Since the lockout has been lifted...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from cwiegmann24. Show cwiegmann24's posts

    Since the lockout has been lifted...

    Can teams trade players during the draft tomorrow night? Assuming they're under contract, of course.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    That has yet to be decided. Right now, as far as I know, the NFL is coming up with internal rules of operation for these things so the draft can go on and there will be some kind of support for players working out.

    I'm not really worried about player trades, but missing camps and workouts would bea  bad thing to start, because once those start stacking up, it might translate into missed games, which would stink.  
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    I don't think there will be any specific ruling on trades from the Court today.  The only ruling today will be whether the injunction against the lockout is stayed or not. 

    Franchise tags have been challenged in the players' lawsuit, so trading a player who has been tagged would be risky, because tags may be nullified as a result of the lawsuit.  Trades per se have not been challenged, but without a CBA in place, I'm not sure there's any legal document that governs trades unless the players contract includes specific trade clauses. If there's no CBA in effect that sanctions and governs trades, then I'm not sure a trade can be executed with any confidence that it will be upheld if challenged by the player.

    I think for all these reasons, player trades are unlikely until the labor situation is more fully resolved. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    In Response to Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...:
    I don't think there will be any specific ruling on trades from the Court today.  The only ruling today will be whether the injunction against the lockout is stayed or not.  Franchise tags have been challenged in the players' lawsuit, so trading a player who has been tagged would be risky, because tags may be nullified as a result of the lawsuit.  Trades per se have not been challenged, but without a CBA in place, I'm not sure there's any legal document that governs trades unless the players contract includes specific trade clauses. If there's no CBA in effect that sanctions and governs trades, then I'm not sure a trade can be executed with any confidence that it will be upheld if challenged by the player. I think for all these reasons, player trades are unlikely until the labor situation is more fully resolved. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

    AFAIK,the court won't rule on any of that. The ruling has basically been handed, though there is an outside chance that something in the NFLPA's response makes her stay her ruling. 

    According to the United States, football is going on now. The NFL needs to come up with some rules that satisfy anti-trust law. They are doing that now, though they asked for a few days when the ruling was given.

    I have no idea how that impacts franchise tags in the future, although I haven't read anything in the lawsuits challenging franchise tags. Suit one, which they won, challenged the legality of a non-profit like the NFL engineering war chests for either side in negotiations that supposedly represent both sides. Suit two, which they are in now, challenged the NFL's ability to being an industry wide lockout under anti-trust law as an unfair non-bargaining tactic intended to fix the price of labor. 

    I think franch tags, and the rest will be decided later through bargaining after the courts figure out the lockout situation. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    right now they(nfl) are just treading water untill they get their stay....

    but I think its really just getting strated. the shootin match that is...

    lots of mouths goin off on the nflpu's side.... (note the U and not an A)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    Z . .  Count 1 in the Brady lawsuit challenges the lockout, count 2 challenges the draft, and count 3 challenges the salary cap and restrictions on free agency including franchise and transition tags.  (There are other counts as well, mostly related to violations of contract that stem from the lockout.)  The NFL players also requested an injunction against the lockout.  (An injunction against the lockout doesn't prove the lockout is illegal--it just prevents it from occurring until the matter of its legality can be decided. It's not a victory in the lawsuit for the players, just an action that prohibits the league from going forward with an action that may or may not be illegal until such time as the legality or illegality of that action can be decided upon.) The hearings to date are all about the injunction against the lockout.  The other issues haven't been touched on at all and probably won't be for some time still. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    In Response to Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...:
    [QUOTE]Z . .  Count 1 in the Brady lawsuit challenges the lockout, count 2 challenges the draft, and count 3 challenges the salary cap and restrictions on free agency including franchise and transition tags.  (There are other counts as well, mostly related to violations of contract that stem from the lockout.)  The NFL players also requested an injunction against the lockout.  (An injunction against the lockout doesn't prove the lockout is illegal--it just prevents it from occurring until the matter of its legality can be decided. It's not a victory in the lawsuit for the players, just an action that prohibits the league from going forward with an action that may or may not be illegal until such time as the legality or illegality of that action can be decided upon.) The hearings to date are all about the injunction against the lockout.  The other issues haven't been touched on at all and probably won't be for some time still. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Yeah Prolate. But none of those things are being challenged in principle. Those are being challenged because they weren't bargained for by the association, they were bargained for years ago by the union, and the NFL is proceeding as if they still exist.

