shocked at Talibs numbers

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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    Again, these wil be tweak moves, not big momentus moves. It's sad you don't get how BB operates after all this time.

    Abraham, Sanders, resign Edelman.  Then you trade Mallett, maybe for Phil Taylor as a rumor, and whatever else you can get in the draft or with flooded market quality and cheap FA Moves for camp.

    Again, the market is flooded.

    Knee jerk Miami Dolphin overpays is why MIami still sucks. They sucked when they did it with Danbsy, Marshall, Bush, etc, and they'll be disappointed with those now, too.

     




    Lots of holes still to fill, a lot of talented players are off the board and the talented players left aren't going to be here, market flooded or not they will get the 2nd and 3rd teir guys regardless.  Thats they way BB does it and thats part of the problem.  Quantity over quality.

    I do not like the Donald Jones move, would have rather kept Lloyd, We all know I don't like the slot move due to past injury problems.  They now have Amendola, Jones, Gronk, Hernandez all big key parts of the offense all injury prone.  They let go 2 players (Lloyd and Welker) who played every game.  It's foolish to think there is no concern here.

    Even if they move AH81 around more in a receiver role, still need a good quality receiver or 2.  Any of those out there available?

     

     

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

     

    Again, these wil be tweak moves, not big momentus moves. It's sad you don't get how BB operates after all this time.

    Abraham, Sanders, resign Edelman.  Then you trade Mallett, maybe for Phil Taylor as a rumor, and whatever else you can get in the draft or with flooded market quality and cheap FA Moves for camp.

    Again, the market is flooded.

    Knee jerk Miami Dolphin overpays is why MIami still sucks. They sucked when they did it with Danbsy, Marshall, Bush, etc, and they'll be disappointed with those now, too.

     

     




     

    Lots of holes still to fill, a lot of talented players are off the board and the talented players left aren't going to be here, market flooded or not they will get the 2nd and 3rd teir guys regardless.  Thats they way BB does it and thats part of the problem.  Quantity over quality.

    I do not like the Donald Jones move, would have rather kept Lloyd, We all know I don't like the slot move due to past injury problems.  They now have Amendola, Jones, Gronk, Hernandez all big key parts of the offense all injury prone.  They let go 2 players (Lloyd and Welker) who played every game.  It's foolish to think there is no concern here.

    Even if they move AH81 around more in a receiver role, still need a good quality receiver or 2.  Any of those out there available?

     

     

     




    i agree on lloyd. i hope they re-sign him, but if they are able to get sanders and edelman, the lloyd move will make more sense. they may draft a receiver as well, although as it is looking, they may have to draft an o-lineman with their first rounder.

     

    if they are really in a bind, they will put hern at receiver and have gronk and ballard be the tight ends, along with hooma. not a horrible problem to have i guess, but i agree that they should get another good receiver.

    overall though, i like the direction this team is headed. the defense is young and improving, and with talib out there last year, they were very good. the offense is still going to put up points, regardless of what these chicken little people say. the most encouraging thing to me is that BB signed leon washington. this shows that he realizes special teams returns were a problem last year and it needs to be fixed.

    they still have some work to do, but like i said, they are headed in the right direction.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

     

    Again, these wil be tweak moves, not big momentus moves. It's sad you don't get how BB operates after all this time.

    Abraham, Sanders, resign Edelman.  Then you trade Mallett, maybe for Phil Taylor as a rumor, and whatever else you can get in the draft or with flooded market quality and cheap FA Moves for camp.

    Again, the market is flooded.

    Knee jerk Miami Dolphin overpays is why MIami still sucks. They sucked when they did it with Danbsy, Marshall, Bush, etc, and they'll be disappointed with those now, too.

     

     




     

    Lots of holes still to fill, a lot of talented players are off the board and the talented players left aren't going to be here, market flooded or not they will get the 2nd and 3rd teir guys regardless.  Thats they way BB does it and thats part of the problem.  Quantity over quality.

