Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    im not haunted...

    if samual was worth half of what he got he would have made the intereception to seal the undefeatd season and cement the team as the best ever...

    thy are still "one" of the best ever... with more to come... not all players regardless of where they are drafted pan out...look at all the undrafted players that do what they do  ...and if people "knew" what wallace "would" become he would have gone in the top 5.  

    no one.... and i have said it before....no one has done what bill has done in the last 10 years... with only pittsburg coming close   

    i have been following the pats for a long time and still feel it has never been better ..they are certainly due     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : So you think if Samuel had made that pick(which was absolutely catch-able) then Belichick would have forked over 60 mill?? I think BB would have stuck to his value system(which he always has) and Samuel would have been gone SB hero or not. BTW, BB's system has coincidentally made us the best team in football over the past decade. I don't really think he is haunted by anything.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Yes, I do. BB values top CBs much more than a WR. So...the analogy to Branch made previously doesn't hold water.

         If Asante had made that catch, the 2007 Patriots would have been recognized as the greatest team in NFL history. Samuel would have been hailed as a hero by Pats' fans, who would have been clamouring for his return. Bob Kraft likely would have privately asked BB to do whatever he could, within reason, to get a deal done.

         But...that aside...again...look at the resources the Patriots spent trying to replace Samuel. Free agent dollars on Delta O'Neal, and the injury prone Leigh Bodden...two wasted second round draft choices, and a #1 pick. It would have been cheaper all around to have resigned him...and the Patriots would have been a better team with him, in 2008-11. The guy was/is a play-maker. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    Samuel is extremely good at jumping routes in zone coverage and getting the pick. But he's not a top cover corner, and with his gambling style he gives up some big plays. BB's strength as a personnel guy is that he balances short- and long-term interests well.  A lot of personnel guys make short-term decisions that might help the team for a year or two, but then they end up with a lot of expensive dead weight on the roster three, four, or five years down the road and not a lot of options to get better because they have limited draft picks and limted tradeable players.  BB manages his decisions well so that he seems always to have picks and tradeable players available so that his options are always open.  

    In 2008, BB clearly didn't think a gambling corner was what he wanted as a long-term solution.  So he wasn't going to sign Samuel for the kind of long-term, high-cost deal Samuel was looking for.  Given that there wasn't an alternative, BB let him walk.  If you want to criticize BB, criticize him for not having a good back-up plan to replace Samuel after he was gone.  But the decision to let Samuel walk wasn't necessarily a bad one.  

    Don't forget as well that Samuel was a fourth round pick in 2003 who was not expected to be anything special.  BB deserves some credit, I think, for finding great value in the low rounds.  But Samuel has his limits as a cover guy and BB knows that.  Apparently the Eagles do to, because Samuel seems to have sunk on their depth chart.  Rememeber the Eagles secondary gave up more touchdowns than any other secondary in football last year. You think that might have something to do with Andy Reid bringing in not just one, but two starting level corners to "supplement" Samuel?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]Samuel is extremely good at jumping routes in zone coverage and getting the pick. But he's not a top cover corner, and with his gambling style he gives up some big plays. BB's strength as a personnel guy is that he balances short- and long-term interests well.  A lot of personnel guys make short-term decisions that might help the team for a year or two, but then they end up with a lot of expensive dead weight on the roster three, four, or five years down the road and not a lot of options to get better because they have limited draft picks and limted tradeable players.  BB manages his decisions well so that he seems always to have picks and tradeable players available so that his options are always open.   In 2008, BB clearly didn't think a gambling corner was what he wanted as a long-term solution.  So he wasn't going to sign Samuel for the kind of long-term, high-cost deal Samuel was looking for.  Given that there wasn't an alternative, BB let him walk.
     
