shocked at Talibs numbers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    shocked at Talibs numbers

    I have to admit, that is a low end deal. makes me wonder what everyone else sees that no one offered him a contract more than 1/$4.8.

    are they afraid of the person or the player?

    the Pats also put a games played bonus in the contract. makes me think they are not sure he can hold up. seems the "depth" is sliding Arrington over (that did not work so well) or Ras....I have to assume the Pats have another CB in the plan.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheTinMan. Show TheTinMan's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    I think the money and the GP bonus also reflect that the guy hasn't played a complete season in something like 3 years due to injuries.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    I told ya.  YOu just want to learn.  The market is FLOODED, especially with CBs. The question was, how many.  Well, we found out. Philly alone cut two quality starters for crying out loud.

    Throw in, the fact that both Talib and BB know his best bet is a fit here in this structured environment and it's a smart move, which means BB had a lot of leverage.

    I told you this.

    You went running in here slapping up numbers for nicelbacks the first day of FA all worried about that affecting Arrington's dollars here, too.

    Not everything is so black and white. You have to look at everything. 



    Arrington got a better deal than Talib for crying out loud...this isnt a case of the market being flooded...numerous CB's got much better deals...

    Smith 3/$18

    Houston 5/$25

    Lewis 5/$26

    Williams 3/$17

    Robinson 3/$15

    McKelvin 4/$20

    Toler 3/$15

    Why was everyone scared off Talib?

    If you recall I posted Yates (not me) said Arrington would get 3/$15 (he got 4/$16). Smith getting 3/$18 was what I thought Talib was worth, him getting 1/$4.8 raises flags for me.

    Didnt the "market" say Ras was going to be injury prone, yet the Pats spent a #2? Didnt the "market" say Wilson was a late round draft choice, but the Pats spent a #2? Now the "market" seems to be saying stay away from Talib at any cost.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    I told ya.  YOu just want to learn.  The market is FLOODED, especially with CBs. The question was, how many.  Well, we found out. Philly alone cut two quality starters for crying out loud.

    Throw in, the fact that both Talib and BB know his best bet is a fit here in this structured environment and it's a smart move, which means BB had a lot of leverage.

    I told you this.

    You went running in here slapping up numbers for nicelbacks the first day of FA all worried about that affecting Arrington's dollars here, too.

    Not everything is so black and white. You have to look at everything. 

     



    Arrington got a better deal than Talib for crying out loud...this isnt a case of the market being flooded...numerous CB's got much better deals...

     

    Smith 3/$18

    Houston 5/$25

    Lewis 5/$26

    Williams 3/$17

    Robinson 3/$15

    McKelvin 4/$20

    Toler 3/$15

    Why was everyone scared off Talib?

    If you recall I posted Yates (not me) said Arrington would get 3/$15 (he got 4/$16). Smith getting 3/$18 was what I thought Talib was worth, him getting 1/$4.8 raises flags for me.

    Didnt the "market" say Ras was going to be injury prone, yet the Pats spent a #2? Didnt the "market" say Wilson was a late round draft choice, but the Pats spent a #2? Now the "market" seems to be saying stay away from Talib at any cost.

     




    Sean Smith's deal is actually a 1 year deal if he so chooses to walk away.  So, Smith for 6, Talib for 5. I actually feel Talib is more talented with the better skill set than Smith.

     

    Your last paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

    As for Arrington, teams need strong nickels and he has earned security here, plus he took a backloaded deal to offset the flat cap in 2013 and 2014. That's what I call loyalty and only 8.25 is guaranteed so it's a fair deal on both sides.

    In the end, I told you nor more than 6 per for him once all these other CBs got released due to other teams' cap mismanagement.

    No offense, but all the players you are referencing arent as good as Talib. Chris Houston, are you kidding me? Detroit's Marty Mayhew just gave Reggie Bush big time money to be an every down back for his second year in a row, 1 year older. He'll be digned up by Week 8.

    I would not reference other team's stupidity and overpaying in a flooded market as a good thing.

    BB knew the market, had the leverag and nailed it.  You, meanwhile, show yourself to be a maroon on the cap debates here constantly.

