So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to NoahJustin's comment:

    Your right, my bad! Is there any FA Safety out there now that you think we could afford now that you like?



         Bernard Pollard.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    Again, a good strong safety doesn't "cover" other than the occasional tightend, they play back and keep the action in front of them, even if he "lost a step" he would still be supremely faster and more athletic than Rodney Harrison was at 25 years of age.  Wilson ran a 4.4 forty at the NFL combine, had a 42" standing vertical and this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vL19q8yL54

    Rodney didn't get hurt because he was old, he broke his forearm, somebody rolled up on his knee; he was done playing because he was sick and tired of rehab.  Wilson hasn't had these injuries and has been durable his entire career, he will be good for another 3 years.  

    Rodney ran a 4.8 at the combine, you don't have to be athletic to be an All Pro safety, you have to have football intelligence which Wilson has plenty of, now he finally gets to play on a great team.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    I really see this as one of those veterans that BB signs to be part of a rotation.  I doubt he's going to be on the field nearly every snap through the whole season like McCourty will be.  He's probably going to be rotating with Gregory and Tavon Wilson.  I could be wrong, but that's how I see his role--and I think it's a good role for this team. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    On the "strong safety" thing--Belichick prefers both his safeties to be versatile and doesn't really classify them as strong and free.  Yes, one guy may focus a bit more near the LOS and the other be the deep guy in cover 1, but everyone needs to both cover and come up and defend the run. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to NoahJustin's comment:

     

    Your right, my bad! Is there any FA Safety out there now that you think we could afford now that you like?

     



         Bernard Pollard.

     

     

     



    You don't want Wilson because he's a "liability in coverage," but instead you want a guy who three teams already had and didn't want to commit to because he lets plays get behind him...?

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Again, a good strong safety doesn't "cover" other than the occasional tightend, they play back and keep the action in front of them, even if he "lost a step" he would still be supremely faster and more athletic than Rodney Harrison was at 25 years of age.  Wilson ran a 4.4 forty at the NFL combine, had a 42" standing vertical and this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vL19q8yL54

    RESPONSE: LOL!!!! I guess that explains why the Cardinals decided to phase him out of their defense late in the year...and pulled him out on passing downs. A good SS is a player who plays the run like a LB, and can cover TEs, and defend the middle of the field, in zone coverage. 

    Rodney didn't get hurt because he was old, he broke his forearm, Pollard rolled up on his knee; he was done playing because he was sick and tired of rehab.  Wilson hasn't had these injuries and has been durable his entire career, he will be good for another 3 years.

    RESPONSE: LOL!!!...stop it! The guy turns 34 in November.   

    Rodney ran a 4.8 at the combine, you don't have to be athletic to be an All Pro safety, you have to have football intelligence which Wilson has plenty of, now he finally gets to play on a great team.

    RESPONSE: So...you're saying that Wilson will be a better player for the Pats than Rodney Harrison was?? LOL!!!




     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    Just poured over some Wilson stats over at Yahoo.

    First, it's worth noting that stats for a S can be very misleading, and I had that in mind while looking over the stats. This is what I walked away with:

    -He's most effective near the line. I don't mean that as run-support only. His passes defensed numbers are fairly consistent, which points to a lot of work against TEs as he is not on the field for a whole lot of 3rd downs the past year+. Pats struggled mightily against TEs.

    -Last year, he absolutely started to tail off as the second half of the season drug along. The last 2 years point to a slight downward trend overall. Not familiar with any potential injury issues he's dealt with.

    -His best quarter seemed to the be the 4th. I determine this by his tackle and sack numbers showing up higher than other quarters. Again, stats can be misleading, having not watched a ton of AZ, I don't have a general feel of how they were in TOP, especially late. This could skew things.

    -Overall, his consistency and durabilty has been remarkably consistent;

         -In 12 seasons, he has played all 16 games 8 times, 15 twice, 14 once, and 9 once.

