So I watched some film . . .

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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:



    In your review, did you see mass Holding going on with Vellano and Jones trying to run and unable to with their jerseys yanked off their pads? lol

    I did.



    So earlier in the year when Wilfork and Kelly were dominating, those offensive linemen weren't holding, but with Vellano, Chris Jones and the rest, they hold on every play and that's why they sux?

    OK got it, and here I thought you were going to give us some far fetched theory...

    Makes perfect sense.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    I hope this thread doesn't go down hill from here like it appears to be doing.

    It's the first one is a while where there is some good football talk going on.

    Although I don't have anything to add as my knowledge of the game isn't up to the same  level as some of you guys I'm enjoying the reading.

     

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:

    Hey thanks for the analysis Vince Lombardi! Seems you got it all figured out.

    Tell me oh sage of football what's your answer to the pats just s ucking in the playoffs? What's your answer to Brady just falling apart in the playoffs?

    Maybe Bb should hire you..beter yet all of you.Put down the pats pint glass,take off the bruins sweater and the redox Tshirt along with your celtics jacket and start focussing on God family and friends

    NOT the pats ,celts,resux and bruins.There is more to life then sporting teams that don't give a rats about you..only your wallet.

    Learn from Leon

    So my horribly accented neighbors from the North.Is everybody having a productive day or are you just pontificating about how much football you think you know?

    Watched films??Really? Learn from Leon



    What's your answer for why the Jets sucks period... Can't even make it to the playoffs? 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    I watched/concentrated a bit on the defensive line while the game was going on too and I've got to say it's a huge problem. They just get engulfed - it's pretty simple really - they are not big and strong enough to handle some of the stuff they are expected to do in this defense. At times I watched Velano and Jones literally get turned and walked right out of the play, it was like they were on dancing with the stars. Then you can add a guy like Hightower not taking on blocks very well, which is pretty disturbing considering his size...I thought they might be able to survive this because of the shear size of Hightower and Spikes to some extent, but it's not happening. The real shame is knowing that if Wilfork and Kelly were healthy (with a guy like Jones subbing in) everything might of worked out.

    The problem I have is that we only brought in Kelly and Armstead this off season, and that was a big risk (which didn't pay off). The risk was Kelly was old and coming off a bad season (I think his age didn't help his non contact injury) and with Armstead the risk was injury and the unkown in his playing ability.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    The problem I have is that we only brought in Kelly and Armstead this off season, and that was a big risk (which didn't pay off). The risk was Kelly was old and coming off a bad season (I think his age didn't help his non contact injury) and with Armstead the risk was injury and the unkown in his playing ability.



    Kelly hadn't missed a game in 5 years.  Wilfork had only missed 6 games in his entire career.  They weren't young, but they're not ancient either.  I mean heck Ted Washington played until he was practically 40.  The guy I wanted was Desmond Bryant and he just got put on the NFI list because of an irregular heartbeat so that wouldn't have exactly worked out.  I think the collective odds of both Wilfork and Kelly suffering season ending injuries and Armstead being lost for the season because of a health issue unrelated to his prior heart problems was pretty dam low.  I don't think the risk was that high.  It just feels that way because we got the worst possible outcome imo.

    Plus most of the defensive lineman available in FA weren't the kind of big 300+ guys we really need with Wilfork and Kelly gone.  There of course was the draft, but I would argue that looking back at it that most of the DTs that would have been available to us haven't shown that much thus far.  It's just hard to find 300+ plus guys that are both good and young.  They either get scooped up before we pick or never make it to FA because they are so hard to find.  The fact that we got Wilfork where we did in the 1st round is an anomaly. 

    So yeah I agree with you that the DT position kind of sucks right now, but I don't think the risk we took was as irresponsible as you seem to think although we are obviously getting burned by the outcome.  Just my 2 cents.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    The DT situation is the only thing that gets me down. I think we are left with bend don't break. I think the only thing that can save us is BB scheming and changing up the D . We really need ZTalib and Dennardand to cover 1on1 and have an extra man in the box

     

    Fortunatly our O is coming on and is much more balanced. I really am not in favor of having 100 catch recvers, but more spreading it around and solid running

    thanks pro for your insights on the tape

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

     

    Where do you get the All 22 coach's film?

     



    NFL sells it, Mighty.  Here in Canada it's part of the Game Pass package, which costs about $280 a year and gets you all games live and also archived in three versions: broadcast, condensed, and coaches film.  Through the package, I van actually see the past three years of games on film.  

     

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

    The problem I have is that we only brought in Kelly and Armstead this off season, and that was a big risk (which didn't pay off). The risk was Kelly was old and coming off a bad season (I think his age didn't help his non contact injury) and with Armstead the risk was injury and the unkown in his playing ability.

