Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

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    Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    I know they're young, but anyone else think Solder and Cannon had an underwhelming performance? I was planning on just enjoying the game last night, but couldn't help but notice that both players were not just 1/2 a step behind, but getting beaten on a regular basis w/o much fight.

    The secondary and OL continue to be the biggest question marks for this team.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    Agreed. This is why how the O Line handled the Eagles pass rush was one thing I was watching. As stated on another thread; having a healthy Vollmer and Mankins and Waters' return would improve the O Line. I think only Solder and Connolly were starters last year (Koppen was injured). There really wasn't much there in the run game, but it should be better if these guys return. Another observation is that Brady gets the ball out noticably quicker than Mallet or Hoyer and has a better pocket prescence (can sense when opposing D is closing in on him).  I see Mankins and Waters as great run blockers who would improve the run game.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    Agreed. This is why how the O Line handled the Eagles pass rush was one thing I was watching. As stated on another thread; having a healthy Vollmer and Mankins and Waters' return would improve the O Line. I think only Solder and Connolly were starters last year (Koppen was injured). There really wasn't much there in the run game, but it should be better if these guys return. Another observation is that Brady gets the ball out noticably quicker than Mallet or Hoyer and has a better pocket prescence (can sense when opposing D is closing in on him).  I see Mankins and Waters as great run blockers who would improve the run game.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz


    I was hoping for more progress with Solder and Cannon (whether it's fair or not).  Solder needs to work on footwork, and maybe gain a little bit of weight in legs to lower his gravity. He got bowled over more than a couple of times w/ bull rushes - kind of embarrassing for him.  Cannon just seemed slow, and could not handle a move to the outside
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    If the Pats had decent OL available talent, Cannon would not make the 53 player roster and Solder would be coming off the bench for another year.  The fact that we need to rely Cannon and Solder, even with Mankins back, is NOT a good sign.  Hopefully we get through this season without key OL injuries and sign some roster castoffs that can hold this line together to give Brady some time and open up holes for Ridley and Vreen.
      
    I thought we should have selected an OL with the 2nd round Wilson pick...but none of the late first round and second round OL draft picks are burning it up yet.  Koonz, Ben whatshisname from Georgia, Reiff and others are underwhelming so far and maybe BB didn't see starting talent.  Maybe next draft we focus on a couple OL picks. 
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    If the Pats had decent OL available talent, Cannon would not make the 53 player roster and Solder would be coming off the bench for another year.  The fact that we need to rely Cannon and Solder, even with Mankins back, is NOT a good sign.  Hopefully we get through this season without key OL injuries and sign some roster castoffs that can hold this line together to give Brady some time and open up holes for Ridley and Vreen.    I thought we should have selected an OL with the 2nd round Wilson pick...but none of the late first round and second round OL draft picks are burning it up yet.  Koonz, Ben whatshisname from Georgia, Reiff and others are underwhelming so far and maybe BB didn't see starting talent.  Maybe next draft we focus on a couple OL picks. 
    Posted by Eldunker


    Well, BB took a chance on Solder and Cannon. It is what it is. With Light retiring last season, and guys like Neal and Koppen on the way out - I had the OL as being the 2nd or 3rd area of need (after Secondary, and DE/OLB)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    You can add Jermaine Cunningham to the list of underperformers. I had high hopes for Cunningham but he looks like he's taken a step backwards.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense.

    I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time.

    Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now.

    Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.

     
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense. I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time. Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now. Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting


    let's see what the landscape looks like by the time they play the titans.
    Am optimistic of Waters, he's prolly got a pass as far as pre-season training. Solder is a project, needs footwork and gain some muscle in his legs. Maybe he should take Judo next off season.....lol.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense. I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time. Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now. Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting



    agree with your comments.
    said same on thread i started about it.
    though i dont think light comes back
    if they could get him to, that would be great.

     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    If the Pats had decent OL available talent, Cannon would not make the 53 player roster and Solder would be coming off the bench for another year.  The fact that we need to rely Cannon and Solder, even with Mankins back, is NOT a good sign.  Hopefully we get through this season without key OL injuries and sign some roster castoffs that can hold this line together to give Brady some time and open up holes for Ridley and Vreen.    I thought we should have selected an OL with the 2nd round Wilson pick...but none of the late first round and second round OL draft picks are burning it up yet.  Koonz, Ben whatshisname from Georgia, Reiff and others are underwhelming so far and maybe BB didn't see starting talent.  Maybe next draft we focus on a couple OL picks. 
    Posted by Eldunker


    i see ot need and dt need (new wilfork or wilfork lite), cb as well.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    I know they're young, but anyone else think Solder and Cannon had an underwhelming performance? I was planning on just enjoying the game last night, but couldn't help but notice that both players were not just 1/2 a step behind, but getting beaten on a regular basis w/o much fight. The secondary and OL continue to be the biggest question marks for this team.
    Posted by anonymis



    aslo see thread abotu volmer replace solder at left t

    " The secondary and OL continue to be the biggest question marks for this team."
    agreed
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    ^ Laz, and the other guy....

    Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype.

    Perhaps I am wrong and if I am I would assume BB would be scrambling to fix this very serious issue in the next few days. Hold me to it, but other then Volmer and perhaps a few back ups, I don't think we will be running to get a starting tackle. I think we knew what we had, and are not going to give up on them because of a pre season game.

    Cannon would have been a 1st or 2nd rd tackle if not for his disease. Solder would have been a 1st rd or 2nd  rd tackle if we hadn't of taken him at 17. These guys are talented, they're are just very inexperienced. If you remember Solder played RT last year, Cannon didn't play at all till week 10 and then sparingly.

    Everythings gonna be alright mon!
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    The Super Bowl is 23 weeks from Sunday. I'll worry about it then.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    TrueChamp ~ In terms of whether or not I'm in agreement with this: " Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype ." ...^ I believe that you could give Scar a 65 year old midget housewife from Mongolia, and Dante could at least , turn her in to a solid 2nd string 1st 1 off the bench, back-up starting Right or Left Guard. My take is FULLY centered within just HOW critical, and just HOW much more beneficial it will be in terms of Lombardi-hoisting postseason success, IF NE's Coaches and Players forward enough of a composed steadfastness and stick-to-it mindset (w/ this new scheme), verses dropping back on the much easier ('cause were pretty darn good at it) and the MUCH more enticing <think: "insidious"- "inevitably harmful BUT overwhelmingly enticing" /> BY abandoning this too quickly early on, in favor of a shotgun based, pass 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, spread type Offense. My sentiment is based on my belief that IF ALL of these guys have enough patience in order to hold true to this newer and far more diverse in it's multi-dimensional threats, '12 O Scheme...that it WILL and in my estimation DOES warrant A greater probability of NE Pats standing on the podium come February. It's a worry based on just how patient our guys can be and WILL be, in order to fully iron out the kinks and nuances of the curently lesser performing parcels in this altered Offensive design scheme. 
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium



    I have the same concerns with the RB's. If either of these guys have bad luck (Ridley fumbles twice early on, or Vareen gets injured again?) I'm worried about the recourse. It might just be too easy to fall back on what we have done for the last 5 years and start flinging the ball all over the place....but I don't think McDaniels will fall into that trap.

    Anyway, I see your point.....we aren't gonna find too many midgets. Not from Mongolia anyways....and even if we did Scar doesn't speak Mongol Khel...
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming.... : I have the same concerns with the RB's. If either of these guys have bad luck (Ridley fumbles twice early on, or Vareen gets injured again?) I'm worried about the recourse. It might just be too easy to fall back on what we have done for the last 5 years and start flinging the ball all over the place....but I don't think McDaniels will fall into that trap. Anyway, I see your point.....we aren't gonna find too many midgets. Not from Mongolia anyways....and even if we did Scar doesn't speak Mongol Khel ...
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I'm thinking the Pats should give the youngins as much play time pre-season as possible - and during early regular season games where we have a signficant lead. Hopefully, this would translate to a better prepared team by playoff time.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    ^ Laz, and the other guy.... Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype. Perhaps I am wrong and if I am I would assume BB would be scrambling to fix this very serious issue in the next few days. Hold me to it, but other then Volmer and perhaps a few back ups, I don't think we will be running to get a starting tackle. I think we knew what we had, and are not going to give up on them because of a pre season game. Cannon would have been a 1st or 2nd rd tackle if not for his disease. Solder would have been a 1st rd or 2nd  rd tackle if we hadn't of taken him at 17. These guys are talented, they're are just very inexperienced. If you remember Solder played RT last year, Cannon didn't play at all till week 10 and then sparingly. Everythings gonna be alright mon!
    Posted by TrueChamp



    Not trying to be a wise azz here. Larry Bird ain’t walking through that door folks. What our Offensive Line did in the past is the same as me staring in the mirror trying to remember what I looked like when I had hair.

     

    Don’t live in the past, it never serves the future. Players get old, Light and Koppen were the rock of that line and only now do we realize just how much they meant to that line.

     

    Back to my hair, it’s gone, Light and Koppen the same.

     

    Please be honest with yourself. The dam starting leaking during the 2008 Super Bowl and in spite of best efforts the leak is still there. Not the Pats fault that Vollmer and Kazur blew their backs out. They needed to realize Koppen had started losing his hair a few seasons ago. Solder was and is a project. Some say you never roll the dice on a project in the first round. The football gods sent us Waters last season.

     

    At this time we do not have a “stud” or a leader on the Offensive Line.

     

    This game is won and lost on the D and O lines, always has been, always will be.

     

    Learn from the past, don’t yearn for it. I eat, sleep and drink football. I am simply grading the Pats performance on their management of the O line as I would grade the performance of my sales staff on a yearly basis.

     

    No competent sales staff, my company flounders. Poor O line, the Pats Offensive simply can’t work and will harm this season. The warts starting showing in February of 2008.

     

    I sincerely hope they can get it straightened out in time.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    Philadelphia's defensive line is ridiculously good, says profootballfocus.com.

