Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

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    Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    John Czarnecki of FOX Sports was most impressed, giving the Patriots an A.

    “There is no question the Patriots were uncharacteristically deficient on defense last season. Consequently, Bill Belichick decided to fix it and had the ammunition to do it,” Czarnecki wrote. “Give the man credit for stockpiling draft picks.”

     

    Yahoo! Sports’ Jason Cole also handed out an A to the Pats.

    “Belichick went defense, defense, defense and more defense in this draft,” Cole wrote. “He also traded up twice in the first round to nab two terrific athletes to plug into the front seven. [Chandler] Jones is a great pass rusher and [Dont'a] Hightower is versatile enough to play inside linebacker and defensive end (a rarity).

    Three remaining experts — at Sports Illustrated, ESPN and CBSSports.com — weren’t quite as impressed but still all turned in B- grades.

     

    ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. gave the team an A- grade for addressing team needs but a B- overall.

    “Any time you come out of a draft with two players who could be early starters on a good team, you feel pretty good,” Kiper said, referring to first-rounders Chandler Jones and Dont’a Hightower. Kiper called second-rounder Tavon Wilson “one of the bigger reaches” on his board but that seventh-round pick Alfonzo Dennard provided great value.

    “Good work targeting top needs, but the value was pretty average overall, given the big reach on Wilson,” Kiper summarized.

     

    Sports Illustrated’s Chris Burke gave a B- grade to the Pats, and he too did not like the selection of Tavon Wilson.

    “The results? A mixed bag, with DE Chandler Jones (21) and LB Dont’a Hightower (25) possible moments of brilliance, and S Tavon Wilson (48) potentially a total flub,” Burkes wrote.

     

    CBSSports.com’s Pete Prisco 

    A for Jones

    C for Hightower Pick ("where will he play?")

    also questioned the selection of Wilson but at least tried to understand the thought process behind it.

    “Most scouts had him rated down the board. But Bill Belichick has to like his versatility since he has played corner as well,” Prisco said.

    “Belichick usually trades back, but moved up twice to land Jones and Dont’a Hightower,” Prisco wrote. “Those picks are solid, even if I didn’t like the trade up to get Hightower as their second first-round pick. The pick of Wilson could decide this draft.”

     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Interesting.  Even the 'experts' can't agree on how good the Pats draft was.  I will say that I find Prisco's comment: 'The pick of Wilson could decide the draft.' to be patently absurd.

    My 2 cents.
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    this is such a straight forward pick by pick analysis by walter football without any pro or anti patriot bias (or fear of calling something what it is).

    happen to agree ebert and ebner could have been picked up in fa.

    2012 NFL Offseason: New England Patriots

    Draft Grades, Season Previews, Offseason Needs, Free Agents



    New England Patriots (Last Year: 13-3)

    2012 NFL Draft Grade: B-

    Goals Entering the 2012 NFL Draft: New England's needs are pretty obvious. The team couldn't get any pressure on the quarterback last year, which impacted an already-lackluster secondary. It should be mostly defense here, with the occasional receiver or offensive lineman.

    2012 NFL Draft Accomplishments: The Patriots were infamous for trading down and stockpiling picks. Until now. They've changed their ways apparently - and understandably so.

    Tom Brady will be 35 in August. His Super Bowl window is quickly closing. Unlike the Broncos, the Patriots understand that they need to acquire as much immediate help for their aging quarterback as possible. For Brady, that was pass-rushing assistance on the defensive side of the ball because he has the appropriate amount of weapons to work with on offense.

    So, New England's plan was a great one. Its execution, however, wasn't very good. I liked the Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower selections, and Alfonzo Dennard was a mega steal in Round 7, but Bill Belichick made far too many reaches. Tavon Wilson, selected at No. 48 overall, shouldn't have gone until at least the fourth round. Meanwhile, Nate Ebner, as mentioned below, wasn't ranked anywhere.

    Having said that, the Patriots still improved their roster and gave themselves a better chance of actually winning the Super Bowl this year.


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    2012 NFL Draft Individual Grades:

    21. Chandler Jones, DE/OLB, Syracuse: B+ Grade
    The pass-rushers were flying off the board, so the Patriots made an unlikely move and moved up for Chandler Jones. I don't have much of a problem with this. In fact, I think this is a decent move because Chandler Jones could have gone as high as No. 12. Unfortunately for the Patriots, Bill Belichick's run of having two first-round picks will conclude in 2013.

