shocked at Talibs numbers

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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    How does 4/16 mil = 4.2 mil AAV?  Isn't it an even 4 mil? 

    As for Talib, the whole world knows his warts. He's missed a lot of games and he's a headcase. Not sure how anybody could be surprised he didn't get a lot of offers. 

    All the corners in this FA class were suspect. Sean Smith is not a better cover guy than McCourty was. He's just big and big corners are in vogue. Grimes is probably the best football player among the corners, but he has huge injury/age concerns. It's just a very mediocre group.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

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    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    I also think the days of paying CBs 10+M are over which is why I am surprised anyone is interested in trading for Revis who still believes he is signing for 15M after this year. The 2012 highest paid CBs -

    1. Champ Bailey - 11.5M - restructure?

    2. Revis - 11.43M - on trading block

    3. Nnamdi - 11M - cut

    4. Hall - 9.8M - cut

    5. Gamble - 9.75M - cut

    With the number and quality of cbs available and a flat cap the highest paid CB to date is 6M/yr I believe. I expect that will not be broken or if it is not by much with the remaining FAs.

    Interestingly, the franchise tag number for CB will probably go down next year!

     




    Exactly. Teams overpaid CBs in a passing league pre lockout. Note the teams who paid them:

     

    Jets, Skins, Panthers, Eagles

    All fired GMs or GMs that had their power removed (Shanahan).

    Not a coincidence. They're being paid less becuase they were wildly overpaid in 2009 and the cap is the same now as it was then. They got caught.

    Why this is still confusing for people like RKarp, Mt HUrl, etc, I have no idea. The cap is alive and well and basic rules of supply and demand apply to Talib.

    His off field behavioral issues are major red flag, but this is a much better locker room with structure than TB and one of the best locker rooms every year, year in and year out.

    His agent knows this and with a flooded, soft market, HE can be in control as a FA in 2014 with a great season in the best environment he has access to.

    Both sides win. BB wins, the team wins and Talib makes the right choice. One the market flooded, that 8.9 tag# became completely bloated and overpriced.

     




    Can you list the GM's who aren't coaches that haven't been fired? Or haven't been shown the door in some way, shape, or form? My point is most of them get fired - usually because they fail to acquire a quarterback like our's who bails them out all the time. In our division alone there has been 10 different gms hired and fired over the last ten years...I guess all these highly intelligent and educated people are just stupid, huh? Got nothing to do with the fact they had to face Tom Brady for a decade, right?

     

    Hey, did you figure out what round Cannon was drafted in yet? Or how about why Denver can't just resign Dumervil for 8 million? 

     




     

    Nah. Not good enough. PCIV called you on that earlier today, too. Plus, BB drafted Brady. Of course having a QB helps. 

    Mickey Loomis may not be fired yet, but he will be soon. Andy Reid took the fall for Roseman in Philly, Hurney, Tannenbum, Jerry Jones is  a looney.

    Colbert, Reese and Ozzie are good GMs, but all got caught up. Ozzie is lucky Kaepernick choked 4 times from the 5 yard line. 

    It's a 53 man roster. It's not just only about having an elite QB. Flacco just won a SB for crying out loud.

    And yes, I believe Cannon was a 5th rd pick. Dumervil is weighing offers from Denver and Baltimore.

    Anything else, Cupcake?

    Good. Now go fill those muffin tins.

     




    Did you just say it's about a 53 man roster and not only about having an elite QB?

     

    WOW, just wow!  Hello?  Earth to rusty, that's what we've been telling you for years!

    Hallelujah, Praise the lord! 

    Oh, wait, is this just one of your many contradictions used exclusively to defend BB at the moment?  Sorry!  It applies or it doesn't.  You can't have it both ways.  Doesn't just apply to building a team it applies to playing every game.

    Jeeze, glad we finally got that out of the way, even if it did take 3 years.

     




    I've said that for years. BB's mastery within the cap framwork fielding quality teams year in and year out is legendary.