    Basically, anything you say with regards to predictions in these areas, take the opposite opinion from your horrendous analysis.

    By the way, who was the nickelback that you felt would hurt us resigning Arrington and the maket on Talib?  I forget who used. I supposed I could go find the thread, but you were wrong a week ago and you're still wrong now.

    Just forget it Mr Tufts and Mr Harvard MBA. I've destroyed you in all of this 10 times over. Ask the board.

     



    you dont understand Arringtons deal. He has an AAV of about $4 and change...he is getting $500k less than Talib for ALL 4 YEARS! UNDERSTAND THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE!

    You just said all the CB's I listed are worse than Talib, right? So why didnt a single team offer Talib a deal better than 1/$4.8?

    BB didnt read a flooded market. BB read that NO ONE WOULD OFFER TALIB A CONTRACT...why would no one offer Talib a contract except BB?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to TheTinMan's comment:

    I think the money and the GP bonus also reflect that the guy hasn't played a complete season in something like 3 years due to injuries.




    Tin man has it. Even when he played his hip bothered him. Hip injuries can reoccur at any time.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    I also think the days of paying CBs 10+M are over which is why I am surprised anyone is interested in trading for Revis who still believes he is signing for 15M after this year. The 2012 highest paid CBs -

    1. Champ Bailey - 11.5M - restructure?

    2. Revis - 11.43M - on trading block

    3. Nnamdi - 11M - cut

    4. Hall - 9.8M - cut

    5. Gamble - 9.75M - cut

    With the number and quality of cbs available and a flat cap the highest paid CB to date is 6M/yr I believe. I expect that will not be broken or if it is not by much with the remaining FAs.

    Interestingly, the franchise tag number for CB will probably go down next year!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    Based on reported guarantee and reported signing bonus this looks like:

    6.5M signing, year 1=1M, year 2=1M = 8.5M guaranteed. Year 3 =3M, year 4 = 4.5M

    Cap hit yr 1 and 2 = about 2.75M/yr.

     



    His cap hit is diffence than his AAV. Due to his signing bonus and guarantee his AAV is approx $4.2M per year.

     

    If they cut him after year 1 he is guaranteed $8.5m. AAV is $8.5

    If they cut him after year 2 he is still guaranteed $8.5m . AAV is $4.25

    If they cut him after year 3 he will have rcvd year 1 $$2.6, year 2 $2.6, year 3 $6.2. AAV $3.8

    If he plays all 4 years, his 4th year salary is $6.1m . His AAV for the life of the contract is $4.22

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    I also think the days of paying CBs 10+M are over which is why I am surprised anyone is interested in trading for Revis who still believes he is signing for 15M after this year. The 2012 highest paid CBs -

    1. Champ Bailey - 11.5M - restructure?

    2. Revis - 11.43M - on trading block

    3. Nnamdi - 11M - cut

    4. Hall - 9.8M - cut

    5. Gamble - 9.75M - cut

    With the number and quality of cbs available and a flat cap the highest paid CB to date is 6M/yr I believe. I expect that will not be broken or if it is not by much with the remaining FAs.

    Interestingly, the franchise tag number for CB will probably go down next year!

     




    Exactly. Teams overpaid CBs in a passing league pre lockout. Note the teams who paid them:

     

    Jets, Skins, Panthers, Eagles

    All fired GMs or GMs that had their power removed (Shanahan).

    Not a coincidence. They're being paid less becuase they were wildly overpaid in 2009 and the cap is the same now as it was then. They got caught.

    Why this is still confusing for people like RKarp, Mt HUrl, etc, I have no idea. The cap is alive and well and basic rules of supply and demand apply to Talib.

    His off field behavioral issues are major red flag, but this is a much better locker room with structure than TB and one of the best locker rooms every year, year in and year out.

    His agent knows this and with a flooded, soft market, HE can be in control as a FA in 2014 with a great season in the best environment he has access to.

    Both sides win. BB wins, the team wins and Talib makes the right choice. One the market flooded, that 8.9 tag# became completely bloated and overpriced.