    I do not like the Donald Jones move, would have rather kept Lloyd, We all know I don't like the slot move due to past injury problems.  They now have Amendola, Jones, Gronk, Hernandez all big key parts of the offense all injury prone.  They let go 2 players (Lloyd and Welker) who played every game.  It's foolish to think there is no concern here.

    Even if they move AH81 around more in a receiver role, still need a good quality receiver or 2.  Any of those out there available?

     

     

     




    Dude. You're just not getting it.  Teams still are in negotiations with current quality WRs on rosters to restructure or take an all out paycut.

     

    Why do you think there are like 3 full waves of deep FA movement for the first time in a decade BEFORE the draft itself?

    I am telling you right now, BB has a plan. I would not be shocked if he has info on other team's plans in some way, because it doesn't make sense to cut Lloyd with that kind of a minimal cap hit and salary considering he just caught 75 balls for almost 1000 yards as Brady's 3rd or 4th choice on plays.

    I am not saying there isn't a concern, but you're out of your mind if you think BB is just randomly pissing in the wind here.

    Something is up. Welker gone, Sanders in for an interview, they bring in a high IQ route running young kid with some experience who caught 45 balls from Ryan Fitzpatrick who is now a back up.

    Read between the lines and leave the man crush for Welker at the door.

     




    Oh man, get off the man crush stuff, you are using that as a crutch now.  I have mentioned over and over that if Amendola can stay healthy then he will do well, I just don't like the injury issues.  Do you understand that!  Same with Jones, same with Talib and Gronk and AH81.  They are big concerns as they have neen issues the past few years and ended up really hurting the team.  Lloyd and Welker have not had those issues so I am talking about that because it factors in here!  You need to understand that and get off using your man crush crutch as a way of deflecting the injury concerns.

    We hope there is something is in the works with the receiver position and not another Ocho type signing.  You keep saying something is up and all these players are out there... Give me names!! Let's here some WR names that you think is possibly in the works that can come in and help this team.  You mention Sanders but really, he is more of a slot type receiver at 5"11 180 lbs instead of a bigger, physical outside guy.

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

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    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

     

    BB didnt read a flooded market. BB read that NO ONE WOULD OFFER TALIB A CONTRACT...why would no one offer Talib a contract except BB?

     



    Rkarp its been widely reported that Talib had TWO other multi year offers on the table as well as one form the Patriots. He rejected all three multi year offers for this one year make good contract.

     

    Rusty-1

    Rkarp-0

     



    so Talib took the worst deal? C'mon, no one does that. The Pats 5 year deal was 1 year guaranteed. Thas not a deal, thats a slap in the face.

     

    So every CB signed so far gets a multi year deal except Talib and DRC. Yet Talib is the best CB on the market?

    Rusty opines that BB played the market, was a genius, and which of BB's feet do I kiss first.  I see a CB that no one else wanted. All I ask is why is that? THe person or the player?

    Reid took on maybe the most toxic player of the past 10 years, Vick in Philly. He signed Smith for 3/$18. If Talib is better, why didnt he sign Talib for 3/$18?

     




    Corky, would you choose the Skins with no cap room, a QB with a blown out leg, horrible, thin upcoming drafts, a sketchy environment or NE?

     

    How is playing here worse than 95% of organizations?

    What planet are you on here?  You praise or downplay the Jets unmiitgated disaster and then question why a FA who calls NE "football heaven" 3 months ago, took a good strong market deal to play here?

    Why are you so dumb? What is it?

    Stop saying what you see, too. It's annoying. The facts are 3 other teams were in on Talib.  What you see in your little dusty crystal ball does not trump the facts.

     



    you have no clue what was reportedly offered by the other teams, and it was reported the Pats 5 year deal was actually a 1 year guarantee...

     

    Yes, I think Talib takes the most money wherever it is offered...only aged vets leave money on the table to play for the Pats

    So what you call "reading the market correctly"...I call no one else wanted him enough to make a legit offer. Says a lot about what the NFL thinks of the player (even your poster boy of over ratedness Landry secured a better deal)

     

     




    I do have a clue. The reports I read which I happen to believe were that Talib had aggressive offers, some as good as NE's. For example, BB offered Talib a combo of deals, one of them a 5 year deal. They also offered other multi year deal. Just read the reports.  I don't think they're made up, I think those are legit reports on the situation.

