Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    You can read in about 1 million places that it was Talib who chose the shorter deal.  The Pats wanted him to sign a longer one.  I've seen reports they offered him a variety of deals the longest being 5 years.  What do you want BB to do lock the guy in a room until he signs a long term deal?

     



    this is good to know. not everyone (i didnt has seeen or heard the reports). this makes sense (that they did ty to offer multiple years)

    thanks for the info

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    dude is yourng, long and good. if what you want happens and he stays healthy and no off field issues, we will have no shot at teh bloated contract he will warrant.

    we should have drawn up an amendola contract for 4-5 years that requires him to play x amount of games to earn it and with a behavior clause.


    Dude is immature, injured often, and went out at the most critical time of the season last year with another injury. He hasn't proven a thing yet. Yes he's talented, but it is idiotic to invest big money and long years into potential. If he has a great season, and he outprices himself, we got the most for our money without any risk. I also think that if the rest of the league's experts  agreed with you, he would've gotten what YOU think he should've.

     
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    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I like the 1 year deal.  He hasn't played a full NFL season yet and ended the last the seasons early with the same injury.  So play it safe, see what he does this year and if stays healthy and does well this season then pay him to stay in the future.

     



    you are not reading or digestign wht i said.amendola for instance gets his money if he plays enough gaems. that can b writiten into the contract

     

     



    Bredbru, I don't think you understand how FA works. Free Agents aren't out there looking for the best deals for the team, they're looking for what best suits them. In most cases, it's the most years with the most guarantees. If Talib thinks he can raise his value in a year, WHY would he sign a long term undermarket deal with low guarantees?

     

     

    You said this earlier about how they should've resigned Talib as soon as they traded for him. None of your deals make sense in the players perspective. In a contract, a player has to agree to the deal too...It's not just the teams decision to set up a contract that only works out best for them.



    "Bredbru, I don't think you understand how FA works. Free Agents aren't out there looking for the best deals for the team, they're looking for what best suits them. In most cases, it's the most years with the most guarantees"

    i am quite aware of this. obviously im not on teh edge of my seat hopping we make a deal that hurts the team and helps the player (but the otehr way around).

     

    "You said this earlier about how they should've resigned Talib as soon as they traded for him. None of your deals make sense in the players perspective. In a contract, a player has to agree to the deal too...It's not just the teams decision to set up a contract that only works out best for them."

     

    and that reasoning made no sense to you that wehn he was almost out of the league bacasue no one wanteed him and he hadnt had a chance ot prove himsself he would have had the least lewverage and been happy wiht  a lessre deal?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    Have read in multiple places that it was Talib who settled for 1 year and not long term security.  Say this for him, he is obviously confident in his abilities and will be looking to cash in by having a good year.  That BB waited out the market and got Talib on his terms is a good thing.  He could've overpaid for the guy, which would have been worse.  I frankly think giving this guy a long term deal and a big bonus would be scary, who knows which guy you're gonna get at that point?    

     




    Agree. Plus, Bdbreu doesn't understand economics and markets. The 1 year deal actually favors the Pats due to the cap not going up in 2015. BB will have another pick of quality CBs next offseason.

     

    Bdbreu is just pissed he'll have to adjust his roster again next year. lol

    I just read Reiss's blog and he's pointing to the market being flooded again next year as well, which is what I said days ago if not weeks ago:

     

    7. Not sure enough attention has been paid to how dramatically the market has been lowered for player contracts this year. When a top cornerback like Cortland Finnegan signs a deal averaging $10 million per season as a free agent last year, and this year's top cornerbacks feel fortunate to get half that, it is stunning to watch unfold. Remind me again how this is good for the players? I am already hearing that 2014 is likely going to be more of the same.

    Bdbreu, in case you're needing a translation, this means Talib is taking a massive gamble on a team that may not have the best structure, paying a lot more to get to the cap FLOOR by 2015.

    That's certainly possible, but it's also  major risk in what will be a flooded market again due to a stagnant cap ceiling.

    You can either learn or continue to be an ignorant kid running around here babbling and whining about every move BB makes.  Your behavior here, amongst others refusing to learn why BB does what he does, reflects a very poor IQ level or even wanting to learn.

     

     



    2014 is going to be the same thing because all these cbs are settling for short term deals.

     

    Next years class will include Talib, DRC, probably Grimes, Tillman, Tim Jennings, Sam Shields, Vontae Davis, and probably some fill in some release victims in there too.