    Can you list the GM's who aren't coaches that haven't been fired? Or haven't been shown the door in some way, shape, or form? My point is most of them get fired - usually because they fail to acquire a quarterback like our's who bails them out all the time. In our division alone there has been 10 different gms hired and fired over the last ten years...I guess all these highly intelligent and educated people are just stupid, huh? Got nothing to do with the fact they had to face Tom Brady for a decade, right?

    Hey, did you figure out what round Cannon was drafted in yet? Or how about why Denver can't just resign Dumervil for 8 million? 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    I also think the days of paying CBs 10+M are over which is why I am surprised anyone is interested in trading for Revis who still believes he is signing for 15M after this year. The 2012 highest paid CBs -

    1. Champ Bailey - 11.5M - restructure?

    2. Revis - 11.43M - on trading block

    3. Nnamdi - 11M - cut

    4. Hall - 9.8M - cut

    5. Gamble - 9.75M - cut

    With the number and quality of cbs available and a flat cap the highest paid CB to date is 6M/yr I believe. I expect that will not be broken or if it is not by much with the remaining FAs.

    Interestingly, the franchise tag number for CB will probably go down next year!

     




    Exactly. Teams overpaid CBs in a passing league pre lockout. Note the teams who paid them:

     

    Jets, Skins, Panthers, Eagles

    All fired GMs or GMs that had their power removed (Shanahan).

    Not a coincidence. They're being paid less becuase they were wildly overpaid in 2009 and the cap is the same now as it was then. They got caught.

    Why this is still confusing for people like RKarp, Mt HUrl, etc, I have no idea. The cap is alive and well and basic rules of supply and demand apply to Talib.

    His off field behavioral issues are major red flag, but this is a much better locker room with structure than TB and one of the best locker rooms every year, year in and year out.

    His agent knows this and with a flooded, soft market, HE can be in control as a FA in 2014 with a great season in the best environment he has access to.

    Both sides win. BB wins, the team wins and Talib makes the right choice. One the market flooded, that 8.9 tag# became completely bloated and overpriced.



    yet the Texans paid Joseph $11m and went to the playoffs, the Rams paid Finnegan $15M and went from 2 wins to 7 wins, and the Bengals paid Hall $9m and went to the playoffs. Hi salaried guys getting cut are not CB centric. Please.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    So, Arrington was over paid, and Talib paid about right for a often injured cb with character issues?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    I told ya.  YOu just want to learn.  The market is FLOODED, especially with CBs. The question was, how many.  Well, we found out. Philly alone cut two quality starters for crying out loud.

    Throw in, the fact that both Talib and BB know his best bet is a fit here in this structured environment and it's a smart move, which means BB had a lot of leverage.

    I told you this.

    You went running in here slapping up numbers for nicelbacks the first day of FA all worried about that affecting Arrington's dollars here, too.

    Not everything is so black and white. You have to look at everything. 

     



    Arrington got a better deal than Talib for crying out loud...this isnt a case of the market being flooded...numerous CB's got much better deals...

     

    Smith 3/$18

    Houston 5/$25

    Lewis 5/$26

    Williams 3/$17

    Robinson 3/$15

    McKelvin 4/$20

    Toler 3/$15

    Why was everyone scared off Talib?

    If you recall I posted Yates (not me) said Arrington would get 3/$15 (he got 4/$16). Smith getting 3/$18 was what I thought Talib was worth, him getting 1/$4.8 raises flags for me.

    Didnt the "market" say Ras was going to be injury prone, yet the Pats spent a #2? Didnt the "market" say Wilson was a late round draft choice, but the Pats spent a #2? Now the "market" seems to be saying stay away from Talib at any cost.

     




    Sean Smith's deal is actually a 1 year deal if he so chooses to walk away.  So, Smith for 6, Talib for 5. I actually feel Talib is more talented with the better skill set than Smith.

     

    Your last paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

    As for Arrington, teams need strong nickels and he has earned security here, plus he took a backloaded deal to offset the flat cap in 2013 and 2014. That's what I call loyalty and only 8.25 is guaranteed so it's a fair deal on both sides.

    In the end, I told you nor more than 6 per for him once all these other CBs got released due to other teams' cap mismanagement.

