Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

     In the spirit of the original post I agree that not drafting Clay Matthews and not extending Samuel before the 2007 season were mistakes. That being said everyone makes mistakes, in football especially. I would argue that only the Steelers have as good a track record as the Patriots in avoiding mistakes or recovering from them over the last decade.
      About Asante Samuel, he was a terrefic player in New England and a very good player in Philadelphia. Is he a great tackler, perhaps not, but Deon Sanders who is the greatest cornerback I have ever seen play (I've been following the Pats and the NFL since the late 70's) was a much worse tackler. I remember Playoff games (San Diego in 2006) where the opponents avoided his side of the field most of the game and when they finally targeted him he made them pay. I also remember Sanders coming up big in the playoffs against the Jets and Jaguars. His dropping of a potential interception in the Super Bowl is not what cost the perfect season in 2007. It was not that easy of a catch after all and Merriweather dropped a much much easier one on the same drive. The whole team and coaching staff were to blame for that superbowl debacle. Who here remember's Brady throwing the ball away to avoid an interception on 4th and 10 while in field goal range (a long field goal to be sure but Ghost had made longer in the playoffs under more pressure). 
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    wow how did we end up here. Look around you how many teams you can say are successful and persistent? PATs, Steelers, Colts and Ravens. You can add jets to 2 year wonders thats it in AFC. In NFC its all screwed up any way, so when you say 6 personeel decisions haunt PATs in last GOD 12 years we can live with that, whatever it may be. I cant get get the season tickets for last 6 years and cant afford it anyway. I cant even get regular season tickets so business wise PATs are all right. I can go to any game i want for Jets, bills or Miami( i just read it in papers).   
    Posted by sam0377


    So if the Pats, Steelers, Colts and Ravens are the successful teams, do they all have a genius making the moves?




     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    How long did it take the dynasty teams to win again after turning over their rosters (Packers 60's, Dolphins 70's, Steelers late 70's, Niners 80's  & Cowboy's in the early 90's)...Rebuilding to a championship level is part of the deal after dominating the game over 3 to 5 year stretches... Like it or not the Pat's IMHO the Pat's personnel issues a re a symtom of a greater problem and that is since adopting their current finesse offense and bend but break defensive phylosohpies, they have but 1 Super Bowl appearance to show for it and almost won that one....if not for a couple of plays for the ages... My point is only that the style you plays dictates personnal decisions. The New England Patriots that won 3 Superbowls did so with a ball control offense and a opportunistic stingy red zone defense...That on both sides of the ball played a very physical, punch you in the mouth style. Those teams once given leads would grind teams to death in the forth quarter with Clock killin Cory Dillion and Atwain and a cloud of dust Smith before him.... To that end I would say the fall of the empire started with allowing #24 Ty Law to walk and then after him was guys like Danial Graham, perhaps the best run blocking tightend to ever pull a pats jersey over his pads...both signaled the end of championship football being played in New England and in came the new finesse spread offense and the bend but don't break defense...both of which cost us the 2007 championship and the 2006 title game vs the Colts...when we couldn't run the ball and kill the clock with leads late in both games...
    Posted by Beantowne


    Very good points. Though I would be able to live with the current running game if the D was as reliable as it was back in the dynasty days. Outstanding players moved on and we just haven't replaced them adequately. It's pretty simple.

    Those dynasty teams went bad when the big stars got old. Our big star isn't even old yet but because we didn't keep the D strong we don't have anything to show for his mid-career.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : It's certainly debatable, I'm just biased because I didn't think he wasn't that great of a player. You're right though, corners don't grow on trees, neither do...pass rushers, QB's, and left tackles. It's funny that the one position that I think does grow on trees is offensive guards, and we shelled out huge money to keep ours. As For Samual's contract not being much as of today, you could say that about almost any nfl contract - they're like cell phones or computers - they are outdated the moment the ink dries...it's what is wrong with the nfl and sports in general.
    Posted by mthurl


    Mankins is a lot better guard than Samuel is a corner.
     