         -Over that time, his most productive seasons, and his least are not terribly far apart        considering he played last season at 33.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Again, a good strong safety doesn't "cover" other than the occasional tightend, they play back and keep the action in front of them, even if he "lost a step" he would still be supremely faster and more athletic than Rodney Harrison was at 25 years of age.  Wilson ran a 4.4 forty at the NFL combine, had a 42" standing vertical and this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vL19q8yL54

    RESPONSE: LOL!!!! I guess that explains why the Cardinals decided to phase him out of their defense late in the year...and pulled him out on passing downs. A good SS is a player who plays the run like a LB, and can cover TEs, and defend the middle of the field, in zone coverage. 

    Rodney didn't get hurt because he was old, he broke his forearm, Pollard rolled up on his knee; he was done playing because he was sick and tired of rehab.  Wilson hasn't had these injuries and has been durable his entire career, he will be good for another 3 years.

    RESPONSE: LOL!!!...stop it! The guy turns 34 in November.   

    Rodney ran a 4.8 at the combine, you don't have to be athletic to be an All Pro safety, you have to have football intelligence which Wilson has plenty of, now he finally gets to play on a great team.

    RESPONSE: So...you're saying that Wilson will be a better player for the Pats than Rodney Harrison was?? LOL!!!

     




     



    Saying "LOL" a lot doesn't make your opinion a fact.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    There's always been a difference between the two positions, yes they both should have the ability to cover but a strong safety (Lawyer Milloy, Rodney Harrison) is built like a linebacker and a free safety (Willie Clay, Eugene Wilson) is a large cornerback.  Even BB might say there is no difference but clearly there is.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    There's always been a difference between the two positions, yes they both should have the ability to cover but a strong safety (Lawyer Milloy, Rodney Harrison) is built like a linebacker and a free safety (Willie Clay, Adrian Wilson) is a large cornerback.  Even BB might say there is no difference but there clearly there is.



    Do you mean Eugene Wilson?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to dreighver's comment:

     

     

    Saying "LOL" a lot doesn't make your opinion a fact.

     



    What he said^

     

    Roman Phifer, Clay Matthews and others have played football until they were 40.  Adrian Wilson has played SS as well as Rodney or any other player that has come along but he was on cruddy teams, and yes I think Wilson will play safety just like Rodney played for us.  Don't state your opinions as fact, instead bring some actual facts to the conversation.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to dreighver's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    There's always been a difference between the two positions, yes they both should have the ability to cover but a strong safety (Lawyer Milloy, Rodney Harrison) is built like a linebacker and a free safety (Willie Clay, Adrian Wilson) is a large cornerback.  Even BB might say there is no difference but there clearly there is.

     



    Do you mean Eugene Wilson?

     



    Sorry I meant Eugene

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    You have to go deeper into the season to see he was wearing down in Ari. By the end of the year he was primarily an in the box defender only. Week 4 everyone is still fresh and looking good, they me what he looks like weeks 12-17.

    Now Pro is right with the Seau comparison and if they use him situationally and limit his reps so he can last a full season then he's going to have a great season and be a great player for us. I have no doubt BB will use him to maximize what he has left but he is no Rodney Harrison when Rodney joined the team. Rodney was 3 years younger joining the team and still putting up numbers at or above his career average, Wilson's number have started to dip the last couple years. So temper the expectations a little, he's a big name but he's closer to where Seau was in his career joining the Pats then Rodney.  

     




    So, what you're saying is, Wilson won't have a big impact and BB didn't look at his film or trust the scouts on Wilson.

     

    You're turning into a Bdreu type here, PatsEng, which isn't a good thing.



    Wow Rusty way to not even come close to what I said in the least. Reread the bold areas I pointed out then reread what you said. I know it's easy to make the tiny jump from me saying BB will use him right and he'll be a great player for the Pats situtionally to he won't make an impact and BB doesn't know what he's doing but try to read between the lines before commenting

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    On the "strong safety" thing--Belichick prefers both his safeties to be versatile and doesn't really classify them as strong and free.  Yes, one guy may focus a bit more near the LOS and the other be the deep guy in cover 1, but everyone needs to both cover and come up and defend the run. 