    25. Dont'a Hightower, ILB/DE/OLB, Alabama: B Grade
    Dont'a Hightower is a really good football player who fits the range. I didn't think the Patriots would pick him, but it makes sense because Bill Belichick loves players with versatility. Hightower definitely has that; he can be used at inside linebacker or on the edge as a pass-rusher. Belichick will have lots of fun using Hightower all over the football field. If the Patriots didn't trade up, this might have been an A-.

    48. Tavon Wilson, S, Illinois: D Grade
    Whoa. Major reach. Tavon Wilson's rankings on various major draft boards: 254, 212, 216, 245, 182. Yeesh. I'd like to give Bill Belichick the benefit of the doubt, but it's not like he hasn't ever drafted a bust before. Why couldn't Belichick have traded down? He could have probably obtained Wilson in Round 3.

    90. Jake Bequette, DE, Arkansas: C Grade
    Another reach by Bill Belichick, though this one isn't nearly as drastic. Jake Bequette can play in multiple spots in Belichick's defense, so New England drafting him shouldn't be much of a surprise - though it would have been better served in Rounds 4 or 5.



    197. Nate Ebner, DB, Ohio State: C- Grade
    Nate Ebner was not ranked anywhere. Couldn't they have signed him on Sunday?

    224. Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska: A+ Grade
    Alfonzo Dennard was a first-round prospect in the fall. He looked bad at the Senior Bowl, so he fell to Round 2. Then, he allegedly punched a cop. This is the penalty for punching a cop. He's definitely worth the risk in Round 7.

    235. Jeremy Ebert, WR, Northwestern: C Grade
    Again, this is someone the Patriots could have obtained as a UDFA
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    I look at 6th and 7th as picks that you should use on either players falling or for UDFA's that you want to make sure that you get. Chances of finding potential starters that late are slim so why not target players that might hit UDFA and you want to make sure they won't sign with a different team? I think that's why they pulled the trigger on Brady, wanted to make sure he didn't get a chance to hit UDFA and chose what team he wanted to go to.

    With Bequette, I don't know how he was a reach. Some people had him graded as high as a mid 2nd rounder while others had him as low as a late 4th so in the late 3rd sounds about right. Besides he might be up against his ceiling but in NE the no collar lunch pail kids like Bequette tend to thrive.

    One thing I always question about experts is how they weigh picks. I see a lot of them saying they love the rest of NE's pick except for Wilson (which I agree) and then turn around saying they only got a B- grade? How can 1 player in the 2nd so negatively affect the draft when almost all agree they nailed day 1? I though day 1 were the most important picks? Now I do wish they traded back #48 and picked Wilson a little later on but at that moment DB was the most glaring weakness, the Pats only had 2 picks left, they must of had Wilson rated fairly high (though I've heard they had him as a late 3rd - 4th range) because of versatility, and I'm guessing they couldn't find a trade partner. If all the above is true I can understand why they took him, to ensure that they got him given the limited amount of picks remaining. Doesn't mean I have to like the pick or that it wasn't a reach but after thinking about it I understand the pick
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    so BB gets criticized for past drafts because he didn't move up to get the necessary guys; this year he moves up to get Hightower and the is downgraded because he moved up (perhaps to preclude Baltimore)

    PLease help me understand?
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]so BB gets criticized for past drafts because he didn't move up to get the necessary guys; this year he moves up to get Hightower and the is downgraded because he moved up (perhaps to preclude Baltimore) PLease help me understand?
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    People who don't like the Pats will find a reason not to like them?

    Personally the fans have been saying to move up and grab impact pass rushers for years now and BB finally has. I don't think a single fan (except True and KC because they've been saying leading up to the draft that trading back was the best method) have a right to complain. Most in the media though treat BB with bias and venom because he treats them like the redheaded step child who stayed back in the 3rd grade 12 times because they don't understand the learning. Can you really blame them, honestly? We love to listen to his press conferences for the shear comedy of how he treats the media and the clever ways they try to dance around subjects to get even a drop of info from BB. Lets face it, most of us can tell you BB's exact answer to any question before he even answers it. His pressers would actually be very boring if not for the fans intentionally looking for comedic value from the back and forth between the media and BB. You can't blame the media for BB making their jobs incredible difficult
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    It's kind of funny how "value" weighs so heavily in draft grades.