    When football resumes there will still be some kind of draft, likely some restrictions on FA, and likely a salary cap. The NFL and NFLPA will have to go back to the drawing board to come up with rules .... and this time that drawing board won't include lockouts as a negotiation tactic. 

    Trust me ... the most relevant feature of this case is the "continuation" bit. Once Nelson and the courts rule that lockouts don't count as a continuation of non-statutory anti-trust exemptions, every lockout by precedent will be deemed an end of negotiation and the beginning of anti-trust litigation that leagues cannot win. 

    It will flavor the upcoming negotiations in the NBA as well. 

    Nelson isn't, and can't, rule in an itemized way about how the NFL/NFLPA(u) does business, as anyone can strike a non-statutory bargain. What she can do is reaffirm how the NFL must not behave toward the NFLPA*. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    Couple of questions:

    1.  didn't the players decertify before the lockout?  Didn't they as a result of that decertification effectively terminate the collective bargaining process since the NFL after decertification had no entity to collectively bargain with?  None of this really matters now, but I am curious. 

    2.  the judge, I believe, has suggested that the NFL can operate under 2010 rules as an answer to its question about how the league would operate.  the players, however, have no requirement to accept those rules or any rules they deem that anti-competitive correct?  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    The lockout has reportedly not been lifted by the NFL owners.  Only the lawful basis for the lockout has been lifted by a judge.  Michael Silver points out that the owners can still do as they please because they're billionaires.  At this point a number of owners are just daring Judge Susie to sign the order to handcuff them and haul them before some judge on contempt of court charges, how do you plead, not guilty yer honor.   Susie probably isn't going to take the bait, at least not for a week or two. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    In Response to Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...:
    [QUOTE]Couple of questions: 1.  didn't the players decertify before the lockout?  Didn't they as a result of that decertification effectively terminate the collective bargaining process since the NFL after decertification had no entity to collectively bargain with?  None of this really matters now, but I am curious.  2.  the judge, I believe, has suggested that the NFL can operate under 2010 rules as an answer to its question about how the league would operate.  the players, however, have no requirement to accept those rules or any rules they deem that anti-competitive correct?  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    UD, 

    They were both effective filed the same day. It was probably decided that there wasn't going to be an extension earlier that day, and both sides did what they had planned to do in that case. The lack of bargaining extension is the end. The lockout, however, has been the threat since the beginning, decertification is a response to that threat. The NFLPA wouldn't decertify if there wasn't a lockout because, as you can read in the ruling, it wouldn't benefit them. No threats of lockout? Well then this whole thing wouldn't be in court right now...

    The key thing is the negotiations have ended, finished, done, and thus the NFL can't continue on like a lockout is a form of negotiation and call it an "impasse." It's like a bankrobber holding a gun to your head and calling it a negotiation impasse about how much money you should give him ...

    In the future, the NFL will have to do what many have done before in impasse situations ... force a strike to cover their behinds. 

    2. I suggested that weeks ago when people (mostly pro-owner) were running around in panic saying it was going to be armageddon. The owners said that would be the rules before the negotiations ended.

    It's the logical outcome of the injunction. You have to start up, and the closest "trusty" rules you have were the non-CBA provisions from the last CBA. 

    Negotiations will likely begin again under those rules at some point, though I don't think the NFL is going to negotiate anything until the ghost of a chance is gone ... they essentially will need to be ordered to the table if it is to be on equal footing. 

    Yeah the players can accept those rules by showing up. If they don't want to play/practice under them ... as usual for most workers, they don't have too. All said and done ... those rules will probably be something like what the NFL looks like going down the road. Though I don't see any future iteration of the NFLPA assenting to another franchise tag. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...

    In Response to Re: Since the lockout has been lifted...:
    [QUOTE]The lockout has reportedly not been lifted by the NFL owners.  Only the lawful basis for the lockout has been lifted by a judge.  Michael Silver points out that the owners can still do as they please because they're billionaires.  At this point a number of owners are just daring Judge Susie to sign the order to handcuff them and haul them before some judge on contempt of court charges, how do you plead, not guilty yer honor.   Susie probably isn't going to take the bait, at least not for a week or two. 
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    Well. They are already letting players practice. I don't think the NFL owners (billionaires though they are) would be into paying to keep a business closed. They already went out of their way to try and ensure that  they would get paid themselves despite closing their business. They aren't going to pay contempt fees when they can open doors and make money (lots and lots of money) this season.

     
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