     

    You're the one who thinks if you sign a trendy FA every year and overpay, having it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside (lol), that IT is the reason why BB has let Brady down.

    Mazz today was ranting and raving about Greg Jennings. Greg Jennings didn't want to be here. He wanted the most money, so he leveraged Miami and Minny up against GB. He came right out and said he wanted to play in warmer weather or a dome.

    These are the kinds of things BB sniffs out. Once I read that from Jennings, I knew BB would never target him because he wanted the most money and wanted to play in a warm environment.

    These are the things that you don't get.  53 players, which means you need some depth, etc, are important.

    You also had no clue BB was rebuilding on the fly and Kraft just yesterday all but told us there were into the lockout.  LOL

     

     

     




    Well, there you go contradicting yourself again.  SHAME SHAME SHAME.

     

    You've been saying that for years yet you blame ONE SINGLE PLAYER for every loss.

    Now, really, does that make sense?  53>1

    It takes 53 (check)

    TB is the reason for the losses ( contradictory and ludicrous)

    Which one you gonna go with?  Can't have it both ways!

    Oh, do the bulk of the 18 FA's the Pats are passing on this year actually qualify as depth?

    Wonder why BB's passing on them this year?  Could it be they weren't very good and they need better.   Seems to be a pattern.   How about all the non FA's cut in the past 7 yrs?  Were they depth too?  Or just a waste of CAP?

    Kraft said yesterday that they need $$$$ to fix the D that they've been fixing on the fly for the past 5-6 years now.  Was he wrong there?  Or are you?

     



    If I feel Brady didn't as play as well in those SBs or have data to back up his crappy AFC title games in 2007, 2011 or 2012, then that's that and I am not changing my opinion on it.

     

    The offense as a whole should be blamed, too. But, I cannot get it out of my head that he said: "I prefer the shotgun" on Dennis and Callahan in early 2010. 

    Then, we see the shotgun obsession in these losses and 40+ passes with leads!

    Ugh.

    The D is a lot better but they specifically chose to do it the way they did and to pounce on vets now v.s. on thr way into the lockout. I said that back in 2009 and 2010 when you morons wanted the most expensive FAs left and right and called Kraft "Cheap" and mock BB, even to this day.

    Look at your anger. You have Kraft cooroborating what I TOLD YOU and other obtuse people here 3 years ago into the lockout and you still won't accept that it was their plan, their strategic and methodical plan.

    BB and Kraft were right with it, I agreed with then and still do now.

    My lone disagreement is how Brady runs that offense. It had become far too one dimensional. Kraft said it again yesterday talking about the money invested into the mid field targets.

     

     




    Brady doesn't pick the formations or run the O.  There is a game plan.  The coaches call the plays the QB acts accordingly.  That's the way it works.

     

    BB is the HC and he approves the GP and also hires the coaches that instill it.  He has said himself that he will veto a play if he doesn't like it.

    You chose to ignore the basic concept of the game.

    It takes 53.  There are coaches that tell the 53 what to do.  No one answers to TB.  No one gives into his wishes and desires.  ( Kraft said that also, but somehow you dismiss that along with the teams other needs.)  Everyone is subject to BB's wishes and desires.  That's the way it works.   BB buys the groceries and if that includes sub-par players, well, that's on him.  If TB is sub par and he keeps him, well, that's also on him. 

    It starts at the top and no matter how much you protest, the teams short comings are a direct result of buying rotten and expired groceries and NOT the best player on the team.  52 other ingredients have to work too and as they say, one bad apple (or several in this case) ruin the bushel.   There are several bad apples in this pie and unfortunately their stink has ruined all the good apples and the whole pie.

    They use the shotgun on 48% of their plays because it produces results, not because TB prefers it. And who gives a flip if he does.  Many, many QB's do and it's popularity for obvious reasons, that escape you, has increased tremendously over the past decade.  TB has been in the shotgun since 2001.  The last game winning drive in the SB that year was 100% shotgun.  Didn't hear any complaints about it then.

