game but his career winning percentage says that he'll do it more often than not.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from james32. Show james32's posts

    Re: Serious question about last Patriots Jets game

    You could tell yesterday the jets defense adjusted at halftime, and stopped the run.That's something I can't remember the Patriot's doing in a long time.If they're getting beat in the first quarter their getting beat in the fourth.
     
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