    Next year won't be much different than last year

     




    Why are you repeating what I've been saying for weeks, days or months on this topic? I know that.

     

    It's people like Bdbreu that don't get the concepts of economics, supply and demand and market trends.

    These players are actually being misled by agents who are risking beating the market, basically over greed.

    It actually makes more sense for Talib to do a 2 year deal, but it's not skin off BBs back. BB will have the leverage next year as well.  If Talib gets a bloated deal, he'll just walk over to the next quality CB and get him under market.

    That's why it might be important to draft a CB in Rd 1 with the idea the CB can learn in 2013 and then start on the left side in 2014.

     



    Wasn't meant to be a reply of your post. Saw your post and decided to list the FA's next year to back up the point.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from KWPatsFan. Show KWPatsFan's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    Making him play hard for a 1 year deal, while keeping himself on the straight and narrow was a great call.  A 5 year deal could have caused all sorts of problems.  Durability is another issue we have to see if he can even stay healthy.  Great call for a 1 year I say.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I like the 1 year deal.  He hasn't played a full NFL season yet and ended the last the seasons early with the same injury.  So play it safe, see what he does this year and if stays healthy and does well this season then pay him to stay in the future.

     



    you are not reading or digestign wht i said.amendola for instance gets his money if he plays enough gaems. that can b writiten into the contract

     

     



    Bredbru, I don't think you understand how FA works. Free Agents aren't out there looking for the best deals for the team, they're looking for what best suits them. In most cases, it's the most years with the most guarantees. If Talib thinks he can raise his value in a year, WHY would he sign a long term undermarket deal with low guarantees?

     

     

    You said this earlier about how they should've resigned Talib as soon as they traded for him. None of your deals make sense in the players perspective. In a contract, a player has to agree to the deal too...It's not just the teams decision to set up a contract that only works out best for them.

     



    "Bredbru, I don't think you understand how FA works. Free Agents aren't out there looking for the best deals for the team, they're looking for what best suits them. In most cases, it's the most years with the most guarantees"

     

    i am quite aware of this. obviously im not on teh edge of my seat hopping we make a deal that hurts the team and helps the player (but the otehr way around).

     

    "You said this earlier about how they should've resigned Talib as soon as they traded for him. None of your deals make sense in the players perspective. In a contract, a player has to agree to the deal too...It's not just the teams decision to set up a contract that only works out best for them."

     

    and that reasoning made no sense to you that wehn he was almost out of the league bacasue no one wanteed him and he hadnt had a chance ot prove himsself he would have had the least lewverage and been happy wiht  a lessre deal?



    Who said no one ever wanted him? The Pats at least wanted him...sounds like the Skins did too. And if no one wanted him, then he clearly isn't taking his best possible deal.

    A big reason why nobody wants him is his offseason issues. He probably figures if he can stay out of trouble for just one whole season, his value will jump tremendously.

    This was a "bet on himself" type of deal.

     
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    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    How many people were talking about putting the francise tag on Talib for $9.5 million? This way we saved ourselves @4.5 million.

     
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    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    With a flat cap, what you're seeing is that every guy who gets a really big contract (like Flacco) takes away money from other guys.  You can only have growing contracts with a growing cap.  Once the cap is flat (or near flat), it becomes a zero sum game.  Anyone who gets a big contract is taking away money from the remaining guys.  I think we're seeing a bit of that right now and it will likely continue for at least another year or maybe longer from what I've been reading.  The question is whether cap growth eventually gets back to 5% or 6% per year (like it was in the past, with a few notable higher increases in the players' favour in 2006 and 2009 and a drop in the owners' favour in 2011) or whether it stays in the 1% or 2% level it has been recently. It's hard to predict unless you know the NFL's revenue situation and all the details of the revenue calculation for the purpose of determining the cap (which, of course, none of us know). 

      

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    dude is yourng, long and good. if what you want happens and he stays healthy and no off field issues, we will have no shot at teh bloated contract he will warrant.

    we should have drawn up an amendola contract for 4-5 years that requires him to play x amount of games to earn it and with a behavior clause.

     

     

         What choice did the Pats have? It's what Talib wanted...a chance to prove that all the negative off the field stuff is behind him. It's also good for the Pats...as it ensures that they'll have a motivated Talib in 2013. 