     

    The Skins were one team I read about that also did something similar. The report was that the deals were all very competitive.

    As for your "only aged vets leave money on the table" comment....I ask again, how can you be this dumb?

    THE MARKET IS FLOODED

    The logic behind all these CBs like Rodgers Cromartie, Talib, Sean Smith (it's a 1 year deal he can back out of himself), etc, is because their agents are adivising them to keep leverage (in their minds) to test the market again next year.  Make some sense, but it still incurs a risk.  It puts the onus on each CB to have a better year than they did in 2013 and to not get hurt.  Ok. We'll see.

    Personally, I feel it's a fine move if you don't want to commit to one franchise and aren't happy with the deals right now during this flooded market, but I also don't feel the market will open up next year.  I think these CBs will not see what they want to see after 2013. Just my gut feeling on it.

    All you have to do is look at the amount of teams who don't have key players locked down and HOW close they are to the cap struggling right now, and then look at who the CB FAs are in 2014.

    http://www.overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=CB&Year=2014

    If you look that list, that's a weaker crop, but if all these remaining CBs also sign a 1 yer deal and do the same thing, they're all FAs again in 2014, flooding the market yet again. And, that doens't even count camp cuts thay may still come due to refusing to restructure or cuts after this season due to a team's cap problem.

    There is a cap, it exists, MANY teams are in a hell right now as we speak and will be in 2014, too. I don't care how many times you and dopey Mt Hurl try to team up and downplay the cap and how bad BB is and all this garbage. You lost many times over.

    Please learn about markets, economics and supply and demand. There is no way on go'd green earth that you have a degree from Tufts or an MBA from Harvard. Those are absolute lies by you because I should not be more intelligent than you with having less presitigious degrees.

    I hope you are enjoying today's bludgeoning.

     

     



    7 CB's signed deals for at least 3/$15 including Arrington. Talib did not because one was not offered....

     

    You can call that a glut. I call it mediocrity.

    The Skins offer was very weak from what I have read. Also what I have read, the Pats 5 year deal was actually a one year guarantee. I have not seen anything concrete on a 3rd team.

    Face it...no one wanted this guy other than the Pats.

     



    That's false.

     

    By Gregg Rosenthal Published: March 16, 2013 at 9:00 AM Modified: March 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

     

    The New England Patriots patiently stayed out of the active cornerback market in free agency because they wanted to bring back Aqib Talib. On Saturday, they got their man.

    Talib will return to the Patriots on a one-year contract, according to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport. NFL.com's Albert Breer reported, per a source, that Talib will earn $5 million in the deal.

    Talib decided to sign the one-year contract rather than a five-year pact in hopes of cashing in afterward, Rapoport and Breer reported. The cornerback passed on three other options to remain on the Patriots.

    Concerns about Talib's off-the-field behavior depressed his market in an already soft cornerback market. He didn't get the long-term contract he wanted or even a big one-year figure. For the Patriots, $5 million is a relative bargain.

    Breer reported that Talib had interest from three other teams and a five-year deal on the table from the Patriots. But Talib didn't want to take a long-term offer in this market. Like so many others during this free agency period, Talib will "bet on himself" and hope that he improves his free-agent value with a strong season.

    Talib was the Patriots' best cornerback after arriving in a trade with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in a trade, but that's not saying much. He still gave up a lot of big plays overall. The Patriots also brought back Kyle Arrington on a four-year deal, so their secondary might not have a lot of huge changes in 2013. Safety Patrick Chung left for the Philadelphia Eagles, and the Patriots signed veteran Adrian Wilson to replace him.

    Still, Talib was the key piece to it all. The Washington Redskins were interested in Talib because they have his former coach, Raheem Morris, on staff. Talib is the most talented cornerback the Patriots have had since Asante Samuel. Bill Belichick gets another year to bring that talent out of Talib.