    No offense, but all the players you are referencing arent as good as Talib. Chris Houston, are you kidding me? Detroit's Marty Mayhew just gave Reggie Bush big time money to be an every down back for his second year in a row, 1 year older. He'll be digned up by Week 8.

    I would not reference other team's stupidity and overpaying in a flooded market as a good thing.

    BB knew the market, had the leverag and nailed it.  You, meanwhile, show yourself to be a maroon on the cap debates here constantly.

    Basically, anything you say with regards to predictions in these areas, take the opposite opinion from your horrendous analysis.

    By the way, who was the nickelback that you felt would hurt us resigning Arrington and the maket on Talib?  I forget who used. I supposed I could go find the thread, but you were wrong a week ago and you're still wrong now.

    Just forget it Mr Tufts and Mr Harvard MBA. I've destroyed you in all of this 10 times over. Ask the board.

     

     



    you dont understand Arringtons deal. He has an AAV of about $4 and change...he is getting $500k less than Talib for ALL 4 YEARS! UNDERSTAND THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE!

     

    You just said all the CB's I listed are worse than Talib, right? So why didnt a single team offer Talib a deal better than 1/$4.8?

    BB didnt read a flooded market. BB read that NO ONE WOULD OFFER TALIB A CONTRACT...why would no one offer Talib a contract except BB?

     




    My god are you dumb. Flooded market.  As for Arrington, he plays a valuable STs role as well.  When you're ranked the best nickel in the NFL in 2012, that's a strong point for Arrington.  He's very good in the slot and he's proven that, so that has good value. I am happy we got him back. I am sure some teams would have loved to swipe him away. Baltimore being one. He's from Marlyand and Webb will be moved to outside CB now with their exodus.

     

    I don't get why this is so confusing for you, then again, you try to spin, spin and spin some more because you lost.

    BB absolutely knew the market would be flooded which is why he didn't tag Talib.  No one was sure if all these CBs would actually be released with the flat cap and franchises getting caught, but they did, because they got caught.

    Kraft new what the real new CBA would be the whole time and fed this info to BB. I told you this as it was going in in early/summer 2011 when I told you what the real reason for the lockout. The main reason was cap control over the life of the CBA, which meant it might be a few years before they like what they see before bumping the cap. 

    I would not be surprised at all if they have assistants, maybe Caserio does it, who study other team's financials from year to year so they can guesstimate who a team might cut or ask to restructure, using that was a way to get leverage in negotiations with Patriots FA players or targeted FAs. Would not be shocked at all. I did it just out of curiosity because when BB dealt Seymour, Vrable, etc, and traded into 2010 and 2011's draft like that so heavily, I knew something was up.

    Meanwhile, all the teams that are cutting CBs right now are the ones who wildly spent.  NOs didn't care. They had been crappy for 40 years. Good for them, but they'll pay now.  Pitt, NYGs, Baltimore are all caught up in having older teams with 2 years left before the cap goes up. They're cooked. They couldn't quite make it.  Baltimore barely did. Congrats to them, just like the Saints.

    Jets and Skins? The worst examples. Same with the Cowboys. Crappy contracts, overpaying oni the market, wild decision making, etc.

    Remember Marty Hurney giving Jake Delhomme that new deal after a 5 INTs game in the 2008 playoffs? Gee, I wonder why Marty Hurney is unemployed?  He also got nothing for Peppers in 2009 knowing he was just renting him for a year.

    Dude, BB is WAY, WAY above you in all of this. Way above you.

    They knew the cap wouldn't move from 2011-2014 seasons. This is not hard.  You claim to have an MBA from Harvard, but it's impossible. There is no way on god's green earth you even have an undergrad degree.

    The whole reason why I called you out in here about 2-3 years ago and sniffed you out as an ESPN employee, is because your analysis sounds totally canned like an ESPN's anti-BB employee's would.

    You lost 2-3 years ago raving about how great Tannenbum was when I called you out on it then and you lose now.

    BB actually offered Talib many different contracts, one a 5 year deal. Also, it was reported 3 or 4 other clubs were in on him as well. The Skins were one we know of.  Not sure on the others.

    So, Talib looked at all his options and his agent wisely suggested to have a great year and see if the market improves. I would have done a 2 year deal myself to bridge it until 2015, but that's another story.