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    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :      Just another example of your smug sarcasm, and rudeness. Are you a Yankee fan?  
    Posted by TexasPat3

    Pot meet kettle.
     
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    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :      Look whose talking...LOL!!!       I hope that you have fully recovered from your fall, after you fainted upon learning that Peyton may miss the next 4-5 weeks.
    Posted by TexasPat3

    I thought you were ignoring me.  You are such a small person, and a liar to boot.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    Not surprised you'd see it as a compliment.  LOL!!!

    You mean the mega deal like Brady's?  That deal?

     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    I think the biggest mistake the Patriots made was sticking with Pees for so long as the defensive coordinator.  They lost in the Indy playoff becouse the defense could not hold the lead.  They lost the perfect season becouse the defense could not get off the field.  Many games were lost in the second half becouse the defense did not make adjustments or were too worn out.  he was not a good game coach. 
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    To that end I would say the fall of the empire started with allowing #24 Ty Law to walk and then after him was guys like Danial Graham, perhaps the best run blocking tightend to ever pull a pats jersey over his pads...both signaled the end of championship football being played in New England and in came the new finesse spread offense and the bend but don't break defense...both of which cost us the 2007 championship and the 2006 title game vs the Colts...when we couldn't run the ball and kill the clock with leads late in both games...
    Posted by Beantowne


    Just to clarify, the "bend don't break" defense hasn't changed at all since Belichick coached here as defensive coordinator, not including the Pete Carroll years of course.  BB is and always will be the defensive coordinator for all intensive purposes... only the players have changed.

    The defense got old against the Giants in the Super Bowl, they hadn't lost in 22 games and were out of gas, thus the rebuilding... The offense has changed, that is all.


     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

       "Suppose you're a heart surgeon, whose lost his last three patients while performing a certain procedure. Are you going to feel confident performing that procedure on patient #4? "

    Texas Pat

    I'm gonna have a field day with this.

    If I am widely referred to as the most successful heart surgeon in the country then yes I am absolutely confident because lives are on the line and I am the best at what I do.. 

    Great surgeons don't save every life they operate on, but if they had say a 14-5 success rate then I believe they would feel pretty confident. Great QB's don't win every playoff game, but if they had say a 14-5 success rate then I believe they would feel pretty confident.

    Feel the sting "big bull"?

    But maybe YOUR right and Brady has lost confidence because you say so. Strong opinion for a big Pats fan.


    Okay...Glass Joe...your turn: Here are my questions:

    1.) Has Leigh Bodden has successfully replaced Asante Samuel?;

    (YES In 2009 Bodden had his 2nd highest int total and career high 18 pass deflections, he also had more tackles then Sameul ever had in 1 year) As a matter of fact Samuel's last year in NE was almost exactly the same as Leigh Boddens 1st year except he had less tackles and 1 more int.) 

    Leigh Bodden doesn't have to replace Asante Samuel, he has to do a good job playing CB and the consensus of most sane men on earth is that he did that in 09 before missing the entire 10 season.


    2.) Samuel has been select All-Pro twice, and made the pro-bowl in three straight years, during his tenure with the Eagles?

    (If this is a question show me) Is this a question? Why does Leigh Bodden have to be a prowbowl stud or a failure? Why can't he be a "good" CB. At 22 million I  would rather have him then 3xprowbowl blah bah blah 60 MILLION dollar Asanate Samuel.

    3.) Other than Asomugha and Revis, please name five CBs who you think are better than Samuel?

    (I think Asante IS a top 5 CB)

    So because he is a top 5 cb this means that we should have caved into his demands and made him the highest paid cb in the league? Great defense's are not built in the secondary, they start with the defensive line. I wasn't smart enough to come up with that on my own. I heard a guy named Bill Belichick say it.


