some very interesting observations from PFF

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    some very interesting observations from PFF

    Sam Monson | December 9, 2013

    In a funny kind of way this game turned out exactly as expected, but it took an unusual path to get to that familiar result. The Browns haven’t beaten the Patriots in Foxboro since Bill Belichick was coaching them, and though they jumped out to a decent lead in this game and led for all but 6:08 of game time (5:47 of that coming before either side got on the scoreboard), it was the final seconds of action that snatched defeat from what had seemed assured victory not long before.

    The Patriots had an ugly day for the most part, but you have to credit them for the way they were able to plug away at the deficit, putting themselves in a position to mount the comeback in a way not many teams can. In the end it was a dubious defensive pass interference call which was perhaps the game’s single most defining play, which for several reasons I think we can all agree is a shame.

    But let’s take a look inside the game at who stood out either way.

    Cleveland — Three Performances of Note

    Receiving Studs

    It wasn’t long ago that Jordan Cameron was just a guy people wanted to see get a few more targets and Josh Gordon was being talked about as a trade option for the Browns, but right now they form one of the most potent 1-2 passing combinations in the NFL. The pair was targeted 17 times in this game, and caught all but one of those passes for a total of 272 yards and two scores. Gordon also drew multiple flags against Aqib Talib who was simply overmatched in the encounter. While we can debate whether this Jordan Cameron was always there had he just been thrown the ball a little, Gordon looks to me a completely different physical specimen from his rookie season. He looks far more physically dominant and is putting that together with his talent for the game to form one of the league’s top receivers right now. His past few games have been setting franchise and all-time league marks and that’s without an All-Pro quarterback getting him the football. The Cleveland front office might have made the smartest decision of their new tenure by ignoring any trade phone calls they may have had for Gordon before the deadline.

    Linebackers… Not Cornerbacks

    I often wonder at times when linebackers are split out to cover running backs or tight ends how many snaps they have spent essentially playing cornerback on an island, which is what they’re being asked to do. For Craig Robertson if that answer is more than five it doesn’t show by the way he was trying to cover Shane Vereen in that exact scenario. Left totally exposed on the right side of the defense, Robertson was just blown by on Vereen’s way to a 50-yard reception and a play later was left for dead on a little circle route, again by Vereen. The only thing that might make Robertson feel better is that he won’t have the worst lowlight that gets thrown up on the Browns’ linebacker meeting room projector this week. MLB D’Qwell Jackson was pancaked by Danny Amendola, all 183lbs of him, down by the goal line as the Patriots punched the ball across the line.

    The Best Pass Protector in Football

    Joe Thomas, the best pass protecting LT in the game, still is. It’s been a while since I’ve said his name in any context so it’s probably worth reminding people that Thomas is still the guy who sets the standard in terms of keeping his quarterback clean. Despite the Browns dropping back from center an incredible distance most of the game, Thomas was able to see his man deep enough to provide a clean pocket for his quarterback and surrendered just two hurries from 49 pass blocking snaps. The Browns’ line as a whole did extremely well in this area in fact, combining to allow just a sack, a hit and five more hurries between the six of them (Jason Pinkston came in for LG John Greco and played 57 snaps).

    New England — Three Performances of Note

    Run-Stuffing Specialist

    Before this game, Sealver Siliga’s career was a total of 20 snaps old – four with the Broncos last year and 16 last week against Houston. The Patriots must have liked what they saw in limited action (he graded +1.2 at PFF) because he saw 53 snaps in this game, more than double his career total. He responded with some impressive play against the run, and looked like there was more to come. On a couple of occasions he had the beating of his man, tossing the blocker aside just a fraction too late to make a play on the running back coming past. This is the best I have seen any Patriots D-lineman play the run since the loss of Wilfork, and if the Patriots can start to lean on Siliga going forward then they may be able to start to readjust the rest of the defensive front to get more pass rush.

    Tough Running

    I’ve always though LeGarrette Blount was a better runner than many give him credit for. Maybe he’s got limitations, but games like this show his good side too. As part of a three-headed monster with Stevan Ridley and Shane Vereen, Blount was able to post 42 yards from his eight carries (5.3 per carry) and force a couple of missed tackles along the way. He also chipped in with a nice 32-yard reception. Ridley also made a couple of nice cuts running the football but wasn’t a factor in the passing game, while Vereen could only notch nine yards rushing (though one was a score) but hauled in 153 yards worth of receptions on fifteen targets. Vereen was, in fact, targeted five times more than any other Patriot, catching almost twice as many passes for more than twice as many yards.

    AWOL Pass Rush

    The Browns couldn’t have shown much more contempt for New England’s rush if they’d painted a target on Jason Campbell and offered to buy anybody who hit it a new car. They spent all game dropping Campbell back abnormally deep in the pocket – usually a green light for pass-rushers to shoot up field around slower offensive tackles – and let him hold the ball for plenty of time in his passes. Despite all that, the Patriots couldn’t really generate any rush to speak of. Only Rob Ninkovich managed more than two total pressures, getting a sack, a knockdown and four hurries from his day’s work, but even those plays were often slow to develop and required some help. In total, Campbell was pressured on just 10 drop-backs, while he was kept completely clean on 37. On those 37 snaps his passer rating was 120.3 and 14 points came from those throws.