     



    so Arrington is worth $4.2 per year while Talib is worth $4.8? thats what you are saying correct?

    the 5 year deal offered Talib was only 1 year guaranteed.

    Btw, you are wrong about Smiths contract (I get it, you have no clue on salaries and the cap). He got a $6.7M bonus. If the Chiefs cut him after 1 year, they will have almost $8M in dead money. Highly doubt they cut him. If they cut him after year 2 Smth gets $11M.

    So Talib is better than Smith, yet no one wanted to pay Talib. Why?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    So, Arrington was over paid, and Talib paid about right for a often injured cb with character issues?




    yet we are supposed to be "giddy" that BB is a genius outsmarting the entire league.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    I think some of you are also forgetting that Talib was dumped by the team that drafted him because they couldn't stand him anymore and he hasn't played that great. I have a feeling that if we still had our 5th or 6th roud picks we could have had him for one of those. Nobody wanted him and if he screwed up with us he was probably out of the league. So he ended up coming here and keeping his nose clean which was good. He played pretty well when he was on the field, but his injuries happened again. So if nobody wanted him a few months ago he didn't do that much to make people want him now. 

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    I also think the days of paying CBs 10+M are over which is why I am surprised anyone is interested in trading for Revis who still believes he is signing for 15M after this year. The 2012 highest paid CBs -

    1. Champ Bailey - 11.5M - restructure?

    2. Revis - 11.43M - on trading block

    3. Nnamdi - 11M - cut

    4. Hall - 9.8M - cut

    5. Gamble - 9.75M - cut

    With the number and quality of cbs available and a flat cap the highest paid CB to date is 6M/yr I believe. I expect that will not be broken or if it is not by much with the remaining FAs.

    Interestingly, the franchise tag number for CB will probably go down next year!

     




    Exactly. Teams overpaid CBs in a passing league pre lockout. Note the teams who paid them:

     

    Jets, Skins, Panthers, Eagles

    All fired GMs or GMs that had their power removed (Shanahan).

    Not a coincidence. They're being paid less becuase they were wildly overpaid in 2009 and the cap is the same now as it was then. They got caught.

    Why this is still confusing for people like RKarp, Mt HUrl, etc, I have no idea. The cap is alive and well and basic rules of supply and demand apply to Talib.

    His off field behavioral issues are major red flag, but this is a much better locker room with structure than TB and one of the best locker rooms every year, year in and year out.

    His agent knows this and with a flooded, soft market, HE can be in control as a FA in 2014 with a great season in the best environment he has access to.

    Both sides win. BB wins, the team wins and Talib makes the right choice. One the market flooded, that 8.9 tag# became completely bloated and overpriced.

     




    Can you list the GM's who aren't coaches that haven't been fired? Or haven't been shown the door in some way, shape, or form? My point is most of them get fired - usually because they fail to acquire a quarterback like our's who bails them out all the time. In our division alone there has been 10 different gms hired and fired over the last ten years...I guess all these highly intelligent and educated people are just stupid, huh? Got nothing to do with the fact they had to face Tom Brady for a decade, right?

     

    Hey, did you figure out what round Cannon was drafted in yet? Or how about why Denver can't just resign Dumervil for 8 million? 

     




     

    Nah. Not good enough. PCIV called you on that earlier today, too. Plus, BB drafted Brady. Of course having a QB helps. 

    Mickey Loomis may not be fired yet, but he will be soon. Andy Reid took the fall for Roseman in Philly, Hurney, Tannenbum, Jerry Jones is  a looney.

    Colbert, Reese and Ozzie are good GMs, but all got caught up. Ozzie is lucky Kaepernick choked 4 times from the 5 yard line. 

    It's a 53 man roster. It's not just only about having an elite QB. Flacco just won a SB for crying out loud.

    And yes, I believe Cannon was a 5th rd pick. Dumervil is weighing offers from Denver and Baltimore.

    Anything else, Cupcake?

    Good. Now go fill those muffin tins.




    Did you just say it's about a 53 man roster and not only about having an elite QB?

    WOW, just wow!  Hello?  Earth to rusty, that's what we've been telling you for years!

