Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Okay and if we had drafted better at those spots it wouldn't have been a mistake. Also who knows how else the roster would have changed to accomodate Samuel's salary cap number.
    Posted by 423206852231dc13f5b2e36577a3bcfa[/QUOTE]

         There's some truth to what you are saying. But, the Pats ended up paying big anyway, in salary to Bodden, and in wasted draft choices. Like him or not, Samuel could play. Babe is still blaming him for the SB 42 loss.

         I understand that hindsight is always 20/20, and that BB hasn't made many mistakes. But, he's made some. Another was the decision to take damaged goods WR Brandon Tate, over Mike Wallace (discussed in detail months ago, above). How much better would the Pats' "O" be if Brady had him as a deep threat? 
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : An average GM doesn't build a team that has been as good as the Pats year in and year out since 2001.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]


    An average GM hasn't had a first ballot HOF QB since 2001 either.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : An average GM hasn't had a first ballot HOF QB since 2001 either.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    So now you are anti-BB?  Is Rusty right about you?
     
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    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]     So...Leigh Bodden has been released by the Pats? What say you, True Champ, a/k/a "Glass Joe"?? 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    I say you are a sad man. The hour Bodden gets released you dig up this thread. Lol, this thread weighs heavily on your mind doesn't it big guy? Not that you will be able to read this response as you took the little man way out and placed me on ignore.

    Ironically the man you say haunts Bill Belichick just lashed out at his teams owners and is getting buried on the depth chart behind better players.

    Here is a question as your hindsight is remarkably clear... Knowing what we know now about Asante(Buckner) Samuel, do you still think BB should have paid him the 60 million? He appears to be one he!! of a team player doesn't he?

    Thought so, I don't think BB is losing any sleep over this one, and Leigh Bodden was a good corner for us in 2009 and must not have been the same after his multiple injuries, but I'm sure an "objective" fan like you will bash him all the way out the door.

    Hey do you still think Tom Brady's knee injury was a result of his, "lack of focus"?????

    Good try buddy.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Agreed.  He was a nice player, but definitely not worth what he got paid by Philly. He's no Ty Law.
    Posted by 423206852231dc13f5b2e36577a3bcfa[/QUOTE]


    Samuel was an average CB who couldn't play the run but could jump a route. Law was a shutdown monster I own you cover corner. They aren't even on the same planet in quality.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :      As I stated at great length previously above, I'd take Samuel, a/k/a "butterfingers", any day of the week, over the Bodden, Wheatley, and Butler cocktail...and recoup the two wasted second round draft choices on those clowns.  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    Problem is; butterfingers costs one hell of a lot more than any of those guys.

    If he was worth the money, he would be here.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Samuel was an average CB who couldn't play the run but could jump a route. Law was a shutdown monster I own you cover corner. They aren't even on the same planet in quality.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Nice work Parelli, Some here think(not saying any names but his self proclaimed nickname is "Big Bull")  that the Patriots are haunted by not making Asante the highest paid CB in the league. Pretty sure I'd rather re-sign guys like Tom Brady and Vince Wilfork, then give a one dimensional CB, who is the opposite of clutch 60 million dollars.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    I thought Asante only got 36 million?  where did you get 60 million?

    Everyone can say what they want after a Sb hyped team went 2-4 and now you blame Samuel?  Everyone wants out of there now, but from 08-10, he did what they wanted him to which is get INT's, if he was never a tackler, surely Reid new this and wanted his playmaking ability.

    Im not saying Tex is right or that Asante is haunting us, but lets call it fair.

    It wasnt 60 million and not a boatload more than Bodden got, and we only got 5 lousy picks from bodden on a horrible 09 team that had no heart(words from coach)

    To keep saying he kept us from perfection is  dum b.  A lot of things have to happen to choke to a less inferior team and offense was at the top of the list....  Dont try to sell me on Brady driving for the last score....what happened the 55 minutes before that??

    The defense played well all game and were gassed by games end and werent aided by bonehead calls from Dean Pee's....an engage 8 defense from the 10 yard line leaving Hobbs alone on their best player??

     
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    [QUOTE] It wasnt 60 million and not a boatload more than Bodden got
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Um no.  He got a 6 year 56 million contract.  That is huge money.  That is almost Ty Law money.  Samuel is nowhere near the same league.
     