    Follow Gregg Rosenthal on Twitter @greggrosenthal.

     

    You have this nasty habit of not knowing when you've been bludgeoned.

     



    I repeat, one team has publically had interest in Talib other than the Pats, and that was the Skins.

     


    I also repeat, the Pats 5 year offer was in fact a 1 year guarantee...

    You have repeatedly mentioned Breer is a hack who has no clue

    I dont even know what you are arguing with me about? These are the facts...Talib signed a 1 year deal at $4.8M. HE HAD NO BETTER OFFERS!!! 8 other CB's signed better deals!!!

    In theory, Arrington signed a better contract...more guaranteed $$$'s

    Why wasnt any other team willing to offer Talib more than 1/$4.8?

     



    The Skins were the only team to be confirmed, but it's clear there was other interest from multiple teams.

     

    As for Breer and me not liking him, yes, he had an agenda against BB while here and is a swarmy, little entitled know it all, but he does have contacts and solid info.  Talib was ranked as one of the highest rated CBs available and for good reason. As I predicted his off field issues are a red flag for some teams who may not feel they can corral him. BB tried him out last year, feels he can corral him, they like him, and that's that.

    If you're suggesting Talib's agent is dropping in falsified stories about demand, then I am not buying it.

    Arrington is a safer bet and is wise to secure guaranteed money which is essentially spread out over 3 years, not 4. BB can cut Arrington after 2015 and not have to pay the full 16 million.

    Also, Talib CHOSE the 1 year deal and if he blows out his leg, he would have made a mistake, wouldn;t he?

    You keep changing your arguments back and forth, when a legit Pats fan would see the big picture for both signings. 

    It cannot be debated that the Talib deal is team friendly. Secondly, with the idea Arrington is very good in the slot, we just lost an AFC Title game because Mqrwuice Cole wasn't, his deal is in no way bloated.

    BB improved the defense TWO FOLD in one shot. Talib. Check. Arrington in the slot for at least 3 more season in his prime. Check.

    Rodgers Cromartie, Sean Smith, Talib, and whoever else

    Also, I don't care what other teams do in terms of being dumb and overpaying. The guys who signed longer term and better deals a also went to moron, desperate franchises right nowl like the Lions and Saints. The fact you are using them as examples, means I win again.  BB wisely used his leverage and has been masterful setting this up into 2013 and 2014.

    Masterful.

    Wait until Abraham signs, Sanders gets in here (possibly), they have another good draft and he signs good vets into camp at vet mins who can still play for camp competition.

    Go look at the amount of quality CBs still left on the market, yet you're whining as a Pats fan that BB got his guy under market in the cap era? Could you be any more dumb here?

    You have quite a nerve asking me what I am arguing with you about, Mr. Ignorant.

     

    Where is Quags with a scoreboard update anyway?

    Me: 76

    RKarp: 0

     

     

     

     

     



    as a Pats fan I am concerned that the Pats are squandering their well earned cap space on mediocre talent.

     

     



    Ok, so that's your premise?  Who was a better fit here at CB for NE?  I am flummoxed as to who is significantly better. I said it all along when I looked at the list, that at the end of it, Talib was our best choice and NE was his.

    Here is the reality:

    From all accounts I've read/heard via people I think have legit inside info (Zolak, Reiss, etc), they like Talib.  They genuinely like what he did here.  There was some lie rumor thing about him not doing all the things BB wanted, but that honestly may have been a plant by the Pats to keep bids down. No lie. Wouldn't be surprised in the least because they real dope is, they like how can play man or zone and make teams think twice on that side.  By watching him play, it was clear he helped settled it down so BB could do other things, scheme wise.

    This is why Asmaougha doesn't fit here, too. He only plays man. BB doesn't like that. Philly is cutting him and he still hasn't signed because a CB that just plays man who is older and wants big bucks, isn't an attractive option for most teams.

    I think as much as it was that they needed a legit LCB starter last year they also use the opportunity as an open tryout of sorts to see if they could get him for under market in what BB perceived as a hunch, to be this flooded market due to teams' cap issues.