    Hallelujah, Praise the lord! 

    Oh, wait, is this just one of your many contradictions used exclusively to defend BB at the moment?  Sorry!  It applies or it doesn't.  You can't have it both ways.  Doesn't just apply to building a team it applies to playing every game.

    Jeeze, glad we finally got that out of the way, even if it did take 3 years.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    I told ya.  YOu just want to learn.  The market is FLOODED, especially with CBs. The question was, how many.  Well, we found out. Philly alone cut two quality starters for crying out loud.

    Throw in, the fact that both Talib and BB know his best bet is a fit here in this structured environment and it's a smart move, which means BB had a lot of leverage.

    I told you this.

    You went running in here slapping up numbers for nicelbacks the first day of FA all worried about that affecting Arrington's dollars here, too.

    Not everything is so black and white. You have to look at everything. 

     



    Arrington got a better deal than Talib for crying out loud...this isnt a case of the market being flooded...numerous CB's got much better deals...

     

    Smith 3/$18

    Houston 5/$25

    Lewis 5/$26

    Williams 3/$17

    Robinson 3/$15

    McKelvin 4/$20

    Toler 3/$15

    Why was everyone scared off Talib?

    If you recall I posted Yates (not me) said Arrington would get 3/$15 (he got 4/$16). Smith getting 3/$18 was what I thought Talib was worth, him getting 1/$4.8 raises flags for me.

    Didnt the "market" say Ras was going to be injury prone, yet the Pats spent a #2? Didnt the "market" say Wilson was a late round draft choice, but the Pats spent a #2? Now the "market" seems to be saying stay away from Talib at any cost.

     




    Sean Smith's deal is actually a 1 year deal if he so chooses to walk away.  So, Smith for 6, Talib for 5. I actually feel Talib is more talented with the better skill set than Smith.

     

    Your last paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

    As for Arrington, teams need strong nickels and he has earned security here, plus he took a backloaded deal to offset the flat cap in 2013 and 2014. That's what I call loyalty and only 8.25 is guaranteed so it's a fair deal on both sides.

    In the end, I told you nor more than 6 per for him once all these other CBs got released due to other teams' cap mismanagement.

    No offense, but all the players you are referencing arent as good as Talib. Chris Houston, are you kidding me? Detroit's Marty Mayhew just gave Reggie Bush big time money to be an every down back for his second year in a row, 1 year older. He'll be digned up by Week 8.

    I would not reference other team's stupidity and overpaying in a flooded market as a good thing.

    BB knew the market, had the leverag and nailed it.  You, meanwhile, show yourself to be a maroon on the cap debates here constantly.

    Basically, anything you say with regards to predictions in these areas, take the opposite opinion from your horrendous analysis.

    By the way, who was the nickelback that you felt would hurt us resigning Arrington and the maket on Talib?  I forget who used. I supposed I could go find the thread, but you were wrong a week ago and you're still wrong now.

    Just forget it Mr Tufts and Mr Harvard MBA. I've destroyed you in all of this 10 times over. Ask the board.

     

     



    you dont understand Arringtons deal. He has an AAV of about $4 and change...he is getting $500k less than Talib for ALL 4 YEARS! UNDERSTAND THE CONTRACT LANGUAGE!

     

    You just said all the CB's I listed are worse than Talib, right? So why didnt a single team offer Talib a deal better than 1/$4.8?

    BB didnt read a flooded market. BB read that NO ONE WOULD OFFER TALIB A CONTRACT...why would no one offer Talib a contract except BB?

     




    My god are you dumb. Flooded market.  As for Arrington, he plays a valuable STs role as well.  When you're ranked the best nickel in the NFL in 2012, that's a strong point for Arrington.  He's very good in the slot and he's proven that, so that has good value. I am happy we got him back. I am sure some teams would have loved to swipe him away. Baltimore being one. He's from Marlyand and Webb will be moved to outside CB now with their exodus.

     

    I don't get why this is so confusing for you, then again, you try to spin, spin and spin some more because you lost.

    BB absolutely knew the market would be flooded which is why he didn't tag Talib.  No one was sure if all these CBs would actually be released with the flat cap and franchises getting caught, but they did, because they got caught.