     



    Kelly hadn't missed a game in 5 years.  Wilfork had only missed 6 games in his entire career.  They weren't young, but they're not ancient either.  I mean heck Ted Washington played until he was practically 40.  The guy I wanted was Desmond Bryant and he just got put on the NFI list because of an irregular heartbeat so that wouldn't have exactly worked out.  I think the collective odds of both Wilfork and Kelly suffering season ending injuries and Armstead being lost for the season because of a health issue unrelated to his prior heart problems was pretty dam low.  I don't think the risk was that high.  It just feels that way because we got the worst possible outcome imo.

     

    Plus most of the defensive lineman available in FA weren't the kind of big 300+ guys we really need with Wilfork and Kelly gone.  There of course was the draft, but I would argue that looking back at it that most of the DTs that would have been available to us haven't shown that much thus far.  It's just hard to find 300+ plus guys that are both good and young.  They either get scooped up before we pick or never make it to FA because they are so hard to find.  The fact that we got Wilfork where we did in the 1st round is an anomaly. 

    So yeah I agree with you that the DT position kind of sucks right now, but I don't think the risk we took was as irresponsible as you seem to think although we are obviously getting burned by the outcome.  Just my 2 cents.



    Well I started a thread at the very beginning of free agency on the need to make signing a young defensive tackle a priority. My logic was that we have used a 350 pound, 32 year old, Vince Wilfork too much...we relied on him a bit too much because he is all we had. I thought sooner than later he was going to go down and we would be left thin. Add in us cutting both Deaderick and Love, I thought the situation was even more important - now I like the signing of Kelly and Armstead, but I still didn't think that was enough based off of age and uncertainty (Armstead). You can say whatever you want, but look at us now...look what happened...both of those older players went down with non contact injuries and the other guy hasn't even got on the field.

    If you want to talk about Ted Washington, go ahead, but if Wilfork only played two downs his entire career he'd play until he was 37 too, but he doesn't. As for Kelly, all those years of staying healthy mean nothing when you hit 32 and your tendons don't stretch like they used to - playing a crucial role after Wilfork went down didn't help either.

    Hey it's just my opinion...I didn't want this stuff to happen to our defense, but it did.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

    I'm going to try to go back and watch film from earlier in the season when we had those two in the game.  It will be interesting to see the difference in run defense.  Were they forcing the double teams that allowed the LBs to run free?  I think they were.  Now that's not happening.  Soapoaga just isn't dominating like Wilfork does.  He's easily handled by a guard, leaving the center free to get to the LB. 

     

     

    The really big differences between then and now is the time the opposing QB has in the pocket when passing, how multiple interior linemen are needed to stop both Wilfork and Kelly, that those two alone can command the interior with little help to stuff the run, how quickly the pocket collapses around the QB and how pressure was created only rushing four men leaving the remaining defenders free to make plays.



    Wozzy, I watched just a bit of the Tampa game on film.  In the first half, with both Kelly and Wilfork in, you see the difference instantly.  Those two guys get attention from three or four blockers on almost every play.  They and the blockers trying to control them just clog everything up.  On pass plays, they end up creating lanes for other rushers to get to the QB.  On run plays they force the RB to run into a pile of bodies or try to get around the pile, where an unblocked LB can stop him.  Mthurl described what he sees from the current set of DTs as "dancing with the stars."  That's a good analogy.  When you watch Kelly and Wilfork, what you see is more like a forty car pile up around two jack-knifing tractor trailers.  

     

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Not sure how many times they did this but i thought they blitzed the A gap with Collins and spikes on a couple of occassions and had some very good success.

    Pro, if you do go back and look at the entire game if you can take a look at the blitzes through the A gaps.

     

     



    Ghost . . . I did look for this.  In the second quarter they did blitz Collins through the A gap in a clear passing situation (with Keenum in shotgun).  I may have missed it, but I only saw the Collins blitz once.  Spikes blitzes a couple of times like that, but I wonder if that was more a run blitz from him.  (In two cases where he gets through the A gap, the Texans are in a running formation, though the play ends up a pass.)  They've got Spikes being fairly aggressive on some plays, attacking the middle of the line and almost playing tackle.  As I said earlier, they seem to use Hightower more as the read and react guy and Spikes more as the attacker (though Spikes is also in read and react mode most plays too--BB attacks only some of the time).  Generally, though, I think the scheme calls for Hightower to be a bit more conservative and stop anyone who gets past the first line of defense. Spikes often does the same, but sometimes is sent to join the first line as an attacker.  

    One other little wrinkle I noticed: They also ran a center of the line blitz with Nink at least once.  Nink lined up where Spikes or Hightower normally would and Chandler Jones was at tackle in front of him.  The two ran a stunt with Nink getting through.   