    Game Notes

    - Aqib Talib gave up 141 of Josh Gordon’s 151 receiving yards, with the 80-yard touchdown a particular low moment. He was also flagged three times.

    - When under pressure, Tom Brady had a passer rating of just 18.8 and a PFF grade of -5.2, but when kept clean those numbers were 112.9 and +4.1.

    - Jason Campbell did not complete a pass that traveled more than 19 yards in the air despite drop-backs of 10+ yards in depth all day long.

    PFF Game Ball

    Catching all nine of his targets for 121 yards and a touchdown, I can’t look beyond Jordan Cameron here even in a losing effort.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF


    good post Rkarp.

    not surprising that when u keep Brady clean he will succeed. also thought the D line's pass rush was atrocious. that needs to improve big time. the run D looked good but it was against a bad running game still tests to come for those guys.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    I counted Brday under pressure on 21 drop backs and he was also sacked 4 times...so on 25 drop backs his passer rating was very poor due to pressure. when kept clean, his rating was 112...to say TB played a poor game is crazy...yes, he would like to have some throws back...but he played very well in spite of a poor performance by his o line

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I counted Brday under pressure on 21 drop backs and he was also sacked 4 times...so on 25 drop backs his passer rating was very poor due to pressure. when kept clean, his rating was 112...to say TB played a poor game is crazy...yes, he would like to have some throws back...but he played very well in spite of a poor performance by his o line

    [/QUOTE]

    yes, also I've stated this on many threads. that dumb PA where TB trots and sometimes even fakes a reverse to a WR too he ALWAYS gets killed.

    also ive noticed that anytime we pull a guard or any Ol for that matter things go bad.. whether its a run or PA it doesnt end well. need more consistentcy there

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    Like I said, the elephant in the room is the O-line. The D is doing okay considering the injuries. No worse than in recent years when they didn't have such injuries.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I counted Brday under pressure on 21 drop backs and he was also sacked 4 times...so on 25 drop backs his passer rating was very poor due to pressure. when kept clean, his rating was 112...to say TB played a poor game is crazy...yes, he would like to have some throws back...but he played very well in spite of a poor performance by his o line

    [/QUOTE]

    He needs to throw a TD when he's under pressure, not throw a pick.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said, the elephant in the room is the O-line. The D is doing okay considering the injuries. No worse than in recent years when they didn't have such injuries.

    [/QUOTE]

    Explains why Brady just can't make those progression reads.  He may release the ball quickly, but, his pocket collapses so quickly, he is pressured.  Some of those sacks happened so fast they looked like they happened immediately, too!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    Just a great post

    if you don't have time to throw you cant

    if you have time you may

    And Campbell is a good Qb , ask Bb, with great wrs who got great yac

    A note, we always seem to get the best from each team and almost all

    of these teams have had very good front 7s

    For us to survive our Oline has to play better and give TB a chance,  with all the speed we have at wr and vereen, TB has a chance but he needs time and has to be at his best. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF


    Seems like what I saw and mentioned. Biggest issue going forward is  pass rush. THose #s by campbell make me sick in the stomach.

    I like Silva too and noticed the upgrade in our run D. Maybe he can force a double team and let someone else make plays.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    I really like Silva, he impressed me. Hope he can keep it up.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    Translation:  Protect Brady and he'll pick apart the defense.  OL has to step up if we want to have any chance of success in the playoffs.  He was put under pressure way too many times on Sunday.

    Also, as others have noted, Siliga played pretty well.  It was refreshing to see a DL not get thrown around or thrown backward 3 yards after every snap.  Hopefully he doesn't wear down by the time playoffs come around because we will need some consistency in run stopping.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So basically if Brady can stand still and not get pressured he will have a better QB rating? Is that right?

    Of course it is. All QB's in the League would have a better rating if they can just stand there.Brady's problem is he just hates to get hit. Pressure him and Old "happy Feet Brady" shows up and the next thing you know he's throwing INT's in the endzone to end the game.

    The days of the dropback QB are coming to an end.The Wilsons and the RG3's of the world are the new generation. Out w the old and in w the new!

     I never watch the pats unless they are playing the Jets or they are the only game on. Is Brady still doing that emasculating pounding the turf anytime a defender just brushes up against him while screaming at the ref looking for a flag?

    I hope not.

     [/QUOTE]

    WOW!!  A lucid statement!!!  And.. it was followed by another..  name a QB who loves to get hit?  Lastly, read what Tuck said about Brady..  not what a "couch potato fan" like yourself says.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said, the elephant in the room is the O-line. The D is doing okay considering the injuries. No worse than in recent years when they didn't have such injuries.