    Instead of BB bidding for Talib now (having not dealt for him), BB used the time to coach him up, letting him get acclimated, hoping he'd like it, etc. Talib called it "football heaven". When I read that, I knew BB had leverage.

    Here we are.

    You seem to beb squirming around looking for ways out of the overall, larger debate you and I had about the cap situations most notably the Jets, and cannot accept reality.

    It's not mediocre AT ALL. THe market is FLOODED. Talib was literally right at the top of NFLN's best available CB FAs the whole time. If he wasn't #1, he was #2. He was a former top 10 talent in Rd 1 of the 2008 draft.  Christ, I might even recall NE liking Talib back then. Maybe Talib was BB's CB choice in that draft and he was going to take Mayo and him until ol Rogie snuck in with this witch hunt punishment. 

    Again, there is no way on earth you have a college degree. No way.

    Rusty: 98

    RKarp: 0

    [/QUOTE]

    Dumb Dumb. I agree with you. I also prefered Talib. My point is the market felt he was even worth 1/$5. Could you, me and BB be wrong? Or is the rest of the NFL wrong? Based on BB's track record, I think it a fair question. Based on you always losing arguements to me, I think it a fair question. So I guess I am saying, could I be wrong?

     
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    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

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    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

     

    BB didnt read a flooded market. BB read that NO ONE WOULD OFFER TALIB A CONTRACT...why would no one offer Talib a contract except BB?

     



    Rkarp its been widely reported that Talib had TWO other multi year offers on the table as well as one form the Patriots. He rejected all three multi year offers for this one year make good contract.

     

    Rusty-1

    Rkarp-0

     



    so Talib took the worst deal? C'mon, no one does that. The Pats 5 year deal was 1 year guaranteed. Thas not a deal, thats a slap in the face.

     

    So every CB signed so far gets a multi year deal except Talib and DRC. Yet Talib is the best CB on the market?

    Rusty opines that BB played the market, was a genius, and which of BB's feet do I kiss first.  I see a CB that no one else wanted. All I ask is why is that? THe person or the player?

    Reid took on maybe the most toxic player of the past 10 years, Vick in Philly. He signed Smith for 3/$18. If Talib is better, why didnt he sign Talib for 3/$18?

     




    Corky, would you choose the Skins with no cap room, a QB with a blown out leg, horrible, thin upcoming drafts, a sketchy environment or NE?

     

    How is playing here worse than 95% of organizations?

    What planet are you on here?  You praise or downplay the Jets unmiitgated disaster and then question why a FA who calls NE "football heaven" 3 months ago, took a good strong market deal to play here?

    Why are you so dumb? What is it?

    Stop saying what you see, too. It's annoying. The facts are 3 other teams were in on Talib.  What you see in your little dusty crystal ball does not trump the facts.

     



    you have no clue what was reportedly offered by the other teams, and it was reported the Pats 5 year deal was actually a 1 year guarantee...

     

    Yes, I think Talib takes the most money wherever it is offered...only aged vets leave money on the table to play for the Pats

    So what you call "reading the market correctly"...I call no one else wanted him enough to make a legit offer. Says a lot about what the NFL thinks of the player (even your poster boy of over ratedness Landry secured a better deal)

     

     




    I do have a clue. The reports I read which I happen to believe were that Talib had aggressive offers, some as good as NE's. For example, BB offered Talib a combo of deals, one of them a 5 year deal. They also offered other multi year deal. Just read the reports.  I don't think they're made up, I think those are legit reports on the situation.

     

    The Skins were one team I read about that also did something similar. The report was that the deals were all very competitive.

    As for your "only aged vets leave money on the table" comment....I ask again, how can you be this dumb?

    THE MARKET IS FLOODED

    The logic behind all these CBs like Rodgers Cromartie, Talib, Sean Smith (it's a 1 year deal he can back out of himself), etc, is because their agents are adivising them to keep leverage (in their minds) to test the market again next year.  Make some sense, but it still incurs a risk.  It puts the onus on each CB to have a better year than they did in 2013 and to not get hurt.  Ok. We'll see.