    That said, Solder is a near-rookie (lockout last preseason) and he will probably straighten his technique out.  Cannon is both a near-rookie (chemotherapy last preseason, worse than the lockout for arresting development) and underwhelming at tackle. 

    BB needs near-rookie Cannon to back up Vollmer.  Who else does he have as a tackle?  So, Cannon gets the reps.

    Does Cannon have some injury, hopefully a small one, that cuts his effectiveness temporarily?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming.... : Not trying to be a wise azz here. Larry Bird ain’t walking through that door folks. What our Offensive Line did in the past is the same as me staring in the mirror trying to remember what I looked like when I had hair.   Don’t live in the past, it never serves the future. Players get old, Light and Koppen were the rock of that line and only now do we realize just how much they meant to that line.   Back to my hair, it’s gone, Light and Koppen the same.   Please be honest with yourself. The dam starting leaking during the 2008 Super Bowl and in spite of best efforts the leak is still there. Not the Pats fault that Vollmer and Kazur blew their backs out. They needed to realize Koppen had started losing his hair a few seasons ago. Solder was and is a project. Some say you never roll the dice on a project in the first round. The football gods sent us Waters last season.   At this time we do not have a “stud” or a leader on the Offensive Line.   This game is won and lost on the D and O lines, always has been, always will be.   Learn from the past, don’t yearn for it. I eat, sleep and drink football. I am simply grading the Pats performance on their management of the O line as I would grade the performance of my sales staff on a yearly basis.

    Well, it must be tough working for you. The Pats O-line is ranked #2 going into the year. It was ranked #2 in 2011 and #6 in 2010. Granted O-line rankings are difficult and up to interpretation but a lot of people share the opinion that the O-line has been one of the best in the league for a long long time.
    http://football.about.com/od/fantasyfootball/a/Offensive_Line.htm

    http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/7/17/3160866/packers-patriots-nfl-offensive-line-rankings

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/40484/179/2012-offensive-line-rankings

    2. New England Patriots

    EAST RUTHERFORD, NJ - SEPTEMBER 20:  Logan Mankins #70 of the New England Patriots against the New York Jets at Giants Stadium on September 20, 2009 in East Rutherford, New Jersey.  (Photo by Nick Laham/Getty Images)
    Nick Laham/Getty Images

    Starters- LT Matt Light, LG Logan Mankins, C Dan Koeppen, RG Dan Connolly, RT Sebastian Vollmer

    2010 Offensive Rankings- 9th Rushing (123.1 YPG), 11th Passing (240 YPG), 4th Sacks Allowed (25)

    New England Patriots QB Tom Brady wouldn't be where he is today without the fabulous offensive line group he has in New England.

    This group does everything really well. They are in the top of the league in every offensive category, including top-five in sacks allowed on the aforementioned Brady.

    Logan Mankins and Matt Light are some of the toughest lineman in the game and Sebastian Vollmer and Dan Koeppen are getting closer and closer to the same elite status.

    Their protection is the foundation of the Patriots' explosive offense, creating an impenetrable wall for all NFL defenses.



       No competent sales staff, my company flounders. Poor O line, the Pats Offensive simply can’t work and will harm this season.

    Well sure but that has never happened in the BB,Tom Brady era. So what are you basing this worry on?
    "The pats offensive simply can't work"???? You think this from A pre season game?

     The warts starting showing in February of 2008.   I sincerely hope they can get it straightened out in time.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting


    You say the warts started showing in Feb 2008 but then we went on to have one of the top ranked O-lines for the next 5 years so.....
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    I don't expect to see too much time if any for Vollmer or Mankins tonight. I said in other post earlier Mondays game game was all about evaluating players abilities to fit into game plans and situations. Replacing Matt Light is not going to happen overnight,Light was a HOF LT in my opinion, Dante Scarnechia will have his hands full filling the hole that Light left behind,but I think he will be up to the task. Who knows maybe Matt himself will miss the game and leave the evil Empire and rejoin the Pats, who knows? Dante is one of, if not THE best OL coach in football so I am confident he will have the line humming on all 5,7 or 8 cylinders depending on the formation by opening game kick off.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    I think Cannon would be better at RG. The Pats need to get healthy Vollmer back and Waters has to return. The Pats faced a great defensive line, they had there ups and downs. Thing is, with the O Line, you are always two or three injuries away from being porous.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    I think Cannon would be better at RG. The Pats need to get healthy Vollmer back and Waters has to return. The Pats faced a great defensive line, they had there ups and downs. Thing is, with the O Line, you are always two or three injuries away from being porous.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz


    At this juncture, it doesn't look like Solder is ready to start at left tackle. He's lacking in balance and foot work. ThatI can come only w/ more practice and game experience.  If Vollmer is ready to come back, I think he'd play better at LT vs. Solder. If he's not healthy, then let's take our chances with Solder and let him learn on the fly (and hopefully, he would be fine by mid-season).

    I'm assuming contracturally, Waters is being allowed to not participate in pre season stuff. In case he does not come back, what are they going to do at RT?
     
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