    [/QUOTE]

    If only Luck or Manning had the Oline Brady's played behind all these years.  Boy would things be better.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    < In the end it was a dubious defensive pass interference call which was perhaps the game’s single most defining play, which for several reasons I think we can all agree is a shame.>

    rkarp, I know you're quoting so my comments aren't directed to you. I completely disagree with the bolded phrases in this quote.  There was nothing dubiious about the PI call.  The only thing dubious about it was where the official said that it occurred.  And I most certainly do not agree that it was a 'shame' in any way, shape or form that this call was a defining moment in the game.  Penalties are part of the game and often define the outcome (see NYJ and Carolina).  Let 'em eat cake!

    Otherwise a good read and quite accurate.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said, the elephant in the room is the O-line. The D is doing okay considering the injuries. No worse than in recent years when they didn't have such injuries.

    [/QUOTE]

    If only Luck or Manning had the Oline Brady's played behind all these years.  Boy would things be better.

    [/QUOTE]


    I can agree Luck hasnt played behind the best line but Manning??  Cmon man. Manning has been the best protected QB BY FAR in the last 15 years save for maybe his rookie year when he got killed but that was more to do with him being a rook and adjusting to pro game. You will get no sympathy here. Even when Manning DOES take the rare sack, he doesnt even get hit. They are usually coverage sacks that allow him time to curl up on the ground in a fetal position like a little baby.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    I can agree Luck hasnt played behind the best line but Manning??  Cmon man. Manning has been the best protected QB BY FAR in the last 15 years save for maybe his rookie year when he got killed but that was more to do with him being a rook and adjusting to pro game. You will get no sympathy here. Even when Manning DOES take the rare sack, he doesnt even get hit. They are usually coverage sacks that allow him time to curl up on the ground in a fetal position like a little baby.



    Haven't you  heard?  When Brady doesn't get sacked it is because of his great protection.  When Manning doesn't get sacked it's because of his quick release.  His OL actually sucks.  LMFAO!

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I stopped reading when it said Talib was overmatched in the encounter. Talib, whether with help or not, shut down Gordon in the first half and most of the second. Gordon only had that one catch and run for the TD.

    This is a classic case of them looking at a statline and clearly not watching the game.

    Take away the one 80 yard catch and run and Gordon did nothing.  Bess and Little also did nothing.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you want 60 minutes of consistent play from your QB, but 30 minutes is fine from your best and highest paid CB?  I'm shocked at your complete lack of consistency.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said, the elephant in the room is the O-line. The D is doing okay considering the injuries. No worse than in recent years when they didn't have such injuries.

    [/QUOTE]

    Explains why Brady just can't make those progression reads.  He may release the ball quickly, but, his pocket collapses so quickly, he is pressured.  Some of those sacks happened so fast they looked like they happened immediately, too!

    [/QUOTE]


    True. It's not like these have been coverage sacks. Guys are just blowing in within a couple of seconds.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I stopped reading when it said Talib was overmatched in the encounter. Talib, whether with help or not, shut down Gordon in the first half and most of the second. Gordon only had that one catch and run for the TD.

    This is a classic case of them looking at a statline and clearly not watching the game.

    Take away the one 80 yard catch and run and Gordon did nothing.  Bess and Little also did nothing.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, you want 60 minutes of consistent play from your QB, but 30 minutes is fine from your best and highest paid CB?  I'm shocked at your complete lack of consistency.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is what you do consistently well here; bludgeoning the idiot Rusty. His stupidity apparently provides you with clarity. Stick to that, because when you don't, your bias clouds your vision.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I stopped reading when it said Talib was overmatched in the encounter. Talib, whether with help or not, shut down Gordon in the first half and most of the second. Gordon only had that one catch and run for the TD.

    This is a classic case of them looking at a statline and clearly not watching the game.

    Take away the one 80 yard catch and run and Gordon did nothing.  Bess and Little also did nothing.

    [/QUOTE]


    why should we take it away though? YOu cant pick and choose what stats to ignore buddy. You have YET to give anyone on offense a pass and they are the ones that started slow with a lot of new skill players. The D was touted as returning 10 starters. I agree that Talib did a good job considering the games he had before now with over 200 yards recieving but the fact is , the secondary gave up an 80 yard score. Why are we taking it away? Why did they need Bess and Little to do anything when the combo  of cameron/jordan produced 16 completions on 17 targets. Read that again. 16 completions on 17 targets. Cameron was 7-7. So yes, Talib played well for the most part but the secondary never did anything to slow down Cameron and Gordon made the big play he is supposed to. That was unfortunately on BB/Patricia for selling out to the run and getting burned by an agressive N.Turner

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: some very interesting observations from PFF

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said, the elephant in the room is the O-line. The D is doing okay considering the injuries. No worse than in recent years when they didn't have such injuries.

    [/QUOTE]

    If only Luck or Manning had the Oline Brady's played behind all these years.  Boy would things be better.

    [/QUOTE]

         Hey Gomez...how's that Trent Richardson deal workin' for ya'??

         LOL!!!

     
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