    I'm guessing the only reason Dennard is an A+, and Jones and Hightower are B's is because of percieved value.  I mean, Hightower and Jones were pretty universally considered 1st round talents and Dennard a second round talent.  There may be a few exceptions, but basically.  So if the Pats picked up Dennard in the first then he would be a "B" or "C", and Hightower in the 3rd would be an "A"? 

    If a team picked 10 first round picks who were projected as first round picks than I guess that's a "B" because they gained no value.  But if a team picked nothing but guys in the seventh round who had fallen in the projections they would get an "A" because of value.  But realistically the team with ten first round prospects is much better of than the team with a bunch of value prospects who fell a few rounds.

    If they had drafted:
    Hightower- 1st round
    Jones- 2nd round
    Dennard- 3rd round
    Bequette-6th round
    Wilson- 6th
    Ebert- 7th
    Ebner- 7th

    Then they would Probably gen a "A" from everybody.
    If they drafted those same guys a round or two earlier it become a "D"....

    With the same players any draft can be a A or D depending on where they are taken.

    Kind of crazy considiering nobody ever really talks about draft value after the games start.  I mean nobody ever says "Hey, Ed Reed is great, but he was supposed to be good so that's really wasn't a good value pick" or "What a waste of value Richard Seymour was, they could have traded back and got him ten picks later- bet the Patriots wish they could get a redo on that one."

    After the games start the only thing that ever really matters is if the players are any good.  Considering the Pats stocked up on more top tier talent than most with two first rounders I would think that would incline them to an "A"....

    but value I guess.


     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Shenanagin - yes that is the universal rating system ... and makes sense. You can't penalize the Giants at #32 for not drafting a top 5 talent. And they also put a value on perceived need - Pats picking Mallet last year get a low grade for need but a very high grade for value in taking 'first round talent' in the 3rd round.
    So most people had graded both Hightower and Jones in the twenties so BB drafting them in the 20s was 'value' neutral and need based it was more positive for Jones because ILB for the Pats was pretty solid already. Add in the two extra picks they expended to get them and how that may have affected their ability to move around in the later rounds and you may penalize them a little.
    I really like the Hightower pick, but it is interesting to think about what might have happened if they didn't trade up. They probably make the same trade with Tampa that Denver did, Baltimore probably takes Hightower, and Pats probably take Upshaw at #36, plus they now have two more seconds and two fourth rounders. Much more flexibity for day two and beyond.
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Shen - The way I think about it is that 1st rounders are suppose to be high talent players to begin with. The perception is, if you are taking in the 1st you are suppose to be a starter. So, taking Hightower and Jones fill needs and they fit what 1st rounders are suppose to be.

    Wilson on the other hand, many believe won't ever be a starting caliber player. Even with pick #48 the expectation is that you can find starters or at minimum players that may take a couple of years to develop but will be starters and to most Wilson doesn't fit that need so the grade is lowered. It's lowered because you not only passed up a chance to get a potential starter but also because you took a player you could of hand in a different round. Now that's based off of current data and not actually of what the player will become. He could turn into the next Ed Reed for all anyone knows or the next Meriweather. Chances are he'll be closer to a J Sanders or T Jones but it's a big risk taking him that early over more talented players, hence the low grade

    Dennard on the other hand presents a talent level so far above and beyond anyone else taken where he his that the grade reflects that. You aren't expected to find a rotational player yet alone a starter in the 7th. Most people feel the 7th is mainly used for ST's, backup's with high ceilings, or a jump start on UDFA's to make sure you get the guy you want before they sign some where else. Agents actually say it's better to be UDFA then to be picked in the 7th because at least then you can choose the team and have a better shot of making a roster. To find a player with starting capability in the 7th deserves a high grade.

