So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially


    Chung - Good progress from year one but still indefinite
    Butler - Increasing looking like a bust, dropping below Arrington in depth
    Brace - Looks better than last year but that isn't saying much. Doesn't appear to be started material.
    Vollmer - homerun
    Tate - Still a big question mark. Hardly any catches on presence in the receiving game. 
    Tyrone Mckenzie - Bust/released. On PS.
    Rich Ohnberger - Bust/released. On PS.
    George Bussey - Bust/released. Out of NFL. 
    Jake Ingram - Started LS. Then again, noone drafts LS.... except us.
    Myron Pyror - Hit. Steady starter. Could still develop further.
    Julian Edelman - Homerun for 7th round. 

    So unless Chung, Tate and Pyror pan out, this could turn out to be another disappointing draft, leaving us with just Vollmer and Edelman from it. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    OK, how many gems need to be found in a draft to qualify it as good?  Vollmer, Pryor, and Edelman alone make a decent draft.  Chung is a starter and is acquitting himself well.  Placing a question mark on him makes me think you'd get your clock cleaned in Vegas.  I like his odds of success.  So that makes 4 quality players.  Brace is looking pretty decent so far.  Tate is a question mark, but one that leans towards a positive result.  It's way to early to issue an obituary on Butler.  

    The way I see it, we got 4 good players for sure. Brace's arrival will make that 5.  If Butler redeems himself that will make 6.  We haven't discussed rookie FA's either.  So really, how many of the picks need to be good players to make it a good draft?  What is your percentage and what is the justification behind it?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    How is Tate a question mark when he has clearly improved the return game, with one return for a touchdown already?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    The standard window is at least 3 years to evaluate a draft. Give it a rest.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]Chung - Good progress from year one but still indefinite (...)
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    Yeah!, Chung really is a big question mark right now. I mean, even BB was so unsure about him that decided to play him on every defensive snap, giving him a chance to showcase himself. In fact, the only reason he's not been downgraded to the playing squad (yet) is that he got lucky a couple of games and  is the team leader in tackles despite his clear limitations.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    So then shouldn't that be the exact same logic used before people bash Darius Butle? Isn't it ONLY TWO GAMES?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]

    Chung - Good progress from year one but still indefinite
    ** He's certainly looking like a keeper for exactly the reason you mentioned, he is showing continual progress and thats what you want. He's also tied as the 4th leading tackler in the NFL after 2 games into his 1st season as a starter as a 2nd round pick. **

    Butler - Increasing looking like a bust, dropping below Arrington in depth
    ** First you have to qualify "Bust". I am sure your idea or difinition of what "Bust" is differs vastly from my own and others. That being said, his lack of progress is REALLY disappointing. Have to wait and see, but agree its troubling to me. No way I classify him as a "Bust" and a rumour about Arrington does not mean Butler's dropping below Arrington on the depth chart. Arrington might be excelling, might be a good game(vs. Bills) to get Arrington some live reps since we are thin at CB from injuries, also Butler's confidence might be a bit shaken. We don't know any of that and can't jump to difinitive conclusions yet. **

    Brace - Looks better than last year but that isn't saying much. Doesn't appear to be started material.
    ** Well I disagree with you here. I think you are off base and stuck on the perception instead of the reality. Brace quickly assumed the starting role at DE over Mike Wright and has played well both when he came in as a sub in the 1st game and also as a starter against the Jets last week. 2nd round pick, starting wk 2 in his sophmore year, yeah I say thats a pick that's working out for you. **

    Vollmer - homerun
    ** Would not say he's a home run or unbelievable pick but he is absolutely solid. How is Viollmer starting in year 2 as a 2nd round pick so much superior than Brace starting in year 2 as a 2nd round pick? Because he played better in his 1st year as a rookie? Sorry I just don't see one as a homerun and the other as not starter material. **

    Tate - Still a big question mark. Hardly any catches on presence in the receiving game.
    ** I don't think he's that big of a question mark. He's basically a rookie and coming off a 2nd knee surgery. He's already super productive in the kicking game. He has caught the pases targeted for him and made some excellent YAC. He's the starting 3rd WR as a quasi rookie. Blame Brady for not targeting Tate. Tates been open on some of the plays Brady has attempted to force(again) to Randy Moss. He's looking like a good pick to me. **

    Tyrone Mckenzie - Bust/released. On PS.
    ** Again, a quasi rookie coming off a torn ACL knee surgery. He was a 3rd rounder beat out by two players drafted higher. A seasoned veteren of the patriots defensive system(guyton), and a more versatile LB(Fletcher that could play more spots in an emergency which is needed with the lack of depth at OLB. Way to early to determine if he ends up being a "Bust" or not. **

    Rich Ohnberger - Bust/released. On PS.
    ** Doubt he's been as good as they hoped but hard to say. Think of how long Connolloy hung around on PS etc and now he's starting, even if it is because Mankins is a hold out. I also think Rich's options got limited because he can not project to Tackle and the guys they brought in can play both Tackle and guard since they are thin at Tackle options after kaczur injury. Late round linemen are a dime a dozen. Late round players in general. Your starters predominantly come from your early rounders. **

