Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DuncanOrange. Show DuncanOrange's posts

    Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 1:55 AM EDT

    First off, the Patriots are going to be a monster against the run with Albert Haynesworth and Vince Wilfork playing in the 4-3.  That's about 750 pounds there in the middle, it's going to look a lot like the Ravens in 2000 when Tony Sagusa and Sam Adams were just beasts and Jerod Mayo is going to have a Ray Lewis like season making tackles.      

    So we're going to have a lot of 3rd and longs.    No add in a guy like Shaun Ellis, a tough veteran who can get to the QB.   Now you add in a guy like Andre Carter, who if motivated and playing by talent and get back into double digit sack territory.  Then you got Big Daddy Haynesworth who will be collapsing the pocket. 

    Now add in an improve secondary and New England's defense is going to be scary.

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 2:35 AM EDT

    yeah... I won't lie... I'm aroused.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 3:13 AM EDT

    It is interesting, because I do see BB running a lot of packages that will look a lot like that Ravens defense did in the early 2000's. That was a perfect example of how you just find ways to fit talent on the field. It was almost like a 43 -> 46 defense being run as a 52, where they used Peter Boulware, who is huge for a 4-3 OLB, as an extra lineman.

    That team didn't have much outside of McCallister and Starks, and didn't have much in the way of true linebackers, but they just used their talent really well.

                    Wright/Ellis - Wilfork - Haynesworth - Carter
    Bodden           Cunningham/Nink - Mayo - Spikes               McCourty
                             Meriweather           Chung

    Chung, Meri, Mayo, and Spikes are going to have a lot of protection in front of them, and will be allowed to make some plays on rushed passes.

    Although that defense looked even bigger than a traditional 4-3, it ran more double gap type assignments in the middle with Goose and Adams, liberating all those guys to attack various positions and close on the ball.
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 4:42 AM EDT

    We have a great combination of young guys and veterans.  Even a guy like Ron Brace, who I know a lot of fans are giving up on after two seasons.  But if Hayneworth and Wilfork stays healthy, all we'll need out of brace is 8-12 quality snaps a game.  

    I think Mayo and Spikes are just going to go nuts this season, shutting down running backs.    And if the combination of Cunningham, Carter, Haynesworth, and Ellis can put consistent pressure on QB's, this could be the best defense we've ever had in New England.
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 4:58 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....:
    It is interesting, because I do see BB running a lot of packages that will look a lot like that Ravens defense did in the early 2000's. That was a perfect example of how you just find ways to fit talent on the field. It was almost like a 43 - /> 46 defense being run as a 52, where they used Peter Boulware, who is huge for a 4-3 OLB, as an extra lineman. That team didn't have much outside of McCallister and Starks, and didn't have much in the way of true linebackers, but they just used their talent really well.                 Wright/Ellis - Wilfork - Haynesworth - Carter Bodden           Cunningham/Nink - Mayo - Spikes               McCourty                          Meriweather           Chung Chung, Meri, Mayo, and Spikes are going to have a lot of protection in front of them, and will be allowed to make some plays on rushed passes. Although that defense looked even bigger than a traditional 4-3, it ran more double gap type assignments in the middle with Goose and Adams, liberating all those guys to attack various positions and close on the ball.
    Posted by zbellino


    Moore will have a role in the defense somewhere too
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcrossDaPond. Show AcrossDaPond's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 9:15 AM EDT

    Mayo will play on the outside and BSpikes will thump in the middle, no way he has the speed to play outside.  Word out of camp is Mayo can actually get after the QB when asked....
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 9:46 AM EDT

    I think another plus is that the veterans will be coming into the season with fresh bodies for the most part since offseason practices were cut down.

    That has to be worth something too.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 10:31 AM EDT

    I've been having fun looking at possible formations and have come up with some interesting one's in different formations. Now of course because of substitution players are going to move fluidly back and forth but here's what I'm thinking

    1st down:

     Bodden           Haynesworth       Wilfork      G Warren           McCourty

                Cunningham                Mayo          Spikes         Nin

                                 Chung                          Brown

    2nd long:

     Bodden    Wright/Moore    Haynesworth     Wilfork     Ellis      McCourty

                      Cunningham              Mayo             Nin

                              Chung                   Meriweather

    2nd short:

        Bodden           Haynesworth       Wilfork       G Warren        McCourty

                       Cunningham          Mayo         Spikes          Nin

                                    Chung                        Brown

    3rd long:

    Bodden   Cunn/Moore   Haynes Love/Wright   Carter/Anderson McCourty

                          Mayo                                   Guyton
                   Ras/Arrington
                               Sanders              Meriweather

    3rd short:

        Bodden           G Warren   Haynesworth      Love        Ellis      McCourty

                                     Mayo                        Guyton
     
                               Chung           Brown        Meriweather

    *Updated to included recently added G Warren
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 10:50 AM EDT

    Yes, I'm in agreement. We're looking to have so much depth, BB is bringing in role-(or specific down)-playing defensive players that not only will opposing offenses see different packages depending on scenario, but player packages with specific skill sets. Hopefully, a very creative defense. Lots of veteran guys who do one thing well, while maybe not doing other things so well (4 down players). Another thing to consider is their veteran status because with a shortened training camp and pre-season, especially defensively, guys like Ellis, Haynesworth, Carter, Anderson can come in and do their specific package jobs - rather than other teams who will have to rely on rookies. Now couple this with brand new offensive opponents who will be completely raw, out-of-sync, and maybe not have as much on-the-field experience together - and this defense is built for post-lockout domination. I think BB has put a TON of thinking into the fact that there are so many teams like Buffalo, Miami, (even NYY) who will be scrambling offensively to find a rhythm due to new QB's, receivers, linemen and will be struggling just to keep up with themselves, not to mention planning their offensive timing versus a team of veteran players on the Pats. Week 1 cannot come soon enough. 

     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 10:54 AM EDT

    The defense will be great with only meriweather being the biggest weakness. If the defense does get burned at times this season, my guess is, it will happen because of him.
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 12:30 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....:
    yeah... I won't lie... I'm aroused.
    Posted by Getzo


    Bad visual.
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 12:48 PM EDT

    I was talking to some co-workers this morning about the defense and told them the bend but don't brake days may be over. I am ready for a top five low points allowed qb killing superbowl D this year!!!!!
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 1:37 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....:
    I've been having fun looking at possible formations and have come up with some interesting one's in different formations. Now of course because of substitution players are going to move fluidly back and forth but here's what I'm thinking 1st down:  Bodden           Haynesworth       Wilfork      Brace           McCourty             Cunningham                Mayo            Spikes         Nin                              Chung                          Brown 2nd long:  Bodden    Wright/Moore    Haynesworth     Wilfork     Ellis      McCourty                   Cunningham              Mayo             Nin                           Chung                   Meriweather 2nd short:     Bodden            Brace    Haynesworth       Wilfork               McCourty                    Cunningham          Mayo         Spikes          Nin                                 Chung                        Brown 3rd long: Bodden Cunningham/Moore Haynesworth Ellis Carter/Anderson McCourty                       Mayo                                   Guyton                Ras/Arrington                            Sanders              Meriweather 3rd short:     Bodden           Brace    Haynesworth      Love        Ellis      McCourty                             Mayo                        Guyton                          Chung           Brown        Meriweather
    Posted by PatsEng


    Interesting personnel uses. Overall i like and agree....question is..you have Haynesworth in just about every scheme...Do you think he has the stamina to be a 3 down player, or are we going to see less snaps for him, rotating with Ellis, Love, Pryor?..The big knock on him is conditioning, so I'm suspect right now on his ability to be a 3rd down player at this point, just based on conditioning, not skill set.
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 1:40 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....:
    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush.... : Interesting personnel uses. Overall i like and agree....question is..you have Haynesworth in just about every scheme...Do you think he has the stamina to be a 3 down player, or are we going to see less snaps for him, rotating with Ellis, Love, Pryor?..The big knock on him is conditioning, so I'm suspect right now on his ability to be a 3rd down player at this point, just based on conditioning, not skill set.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I see him being the prime option but with sub players coming in to give him rest every so often. Right now I'm looking at Love to be the main sub for both Wilfork and Haynesworth with Brace and Wright as being secondary sub's

    BTW since they just resigned Warren I'm updating my 3 man fronts to include Warren
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 2:00 PM EDT


    Yeah, I saw the GWarren signing...Assuming he sticks, who gets pushed out? Love, Pryor, Brace, Deaderick?....

    Given who we have signed, new guys brought into camp, I see less and less room for the young guys. Does this sacrifice our medium term health?

    My list of DL that stick are....
    Wilfork
    Haynesworth
    Ellis
    GWarren
    Wright
    Pryor
    Love
    Brace
    Moore
    Carter

    That's 10 DL (DT, NT, DE)..is that too many?...sounds about right...with that list, Deaderick and Anderson don't make it...plus many others of course that are way down on the depth chart
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DuncanOrange. Show DuncanOrange's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 2:48 PM EDT

    I think what BB will do is run the 4-3 the majority of the time, with Haynesworth and Wilfork on first and second down.  Take away the running game, get teams in 3rd and long.    But I also expect to see plenty of 3-4 with Haynesworth on the sideline giving him a rest.   Wilfork, Warren, Brace, Ellis, Wright, and the rest of the guys, will be able to run the 3-4 decently without Haynesworth.  This will mainly be done to give QB's a different look from time to time and to mix it up.   