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    [QUOTE]I thought Asante only got 36 million?  where did you get 60 million? Everyone can say what they want after a Sb hyped team went 2-4 and now you blame Samuel?  Everyone wants out of there now, but from 08-10, he did what they wanted him to which is get INT's, if he was never a tackler, surely Reid new this and wanted his playmaking ability. Im not saying Tex is right or that Asante is haunting us, but lets call it fair. It wasnt 60 million and not a boatload more than Bodden got, and we only got 5 lousy picks from bodden on a horrible 09 team that had not heart(words from coach) To keep saying he kept us from perfection is  dum b.  A lot of things have to happen to choke to a less inferior team and offense was at the top of the list....  Dont try to sell me on Brady driving for the last score....what happened the 55 minutes before that?? The defense played well all game and were gassed by games end and werent aided by bonehead calls from Dean Pee's....an engage 8 defense from the 10 yard line leaving Hobbs alone on their best player??
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    six-year, $56 million contract
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : I say you are a sad man. The hour Bodden gets released you dig up this thread. Lol, this thread weighs heavily on your mind doesn't it big guy?
     
    RESPONSE: Judging from your vile, lengthy response, it obviously weighed heavily on your feeble mind, Joe...LOL!!!

    Not that you will be able to read this response as you took the little man way out and placed me on ignore. Ironically the man you say haunts Bill Belichick just lashed out at his teams owners and is getting buried on the depth chart behind better players.
     
    RESPONSE: Oh, I see, Joe. So now your arguing that Bodden was a better player than Asante....LOL!!!

    Here is a question as your hindsight is remarkably clear...
     
    RESPONSE: My "hindsight is remarkably clear"?? I was saying that Bodden was vastly overrated months ago. That's hindsight?

    Knowing what we know now about Asante(Buckner) Samuel, do you still think BB should have paid him the 60 million?
     
    RESPONSE: Idiots like you point to that one play, and blame Asante...as if that Manning pass was tossed right in his hands. But, those of us who remember the game know that it was a difficult chance...not like the grounder that went through Billy Buc's legs. Furthermore, even a simpleton like you should realize by now that NFL contracts as usually back-loaded, and not fully guaranteed. Due primarily to the huge money Asante is owed over the last few years of his deal, the Eagles are desperately trying to get something for him via a trade...or they will be forced to release him for financial reasons. 

    He appears to be one he!! of a team player doesn't he? Thought so, I don't think BB is losing any sleep over this one, and Leigh Bodden was a good corner for us in 2009 and must not have been the same after his multiple injuries, but I'm sure an "objective" fan like you will bash him all the way out the door.
     
    RESPONSE: It is not I who kicked him off the team. BB did.

    Hey do you still think Tom Brady's knee injury was a result of his, "lack of focus"????? Good try buddy.

    RESPONSE: Stick to the myth, Joe...like the spygate haters do.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
     
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    [QUOTE]I agree. I am shocked that Babe made a good point for once.  He's made two today, actually. hehe
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I even let your Brady dig slide without comment today. I'm slipping.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    My bad babe....I didnt remember it being that much,.,,,but that just proves he did the right thing....if he got that much'

    how much you think the Pats offered him?

    3-5 years for 18-30 million if he was lucky..


    I think Asante and Bodden are in similar spots.  You sign 5 year deals and when the big money kicks in for the last 2 years, you get released. This is football 101 and happens on every team...doesnt mean they hate him...but they only really intended on keeping them for a few years.

    Ty is the only guy I saw who actually got all his money from that 50 mill/deal he got while Carrol was here
     
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    [QUOTE]if he got that much' how much you think the Pats offered him? 3-5 years for 18-30 million if he was lucky.. 
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Considering the year before he left he was franchised for 8 million a year I think that estimate is a bit low.
     
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    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]My bad babe....I didnt remember it being that much,.,,,but that just proves he did the right thing....if he got that much' how much you think the Pats offered him? 3-5 years for 18-30 million if he was lucky.. I think Asante and Bodden are in similar spots.  You sign 5 year deals and when the big money kicks in for the last 2 years, you get released. This is football 101 and happens on every team...doesnt mean they hate him...but they only really intended on keeping them for a few years. Ty is the only guy I saw who actually got all his money from that 50 mill/deal he got while Carrol was here
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    I never criticized Samuel for going for the money. And unlike cretins such as Branch, Seymour and Mankins he honored his contract and did not hold out.

    My problem with him is that he is merely a ball hawking average CB, and he dropped our perfect season.
     
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    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Considering the year before he left he was franchised for 8 million a year I think that estimate is a bit low.
    Posted by 423206852231dc13f5b2e36577a3bcfa[/QUOTE]

    Basically the guy has been paid a million bucks per pass route he has jumped, because he certainly hasn't been paid because he can cover any better than a whole bunch of mediocre guys out there.
     
