sold on Solder and Vareen!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from canpatfan. Show canpatfan's posts

    sold on Solder and Vareen!

    Does anyone think what I do: that Nate Solder and Shane Vareen are sleepers in this draft?  BB must have had a reason for not drafting Ingram???  BJGE and Woody make a combo - if Faulk is back that's great - but he will be relegated to fourth on the depth chart.

    Vareen is good when he gets outside -a north and south runner. Lacks the power of Ingram but his finesse will be better than BJGE.  Vareen is a closer back - good at finding seams and going the distance.  A very good pick.

    Solder has the size - if all he needs is more strengthening - so what?  NFL Net's Mike Mayock called him the most impressive DE he's seen in a few years.

    Mark my word - these two picks at least - will turn out to be very smart.  

    BB must have a free agent pass rusher in mind?


     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    In Response to sold on Solder and Vareen!:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone think what I do: that Nate Solder and Shane Vareen are sleepers in this draft?  BB must have had a reason for not drafting Ingram???  BJGE and Woody make a combo - if Faulk is back that's great - but he will be relegated to fourth on the depth chart. Vareen is good when he gets outside -a north and south runner. Lacks the power of Ingram but his finesse will be better than BJGE.  Vareen is a closer back - good at finding seams and going the distance.  A very good pick. Solder has the size - if all he needs is more strengthening - so what?  NFL Net's Mike Mayock called him the most impressive DE he's seen in a few years. Mark my word - these two picks at least - will turn out to be very smart.   BB must have a free agent pass rusher in mind?  
    Posted by canpatfan[/QUOTE]
    As shocked as I was that we didn't get an impact front seven player, when we sorely needed one...I would have to agree with you. Tackle positions tend to be more of a safer type of pick and a position that is vital and expensive to fill; so I see the "value" there. As for the runner; I liked what I saw from his highlights and don't think the guy has to a third down type of back...he's strong and big enough. Look at guys like Curtis Martin, Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Warick Dunn - on and on - they all were the 5-10 200lb. range.

    It's just that they could of and probably still will sign Light and they could of choosen just one runner...and added someone/anyone for the front seven. Don't get it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    In Response to sold on Solder and Vareen!:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone think what I do: that Nate Solder and Shane Vareen are sleepers in this draft?  BB must have had a reason for not drafting Ingram???  BJGE and Woody make a combo - if Faulk is back that's great - but he will be relegated to fourth on the depth chart. Vareen is good when he gets outside -a north and south runner. Lacks the power of Ingram but his finesse will be better than BJGE.  Vareen is a closer back - good at finding seams and going the distance.  A very good pick. Solder has the size - if all he needs is more strengthening - so what?  NFL Net's Mike Mayock called him the most impressive DE he's seen in a few years. Mark my word - these two picks at least - will turn out to be very smart.   BB must have a free agent pass rusher in mind?  
    Posted by canpatfan[/QUOTE]

    Yes... You will love Solder and love Vereen. Both will be very very good. Solder could be a real big time OLT that you will remember 15-20 years from now. Vereen could be a really solid player who might not be an All Pro but should be one of the top 5 RBs in the conference.

    If you are thinking about OLB take a look at Carter (late round pick). Doesnt sound like it but take a look. He could be a player.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    I don't think either one of them were sleepers. Both were rather highly regarded coming out. I wasn't surprised either was picked ... only that BB passed on taking #28 to grab a defender for the front seven or a WR. 

    I guess that means he is high on Cunningham and Price. Time will tell.

    But I love Cannon, Solder, Vereen ... even Ras-I is growing on me. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking-11. Show Harleyroadking-11's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    even Ras-I is growing on me.

    I recommend cortisone with aloe.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    Not sold on Vareen.  Fumblitis.  Small hands don't help.