    RESPONSE: I think you're underrating Samuel. I don't recall all the "big plays" he gave up at CB. I do recall many of the big plays he made in the secondary.  I agree that BB didn't want to pay him big money. But, the fact that Samuel continued to play well after being released...and that the Patriots could not replace him until spending a first round pick in 2010 on Devin McCourty, seems to bear out that  

     If you want to criticize BB, criticize him for not having a good back-up plan to replace Samuel after he was gone.  But the decision to let Samuel walk wasn't necessarily a bad one.   Don't forget as well that Samuel was a fourth round pick in 2003 who was not expected to be anything special.  BB deserves some credit, I think, for finding great value in the low rounds.  But Samuel has his limits as a cover guy and BB knows that.  Apparently the Eagles do to, because Samuel seems to have sunk on their depth chart.  Rememeber the Eagles secondary gave up more touchdowns than any other secondary in football last year. You think that might have something to do with Andy Reid bringing in not just one, but two starting level corners to "supplement" Samuel?

    RESPONSE: For the 5th time...this thread was not meant to criticize BB...but just to stir up some good Pats' football talk, as we wind our way to the start of the regular season. Everyone here knows that BB's good decisions far outweigh his bad ones. But...getting back to Samuel, the Pats it cost the Pats free agent dollars on Delta O'Neal and Leigh Bodden, two wasted second round draft choices, and a first round pick (McCourty) to get an adequate replacement for Samuel. So...my point is that it would have been cheaper in resources if the Pats had resigned him.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

         With the release of Brandon Meriweather today...I've added him to my list.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]Calling Brandon Tate a bust after only 1 season is a stretch to say the least. Some people just cant wait to call a guy a bust.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

         Uhhhh...you were saying??
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Anyone that calls Bodden a bust is a complete moron. He's solid, borderline spectacular. He's someone that at least 40-50% of the teams would kill for right now. He's not flashy and he doesn't make highlight plays. He just covers tight, makes plays on the ball, and does what's asked of him. Don't know about you guys but I'll take that.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

         Surely you jest.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : "   1.) Decision Not to Sign Asante Samuel: To replace Samuel, the Patriots eventually spent free agent dollars on CBs Deltha O'Neal,and Leigh Bodden. They also spent two second round draft choices on Terrence Wheatley and Darius Butler.  The failure of these players led to the Patriots using their #1 draft choice in 2010 on CB Devin McCourty. "    From the OP, Texas Pat using his typical spin to insinuate that Leigh Bodden is a failure. He probably thinks he is a failure because Bodden was injured. Its in the same line of thinking as when Tex said Brady's knee injury was due to his lack of focus, and that his lack of focus was due to his inability to get over the 07 SB. You can't make this stuff up!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Bodden has not produced as hoped due to injury. In fact, he's hurt again, now. What difference does it make if a guy doesn't produce because he doesn't play well, or because he's hurt? The bottom line is still the same...the guy didn't produce.

         As for your attributing comments to me about Brady...please get it right, and don't take my comments out of context. I say something to the effect that Brady didn't appear to have his head in the KC game...that he still seemed preoccupied by that awful SB loss to the Giants. The whole team came out flat on that 2008 opening day game against the Chiefs. I never said that it was the reason Brady got hurt. I said that his mindset and perceived sluggishness that day were contributing factors that led to his injury.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]Bodden also does something that Samuel won't- TACKLE!
    Posted by Salcon[/QUOTE]

         How do you know? When's the last time you've seen Bodden on the field? 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Ask Oakland if Namde was a "failure" because he didn't catch a lot of  interceptions? If that is your criteria for what makes a good corner then you are further away from reality then I originally suspected. Oh wait, maybe making "the pro bowl" is what elevates a player to above mediocrity in your opinion. Bodden is a physical cb who is one of the few remaining whom can wrap up and tackle. He plays tight coverage and was a diamond in the rough for a 09 pats team with a depleted secondary. Guys get injured in the most physical sport in the world all the time. It doesn't mean they are failures and it doesn't mean they weren't focused as you say Brady wasn't in 08! lol Also 22 million(Bodden) is not 60 million(asante) I'm glad you weren't making personnel decisions for our team. You would have crippled us for years with your asante deal. BTW that ball went right through asante's hands as he jumped a foot and a half  off the ground. Pretty sure he had a vertical leap of over 18 inches at the combine so yes I say Samuel that choker should have caught eli's under pressure duck ball, especially with the Superbowl and undefeated season on the line. As mentioned above by several other posters, you can name things that went wrong for every team in the league but the fact remains that this team was rebuilding for the 2 years after Brady was hurt and still went 24-8. Enough with your "koolaid" b.s it's something your arch enemy underdog would say........you two sure have a lot in common!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Hey...Glass Joe...don't choke gulping down the koolaid...LOL!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    That comment has trollish qualities.