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    thats fair babe, and I know the answer to this....but do you think the offense should take any blame for that debacle that night. Do you think they held up their end of the bargain? Please leave your man love for Brady out the eqaution and answer from an NFL fans perspective

    Pats offense averaged 31 ppg in 07'

    Pats defense gave up 17 ppg in 07

    By my count the defense did what it did all year and the offense couldnt even put up half of what they normally did..

    we lost 17-14
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : I say you are a sad man. The hour Bodden gets released you dig up this thread. Lol, this thread weighs heavily on your mind doesn't it big guy? Not that you will be able to read this response as you took the little man way out and placed me on ignore. Ironically the man you say haunts Bill Belichick just lashed out at his teams owners and is getting buried on the depth chart behind better players. Here is a question as your hindsight is remarkably clear... Knowing what we know now about Asante(Buckner) Samuel, do you still think BB should have paid him the 60 million? He appears to be one he!! of a team player doesn't he? Thought so, I don't think BB is losing any sleep over this one, and Leigh Bodden was a good corner for us in 2009 and must not have been the same after his multiple injuries, but I'm sure an "objective" fan like you will bash him all the way out the door. Hey do you still think Tom Brady's knee injury was a result of his, "lack of focus"????? Good try buddy.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    You said yourself that Samuel was a top five guy earlier in this thread, so wouldn't that make you mistaken as well?

    Furthermore, give TP some credit dude.

    Bashing a guy on the way out the door, and talking about hindisght is NOT what happened here. 

    In this thread he was questioning Bodden earlier. That is not hindsight ... it's called seeing things for how they are. Then having something in line with your insights come true. 

    That is how football analysis works. 

    Samuel was never top five IMO. But top ten really ... and the bottom half for sure of the bottom five. He has holes in his game. However, just as I said after he went elsewhere, his salary would be a 'going rate' in a few years because of the price-premium on good corners and the proliferation of spread offenses and consquential proliferation of nickel-dime defenses. 

    And $60 million may be the 'total' value, but the guaranteed value is much, much less. $20 million guaranteed with the last two season's salaries eating up $18million. Add another 4.5 million in incentives tied to those two seasons, and you end up with a contract that was more like 4 years at $8.45 million. The "Franchise Tag" value on a corner in 2007, his contract season, was $7.79 million. In 2011 it is a whopping $14 million. If he was a top-five corner coming into 2011 as you said, he was woefully underpaid, considering they top five average a 70% increase over his average salary in that period. 

    He may have shot his mouth off in Philly, but the guy has delivered on the field there, and the team's ownership should be questioned (though not in the media by players). He was wrong to say something, but right in his assessment that the team did treat the offseason like a 'fantasy football' draft. They didn't need Asomugha, and needed offensive lineman. They could have had two quality OL players, and Asomugha looks like a wierdly placed luxury at this point. 

    Meanwhile he lead the NFL in interceptions 2009 and 2010. He has made the pro-bowl in 2008-9 & 10. An at a salary that is close to half what top five corners are making now. 

    Bodden, on the other hand, has made $12 million in the new contract, $4.3 in year one salary, $6 in guaranteed bonuses, and just under half of his $3.9 million for this season. He started zero games. He made zero interceptions. And he is now out the door. I will  admit I thought they should have resigned him. But the worst case scenario occured. His resigning (in admitted hindsight) was a big mistake. 

    I won't say whether he or Bodden 'haunt' NE, because it's a long discussion that involves basically restructuring all the roster moves in that time around signing him, which would radically change the picture. But it's evident that Samuel is A.) a better player than anyone currently playing corner for NE, and B.) a bargain compared to Bodden's 4 year deal.

    So, 1:1, it's not even conversation. Since Bodden was re-upped Philly's paid Samuel (pro-rated so far this season as well) in that 1.5 seasons about the same at a rough $12 million. 

    I think it's too hard to reconstruct what the rest of the roster would look like, but from a performance vs financials standpoint ...  the Samuel deal looks sparkling compared to the Bodden deal. 

    And that is really a shame. 