    It's all about expected results and not based on actual results at this moment but odds are you are closer to finding a Manning at the top of the 1st then you are a Brady in the 6th so as you get further in the draft getting players with starting caliber talent get higher grades and the closer you are to the #1 pick taking players with questionable starting ability get lower grades.
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]Shen - The way I think about it is that 1st rounders are suppose to be high talent players to begin with. The perception is, if you are taking in the 1st you are suppose to be a starter. So, taking Hightower and Jones fill needs and they fit what 1st rounders are suppose to be. Wilson on the other hand, many believe won't ever be a starting caliber player. Even with pick #48 the expectation is that you can find starters or at minimum players that may take a couple of years to develop but will be starters and to most Wilson doesn't fit that need so the grade is lowered. It's lowered because you not only passed up a chance to get a potential starter but also because you took a player you could of hand in a different round. Now that's based off of current data and not actually of what the player will become. He could turn into the next Ed Reed for all anyone knows or the next Meriweather. Chances are he'll be closer to a J Sanders or T Jones but it's a big risk taking him that early over more talented players, hence the low grade Dennard on the other hand presents a talent level so far above and beyond anyone else taken where he his that the grade reflects that. You aren't expected to find a rotational player yet alone a starter in the 7th. Most people feel the 7th is mainly used for ST's, backup's with high ceilings, or a jump start on UDFA's to make sure you get the guy you want before they sign some where else. Agents actually say it's better to be UDFA then to be picked in the 7th because at least then you can choose the team and have a better shot of making a roster. To find a player with starting capability in the 7th deserves a high grade. It's all about expected results and not based on actual results at this moment but odds are you are closer to finding a Manning at the top of the 1st then you are a Brady in the 6th so as you get further in the draft getting players with starting caliber talent get higher grades and the closer you are to the #1 pick taking players with questionable starting ability get lower grades.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    But this is not what it's about with the draft grades.  If that were the case the highest grades would go to the team with the lowest picks.  1st rounders would be A's, 2nd rounders B's and so on.  Tell you the truth that's probably a better way to grade the draft. 

    Just take the draft value chart for where everyone was picked, add the numbers and highest number wins. 

    I mean, the flaws on the current grading are obvious. 

    For one the grades are simply on the perceived difference in value between what experts think and what teams think, there is no evidence I know of showing that experts have better success at scouting than NFL scouts. 

    Second, with multiple graders in every draft 40 or 50 players will be graded as first rounders since there can be a difference in 5 or 10 guys in each mock. 

    And the last and most obvious is that it penalizes teams for having more picks.  If the Pats take Hightower in the Second, and Dennard in the seventh than they get two "A" grades, but logically the chances of finding a better player are better with more picks.  Having 5 more "C" graded players should bring the grades up, not down. 

    An average type of grade system makes zero sense.  Every single pick, no matter how poorly they grade out should make a higher grade.  Any system that allows that picking no player over a possibly bad player is a good move is flawed.  Ther is a much greater chance of say Wilson, becoming successful than if the Pats simply had no pick in that spot- but I'll bet they'd have a higher grade if they had no pick there.

    The Manning example is perfect.  The Colts 98 draft is a good example, they should get an A.  Doesn't matter that Manning represented no value.  Teams with higher picks should get better grades, they have a better chance of finding better players.  Doesn't matter if it's not fair to the team that picks last, it's no supposed to be. 

    So yeah, the totality of picks, and how close they are to the top of the draft seems like the obvious way to grade to me.

    But I guess that's probably too obvious and simple since these grades are really about creating talking points more than anything and everyone knows they're not worth the digital paper they're written on.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

     Why even have a draft? Instead the teams can just sit back and let a group of 'pros' pick for every team. Never mind the fact that none of them have coached an NFL team or players. They are writers so they certainly know more than the NFL coaches and GMs.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Shen - the grading is not being done vs. other teams, it is being done just looking at the team being graded. If team A has pciks #1 and #34 and #73 then the grade is saying the pciks they made at those spots were either good or bad value. Obviously team B with picks #30, #60, and #100 is expected to get less talented players than team A so in absolute 'value' their draft would be much worse, but if they got the #15, #35, and #60 rated players with those picks, they would grade as A+ against the expectations of what they should have been able to get with those picks. Likewise if team A ended up with the #10, #45, and #120 graded players, they would get an F for the value vs. what was expected with their picks.
    All the grading is subjective, both of the players and of the teams and in 4 years we will have a much better idea of how a team did, and how good the players actually are. Right now it is just a fun game for fans to argue about.
    But you can also look at past history and say that round 1 players have x% chance of being 4 year starters, round 2 players have y% chance of being 4 year starters, etc. and if over ten years your round two success rate falls above y% you have done well and if it is below y% you have not done well.
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

     ATJ,

    I'm with you. If Prisco has to ask "where will he play?" then he doesn't even have the football IQ to grade a draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't NE have nine division titles in eleven years with five Superbowl appearences, three titles and came within a whisker of winning the other two? Here's telling Prisco to get lost!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Here's how a draft rating really works:

    Does a team with its own scouting organization know more than a lone sports reporter who reads the Internet?  Yes.