    Not sold on Ras-I.  Pretty short arms to go with good height.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    In Response to Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!:
    [QUOTE]even Ras-I is growing on me. I recommend cortisone with aloe .
    Posted by Harleyroadking-11[/QUOTE]

    I just use the side of a hairbrush. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    Don't think you can call the #17 pick a sleeper but I do like Solder

    Vereen I'm less fond of. Watching more film on him I realize this guy tends to get tackled if you breath on him wrong. He's very easily taken down with not much force. His balance is awful. He's a good all around back that is good in everything but he's not great in any one thing and he isn't a homerun threat. Unless he has a clean lane I don't see a lot of film (even in his highlight films) where he broke through tackles to break away. Most of the time his momentum would carry him forward for extra yards but he constantly was being arm tackled sometimes even single arm tackled which for a back his size shouldn't be happening. I have no doubt this guy will be a solid back who will get positive yards but I don't see Rice in him look some have said. He's an explosive 1 cut runner who hits his top gear at the line quickly. His greatest attributes are his leadership (huge imo), ability to catch the ball out of the back field, running outside the T's, and blocking. Unless our line can make some good size holes I don't see him as be an effective in the T runner much like how BJGE isn't an effective outside the T runner. All in all he's a great complimentary back to what we have just not a #1 RB or someone the other team needs to necessarily game plan for. A Maroney type who doesn't need the lead blocker so hopefully won't dance behind the line to make a decision.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenacioust. Show tenacioust's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    Rb's that get tackled by being "breathed on" dont get over 5 ypc in the SEC. That is a silly statement. I see a north-south runner with good lateral movement who always falls forward. The guy aint a weakling (31 reps on the bench press).
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    I read in a few places prior to the draft how Vereen compared favorably to guys like Kevin Faulk and Leon Washington -- versatile, quick.  When drafted I didn't think they needed another guy with that skillset with Faulk potentially ready to come back and with Woodhead on the roster.  I was hoping for a guy to split carries with BJGE, and then they drafted Ridley. 

    The more I think about it, they needed to address the backfield with Taylor, Morris and (gulp) Faulk potentially not returning.  Not the biggest need, but a need.  And at least now they can use FA, when allowed, to fill in with some other guys, hopefully at OLB.  

    I have the highest confidence in Scarnecchia, and if Solder was his guy then it's likely that the Pats drafted a 10-yr OT.  The Pats rarely miss on picks like Solder. 
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pochen23. Show pochen23's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    I think I would pick DeMarco Murray of OU over Vereen. Slightly injury prone but is bigger and faster and has the same pass catching ability. But I am happy with Vereen, he is a solid back that has the chance to turn into Ray Rice type.

    I think with this pick they are obviously planning to replace Faulk and perhaps use Vereen as a feature back cuz BGE isn't a very good feature back with the lack of pass catching ability in this offense. If they can only line up 1 RB in a formation with multiple TEs, I think Vereen will be the perfect guy. Like the pick, reach or not it doesn't matter.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    Here's some stats

    2010 - 231 carries 34 runs of 10+ yards 3 carries of 20+ yards
    2009 - 183 carries 27 runs of 10+ yards 8 carries of 20+ yards


    In college that's pretty poor for 20+ yard carry totals. What that means is that he has no trouble getting into the secondary (as I said great explosion getting into top gear quickly) but he can't get out of the secondary (either he's tripping or being tackled). He is a solid back that will get you between 4-6 yards every carry but he's not going to be breaking out long runs (ie Rice like). Watch his highlight videos again. Unless it's a weak 1 arm tackle how many times do you notice him getting hit and staying on his feet? Also look at the types of tackles they are usually not wrap up tackles but shoulder hits. Other teams know that all you have to do is knock him a little and he'll lose his footing. Did you also notice there aren't many highlights of him breaking multiple tackles like most backs have in their highlight video, that's because he has trouble breaking tackles. Again look at his video's. His line tends to make holes that he runs through for 5-10 yard gains on most of them but once he gets into the second level he gets taken down. He doesn't run into piles and relies on his vision to find the holes, much like Maroney coming out of college. The only difference is Vereen is use to not needing a blocker so he can look at the entire line while Maroney always had the blocker and couldn't make a decision when given multiple choices. Basically Vereen is Maroney that can make better choices so maybe Vereen can become that back that we hoped Maroney was suppose to become not what he was. 
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    In Response to Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!:
    [QUOTE]He's not a big back, dude. This isn't Jonathan Stewart or a Corey Dillon type power back.  I don't understand why you think he has to be a power back and since he isn't, this is a subpar choice in this offense. He's a scatback, who can take some carries and be used in a multitude of ways.  I can only imagine the comments on Woodhead and why he stinks and will never make it. And now look at him in this offense. Ridley (5'11 225) is more of what you are looking for in that way, but I don't see why Vereen's skill set needs to be something else for you to be happy with the pick. It's like your using the last resort complaint on a player hoping it supersedes the rest of the nice pluses the player brings.  It's like saying Deion Branch isn't a deep threat. Ok. And? Faulk is coming off a blown out ACL at age 33.  It doesn't look good for an aging RB with tons of miles on him to be back at full speed one year later. How many scatbacks "break tackles"? What is with this obsession with breaking tackles?  No one expects a scooting RB to be a dominant tackle breaker. I don't get your complaint. Maroney didn't hit holes remotely as fast as Vereen does. Maroney had the entire physical make up that you'd want, but didn't have the drive, the passion, the vision or ability to pace himself correctly, getting a feel for the speed in which the hole would open. Another silly statement.  You're better than that. Also, Vereen is clearly superior in pass catching over Maroney and his very high character and maturity aspects that make his 2nd value very good. Further, he blocks well which is something Maroney could not do or was not willing to learn. I just said he played in a passing offense, so you posting numbers that don't rival Adrian Peterson's numbers don't really hold a lot of weight.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    What you don't get is that I'M NOT COMPLAINING I'm just tempering the image that you guys are tossing out there what this guy is. He's exactly what I described a solid all around back that will get you a 4 yard average and catch a good amount of balls out of the backfield just don't expect him to be Rice. You guys are bringing him up to the level that he was the best back in the draft and he's not, he's a good complimentary back to what we already have. Which is perfect for what the Pats do.