    15 FA's and numerous others are leaving this year because they are no longer in the plans or just plain stink.

    This has been a revolving door of a team since 2005.  There is only one player they extended through 2017.  He obviously isn't the rotten apple. 

    If you think he is, then YOU think BB is a fool. 

    Can't have it both ways!

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    Yes, I disagree with how the offense was too finesse and became imbalanced. BB just walked away from Welkie, Brady's binky, the millisecond FA opened.

    Amendola signifies they realize it can't be all about Welker as the center of Brady's preferred shotgun spread anymore.  Shame on BB for not fixing it in milliseconds to appeas pink helmets like you though, right?

    That tells me he agrees with me and what I've been saying.  I thought it was fixed in 2010 with the new TEs, he probably did too, but it wasn't good enough.

    Them walking away from Welker sort of showcases the problem as it being addressed, which is a huge relief.  Moss was 1 relief, Welker the second part of it. Two SBs, not good enough.

    They only wanted Welker back with lesser money.  Welker doesn't get that he is being targeted too much and the offense is immediately imbalanced if 1 other preferred target isn't available.

    Spread the money around more. Brady and Welker are buddies. Apparently too good a pair of buds.

    I can have it both ways because I don't agree with every move BB does.  I didn't agree overpaying Mankins, hate our shotgun spread, but the shotgun does happen to be Brady's preference, so BB needs to stop listening to Brady's opinions or preferences. Yes.

    Been saying it for a while now.  Hopefully, walking from Welkie does that for the TEAM.

    Also, in the AFC title game, the shotgun appears to be a LOT more than "48%".

    If you're at a 70% pass clip and 55% of that is shotgun, that's an outrageously imbalanced number.

    God forbid we see Brady under center like we did in the Weis era. God forbid!

     




    Well it appears that BB wanted Welker to stay and not take away Brady's Best receiver.

    So you are wrong and misinterpret the facts again.

    He then went to his second choice for fear of having no one, so he hired a Welker clone with injuries.  That does not appear to be changing philosophy as much as it does covering one's azz and hoping for the best.

    It's kind of a shame they felt the need to spend the $$$ else ware, but ya, fixing the D is priority.  Hope they fix it for good this time cuz it sure is going to be tough scoring 40+ , points every game without a #1 receiver and a bad D.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    Yes, I disagree with how the offense was too finesse and became imbalanced. BB just walked away from Welkie, Brady's binky, the millisecond FA opened.

    Amendola signifies they realize it can't be all about Welker as the center of Brady's preferred shotgun spread anymore.  Shame on BB for not fixing it in milliseconds to appeas pink helmets like you though, right?

    That tells me he agrees with me and what I've been saying.  I thought it was fixed in 2010 with the new TEs, he probably did too, but it wasn't good enough.

    Them walking away from Welker sort of showcases the problem as it being addressed, which is a huge relief.  Moss was 1 relief, Welker the second part of it. Two SBs, not good enough.

    They only wanted Welker back with lesser money.  Welker doesn't get that he is being targeted too much and the offense is immediately imbalanced if 1 other preferred target isn't available.

    Spread the money around more. Brady and Welker are buddies. Apparently too good a pair of buds.

    I can have it both ways because I don't agree with every move BB does.  I didn't agree overpaying Mankins, hate our shotgun spread, but the shotgun does happen to be Brady's preference, so BB needs to stop listening to Brady's opinions or preferences. Yes.

    Been saying it for a while now.  Hopefully, walking from Welkie does that for the TEAM.

    Also, in the AFC title game, the shotgun appears to be a LOT more than "48%".

    If you're at a 70% pass clip and 55% of that is shotgun, that's an outrageously imbalanced number.

    God forbid we see Brady under center like we did in the Weis era. God forbid!

     

     




    Well it appears that BB wanted Welker to stay and not take away Brady's Best receiver.

     

    So you are wrong and misinterpret the facts again.