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Not sure how many times they did this but i thought they blitzed the A gap with Collins and spikes on a couple of occassions and had some very good success.

    Pro, if you do go back and look at the entire game if you can take a look at the blitzes through the A gaps.

     

     



    Ghost . . . I did look for this.  In the second quarter they did blitz Collins through the A gap in a clear passing situation (with Keenum in shotgun).  I may have missed it, but I only saw the Collins blitz once.  Spikes blitzes a couple of times like that, but I wonder if that was more a run blitz from him.  (In two cases where he gets through the A gap, the Texans are in a running formation, though the play ends up a pass.)  They've got Spikes being fairly aggressive on some plays, attacking the middle of the line and almost playing tackle.  As I said earlier, they seem to use Hightower more as the read and react guy and Spikes more as the attacker (though Spikes is also in read and react mode most plays too--BB attacks only some of the time).  Generally, though, I think the scheme calls for Hightower to be a bit more conservative and stop anyone who gets past the first line of defense. Spikes often does the same, but sometimes is sent to join the first line as an attacker.  

    One other little wrinkle I noticed: They also ran a center of the line blitz with Nink at least once.  Nink lined up where Spikes or Hightower normally would and Chandler Jones was at tackle in front of him.  The two ran a stunt with Nink getting through.   




    Thanks Pro for the feedback. It will be interesting to see how they attack Cleveland based on the QB issues cleveland has. I would imagine that BB will want to take away Josh gordon perhaps with talib underneath and a safety over the top.

    As far as passing downs in general go with the poor play of the cleveland Qbs perhaps they play some type of umbrella zone and only rush 4  making the QB have to make plays to beat them.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Not sure how many times they did this but i thought they blitzed the A gap with Collins and spikes on a couple of occassions and had some very good success.

    Pro, if you do go back and look at the entire game if you can take a look at the blitzes through the A gaps.

     

     



    Ghost . . . I did look for this.  In the second quarter they did blitz Collins through the A gap in a clear passing situation (with Keenum in shotgun).  I may have missed it, but I only saw the Collins blitz once.  Spikes blitzes a couple of times like that, but I wonder if that was more a run blitz from him.  (In two cases where he gets through the A gap, the Texans are in a running formation, though the play ends up a pass.)  They've got Spikes being fairly aggressive on some plays, attacking the middle of the line and almost playing tackle.  As I said earlier, they seem to use Hightower more as the read and react guy and Spikes more as the attacker (though Spikes is also in read and react mode most plays too--BB attacks only some of the time).  Generally, though, I think the scheme calls for Hightower to be a bit more conservative and stop anyone who gets past the first line of defense. Spikes often does the same, but sometimes is sent to join the first line as an attacker.  

    One other little wrinkle I noticed: They also ran a center of the line blitz with Nink at least once.  Nink lined up where Spikes or Hightower normally would and Chandler Jones was at tackle in front of him.  The two ran a stunt with Nink getting through.   




    Thanks Pro for the feedback. It will be interesting to see how they attack Cleveland based on the QB issues cleveland has. I would imagine that BB will want to take away Josh gordon perhaps with talib underneath and a safety over the top.

    As far as passing downs in general go with the poor play of the cleveland Qbs perhaps they play some type of umbrella zone and only rush 4  making the QB have to make plays to beat them.



    Yeah . . . I haven't looked at Cleveland in a while.  Maybe my project before Sunday will be to watch the tape of their last few games and see what I think might work. 

    This coaches tape makes every game a week-long activity!  (My poor football-hating wife . . . )

     

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Not sure how many times they did this but i thought they blitzed the A gap with Collins and spikes on a couple of occassions and had some very good success.

    Pro, if you do go back and look at the entire game if you can take a look at the blitzes through the A gaps.

     

     



    Ghost . . . I did look for this.  In the second quarter they did blitz Collins through the A gap in a clear passing situation (with Keenum in shotgun).  I may have missed it, but I only saw the Collins blitz once.  Spikes blitzes a couple of times like that, but I wonder if that was more a run blitz from him.  (In two cases where he gets through the A gap, the Texans are in a running formation, though the play ends up a pass.)  They've got Spikes being fairly aggressive on some plays, attacking the middle of the line and almost playing tackle.  As I said earlier, they seem to use Hightower more as the read and react guy and Spikes more as the attacker (though Spikes is also in read and react mode most plays too--BB attacks only some of the time).  Generally, though, I think the scheme calls for Hightower to be a bit more conservative and stop anyone who gets past the first line of defense. Spikes often does the same, but sometimes is sent to join the first line as an attacker.  