    Personally, I feel it's a fine move if you don't want to commit to one franchise and aren't happy with the deals right now during this flooded market, but I also don't feel the market will open up next year.  I think these CBs will not see what they want to see after 2013. Just my gut feeling on it.

    All you have to do is look at the amount of teams who don't have key players locked down and HOW close they are to the cap struggling right now, and then look at who the CB FAs are in 2014.

    http://www.overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=CB&Year=2014

    If you look that list, that's a weaker crop, but if all these remaining CBs also sign a 1 yer deal and do the same thing, they're all FAs again in 2014, flooding the market yet again. And, that doens't even count camp cuts thay may still come due to refusing to restructure or cuts after this season due to a team's cap problem.

    There is a cap, it exists, MANY teams are in a hell right now as we speak and will be in 2014, too. I don't care how many times you and dopey Mt Hurl try to team up and downplay the cap and how bad BB is and all this garbage. You lost many times over.

    Please learn about markets, economics and supply and demand. There is no way on go'd green earth that you have a degree from Tufts or an MBA from Harvard. Those are absolute lies by you because I should not be more intelligent than you with having less presitigious degrees.

    I hope you are enjoying today's bludgeoning.

     

     



    7 CB's signed deals for at least 3/$15 including Arrington. Talib did not because one was not offered....

     

    You can call that a glut. I call it mediocrity.

    The Skins offer was very weak from what I have read. Also what I have read, the Pats 5 year deal was actually a one year guarantee. I have not seen anything concrete on a 3rd team.

    Face it...no one wanted this guy other than the Pats.

     



    That's false.

     

    By Gregg Rosenthal Published: March 16, 2013 at 9:00 AM Modified: March 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM

     

    The New England Patriots patiently stayed out of the active cornerback market in free agency because they wanted to bring back Aqib Talib. On Saturday, they got their man.

    Talib will return to the Patriots on a one-year contract, according to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport. NFL.com's Albert Breer reported, per a source, that Talib will earn $5 million in the deal.

    Talib decided to sign the one-year contract rather than a five-year pact in hopes of cashing in afterward, Rapoport and Breer reported. The cornerback passed on three other options to remain on the Patriots.

    Concerns about Talib's off-the-field behavior depressed his market in an already soft cornerback market. He didn't get the long-term contract he wanted or even a big one-year figure. For the Patriots, $5 million is a relative bargain.

    Breer reported that Talib had interest from three other teams and a five-year deal on the table from the Patriots. But Talib didn't want to take a long-term offer in this market. Like so many others during this free agency period, Talib will "bet on himself" and hope that he improves his free-agent value with a strong season.

    Talib was the Patriots' best cornerback after arriving in a trade with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in a trade, but that's not saying much. He still gave up a lot of big plays overall. The Patriots also brought back Kyle Arrington on a four-year deal, so their secondary might not have a lot of huge changes in 2013. Safety Patrick Chung left for the Philadelphia Eagles, and the Patriots signed veteran Adrian Wilson to replace him.

    Still, Talib was the key piece to it all. The Washington Redskins were interested in Talib because they have his former coach, Raheem Morris, on staff. Talib is the most talented cornerback the Patriots have had since Asante Samuel. Bill Belichick gets another year to bring that talent out of Talib.

    Follow Gregg Rosenthal on Twitter @greggrosenthal.

     

    You have this nasty habit of not knowing when you've been bludgeoned.

     



    I repeat, one team has publically had interest in Talib other than the Pats, and that was the Skins.

     


    I also repeat, the Pats 5 year offer was in fact a 1 year guarantee...

    You have repeatedly mentioned Breer is a hack who has no clue

    I dont even know what you are arguing with me about? These are the facts...Talib signed a 1 year deal at $4.8M. HE HAD NO BETTER OFFERS!!! 8 other CB's signed better deals!!!