    [QUOTE]     With the release of Brandon Meriweather today...I've added him to my list.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]People forget that the Patriots got a 4th round pick for Maroney last year. 
    Posted by msteven[/QUOTE]

          Which they immediately traded off to Seattle to re-acquire an older, far less explosive Deion Branch. Be honest...don't you think that Brandon Tate's failure to produce had something to do with this?  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : And a 3rd for Moss.  So, they took Ridley in the 3rd.  And Mallett.  Not too shabby on paper. Both Maroney and Moss are out of the NFL in 2011. As far as I can see, I don't see many other GMs trading starting players out of camp in 2010, and getting a 3rd and a 4th for those players who are no longer in the league the next year. Pretty silly return on each investment just as 7th rd Cassel in 2005 was for #34 overall 4 years later.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

         What was their "return" for Meriweather, Brandon Tate, and Terrence Wheatley?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

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    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]Please don't say Maroney was ruined becuase of that shoulder injury, that's jsut insane. He's didn't blow out a knee and he's not a pitcher who had to have tommy john surgery. Ligament replacement and maybe back surgery are the only injurys I feel are a good excuse as to why players don't return to themselves. How could a broken shoulder ruin someone's career the damn thing heals itself given enough time! That's just really reaching he was never good enough to be a first round back and our team would be a better one had we taken most other players in that first round. He was a major bust
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]

         What killed Maroney more than anything is that he developed a servere case of fumble-itis....after practically never fumbling his first three years in the league. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

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    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]I would add the decion to trade Deion Branch instead of re-signing him in 2006.  The Patriots making it all the way to the AFCCG in '06, which was really the SB that year IMO, was a testament to Brady.  If Brady had Branch in that game they go on to the SB and smoke the Bears.  Instead, he has to depend on the likes of Reche Caldwell, Doug Gabriel, Jabar Gaffney and Chad Jackson.  Then we use the '07 1st round pick we got in the trade to take Merriweather, who's been a huge disappointment.   
    Posted by ShiningWizard[/QUOTE]

         Can't agree with you here. Branch did nothing in Seattle, except get hurt.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]I for one saw it as a catchable pick. 
    Posted by garytx[/QUOTE]

         I never said that it wasn't catchable...just that it was a difficult chance, and would have been a great play had he made it.

         Gary, or somebody...I can't go back and watch any part of that game without getting angry, and sick to my stomach. If you still have the game recorded, do me a favor and go back, and watch that play again. I remember it as a difficult chance...as Asante was trying to catch a ball thrown high and to his left. Please let me know if I'm wrong. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

         The release of Brandon Tate makes the decisions to pass on Clay Matthews and WR Mike Wallace look even worse. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]     The release of Brandon Tate makes the decisions to pass on Clay Matthews and WR Mike Wallace look even worse. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    It was a head scratcher to me when they drafted this guy - coming off a knee injury - not ready to play - hadn't done much of anything at receiver...plus we had other needs and the guy was a third rounder.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :      I never said that it wasn't catchable...just that it was a difficult chance, and would have been a great play had he made it.      Gary, or somebody...I can't go back and watch any part of that game without getting angry, and sick to my stomach. If you still have the game recorded, do me a favor and go back, and watch that play again. I remember it as a difficult chance...as Asante was trying to catch a ball thrown high and to his left. Please let me know if I'm wrong. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]



    Asante was standing there watching the ball come like a center fielder. He jumped as it came because he was sort of close to the sideline but had plenty of room to come down, and just missed it. This was the Lombardi Trophy gift wrapped special delivery and butterfingers TOTALLY BLEW IT. What a fn loser. One of the worst plays I have ever seen. The pass was a softball pitch. It was so blatantly blown one has to wonder if Samuel had bet on the Giants. If any of our receivers missed this exactly this way for a TD catch they would be demonized for all eternity by Pat's fans.