    A big defense + a fast defense = scary defense.

     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 3:07 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....:
    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush.... : Bad visual.

    Posted by mrbungle

     

    Good feeling !

     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 3:09 PM EDT

    Lifer I think they toss Brace on the 6 week PuP to begin the season and see if anyone gets injured. From there I think Wright gets the boot. He's been a good reliable player but it seems every time he's about to get on a role he has been hindered by injuries. With the new guys essentially bringing pass rushing ability in the same role Wright might be a casuality from lack of open spots. Pyror is the other option to release besides Wright and needs to prove a lot to stay on the roster imo. He's been a good back up but back ups can always be upgraded and replaced so he's a bubble player. IMO 1 of the 2 make the roster

    From Carter, Anderson, Deadrick and Moore they all play essentially the same role so I only see 3 of the 4 making the team and right now Deadrick might be the odd man out after being benched last year. The reason I see 3 making the squad is because they have a ton of interior presence but edge rushers are essentially limited to those 4 and the OLB's (Cunningham, Nin, Fletcher).

    It's going to be a hard cut but we could see 8 DL that could potential start for other teams around the league which would be crazy
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 3:26 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....:
    yeah... I won't lie... I'm aroused.
    Posted by Getzo

    So thats not a half-pack of Rolaids in your pocket?
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 3:31 PM EDT

    I'm thinkin' BB's New Look will obviously be...



           ACarter/AHaynesworth/SWilliams/VWilfork/MWright/SEllis/MAnderson
    DMC                                                                                                 LBoddn
                                                      BSpikes

                                                      PChung


    ~Clearly, this is what BB'll show...
    Spikes on running downs, Mayo on passing downs.
    Chung on running downs, Sanders on Passing downs
    Ron Brace as Wilfork's sub
    Landon Cohen, or Myron Pryor and Mike Wright switching (any combo here)
    Daryll Richard, or Kyle Love and Steve Williams switching (any combo here of 1-gapping smaller 6'1-6'2 and @ 300lb DTs spearheading and just goin' all out shooting gaps flanking both sides of Wilfork...same as above guys).
    Gerrard Warren & Kade Weston (these 6'4-6'5 and 310 and up guys, subbing for Haynesworth & Ellis.
    Then ya got any combo of Jermaine Cunningham & Eric Moore, and If/Or Alex Silvestro and Aaron Lavarias switching/subbing for best suitable on run or pass down with the ends, Mark Anderson & Andre Carter...

    On an all-out blitz (which lol, this CLEARLY isn't), you might wanna substitute this low-gamble "prevent type defense" by simply taking your lone Safety in either Chung or Sanders, right outta the picture, and throwing in either Dane Fletcher or Gary Guyton as 1 more, much needed just-off-the-line, Pass-rush threat...

    So there it is...  BB's new 7-1 Defense.   
     
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 4:17 PM EDT


    PatsEng,

    I do think Carter, Anderson and Moore all play a similar role. I would take 2 of those. But, I think Deaderick is more of a 3-4 DE or possibly 4-3 DT. I don't think he has the same speed/quick/strength profile as the other 3. Those 3 seem more fast twitch/rush the passer guys than Deaderick. I think Deaderick gets the boot.
    I agree..I think we take 2 of those 3 mentioned above.

    We've taken a relatively mediocre position (DL) and turned it into a position of great strength....assuming all stay healthy, and can play. Very exciting.
     

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    Re: Shaun Ellis + Andre Carter + Albert Haynesworth = New England Pass Rush....

    posted at 8/8/2011 4:23 PM EDT

    For the most part I'd see the D-lines looking like this, the backups who see a good amount of time (say 20-30% of the snaps) are in parenthesis.

    In the 4-3:

    DE Anderson (Cunningham) - DT Wilfork (Warren) - DT Haynesworth (Ellis) - DE Carter (Moore)

    In the 3-4:

    DE Ellis (Haynesworth) - NT Wilfork (Warren) - Wright (Warren)

    Between Pryor and Love you only have room for 1 of them. Try and trade the other for a late pick to replace the ones we gave up for Chad/Albert. If you call Cunningham an OLB then we have kept 9 guys. We'd prob only have 7-8 linebackers on the roster. I'd want TBC back at the min and PUP him.

    Brace should be PUP'd, spend those 6 weeks getting in better shape and practicing being a 3-4 DE. He is insurance in case anyone gets hurt and hopefully replaces Ellis's snaps in 2012.