    In theory, Arrington signed a better contract...more guaranteed $$$'s

    Why wasnt any other team willing to offer Talib more than 1/$4.8?

     



    The Skins were the only team to be confirmed, but it's clear there was other interest from multiple teams.

     

    As for Breer and me not liking him, yes, he had an agenda against BB while here and is a swarmy, little entitled know it all, but he does have contacts and solid info.  Talib was ranked as one of the highest rated CBs available and for good reason. As I predicted his off field issues are a red flag for some teams who may not feel they can corral him. BB tried him out last year, feels he can corral him, they like him, and that's that.

    If you're suggesting Talib's agent is dropping in falsified stories about demand, then I am not buying it.

    Arrington is a safer bet and is wise to secure guaranteed money which is essentially spread out over 3 years, not 4. BB can cut Arrington after 2015 and not have to pay the full 16 million.

    Also, Talib CHOSE the 1 year deal and if he blows out his leg, he would have made a mistake, wouldn;t he?

    You keep changing your arguments back and forth, when a legit Pats fan would see the big picture for both signings. 

    It cannot be debated that the Talib deal is team friendly. Secondly, with the idea Arrington is very good in the slot, we just lost an AFC Title game because Mqrwuice Cole wasn't, his deal is in no way bloated.

    BB improved the defense TWO FOLD in one shot. Talib. Check. Arrington in the slot for at least 3 more season in his prime. Check.

    Rodgers Cromartie, Sean Smith, Talib, and whoever else

    Also, I don't care what other teams do in terms of being dumb and overpaying. The guys who signed longer term and better deals a also went to moron, desperate franchises right nowl like the Lions and Saints. The fact you are using them as examples, means I win again.  BB wisely used his leverage and has been masterful setting this up into 2013 and 2014.

    Masterful.

    Wait until Abraham signs, Sanders gets in here (possibly), they have another good draft and he signs good vets into camp at vet mins who can still play for camp competition.

    Go look at the amount of quality CBs still left on the market, yet you're whining as a Pats fan that BB got his guy under market in the cap era? Could you be any more dumb here?

    You have quite a nerve asking me what I am arguing with you about, Mr. Ignorant.

     

    Where is Quags with a scoreboard update anyway?

    Me: 76

    RKarp: 0

     

     

     

     

     



    as a Pats fan I am concerned that the Pats are squandering their well earned cap space on mediocre talent.

     

     

     



    Ok, so that's your premise?  Who was a better fit here at CB for NE?  I am flummoxed as to who is significantly better. I said it all along when I looked at the list, that at the end of it, Talib was our best choice and NE was his.

     

    Here is the reality:

    From all accounts I've read/heard via people I think have legit inside info (Zolak, Reiss, etc), they like Talib.  They genuinely like what he did here.  There was some lie rumor thing about him not doing all the things BB wanted, but that honestly may have been a plant by the Pats to keep bids down. No lie. Wouldn't be surprised in the least because they real dope is, they like how can play man or zone and make teams think twice on that side.  By watching him play, it was clear he helped settled it down so BB could do other things, scheme wise.

    This is why Asmaougha doesn't fit here, too. He only plays man. BB doesn't like that. Philly is cutting him and he still hasn't signed because a CB that just plays man who is older and wants big bucks, isn't an attractive option for most teams.

    I think as much as it was that they needed a legit LCB starter last year they also use the opportunity as an open tryout of sorts to see if they could get him for under market in what BB perceived as a hunch, to be this flooded market due to teams' cap issues.

    Instead of BB bidding for Talib now (having not dealt for him), BB used the time to coach him up, letting him get acclimated, hoping he'd like it, etc. Talib called it "football heaven". When I read that, I knew BB had leverage.

    Here we are.

    You seem to beb squirming around looking for ways out of the overall, larger debate you and I had about the cap situations most notably the Jets, and cannot accept reality.