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to KWPatsFan's comment:

    Making him play hard for a 1 year deal, while keeping himself on the straight and narrow was a great call.  A 5 year deal could have caused all sorts of problems.  Durability is another issue we have to see if he can even stay healthy.  Great call for a 1 year I say.



    caused problems? not if gaem splayed and beahvior clause was in there (and only way you do it). as a few have said, someone understood we actaully did try to get talib on a longer contract.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    dude is yourng, long and good. if what you want happens and he stays healthy and no off field issues, we will have no shot at teh bloated contract he will warrant.

    we should have drawn up an amendola contract for 4-5 years that requires him to play x amount of games to earn it and with a behavior clause.

     

     

         What choice did the Pats have? It's what Talib wanted...a chance to prove that all the negative off the field stuff is behind him. It's also good for the Pats...as it ensures that they'll have a motivated Talib in 2013. 

     

     



    good for 2013, but if yo read my thoghts, we  ay still have to draft a cb (whihc i was looking ot free up) because there is a good chancve he walsk after that for the biggest money

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    With a flat cap, what you're seeing is that every guy who gets a really big contract (like Flacco) takes away money from other guys.  You can only have growing contracts with a growing cap.  Once the cap is flat (or near flat), it becomes a zero sum game.  Anyone who gets a big contract is taking away money from the remaining guys.  I think we're seeing a bit of that right now and it will likely continue for at least another year or maybe longer from what I've been reading.  The question is whether cap growth eventually gets back to 5% or 6% per year (like it was in the past, with a few notable higher increases in the players' favour in 2006 and 2009 and a drop in the owners' favour in 2011) or whether it stays in the 1% or 2% level it has been recently. It's hard to predict unless you know the NFL's revenue situation and all the details of the revenue calculation for the purpose of determining the cap (which, of course, none of us know). 

      

     




    Right. We don't know, but as an owner and GM you could have guessed and ballparked it.  I would have been in Kraft's lap if I was an owner during those lockout sessions.

     

    The owners locked out for a reason. It was because they felt the revenue, as great as it was, wasn't impacting the entire 32 teams evenly,

    This is why in our debates, I kept suggesting to you and others that the union will not win in that and the owners will wait until they get total control of when and how much the spikes come.

    In the last CBA, the spikes favored the players more which hurt (in the owners minds) the ROI on the "product" which are the players.

    So, for any NFL team to be so arrogant (Jets) or dumb (Redskins, Bears, Cowboys, etc) or both, is their own fault.

    I saw it a mile away.  BB knew it, scaled it back, loaded up on picks, waited in the weeds and now is letting the market tumble down to him. Utter genius.

    Flacco's deal will still be awful in 2015 when his cap hit jumps signiifcanlty.  2016, his cap hit is 29 million!  Even with an extension/restructure, they will be in serious trouble for years and years with that deal because he's overpaid on the currrent market.

    He wins big time, but the Ravens and their fans lose big time.

     

     



    I very much enjoy benefitting from your knowledge of market trends, economics and timely info on football in general and the Pats in particular. What makes this forum special, however,  is the varied opinions of Pats fans on topics of interest. It may be obvious that some input seems rather naive or ill informed yet frequent reviews of well hashed topics help increase our collective understanding of pertinent issues(or opinions).

    It's important, as a contributor, to be gracious and patient when responding to another fan's ignorance of information already discussed since some of us have unwieldy work schedules (or obligations) and the pure volume of input may escape our notice. To demean someone's question smacks more of intellectual snobbery than helpful dialogue. Trolls excepted, we're here to share knowledge and learn from one another!

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to moskk's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    With a flat cap, what you're seeing is that every guy who gets a really big contract (like Flacco) takes away money from other guys.  You can only have growing contracts with a growing cap.  Once the cap is flat (or near flat), it becomes a zero sum game.  Anyone who gets a big contract is taking away money from the remaining guys.  I think we're seeing a bit of that right now and it will likely continue for at least another year or maybe longer from what I've been reading.  The question is whether cap growth eventually gets back to 5% or 6% per year (like it was in the past, with a few notable higher increases in the players' favour in 2006 and 2009 and a drop in the owners' favour in 2011) or whether it stays in the 1% or 2% level it has been recently. It's hard to predict unless you know the NFL's revenue situation and all the details of the revenue calculation for the purpose of determining the cap (which, of course, none of us know). 

      

     




    Right. We don't know, but as an owner and GM you could have guessed and ballparked it.  I would have been in Kraft's lap if I was an owner during those lockout sessions.