    Historically...this seems to be true.

    But think back to what "historically" BB liked to do in 2005. And how much that's changed now. With Talib and Dennard at CB, Arrington at slot, McCourty at FS...that's actually very good to cover the outside and over the top. The Pats got KILLED, time and time again by TEs, and over the short-to-intermediate middle ALL MOTHER FKING SEASON! It drove me kind of crazy...anyway, he seems to be a guy that can help with that.

    Teams throw a lot more on first and second down in today's NFL than even 5 years ago. There seem to be a lot more 3rd and longs...hence more WRs. Not many teams have Gronk/Hernandez-types at TE. More WRs being on the field, I could see Wilson not being there...it's not really a surprise to me at all. I don't want him to, nor do I think he'll be playing more than 10-15 yards back except for the occasional zone-drop. I DO think McCourty is rather exceptional, and can do a very good job covering a lot of the outfield when he doesn't have specific man duties to worry about.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    Just poured over some Wilson stats over at Yahoo.

    First, it's worth noting that stats for a S can be very misleading, and I had that in mind while looking over the stats. This is what I walked away with:

    -He's most effective near the line. I don't mean that as run-support only. His passes defensed numbers are fairly consistent, which points to a lot of work against TEs as he is not on the field for a whole lot of 3rd downs the past year+. Pats struggled mightily against TEs.

    -Last year, he absolutely started to tail off as the second half of the season drug along. The last 2 years point to a slight downward trend overall. Not familiar with any potential injury issues he's dealt with.

    -His best quarter seemed to the be the 4th. I determine this by his tackle and sack numbers showing up higher than other quarters. Again, stats can be misleading, having not watched a ton of AZ, I don't have a general feel of how they were in TOP, especially late. This could skew things.

    -Overall, his consistency and durabilty has been remarkably consistent;

         -In 12 seasons, he has played all 16 games 8 times, 15 twice, 14 once, and 9 once.

         -Over that time, his most productive seasons, and his least are not terribly far apart        considering he played last season at 33.



    This  +1000

    This is all I'm trying to say. Put him in th right position to be an in box defender and in box nickel cover and limit his reps so he doesn't wear down as the season progresses and he's going to be a great addition but put him out in the normal SS spot and having him as a 3 down starter playin outside that box and I think that's a mistake, esp as the season progresses. We need him for the postseason not to get to the postseason so the idea is for him to remain healthy and strong through the year not burn out an older player quickly in the season

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    But think back to what "historically" BB liked to do in 2005. And how much that's changed now. With Talib and Dennard at CB, Arrington at slot, McCourty at FS...that's actually very good to cover the outside and over the top. The Pats got KILLED, time and time again by TEs, and over the short-to-intermediate middle ALL MOTHER FKING SEASON! It drove me kind of crazy...anyway, he seems to be a guy that can help with that.

    Teams throw a lot more on first and second down in today's NFL than even 5 years ago. There seem to be a lot more 3rd and longs...hence more WRs. Not many teams have Gronk/Hernandez-types at TE. More WRs being on the field, I could see Wilson not being there...it's not really a surprise to me at all. I don't want him to, nor do I think he'll be playing more than 10-15 yards back except for the occasional zone-drop. I DO think McCourty is rather exceptional, and can do a very good job covering a lot of the outfield when he doesn't have specific man duties to worry about.

     



    Belichick some times played 3-4 safeties at a time in his old nickel schemes, Gregory will still play a lot if he makes the team and will be that third safety/swing corner.  Titles obviously don't mean much to BB, Wilson plays well close to the line but he can absolutely demolish a wide receiver 25 yards downfield... he's good wherever he plays, but it will be his coach who puts him in a position to succeed.

    Wilson played 80% of his team's snaps last season, I suspect BB will match or exceed those snaps...

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric1. Show KyleCleric1's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    Wilson can probably still help in that nickel safety role, on the goalline, and in the base against teams with strong running games.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    I keep forgetting about the other Wilson...Tavon. I like him in the mix, especially more on 3rd downs. Gregory is another player who can help well in the right spots.

