So What's The Difference.....?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    So What's The Difference.....?

    I've been watching some old Patriots games back from 06 when the defense was considered to be solid.

    I'm not seeing anything drastically different from what I'm seeing now, but if I had to pick what seems to be the biggest issue, I'd say the coverage.

    The pass-rush was never "spectacular" back in those days, and after re-watching the games, my opinion hasn't changed. We pushed the pocket well enough, and we'd occasionally get a sack off of a blitz or an OLB, just like last year. But the coverage - the coverage was always there.

    I have seen far too often, a player simply being open, but back in '06, it always seemed like there was good coverage, and more importantly, there was continuity. 

    My general assumption from watching these games:

    A pass-rush is important, especially in certain situations, but overall, coverage is the more important of the two, and having continuity in the secondary is vital. We'll never set records in terms of sacks, but we'll get some here and there, from TB-C and off of blitzes. More importantly though, we must have continuity and communication in the secondary in order to have a good pass-defense.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    considering the Pats havent' won anything since 2005 maybe you should check out that years game films
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    Dude seymore, ty warren, vrable, and teddy made the secondary look better than it was and it  might've been we had samules, harrison back then. This is an entirely differenet defense.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    I realize that this is an entirely different defense, or I wouldn't have been attempting to figure out what the issue is.

    I'm trying to figure out what our current issue is, and as far as I can tell, we don't have the continuity and communication in our secondary that is needed for us to be a team that is successful when defending against the pass.

    Hopefully as Belichick works with this group more, they'll gain that continuity. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    In Response to So What's The Difference.....?:
    [QUOTE]...The pass-rush was never "spectacular" back in those days, and after re-watching the games, my opinion hasn't changed. We pushed the pocket well enough, and we'd occasionally get a sack off of a blitz or an OLB, just like last year. But the coverage - the coverage was always there. ..
    Posted by vertigho[/QUOTE]


    that's just the point! push the pocket! you don't need to score sacks everytime for the pass rush to be effective.

    1) you want the opposing qb to throw the ball a bit sooner, even if just half a second sooner. how quickly did the opposing qb have tog et rid of teh ball? how does that compare now? it's been a while, but i am guessing that there were many situations when the qb would have been sacked if he held on to the ball for any longer.  also one or two sacks will be enough to change the play of most qbs

    2) every now and then the defenses is able to plug plug all holes. more often though, even for the best of them, there are some holes that just don;t get plugged, particularly when you're defending against a good offense. the key is for the defense to take away the holes where the offense wants them to be. normally that is easier to achieve when the dl is able to at least push the pocket.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    Alot of those guys began to decline Seymour was hurt for a portion that year and had to have a huge brace put on his elbow. Wilfork was just coming along as a premiere player, Rodney was in and out, and the inside backers were garbage as Vrabel was a sub par backer and Bruschi was declining big time. Thing is though with that D as they were declining and the secondary had guys like Hawkins and Sanders starting (Wow that just made me a believer lol) they had huge experience as they were all in 3 superbowls together. Thats something you cant take away.

    Brady will have always have an edge because of those victories and the road he has traveled with those 3 teams and even the 18-1 team. This D will have to get that experience and that confidence. Rodney knew to cover guys like Witten and then the next week handle a guy like Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne who would both line up in the slot. A guy like Chung now will have to go with that and learn.

    All in all not much is different outside of experience. We gave those old guys alot of crap for being old but their experience was the best. Thats the only difference skill wise its there and probably the best corners (plural) Bill has had starting and depth wise. LBs eh Mayo has got to play better. Meriweather and Chung can be really special and they will get better with age. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    pass rush and secondary feed off each other that are not two separate entities, consistent pressure gives the secondary just enough breathing room, I think its unreasonable to ask the secondary to cover everybody all the time esp. an elite offense. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    In Response to So What's The Difference.....?:
    [QUOTE]I've been watching some old Patriots games back from 06 when the defense was considered to be solid. I'm not seeing anything drastically different from what I'm seeing now, but if I had to pick what seems to be the biggest issue, I'd say the coverage. The pass-rush was never "spectacular" back in those days, and after re-watching the games, my opinion hasn't changed. We pushed the pocket well enough, and we'd occasionally get a sack off of a blitz or an OLB, just like last year. But the coverage - the coverage was always there. I have seen far too often, a player simply being open, but back in '06, it always seemed like there was good coverage, and more importantly, there was continuity.  My general assumption from watching these games: A pass-rush is important, especially in certain situations, but overall, coverage is the more important of the two, and having continuity in the secondary is vital. We'll never set records in terms of sacks, but we'll get some here and there, from TB-C and off of blitzes. More importantly though, we must  have continuity and communication in the secondary in order to have a good pass-defense.
    Posted by vertigho[/QUOTE]

    Yes!!!  Watch the replays of our playoff victories earlier this decade - were we an elite pass rushing team?  No.  But we had excellent coverage all over the field.  

    People act like there is a problem if we don't get to the QB immediately on every play.  We have been pushing the pocket and getting to the QB just fine in recent seasons but there is usually someone open for the QB to get the ball to, or Wilhite is covering someone.  

    A good QB will get the ball out quickly, the only way to defend that is good coverage.

    The poster who complained about our 06 defense is retarded.  We were #2 or 3 in points allowed that season.

    Also - where are you getting replays of the 06 season?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Coolguy55220. Show Coolguy55220's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    You are right in that the problem is coverage, but the solution is not simply getting good corners anymore. Back in those days it was, but now the rules favor WR's because you cant be physical so you need pass rusher to make the QB's rush their throws or make bad throws into a good coverage.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    In Response to Re: So What's The Difference.....?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to So What's The Difference.....? : that's just the point! push the pocket! you don't need to score sacks everytime for the pass rush to be effective. 1) you want the opposing qb to throw the ball a bit sooner, even if just half a second sooner. how quickly did the opposing qb have tog et rid of teh ball? how does that compare now? it's been a while, but i am guessing that there were many situations when the qb would have been sacked if he held on to the ball for any longer.  also one or two sacks will be enough to change the play of most qbs 2) every now and then the defenses is able to plug plug all holes. more often though, even for the best of them, there are some holes that just don;t get plugged, particularly when you're defending against a good offense. the key is for the defense to take away the holes where the offense wants them to be. normally that is easier to achieve when the dl is able to at least push the pocket.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    solid anaolgy, great points
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: So What's The Difference.....?

    To all of those wondering where I'm finding these replays of the games:

    Go to NFL.com

    Move you mouse over the video tab at the top, and then down to the highlights tab underneath that and click it.

    Click on the bar slightly to the right and select the Pats

    Then select the desired year and pick which week and you'll get highlights. The basic game highlights should be at the bottom of the page.
     
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