    I know he's not a power back but he can't break tackles which someone at 5'10" 209lbs should be able to do every so often. When I say he has poor balance it's because when he gets hit he loses his feet which he does. He has a hard time staying upright if he gets hit as opposed to BJGE who stays upright and can run through them. Vereen has many other qualities which makes up for it but he's not going to be a runner like Woodhead or BJGE who take head on hits and keep moving.

    Jeez you hear anything negative and you immediately assume I'm attacking the pick or the player when that's not true in the slightest bit. How about taking a step back looking over him again and realize all I'm doing is pointing out some of his weaknesses as well as saying his strengthens so that people don't get over excited and dump on the guy when he can't break 10+ yard runs when everyone is declaring to be the next Rice.

    The reason that BB likes him is that he's a multi faceted runner and a leader who's adept in all 3 aspects of RB and will get you solid yards nothing more. Basically as I said he's what BB saw in Maroney with the big exception that Vereen ran in a system that is closer to the Pats 1 back system and has more experience catching the ball then Maroney's which is a good thing. BB has a tendency to continue to pick similar player styles until one works out. In this case it's Vereen to Maroney in running style except BB realized that Maroney is a good back only when he has a blocker in front of him while Vereen is a good runner even without that blocker which is the system the Pats run.

    Maybe you don't realize this but every pick BB makes has flaws and could bust or become stars but blindly declaring that a pick is perfect is just plain silly without realizing why maybe Vereen wasn't taken before say Williams or Ingram or everyone in the 1st round.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    In Response to Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!:
    [QUOTE]Stunning to read the negativity with Vereen.   I think we heard similar comments last year with McCourty.   I cannot believe I watched the same RB at Cal with the comments here.  The guy has GREAT balance, using his center of gravity well.  The ease in which he navigates through small holes, hides his body and how he naturally catches screens and balls out of the backfield will be a nightmare for LBS or DBs.  He also lines up as slot WR at times a la Woodhead.  Great addition.  He's hard to tackle, although not a power back.  He's a Ray Rice type who returns kicks. The one player I did not see any of in college is Dowling. The more I read about him and the more stuff I see on film, the more I like the skill set in the mix.  He'll be pushing Bodden on the right in the next couple of seasons.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Yep your right King no one's calling him Ray Rice.....

    You are being being defensive
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    I think Vereen is better than Ingram. Ingram was the third or fourth best back I saw this draft. I watched him ... Alabama blew holes wide enough for three Mark Ingrams to run through. 

    I liked Kendall Hunter too. 

    He isn't much different than Ray Rice ... I don't see how someone could say he can't be like Ray Rice. 

    Ray was a second round back from an intermediate school with very similar triangle numbers and a knack for getting his hands on the ball. 

    I don't see that Vereen is much different as a prospect than Rice was. 

    I also liked Rice as a potential Patriot, but thought NE was 'set' with RBs at the time. 
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: sold on Solder and Vareen!

    With a good camp...Vereen can start..show his ability to cut and get extra yardage..BGE and Ridley will provide power and the hard yards,,,Woodhead can be an occassional 3rd down back...

    As a whole this is the best RB group that the team has had in a very long time..
     
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