    You can only assume health right now. People WILL get hurt, but you never know who. That being siad, I like the secondary as it stands today.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    Belichick on the safety role . . .  

     

    Given the turnover at the safety position last week, the roles and responsibilities for those that made the Patriots roster has been a topic in the spotlight this week. During a conference call with the media Tuesday, coach Bill Belichick noted the classification between strong and free safeties has dissipated over the past decade, pointing to the Patriots shifting to more of a hybrid approach since they had Eugene Wilson and Rodney Harrison together in the defensive backfield starting in 2003. 

    "Offenses have done a much better job of making the strong safety play free safety and making the free safety play strong safety, and they don't let defensive players get comfortable where they want to play," said Belichick. "They make them play where they don't want to play. That kind of made the defenses transition away from [strict designation of strong and free safety responsibilities]... 

    "The short answer is I think that in our system we have always taught our safeties both positions. If they’re on the strong side of the formation or on the weak side of the formation, to learn how to play of those because inevitably there are going to be times when the offenses are going to do that and force you to do that and then sometimes we, by game plan, adjust that from week-to-week on what specifically we want them to do. Sometimes we can control who is the strong safety and who is the weak safety but a lot of times we can’t so they really need to learn both responsibilities for when it gets to that point, which like I said, inevitably it does." 

    Belichick suggested that the safeties on the Patriots' roster entering the 2011 season are capable of assuming both roles, sticking with what's been taught to the team since Harrison and Wilson were together. 

    "I think that's the way it's been the last [eight] years or so," said Belichick. "From when it was Rodney and Eugene. Even though Rodney was more of a strong safety, and Eugene more of a free safety, both of those players could play both positions, to a degree. Ever since then, again, for the reasons I just talked about, you try to have players on the team with a degree of versatility because offenses force that. Is it perfect? I don't know about that. Do I think all of our safeties have a degree of flexibility to do that? Yeah, I do."   

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    I keep forgetting about the other Wilson...Tavon. I like him in the mix, especially more on 3rd downs. Gregory is another player who can help well in the right spots.

    You can only assume health right now. People WILL get hurt, but you never know who. That being siad, I like the secondary as it stands today.

     




    On paper, yes, but they need another veteran body at CB in camp.  Makes sense to draft one, too.

     

     




    You're right. I should've mentioned that. The roster isn't full yet, I know. But if everyone else came into the depth chart below what they currently have, I'd be happy.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: So... is Adrian Wilson really washed up?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    You have to go deeper into the season to see he was wearing down in Ari. By the end of the year he was primarily an in the box defender only. Week 4 everyone is still fresh and looking good, they me what he looks like weeks 12-17.

    Now Pro is right with the Seau comparison and if they use him situationally and limit his reps so he can last a full season then he's going to have a great season and be a great player for us. I have no doubt BB will use him to maximize what he has left but he is no Rodney Harrison when Rodney joined the team. Rodney was 3 years younger joining the team and still putting up numbers at or above his career average, Wilson's number have started to dip the last couple years. So temper the expectations a little, he's a big name but he's closer to where Seau was in his career joining the Pats then Rodney.  

     




    So, what you're saying is, Wilson won't have a big impact and BB didn't look at his film or trust the scouts on Wilson.

     

    You're turning into a Bdreu type here, PatsEng, which isn't a good thing.

     



    Wow Rusty why to not even come close to what I said in the least. Reread the bold areas I pointed out then reread what you said. I know it's easy to make the tiny jump from me saying BB will use him right and he'll be a great player for the Pats situtionally to he won't make any impact and BB doesn't know what he's doing but try to read between the lines before commenting

     

     



    I shouldn't have to "read between the lines" on a messageboard. Just state your opinion and back it.

     

    You have gone off the deep end this week.

     



    The read behind the lines was sarcasm. There is no between the lines. What I stated and what you said is the complete opposite. I said BB will use him properly and he'll be a great player. You said that I said, that he won't make an impact and BB doesn't know what he's doing. You don't see that it' the complete opposite?

     
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