    One other little wrinkle I noticed: They also ran a center of the line blitz with Nink at least once.  Nink lined up where Spikes or Hightower normally would and Chandler Jones was at tackle in front of him.  The two ran a stunt with Nink getting through.   




    Thanks Pro for the feedback. It will be interesting to see how they attack Cleveland based on the QB issues cleveland has. I would imagine that BB will want to take away Josh gordon perhaps with talib underneath and a safety over the top.

    As far as passing downs in general go with the poor play of the cleveland Qbs perhaps they play some type of umbrella zone and only rush 4  making the QB have to make plays to beat them.



    Yeah . . . I haven't looked at Cleveland in a while.  Maybe my project before Sunday will be to watch the tape of their last few games and see what I think might work. 

    This coaches tape makes every game a week-long activity!  (My poor football-hating wife . . . )

     



    LOL... well your contributions here are much appreciated. look forward to the scouting. report.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

     

    Where do you get the All 22 coach's film?

     



    NFL sells it, Mighty.  Here in Canada it's part of the Game Pass package, which costs about $280 a year and gets you all games live and also archived in three versions: broadcast, condensed, and coaches film.  Through the package, I van actually see the past three years of games on film.  

     




    sounds like a bargain...  lol

      In the final analysis...  either scheme or personnel needs to make up for the losses of Wilfork and Kelly and mayo.   They need to keep trying different combinations and moving guys around to get the right mix and chemistry. 

    Last couple weeks showed how bad it can be...  Now we need some genius to emerge from the coaching staff.  like when they subbed in Collins and Fletcher against Denver and got some big plays.  Guys will feed off that.  

    Keep the rotation going with the DLs... I liked moving your studs like Jones and Carter insde for a differnt look and matchup.  Flip carter to the side where his moves will work better on a guy for instance.  Get Buccanon in there.   What about moving Nink inside at LB and pairing him with Fletcher...?  Do you get better downhill run defense...?   I dunno but I wouldn't be afraid to try stuff like that.

     

     

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    A slight digression here...

    PROLATE, could you please check if Ridley had both hands on the ball on his last fumble (vs Denver). I seem to remember he took his hand off just as he started turning. 

    His knee-jerk reaction to an oncoming tackler is to take his left hand off the ball in an effort to stiff arm the tackler. Unfortunately, doing that in heavy traffic, or when he's fighting for extra yards after contact, is what gets him in trouble.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    A slight digression here...

    PROLATE, could you please check if Ridley had both hands on the ball on his last fumble (vs Denver). I seem to remember he took his hand off just as he started turning. 

    His knee-jerk reaction to an oncoming tackler is to take his left hand off the ball in an effort to stiff arm the tackler. Unfortunately, doing that in heavy traffic, or when he's fighting for extra yards after contact, is what gets him in trouble.

     



    The coaches film doesn't show it (Denver LB blocks the view), but the broadcast feed (also available in this NFL Game Pass package) clearly shows him taking his left arm off the ball and trying to ward off the defender.  

     

     

     

    On a side note, you also see Dan Connolly blocking sidewiseSurprised

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    A slight digression here...

    PROLATE, could you please check if Ridley had both hands on the ball on his last fumble (vs Denver). I seem to remember he took his hand off just as he started turning. 

    His knee-jerk reaction to an oncoming tackler is to take his left hand off the ball in an effort to stiff arm the tackler. Unfortunately, doing that in heavy traffic, or when he's fighting for extra yards after contact, is what gets him in trouble.

     



    The coaches film doesn't show it (Denver LB blocks the view), but the broadcast feed (also available in this NFL Game Pass package) clearly shows him taking his left arm off the ball and trying to ward off the defender.  

     

     

     

    On a side note, you also see Dan Connolly blocking sidewiseSurprised



    Thanks.

    I really think he can dramatically cut his fumble rate if he can just eliminate that habit.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    A slight digression here...

    PROLATE, could you please check if Ridley had both hands on the ball on his last fumble (vs Denver). I seem to remember he took his hand off just as he started turning. 

    His knee-jerk reaction to an oncoming tackler is to take his left hand off the ball in an effort to stiff arm the tackler. Unfortunately, doing that in heavy traffic, or when he's fighting for extra yards after contact, is what gets him in trouble.

     



    The coaches film doesn't show it (Denver LB blocks the view), but the broadcast feed (also available in this NFL Game Pass package) clearly shows him taking his left arm off the ball and trying to ward off the defender.  

     

     

     

    On a side note, you also see Dan Connolly blocking sidewiseSurprised



    Thanks.

    I really think he can dramatically cut his fumble rate if he can just eliminate that habit.



    Good observation.  He covered up nicely ahead of the hit, but at the last moment did what you observed. 

     

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

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