    Kraft new what the real new CBA would be the whole time and fed this info to BB. I told you this as it was going in in early/summer 2011 when I told you what the real reason for the lockout. The main reason was cap control over the life of the CBA, which meant it might be a few years before they like what they see before bumping the cap. 

    I would not be surprised at all if they have assistants, maybe Caserio does it, who study other team's financials from year to year so they can guesstimate who a team might cut or ask to restructure, using that was a way to get leverage in negotiations with Patriots FA players or targeted FAs. Would not be shocked at all. I did it just out of curiosity because when BB dealt Seymour, Vrable, etc, and traded into 2010 and 2011's draft like that so heavily, I knew something was up.

    Meanwhile, all the teams that are cutting CBs right now are the ones who wildly spent.  NOs didn't care. They had been crappy for 40 years. Good for them, but they'll pay now.  Pitt, NYGs, Baltimore are all caught up in having older teams with 2 years left before the cap goes up. They're cooked. They couldn't quite make it.  Baltimore barely did. Congrats to them, just like the Saints.

    Jets and Skins? The worst examples. Same with the Cowboys. Crappy contracts, overpaying oni the market, wild decision making, etc.

    Remember Marty Hurney giving Jake Delhomme that new deal after a 5 INTs game in the 2008 playoffs? Gee, I wonder why Marty Hurney is unemployed?  He also got nothing for Peppers in 2009 knowing he was just renting him for a year.

    Dude, BB is WAY, WAY above you in all of this. Way above you.

    They knew the cap wouldn't move from 2011-2014 seasons. This is not hard.  You claim to have an MBA from Harvard, but it's impossible. There is no way on god's green earth you even have an undergrad degree.

    The whole reason why I called you out in here about 2-3 years ago and sniffed you out as an ESPN employee, is because your analysis sounds totally canned like an ESPN's anti-BB employee's would.

    You lost 2-3 years ago raving about how great Tannenbum was when I called you out on it then and you lose now.

    BB actually offered Talib many different contracts, one a 5 year deal. Also, it was reported 3 or 4 other clubs were in on him as well. The Skins were one we know of.  Not sure on the others.

    So, Talib looked at all his options and his agent wisely suggested to have a great year and see if the market improves. I would have done a 2 year deal myself to bridge it until 2015, but that's another story.

     

     



    so Arrington is worth $4.2 per year while Talib is worth $4.8? thats what you are saying correct?

     

    the 5 year deal offered Talib was only 1 year guaranteed.

    Btw, you are wrong about Smiths contract (I get it, you have no clue on salaries and the cap). He got a $6.7M bonus. If the Chiefs cut him after 1 year, they will have almost $8M in dead money. Highly doubt they cut him. If they cut him after year 2 Smth gets $11M.

    So Talib is better than Smith, yet no one wanted to pay Talib. Why?

     



    The Smith deal is similar to Welker's situaiton. Why would you pay a guy the second year if the market doesn't support it? It won't, each GM will realize it and they'll be released.

     

    What are Talib's and Arrington's cap hits in 2013?

    Answer that.

    lol

    This stuff is so far over your head, you just keep walking into walls over and over.



    Arrington cap hit about $2.75

    Talib cap hit about $4.85

    Aron AAV about $4.2M. Talib AAV $4.85. Wow....No one wanted Talib and the Pats over paid for Arrington. Genius.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

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    I also think the days of paying CBs 10+M are over which is why I am surprised anyone is interested in trading for Revis who still believes he is signing for 15M after this year. The 2012 highest paid CBs -

    1. Champ Bailey - 11.5M - restructure?

    2. Revis - 11.43M - on trading block

    3. Nnamdi - 11M - cut

    4. Hall - 9.8M - cut

    5. Gamble - 9.75M - cut

    With the number and quality of cbs available and a flat cap the highest paid CB to date is 6M/yr I believe. I expect that will not be broken or if it is not by much with the remaining FAs.

    Interestingly, the franchise tag number for CB will probably go down next year!

     




    Exactly. Teams overpaid CBs in a passing league pre lockout. Note the teams who paid them:

     

    Jets, Skins, Panthers, Eagles

    All fired GMs or GMs that had their power removed (Shanahan).