    How did BB do a couple of years ago?  He hit big on Gronkowski and Hernandez.  McCourty made rookie of the year while Kyle Shrimpy-Arms Wilson, another good choice, didn't make starter.  Logan Mankins was a big hit.

    Did BB seem to have purpose to his picking?  Yes

    Was BB particularly drunk on draft day?  No. 

    OK, give BB an A.  No more information is available.

     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros : But this is not what it's about with the draft grades.  If that were the case the highest grades would go to the team with the lowest picks.  1st rounders would be A's, 2nd rounders B's and so on.  Tell you the truth that's probably a better way to grade the draft.  Just take the draft value chart for where everyone was picked, add the numbers and highest number wins.  I mean, the flaws on the current grading are obvious.  For one the grades are simply on the perceived difference in value between what experts think and what teams think, there is no evidence I know of showing that experts have better success at scouting than NFL scouts.  Second, with multiple graders in every draft 40 or 50 players will be graded as first rounders since there can be a difference in 5 or 10 guys in each mock.  And the last and most obvious is that it penalizes teams for having more picks.  If the Pats take Hightower in the Second, and Dennard in the seventh than they get two "A" grades, but logically the chances of finding a better player are better with more picks.  Having 5 more "C" graded players should bring the grades up, not down.  An average type of grade system makes zero sense.  Every single pick, no matter how poorly they grade out should make a higher grade.  Any system that allows that picking no player over a possibly bad player is a good move is flawed.  Ther is a much greater chance of say Wilson, becoming successful than if the Pats simply had no pick in that spot- but I'll bet they'd have a higher grade if they had no pick there. The Manning example is perfect.  The Colts 98 draft is a good example, they should get an A.  Doesn't matter that Manning represented no value.  Teams with higher picks should get better grades, they have a better chance of finding better players.  Doesn't matter if it's not fair to the team that picks last, it's no supposed to be.  So yeah, the totality of picks, and how close they are to the top of the draft seems like the obvious way to grade to me. But I guess that's probably too obvious and simple since these grades are really about creating talking points more than anything and everyone knows they're not worth the digital paper they're written on.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]


    And like it or not, you absolutely have to factor in who was still on the board at 48, and the relative likelyhood of the "Opportunity Cost" of selecting Wilson there. If Konz turns out to be a multi-year pro-bowl center and Wilson busts out, how's the draft look now? And if I had to bet on the two, I'm betting on Konz right now.
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Only time will tell if this year's draft is ballsy or a bust.........
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]Here's how a draft rating really works: Does a team with its own scouting organization know more than a lone sports reporter who reads the Internet?  Yes. How did BB do a couple of years ago?  He hit big on Gronkowski and Hernandez.  McCourty made rookie of the year while Kyle Shrimpy-Arms Wilson, another good choice, didn't make starter.  Logan Mankins was a big hit. Did BB seem to have purpose to his picking?  Yes Was BB particularly drunk on draft day?  No.  OK, give BB an A.  No more information is available.
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    There you go again - employing logic and reason on this board.  It's just plain hurtful.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from chiefret. Show chiefret's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    Mel Kiper and the other countless NFL draftniks of the world are irrelevant. The 32 NFL teams do the due diligence on interested players, they're fully vetted and the "experts" are getting boring w/their incessant drivel abt pick #48. I hope the kid becomes the second coming of Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed to prove these hacks wrong. BB is still the smartest guy in the room. 

     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]Interesting.  Even the 'experts' can't agree on how good the Pats draft was.  I will say that I find Prisco's comment: 'The pick of Wilson could decide the draft.' to be patently absurd. My 2 cents.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    Prisco is such an idiot! He gives the Hightower pick a C because he doesn't know where he'll play? Thats the great thing about Hightower is he versatile and can play any LB spot, which BB loves. So shouldn't that pick be an A or atleast a B
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros : Prisco is such an idiot! He gives the Hightower pick a C because he doesn't know where he'll play? Thats the great thing about Hightower is he versatile and can play any LB spot, which BB loves. So shouldn't that pick be an A or atleast a B
    Posted by I sat on your toilet[/QUOTE]

    Which goes back to my comment that 'draft experts' don't coach or run NFL teams and have the luxery of ignoring things like you bring up.