    George Bussey - Bust/released. Out of NFL. 
    ** Yep did not work out. Really want to call a 5th rounder a "Bust"? Really? Especially for a team who has drafted so many players the past couple of years? He got himself injured, fell behind and apparently never caught back up. It happens. **

    Jake Ingram - Started LS. Then again, noone drafts LS.... except us.
    ** What's your point? The draft is a shot in the dark in later rounds. We hit on a 1st year starter and he's been perfect so far. I bet there are a number of players around his draft range not even in the league and we got a starter. **

    Myron Pyror - Hit. Steady starter. Could still develop further.
    ** I think he's mostly what he is, an thats just fine for his role. **

    Julian Edelman - Homerun for 7th round. 
    ** Yep, but i don't quilify any of the picks based on round except maybe high 1sts and thats only because of the past rediculous money paid. **

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially : I don't know man. Maybe I'd rather have 1-2 pro bowl caliber players than keep trading down to find value and then keep releasing them.  I think 2 2nd round busts (as Brace and Butler are potentially looking) would be highly disappointing, especially considering we traded down from the 1st round for those picks. 
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    Dude, how is Brace looking like a potential bust this year?  Despite missing the preseason, he has seen increased playing time and was pretty well reviewed for the time he did play.  He's actually been a pleasant surprise.  

    BTW, how many teams draft 1-2 pro bowl players each year?  They don't.  Furthermore, how many teams know they drafted a pro bowl player 2 weeks into the 2nd season after the draft?  If I looked into my special optimistic edition of my crystal ball I can easily see Chung or Vollmer becoming pro bowlers though....even if not this year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    Problem is this is one of their better drafts. They needed to hit on Merriweather, Maroney, and Mayo.

    Before anyone suggests that Merriweather is a hit because of a pro bowl, consider that Paulimalu was injured, same with Sanders, dito for Reed and Harrison retired. 

    No explanation needed for Maroney.

    Mayo is the biggest shocker to me. First of all he was a top ten pick. The fact that he did nothing last year can be blamed on the injury, this year however what is the excuse? He's the last one moving off the snap and when he does decide where to go, it's the wrong way. He can't cover and he should be able to. He doesn't blast guards and rap up the back after. He is an horrendous pass rusher, just terrible. He looks lost. Totally. Is he explosive? Yeah, but he's not making the plays. Don't tell me he has tackles, how many of them have been at or behind the line of scrimmage? Not sure I've ever seen him make a stop on a third and one or fourth and one.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    lotta troll posts these days
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots1a2. Show patriots1a2's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]Problem is this is one of their better drafts. They needed to hit on Merriweather, Maroney, and Mayo. Before anyone suggests that Merriweather is a hit because of a pro bowl, consider that Paulimalu was injured, same with Sanders, dito for Reed and Harrison retired.  No explanation needed for Maroney. Mayo is the biggest shocker to me. First of all he was a top ten pick. The fact that he did nothing last year can be blamed on the injury, this year however what is the excuse? He's the last one moving off the snap and when he does decide where to go, it's the wrong way. He can't cover and he should be able to. He doesn't blast guards and rap up the back after. He is an horrendous pass rusher, just terrible. He looks lost. Totally. Is he explosive? Yeah, but he's not making the plays. Don't tell me he has tackles, how many of them have been at or behind the line of scrimmage? Not sure I've ever seen him make a stop on a third and one or fourth and one.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Why do you bring up PRO BOWL so much?? Its such a meaningless thing. Its a joke if you put that on your resume. 50% of the players wouldnt be on the pro bowl team if it wasnt for the name on there jersey. All you do is bash the 09 draft...why? The patriots will end up 11-5 and then they have the 2010 draft to gel(2 first,2 second,third,and 2 fourths) with the 09 class. Im pretty sure you will see a few new faces on this team durring the offseason b/c with the few peices that we need and the 2010 draft...THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS WILL BE IN PRIME TIME POSITION!!! Ill say it again...patriots will be 11-5 with the afc east champs once again.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    You are a complete fool. Last years draft was the best by far in the BB era and its only been one year. We are looking at how many potential starters from the 2009 Draft? Lets see...

    Chung, the kid is a missile, leads the team in tackles and has played lights out for a second year player. Starter? Absolutely. Star in the making.

    Vollmer, Franchise LT in the making, great pick. Starter? Absolutely. Also a star in the making.

    Tate, a force on kick returns, looks good when targeted, great YAC. Starter? After Moss leaves/retires, I see Tate being the number one guy barring any trades and hopefully we will resign him when the time comes.

    Brace, a work in progress, has looked a lot better then he did rookie year, which means he has progressed. Not a bust, not yet. I think given another year, Brace will either be a starter or a solid depth guy on this D-line.

    Butler, you said it yourself, its only been two games. He has struggled but you have to let him progress. A question mark but its not fair to judge him off of one bad performance.

    Edelman, for a 7th round pick he is a diamond in the rough. Great pick, gives the pats insurance incase Welker leaves. Has made a tough transition from QB to WR and is still developing. He will be a starter on this team.