    It's not mediocre AT ALL. THe market is FLOODED. Talib was literally right at the top of NFLN's best available CB FAs the whole time. If he wasn't #1, he was #2. He was a former top 10 talent in Rd 1 of the 2008 draft.  Christ, I might even recall NE liking Talib back then. Maybe Talib was BB's CB choice in that draft and he was going to take Mayo and him until ol Rogie snuck in with this witch hunt punishment. 

    Again, there is no way on earth you have a college degree. No way.

    Rusty: 98

    RKarp: 0

     



    Dumb Dumb. I agree with you. I also prefered Talib. My point is the market felt he was even worth 1/$5. Could you, me and BB be wrong? Or is the rest of the NFL wrong? Based on BB's track record, I think it a fair question. Based on you always losing arguements to me, I think it a fair question. So I guess I am saying, could I be wrong?

     




    First of all it's "argument" not "arguement". 

    I already explained to you 100 times before FA opened last Tuesday, a stream of teams cut their CBs.

    Some team cut two starters! Philly and SD. This means between Tuesday of last weekend and the cuts over the weekend the market flooded, became very soft fr CB FAs, and changed overnight, as suspeced.  It wasn't guaranteed that would happen, but heavily suspected by most analysts.

    I am not wrong on this at all.  And you certainly have never, EVER out-debated me. I've challenged you to other bets you've rejected and the ones you've offered, I've with won with ease (2-0 in my bets with you). Heck, I evben guessed correctly who your employer is!

    Dont guess in saying you're wrong, just come right out and SAY you're wrong. You can do it, Mr MBA millionaire at ESPN!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    is Talib one of the 2 or 3 best CB's that was available in a "flooded market"? The answer is yes.

    if the market is flooded, is it reasonable that most CB's would get lower $$ than they thought? the answer is yes.

    if Talib is one of the top 2-3 CB's available, would he get on the high end of the lower $$ available? the answer is yes

    But....Talib got THE BOTTOM offer of the top 8-10 CB's that have signed so far. Did he get the bottom offer because he had no other offers that WERE BETTER OFFERS? Most likely yes. OR...is he not one of the top 8-10 CB's that were on the market??

    Stop tel;ling me how smart you are, and how stupid I am, and how you understand the market yet no one else does. You obviously dont. Just answer the question, did we (you and me included) and the Pats (BB included) over estimate Talibs ability? Or is the Talib lack of offers simply off the field  issue concerns?

    lastly, stop with the spell check police and understand an iPad.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    Didn't read all the posts and can't say I've read everything out there on the Talib deal.  My suspicion is that he didn't like any of the longer term deals he was offered and therefore took a short deal so he could try in free agency next year.  These short term deals make a lot of sense in a weak market.  It's like a mortgage.  If rates are good, you lock it in for the long term.  If the rates are bad, you take a shorter term deal and try again in a year or two when maybe the market's better. 

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Didn't read all the posts and can't say I've read everything out there on the Talib deal.  My suspicion is that he didn't like any of the longer term deals he was offered and therefore took a short deal so he could try in free agency next year.  These short term deals make a lot of sense in a weak market.  It's like a mortgage.  If rates are good, you lock it in for the long term.  If the rates are bad, you take a shorter term deal and try again in a year or two when maybe the market's better. 

     



    RKarp doesn't get that even though he has an MBA from Harvard. bawhajaja

     




    yeah, I guess you are right. Talib didnt want to make more money so he accepted the Pats low offer hat it seems no one else was going to beat

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: shocked at Talibs numbers

    Did anyone else offer him one year and if so, for how much?  I think that's the question.  I don't know because I haven't really followed what's been reported about the offers he got (and personally I wouldn't trust the reports fully anyway).  But my suspicion is he got a few longer term offers that didn't look that good to him and then decided it made more sense to take a one year deal so he could test the market again next year.  The Pats' one-year offer may have been the only one or the best one financially or, maybe, the one that he thought was most worth taking because he thought the Pats would give him the best opportunity to showcase his skills in preparation for next year's free agent market.  Whatever the reason, I think Talib decided to skip this year's free agent market and wait till next year when the market for corners might be better or his value might be higher (because of a productive, problem-free season) or both.  

     
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