    Here is your perfect season totally blown. He will never be forgiven by any reasonable Pat's fan for sucking so bad at the most critical moment in our history. He should be in prison for this. He should be banned from football. He should be forced to wear dresses the rest of his life. I would ban him from ever stepping foot in New England again. I wouldn't want him to play for us if he would play for free. And amazingly this chump somehow skates on this world class choke.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6BzVqSu8_g
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots :RESPONSE: I think you're underrating Samuel. I don't recall all the "big plays" he gave up at CB. I do recall many of the big plays he made in the secondary.  I agree that BB didn't want to pay him big money. But, the fact that Samuel continued to play well after being released...and that the Patriots could not replace him until spending a first round pick in 2010 on Devin McCourty, seems to bear out that  

    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Samuel actually had a worse DPR in 2007 than Hobbs. He is and was the classic one trick pony. He jumps pass routes well. Other than that he is as average as they come, he blew the biggest moment in Super Bowl history and gave it to Tyree.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]     The release of Brandon Tate makes the decisions to pass on Clay Matthews and WR Mike Wallace look even worse. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    TPat, when are you going to start using the "I can't believe they passed on Suh" argument? And your complaints about bashing BB are totally correct. that is pretty much all you do. And since you take drafts out of context to make your arguments, which are pittifully naive, don't complain when others take your comments out of context.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from McFEETers. Show McFEETers's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    it seems to me that belicick is having to constantly make personnel decisiions
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Five Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : Asante was standing there watching the ball come like a center fielder. He jumped as it came because he was sort of close to the sideline but had plenty of room to come down, and just missed it. This was the Lombardi Trophy gift wrapped special delivery and butterfingers TOTALLY BLEW IT. What a fn loser. One of the worst plays I have ever seen. The pass was a softball pitch. It was so blatantly blown one has to wonder if Samuel had bet on the Giants. If any of our receivers missed this exactly this way for a TD catch they would be demonized for all eternity by Pat's fans. Here is your perfect season totally blown. He will never be forgiven by any reasonable Pat's fan for sucking so bad at the most critical moment in our history. He should be in prison for this. He should be banned from football. He should be forced to wear dresses the rest of his life. I would ban him from ever stepping foot in New England again. I wouldn't want him to play for us if he would play for free. And amazingly this chump somehow skates on this world class choke. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6BzVqSu8_g
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Wow!! And I thought that I was way overboard upset over that loss...LOL!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots : TPat, when are you going to start using the "I can't believe they passed on Suh" argument?
     
    RESPONSE: Come on, rt...Su was the second overall pick in 2009. How can such a hypothetical argument be made when the Patriots never had a chance to pass on him? 

    And your complaints about bashing BB are totally correct. that is pretty much all you do.
     
    RESPONSE: For the 5th time...the purpose of this thread is not to bash BB. We all know that he's made far more good personnel decisions than bad. The purpose was to initiate some good Patriots' football talk, as we grind our way down to opening day.

    And since you take drafts out of context to make your arguments, which are pittifully naive, don't complain when others take your comments out of context.

    RESPONSE: Cut out the generalities. Please point out why you think my positions on this thread are "naive"...and how I "take drafts out of context"...whatever that means.
    Posted by rtuinila[/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from McFEETers. Show McFEETers's posts

    Re: Six Personnel Errors That Haunt the Patriots

    if he was wearing dresses in prison his assante would be wrecked
     
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