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : I never criticized Samuel for going for the money. And unlike cretins such as Branch, Seymour and Mankins he honored his contract and did not hold out. My problem with him is that he is merely a ball hawking average CB, and he dropped our perfect season.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Samuel was selected to the pro-bowl in his first two years with Philly (2009-10). Now that's earning your money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asante_Samuel 

         He signed a six-year, $57 million contract with the Eagles in 2008. But, no doubt, Philly paid through the nose to get him. He's earning $5.9mil. this year, $8.4 million next year, and $10.4 million in 2013. He doesn't want to be traded...but has to know that he'll never get paid those hefty 2012-13 amounts...and he doesn't want to end up on a bad team: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1127/asante-samuel  

         Leigh Bodden's deal was a 4 year, $22mil. deal, with $10mil. guaranteed, and $14mil. owed and payable over the first two years: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4980371

           
     
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    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Um no.  He got a 6 year 56 million contract.  That is huge money.  That is almost Ty Law money.  Samuel is nowhere near the same league.
    Posted by 423206852231dc13f5b2e36577a3bcfa[/QUOTE]

    Their contracts weren't off by light years. If you take away all of Samuel's funny money, he was making less than the advertised $9.5 (or whatever) million. He only makes that if the team doesn't restructure his deal.

    And $9.5 million, these days, is a rock solid rate for a very good corner (sadly). The franchise value is $14 million for this season. That is enormous. It will likely come down next season, but will still be higher than what Samuel makes, and not as high as what Law would be making right now, in his prime. 
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : You said yourself that Samuel was a top five guy earlier in this thread, so wouldn't that make you mistaken as well? Furthermore, give TP some credit dude. Bashing a guy on the way out the door, and talking about hindisght is NOT what happened here.  In this thread he was questioning Bodden earlier. That is not hindsight ... it's called seeing things for how they are. Then having something in line with your insights come true.  That is how football analysis works.  Samuel was never top five IMO. But top ten really ... and the bottom half for sure of the bottom five. He has holes in his game. However, just as I said after he went elsewhere, his salary would be a 'going rate' in a few years because of the price-premium on good corners and the proliferation of spread offenses and consquential proliferation of nickel-dime defenses.  And $60 million may be the 'total' value, but the guaranteed value is much, much less. $20 million guaranteed with the last two season's salaries eating up $18million. Add another 4.5 million in incentives tied to those two seasons, and you end up with a contract that was more like 4 years at $8.45 million. The "Franchise Tag" value on a corner in 2007, his contract season, was $7.79 million. In 2011 it is a whopping  $14 million. If he was a top-five corner coming into 2011 as you said, he was woefully underpaid, considering they top five average  a 70% increase over his average salary in that period.  He may have shot his mouth off in Philly, but the guy has delivered on the field there, and the team's ownership should be questioned (though not in the media by players). He was wrong to say something, but right in his assessment that the team did treat the offseason like a 'fantasy football' draft. They didn't need  Asomugha, and needed offensive lineman. They could have had two quality OL players, and Asomugha looks like a wierdly placed luxury at this point.  Meanwhile he lead the NFL in interceptions 2009 and 2010. He has made the pro-bowl in 2008-9 & 10. An at a salary that is close to half what top five corners are making now.  Bodden, on the other hand, has made $12 million in the new contract, $4.3 in year one salary, $6 in guaranteed bonuses, and just under half of his $3.9 million for this season. He started zero games. He made zero interceptions. And he is now out the door. I will  admit I thought they should have resigned him. But the worst case scenario occured. His resigning (in admitted hindsight ) was a big mistake.  I won't say whether he or Bodden 'haunt' NE, because it's a long discussion that involves basically restructuring all the roster moves in that time around signing him, which would radically change the picture. But it's evident that Samuel is A.) a better player than anyone currently playing corner for NE, and B.) a bargain compared to Bodden's 4 year deal. So, 1:1, it's not even conversation. Since Bodden was re-upped Philly's paid Samuel (pro-rated so far this season as well) in that 1.5 seasons about the same at a rough $12 million.  I think it's too hard to reconstruct what the rest of the roster would look like, but from a performance vs financials standpoint ...  the Samuel deal looks sparkling compared to the Bodden deal.  And that is really a shame. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Z, the voice of reason..


    What will they talk about now...lol
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :      Samuel was selected to the pro-bowl in his first two years with Philly (2009-10). Now that's earning your money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asante_Samuel        He signed a six-year, $57 million contract with the Eagles in 2008. But, no doubt, Philly paid through the nose to get him. He's earning $5.9mil. this year, $8.4 million next year, and $10.4 million in 2013. He doesn't want to be traded...but has to know that he'll never get paid those hefty 2012-13 amounts...and he doesn't want to end up on a bad team: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1127/asante-samuel         Leigh Bodden's deal was a 4 year, $22mil. deal, with $10mil. guaranteed, and $14mil. owed and payable over the first two years: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4980371        
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, Meriweather made some pro-bowls too.
     
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    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Yeah, Meriweather made some pro-bowls too.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Grasping at straws...LOL!!!
     

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