    He then went to his second choice for fear of having no one, so he hired a Welker clone with injuries.  That does not appear to be changing philosophy as much as it does covering one's azz and hoping for the best.

    It's kind of a shame they felt the need to spend the $$$ else ware, but ya, fixing the D is priority.  Hope they fix it for good this time cuz it sure is going to be tough scoring 40+ , points every game without a #1 receiver and a bad D.

     



    Depends on the time frame. That's not really true. When Kraft says "we wanted Wes back", it really means at their price. Not, unconditionally.

     

    That's what it means.

    When they didn't sign the deal, originally, that was pretty much it.    Wes was going going to need to call them up last Tuesday and basically say I am ready to win a ring. He wasn't ready to do it.

    He did not realize that NE's best offer, which I said here repeatedly was the one he got in 2011. Once that was rejected and BB put the money over to Gronk and Hernandez which is TWO players, that was sort of it for Welker's leverage.

    The problem is, he didn't realize this because his agent was greedy. 

    I think spending some money on the D in a bloated FA market is what BB set this up for off the lockout. Winning SB 46 was a bonus, but Brady collapsed badly in the 4th qtr.

    I am not wrong at all. I was the lone person on here calling this to the T 3 years ago.

    I can't control Brady's bad playoff games, nor can BB.

     




    Ya, at their price because they needed all the money they could get their hands on to fix the other half of the team and apparently their 27th ranked ST wasn't good enough either.

    WW was a cap casualty because of other pressing needs.(KRAFT)  You don't blow up a record setting offense for the he11 of it.  You improve it if possible by replacing unproductive players, but you sure as he11 don't blow it up.  Who is the #1 receiver now?  Pffft.

    Better hope and pray DA works out.  We shall see.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    I told ya.  YOu just want to learn.  The market is FLOODED, especially with CBs. The question was, how many.  Well, we found out. Philly alone cut two quality starters for crying out loud.

    Throw in, the fact that both Talib and BB know his best bet is a fit here in this structured environment and it's a smart move, which means BB had a lot of leverage.

    I told you this.

    You went running in here slapping up numbers for nicelbacks the first day of FA all worried about that affecting Arrington's dollars here, too.

    Not everything is so black and white. You have to look at everything. 

     



    Arrington got a better deal than Talib for crying out loud...this isnt a case of the market being flooded...numerous CB's got much better deals...

     

    Smith 3/$18

    Houston 5/$25

    Lewis 5/$26

    Williams 3/$17

    Robinson 3/$15

    McKelvin 4/$20

    Toler 3/$15

    Why was everyone scared off Talib?

    If you recall I posted Yates (not me) said Arrington would get 3/$15 (he got 4/$16). Smith getting 3/$18 was what I thought Talib was worth, him getting 1/$4.8 raises flags for me.

    Didnt the "market" say Ras was going to be injury prone, yet the Pats spent a #2? Didnt the "market" say Wilson was a late round draft choice, but the Pats spent a #2? Now the "market" seems to be saying stay away from Talib at any cost.




    I don't understand the Wilson jab, he played fairly well this year. They also picked up a great talent in Dennard in the 7 so I think it really worked out.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    BB didnt read a flooded market. BB read that NO ONE WOULD OFFER TALIB A CONTRACT...why would no one offer Talib a contract except BB?

    [/QUOTE]

    Rkarp its been widely reported that Talib had TWO other multi year offers on the table as well as one form the Patriots. He rejected all three multi year offers for this one year make good contract.

    Rusty-1

    Rkarp-0

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to rkarp's comment:


    as a Pats fan I am concerned that the Pats are squandering their well earned cap space on mediocre talent.

     



    As of now are the Pats better then they were last season?  Not on offense, still need a couple WR's and another OL (Vollmer).

    On D, a slight improvement.  Talib is back but they had him last season.  Wilson is new and a good addition but will he be a fulltime player?

    Kick return has improved.

    Still a long time to go before they take the field but they need to make some serious moves between now and then. 

     

     
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