    They also have zero price to pay when they are wrong.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros : And like it or not, you absolutely have to factor in who was still on the board at 48, and the relative likelyhood of the "Opportunity Cost" of selecting Wilson there. If Konz turns out to be a multi-year pro-bowl center and Wilson busts out, how's the draft look now? And if I had to bet on the two, I'm betting on Konz right now.
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]
    And if Konz turns out to be a bust does it make Wilson a better pick?  I don't think so.  You can pretty much guarantee that 1 of the 47 picked before Wilson will be a bigger bust than Wilson, and of the hundreds picked after Wilson one will end up being a better player than Wilson.  Looking at it like that every team blows nearly every pick every year since everyone will inevitably miss on some great late picks. 

    To look at a draft like that and think if one great player ends up being availabe that we could have had then it's a bad draft then you'll never be satisfied with any draft.
     
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    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros : And if Konz turns out to be a bust does it make Wilson a better pick?  I don't think so.  You can pretty much guarantee that 1 of the 47 picked before Wilson will be a bigger bust than Wilson, and of the hundreds picked after Wilson one will end up being a better player than Wilson.  Looking at it like that every team blows nearly every pick every year since everyone will inevitably miss on some great late picks.  To look at a draft like that and think if one great player ends up being availabe that we could have had then it's a bad draft then you'll never be satisfied with any draft.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Yes but you are missing 1 critical element here, we are fans. As fans we crave anything that has to do with the team and analyses every move. I mean what fun would it be to just watch the game then never talk about it until the next game? So, as fans we demand something to talk about and draft grades are one of those things. In the end they are meaningless and they have no bearing on the outcome on whether a player becomes a start or not (well if they have a chip on their shoulders they might see some benefit to prove the experts wrong). So, in general being just for the fans the grades are based on the value of the player compared to the pick itself. Such as, how many people point to Wilson not even being considered a top 200 player? On TV, in the papers, on forums such as this. Now that top players list is completely irrelevant to everything and only exists for fans to get stary eye'd and have some clue where one of their players might fall or who their team might pick. I highly doubt any team takes top lists into account except for their own. So if Hightower was ranked #50 on that list he might be given a C grade for being taken at #25, if he was #25 on the list then they might give him a B grade because he was taken where he was suppose to, and if he was ranked #5 on the list then he'd get an A grade. It will in no way affect the player himself or how the team feels about the player it's all for the fans to bring up discussion and increase enjoyment over a relative boring subject (ie see baseball draft). Of course they add complexity like things as if the kid will be a starter, upgrade a weakness of the team, or provide depth for the team but for the most part grades are based on if it fills a weakness for the team and were the player was placed on the player list verses the pick they were taken in. In the end it's completely meaningless and just one additional treat to keep fans happy and talking
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros

    In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Several Pats Draft Grades From the Pros : Yes but you are missing 1 critical element here, we are fans. As fans we crave anything that has to do with the team and analyses every move. I mean what fun would it be to just watch the game then never talk about it until the next game? So, as fans we demand something to talk about and draft grades are one of those things. In the end they are meaningless and they have no bearing on the outcome on whether a player becomes a start or not (well if they have a chip on their shoulders they might see some benefit to prove the experts wrong). So, in general being just for the fans the grades are based on the value of the player compared to the pick itself. Such as, how many people point to Wilson not even being considered a top 200 player? On TV, in the papers, on forums such as this. Now that top players list is completely irrelevant to everything and only exists for fans to get stary eye'd and have some clue where one of their players might fall or who their team might pick. I highly doubt any team takes top lists into account except for their own. So if Hightower was ranked #50 on that list he might be given a C grade for being taken at #25, if he was #25 on the list then they might give him a B grade because he was taken where he was suppose to, and if he was ranked #5 on the list then he'd get an A grade. It will in no way affect the player himself or how the team feels about the player it's all for the fans to bring up discussion and increase enjoyment over a relative boring subject (ie see baseball draft). Of course they add complexity like things as if the kid will be a starter, upgrade a weakness of the team, or provide depth for the team but for the most part grades are based on if it fills a weakness for the team and were the player was placed on the player list verses the pick they were taken in. In the end it's completely meaningless and just one additional treat to keep fans happy and talking
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I'm not missing anything.  I didn't say they can't or shouldn't do grades, I said I think they grades should maybe make sense.  And should strive to represent how much better a team got by adding the drafted players not just to grade how well they did compared to a percieved amount of talent availabe at a percieved moment in time.  Even if history showed they are dead on in their grades, they tell you nothing. 

    I'm done here.  Just thought I'd point out the absurdity.  I guess the absurd you know is better than the absurd you don't.
     
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