     

    The owners locked out for a reason. It was because they felt the revenue, as great as it was, wasn't impacting the entire 32 teams evenly,

    This is why in our debates, I kept suggesting to you and others that the union will not win in that and the owners will wait until they get total control of when and how much the spikes come.

    In the last CBA, the spikes favored the players more which hurt (in the owners minds) the ROI on the "product" which are the players.

    So, for any NFL team to be so arrogant (Jets) or dumb (Redskins, Bears, Cowboys, etc) or both, is their own fault.

    I saw it a mile away.  BB knew it, scaled it back, loaded up on picks, waited in the weeds and now is letting the market tumble down to him. Utter genius.

    Flacco's deal will still be awful in 2015 when his cap hit jumps signiifcanlty.  2016, his cap hit is 29 million!  Even with an extension/restructure, they will be in serious trouble for years and years with that deal because he's overpaid on the currrent market.

    He wins big time, but the Ravens and their fans lose big time.

     

     

     



    I very much enjoy benefitting from your knowledge of market trends, economics and timely info on football in general and the Pats in particular. What makes this forum special, however,  is the varied opinions of Pats fans on topics of interest. It may be obvious that some input seems rather naive or ill informed yet frequent reviews of well hashed topics help increase our collective understanding of pertinent issues(or opinions).

     

    It's important, as a contributor, to be gracious and patient when responding to another fan's ignorance of information already discussed since some of us have unwieldy work schedules (or obligations) and the pure volume of input may escape our notice. To demean someone's question smacks more of intellectual snobbery than helpful dialogue. Trolls excepted, we're here to share knowledge and learn from one another!

     

     




    I think there is a difference between someone asking and wanting to learn about something in life and someone who thinks they know things, didn't do their homework, and then mocks BB or acts belligerent.

     

    Appreciate your comments, but it does get quite annoying after explaining these concepts over and over, only to see some literally be that ignorant or refuse to learn.

    It's like the Reiss thread when people are talking about how professional he is and how arrogant and ignorant Felger/Mazz are.

    When people have knowledged on a topic, I like to learn from them. We have some here who refuse to or actually go as far as mocking BB because apparently the concepts are too much for them.

    Bdbreu is notorious for not learning, mocking BB and knee jerking spam threads on here, usually in fragmented sentence form.

     



    Point well taken but in defense of Bredbru, his opinion about the 1 year Talib signing obviously indicated that he didn't understand the implications of the "flat cap" in 2014 nor what impact that might have on 2015 salaries etc.. Your explanation was great without the put-down. 

    Sometimes the best way to educate is to lay out the facts in such a way that the reader suddendly figures it out for himself. (In that fashion you've made a friend.)

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I like the 1 year deal.  He hasn't played a full NFL season yet and ended the last the seasons early with the same injury.  So play it safe, see what he does this year and if stays healthy and does well this season then pay him to stay in the future.

     



    you are not reading or digestign wht i said.amendola for instance gets his money if he plays enough gaems. that can b writiten into the contract

     




    No, I get what you are saying, but the player has to agree to these terms.  We don't if the Pats wanted to put a playing/injury clause in the contract and Talib said no.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Signing talib to 1 year was not smart in my opinon

    The deal works both ways (like every deal). If Talib plays his way onto the pro-bowl roster he gets a nice fat multi-year deal or he gets franchised. If he plays poorly or gets injured(see hamstring) his value in 2014 decreases. Talib and his agent want to test the 2014 FA market which could be a better market than 2013 for starting CBs. Also, if Talib has any off-field issues he could easily decrease his value. Talib and his agent did not want the 5 yr deal the Pats offered so BB wisely came back and offered him a one year prove it contract. Ideally I would have been happy with a 3 year deal, but if Talib wants to test the market in 2014 there is not much the Pat can do to stop him. When an offer is rejected you have to make a counter-proposal the team can live with. Talib will be playing for big contract in 2014 when he suits up with Pats in 2013.


    This does not necessarily deter the Pats brass from drafting a CB in this year's draft. Put draftee in the nickel rotation and see if he has starter potential. This draft is deep in CBs and DTs.


    If the Pats sign Abraham it will be similar to the Andre Carter deal and Abraham has been, thoughout his career, a more productive and consistent player than Carter. As situatuional player he fits very well and will be less cost-prohibitive than Dumervil.

     
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