    Not a coincidence. They're being paid less becuase they were wildly overpaid in 2009 and the cap is the same now as it was then. They got caught.

    Why this is still confusing for people like RKarp, Mt HUrl, etc, I have no idea. The cap is alive and well and basic rules of supply and demand apply to Talib.

    His off field behavioral issues are major red flag, but this is a much better locker room with structure than TB and one of the best locker rooms every year, year in and year out.

    His agent knows this and with a flooded, soft market, HE can be in control as a FA in 2014 with a great season in the best environment he has access to.

    Both sides win. BB wins, the team wins and Talib makes the right choice. One the market flooded, that 8.9 tag# became completely bloated and overpriced.

     




    Can you list the GM's who aren't coaches that haven't been fired? Or haven't been shown the door in some way, shape, or form? My point is most of them get fired - usually because they fail to acquire a quarterback like our's who bails them out all the time. In our division alone there has been 10 different gms hired and fired over the last ten years...I guess all these highly intelligent and educated people are just stupid, huh? Got nothing to do with the fact they had to face Tom Brady for a decade, right?

     

    Hey, did you figure out what round Cannon was drafted in yet? Or how about why Denver can't just resign Dumervil for 8 million? 

     




     

    Nah. Not good enough. PCIV called you on that earlier today, too. Plus, BB drafted Brady. Of course having a QB helps. 

    Mickey Loomis may not be fired yet, but he will be soon. Andy Reid took the fall for Roseman in Philly, Hurney, Tannenbum, Jerry Jones is  a looney.

    Colbert, Reese and Ozzie are good GMs, but all got caught up. Ozzie is lucky Kaepernick choked 4 times from the 5 yard line. 

    It's a 53 man roster. It's not just only about having an elite QB. Flacco just won a SB for crying out loud.

    And yes, I believe Cannon was a 5th rd pick. Dumervil is weighing offers from Denver and Baltimore.

    Anything else, Cupcake?

    Good. Now go fill those muffin tins.

     




    Did you just say it's about a 53 man roster and not only about having an elite QB?

     

    WOW, just wow!  Hello?  Earth to rusty, that's what we've been telling you for years!

    Hallelujah, Praise the lord! 

    Oh, wait, is this just one of your many contradictions used exclusively to defend BB at the moment?  Sorry!  It applies or it doesn't.  You can't have it both ways.  Doesn't just apply to building a team it applies to playing every game.

    Jeeze, glad we finally got that out of the way, even if it did take 3 years.

     




    I've said that for years. BB's mastery within the cap framwork fielding quality teams year in and year out is legendary.

     

    You're the one who thinks if you sign a trendy FA every year and overpay, having it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside (lol), that IT is the reason why BB has let Brady down.

    Mazz today was ranting and raving about Greg Jennings. Greg Jennings didn't want to be here. He wanted the most money, so he leveraged Miami and Minny up against GB. He came right out and said he wanted to play in warmer weather or a dome.

    These are the kinds of things BB sniffs out. Once I read that from Jennings, I knew BB would never target him because he wanted the most money and wanted to play in a warm environment.

    These are the things that you don't get.  53 players, which means you need some depth, etc, are important.

    You also had no clue BB was rebuilding on the fly and Kraft just yesterday all but told us there were into the lockout.  LOL

     

     




    Well, there you go contradicting yourself again.  SHAME SHAME SHAME.

    You've been saying that for years yet you blame ONE SINGLE PLAYER for every loss.

    Now, really, does that make sense?  53>1

    It takes 53 (check)

    TB is the reason for the losses ( contradictory and ludicrous)

    Which one you gonna go with?  Can't have it both ways!

    Oh, do the bulk of the 18 FA's the Pats are passing on this year actually qualify as depth?

    Wonder why BB's passing on them this year?  Could it be they weren't very good and they need better.   Seems to be a pattern.   How about all the non FA's cut in the past 7 yrs?  Were they depth too?  Or just a waste of CAP?

    Kraft said yesterday that they need $$$$ to fix the D that they've been fixing on the fly for the past 5-6 years now.  Was he wrong there?  Or are you?

     

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