    Pyror, has looked ok, will be a depth guy on the line and a solid one at that.


    Atleast 4 starters in a single draft, not many teams can brag about that only one year removed from a draft. If you think this draft was no good, you are completly out of your mind.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    I read the first post and that's it.... 2 weeks and this "Expert" decided this was a bad draft, ahahahaha.  Bless your soul child. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mojobag101. Show mojobag101's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    Wow hold on Mel Kiper Jr jr........Jamarcus Russell....BUST.None of the people mentioned are even close to that realm.I suppose Volmer is in the HOF based on your exaggerated value system.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially : I don't know man. Maybe I'd rather have 1-2 pro bowl caliber players than keep trading down to find value and then keep releasing them.  I think 2 2nd round busts (as Brace and Butler are potentially looking) would be highly disappointing, especially considering we traded down from the 1st round for those picks. 
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]
    The standard you have for drafting is both unreasonable and impossible.  2 Pro Bowlers per draft is insane.  There are 16 teams in the AFC, if every team got 2 pro bowlers from a draft that's 32 people...this year...and next year...and next.  In 5 years that 160 guys to put on a 53 man roster. 

    Average would be 3 to 4 Pro bowl players per team, which is to say you'd find a Pro bowler every 3 or 4 years.  The Patriots had 5 guys selected last year, above average.

    Your assessment of 2nd year players is no better.  I think Low FB IQ pointed out those flaws. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially : Why do you bring up PRO BOWL so much?? Its such a meaningless thing. Its a joke if you put that on your resume. 50% of the players wouldnt be on the pro bowl team if it wasnt for the name on there jersey. All you do is bash the 09 draft...why? The patriots will end up 11-5 and then they have the 2010 draft to gel(2 first,2 second,third,and 2 fourths) with the 09 class. Im pretty sure you will see a few new faces on this team durring the offseason b/c with the few peices that we need and the 2010 draft...THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS WILL BE IN PRIME TIME POSITION!!! Ill say it again...patriots will be 11-5 with the afc east champs once again.
    Posted by patriots1a2[/QUOTE]

    Patriots1a2, I'm assuming you were into the Catain Morgan early when you wrote this, so I'll give you a pass....But. First of all my arguement was that the pro bowl is meaningless, didn't you read it? You helped prove my point. Second I made no mention at all to the 09 draft in my post, none. In fact what I was saying is that the previous drafts are to blame, not that one.

    Now add some ice, some Morgan, a little diet coke and....Enjoy:)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    I see this from two points.  First one is, who cares?  There is NO superbowl of the draft, and the point, year after year, is to build a team.  IF the team gets built, however that happens, why worry?  I'm not sure (at this point) the team isn't getting it done.  And for sure if bodden was paired with McCourty we would see better results.  Waste of a draft pick?  Its more like a lottery anyway.  Buy alot of low cost tickets and hope you hit.  On the other hand, we seem to miss where we can't afford to.  I'm just not sure what we are looking at here with this team.  I said in another post, I thought the Jets would get one from us.  Not because of what I thought of the Jets at that point, but because they ALWAYS seem to steal one when we play like crap, and the Meadowlands game is usually the one.  Kind of the same when we went to Miami early in the year, usually we would lose that, and win the home game.  Not sure that isn't what happened.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    In Response to Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially:
    [QUOTE]lotta troll posts these days
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    Listen they'll win this week, so you'll gooble up the koolaid. What are you going to do when they play the tough teams and the game is close and...it's third and 7, so and so drops back to pass.... Complete!! First down! All the way down to the fifteen. So and so hands off to so and so, up the middle for five. Second down. So and so hands off to so and so, off tackle for 4. Third and one. So and so hands off to so and so, up the middle for two...FIRST DOWN!! First and goal at the 4!! Thirty seconds left. Manning, Favre, Henne, god who really cares who it is drops back, fakes the hand off, throws to the wide open reciever, being covered by any one of our 15 different VALUE defensive backs for the game winning TOUCHDOWN!! Game over. Camera pans to a very angry/sulking, yet very run way, hair blowing in the wind...Tom Brady, walking off the field. The replay shows that the QB who had all day to throw on the last play had a choice to throw it to; a wide open back in the flat, a tight end that was being covered by a completely lost middle linebacker or just run up the middle on a gased nose tackle that hasn't taken a break in 5 years. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    Brace is better versus the run and started v the Jests. He may start again this week, but Wright  might start versus a better passing team.

    Let's wait to see how the defense sets up before we nominate Brace as a bust or great. Wilkork didn't get his frist chance to consistently start until his 2nd year. So even though he played more than Brace in his first year it wasn't unitl his 2nd year he produced and stepped up to manage the line.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: So maybe out 2009 wasn't as good as everyone thought initially

    I for one think this was a good draft! Chung is a player. Volhmer is too. We will see the Brace. He will play this year and should improve. Pryor I like. Edelman is a good player. Tate will be very good once he builds some chemistry with Brady.
    That's five players from that draft. You'll have another five from this past years draft and I'm almost certain five new guys from next years draft. That my friends is what's called rebuilding your team.
     
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