    4.) Do you believe that Leigh Bodden is a pro-bowl caliber CB?

    (YES I think he is a pro-bowl caliber cb even though I don't think he has been to a pro bowl)

    I believe that Leigh Bodden is a good corner back who tackles well and is seldom caught out of position. This is what is important to the patriots, patriots fans and winning games, not whether or not he makes a pro bowl.


    5.) Why do you think that it was necessary for the Pats to "package picks" to get Mark Ingram, when they could have simply taken him with their 28th overall pick?

    (PRETTY STRAIGHT FORWARD ANSWER HERE CHIEF)

    Going into the draft I wanted Ingram and still do personally. We could have taken a tackle, moved up to take Ingram(even though he fell) and perhaps got a 3rd pick in the 1st round by moving picks. I guess I wasn't smart enough to predict the course of the draft. Something you seem to think you are very good at.(when you have the almighty power of HINDSIGHT)


    6.) Aren't you being negative, and critical of BB, when you stated that the Patriots' should have taken Anthony Castonzo over Nate Solder? Why do you think that?

    Your the one trying to paint a picture of me as a koolaid drinking homer, how else could you win an argument of whether or not Tom Brady has lost confidence because you said so. I liked Costanzo because I am a BC fan. I knew what he brought. Didn't know much about Solder and thought we could have gotten him later. Unlike you I like what I have seen from Solder though.

    7.) How do you think that the Patriots' OL played in the preseason, on a scale from 1-10?

    I honestly, and not just to back up MY point that our o-line is not a "major concern" (as you suggest) think that its PRESEASON and it doesn't really much matter. They looked great against the Bucs and Jags when we moved the ball at will and I didn't think much of it then either.

    8.) Finally...please point out which, if any, of the 6 bad BB personnel decisions that I listed to start this thread, do you agree with me on? As to the ones which you disagree on...please tell us why? 

    I feel I've been answering this for the past 2 days.

    Anyway apparently your over the top thread title has worked because you have elicited a lengthy response and discussion. You mentor Dan Shaughnessy would be proud of you.

       
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    All of your responses are "you failed to answer my question" What happened to back and forth discussion? I answered your questions. Do you have any rebuttal to my statements in the last post? Or will you just continue to say"you failed to answer my questions"?

    I think most people who somehow had the patience to follow our conversation realize what just happened.

    Your opinions are

    Tom Brady has lost his confidence.

    Tom Brady's knee injury was his own fault because you think he looked "unfocused" in the 7 minutes he played in 2008.

    Leigh Bodden is a failure.

    Pats should have made Samuel the highest paid cb in the league and they would have won  SB's

    The Patriot organization is haunted by BB's personnel decisions.

    The offensive line is a "major concern"

    We lost our last 3 playoff games because teams rushed Brady up the middle.

    We lost our last 3 playoff games because Brady lost his confidence.

    We lost our last 2 playoff games because we have the worst secondary in the league.


    It takes a tough man to call another man a coward over an internet chat board.

    EDIT: I went back and put a large caps yes or no in front of my answers so you can't say I didn't answer your question anymore.


     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    Letting butterfingers Samuel walk was no mistake.

    While BB has made many mistakes on incoming players, he has been flawless on outgoing players.

    This is because he is an outstanding coach and just an average GM.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    Letting butterfingers Samuel walk was no mistake.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Agreed.  He was a nice player, but definitely not worth what he got paid by Philly. He's no Ty Law.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :      See my response to Babe, above.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Okay and if we had drafted better at those spots it wouldn't have been a mistake. Also who knows how else the roster would have changed to accomodate Samuel's salary cap number.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    Letting butterfingers Samuel walk was no mistake. While BB has made many mistakes on incoming players, he has been flawless on outgoing players. This is because he is an outstanding coach and just an average GM.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    An average GM doesn't build a team that has been as good as the Pats year in and year out since 2001.
     
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