Spygate or Saints worse

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Spygate or Saints worse": Hmmmm....whats my point....lets see, there have been seven Super Bowls played since spygate, the Patriots won none of them, but in the proceeding 3 of 4 yrs while they spied, the Patroits did win. rhis broad has made art form out of connecting dots....spend 1/10 th of the effort in this instance.
    Posted by PorterRULES[/QUOTE]

    Ummmmm...... there have been 4 SB's since spygate......NOT 7.  The Pats were IN 2 of them(how did they get there?) The Giants won 2, Packers 1, Saints 1.
    28 other teams have not won.  What are their reasons, Goon?
    Try using facts to back up your distorted opinion.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Spygate hurt no one.  Just a bunch of hot air over filming on the sidelines being blown out of proportion by the media and those fans who hate the Pats.  Bounties, on the other hand, probably cost some players their careers with an unneccessarily violent hit in order for the defender to attain a bounty payment.  The Spygate issue palls in comparison!
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In response to "Re: Spygate or Saints worse": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : Ummmmm...... there have been 4 SB's since spygate......NOT 7.  The Pats were IN 2 of them(how did they get there?) The Giants won 2, Packers 1, Saints 1. 28 other teams have not won.  What are their reasons, Goon? Try using facts to back up your distorted opinion. Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE] Goon? There is no reason for name calling here, unless thats your plan to win the debate. But you are right...there havent been seven SB since Spygate broke, but youre alsowrong because there havent been four either. There have been five SB since Spygate broke in Sept 2007. And for the record the wiining teams were the NYGiants, Pittsburgh Steelers, NO Saints, GB Packers, and NY Giants. Regardless, my point still stands, pre-Spygate the Pariots played in 3 out of 6 SBs (including one nearly Brady-free season) and were 3 - 0 in these games. Since Spygate, the Patriots have not won a SB, and are 0-2. Posters here are genrally quick to suggest cause and effect...maybe this is a cause for such consideration.... God bless, Pezz
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    It's a no brainer that what the Saints (more specifically Gregg Williams) did is far worse. 

    People say "well, that's part of football". That's BS. There has always been a Dick Butkis or Ray Nitschke player that delivers devastating hits. This is giving players monetary incentive (multi-millionare players already mind you) to INJURE a player. To thoese that say "everybody does it" well, I say "they got caught!". I am hearing the same excuses I heard during "spygate". 

    Regarding "spygate", you need to look at the INTENT. BB did what many other coaches did at the time. Many former NFL coaches have said as much. Tell you what, I'll bet it goes on more now than it did then. Cameras are in cellphones and small enough to hide them anywhere now. 

    What Gregg Williams did goes beyond that. Waaaaay beyond. Goodell had best be harsh in his penalty to send a clear message that the NFL will not morph into Rollerball. If he doesn't at least take away the 1st rounder this year AND next plus a million dollar fine (minimum) and BAN Gregg Williams from the NFL then the NFL needs to apologize to the Patriots.  
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Spygate being blown out of proportion is putting it mildly.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=schreiber_leanne&id=3438752
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Spygate or Saints worse": Goon? There is no reason for name calling here, unless thats your plan to win the debate. But you are right...there havent been seven SB since Spygate broke, but youre alsowrong because there havent been four either. There have been five SB since Spygate broke in Sept 2007. And for the record the wiining teams were the NYGiants, Pittsburgh Steelers, NO Saints, GB Packers, and NY Giants. Regardless, my point still stands, pre-Spygate the Pariots played in 3 out of 6 SBs (including one nearly Brady-free season) and were 3 - 0 in these games. Since Spygate, the Patriots have not won a SB, and are 0-2. Posters here are genrally quick to suggest cause and effect...maybe this is a cause for such consideration.... God bless, Pezz
    Posted by PorterRULES[/QUOTE]

    You are right sir, there were 5.  Wrote that before I had my Cheerios.
    How ever your cause and effect theory is entirely off base.
    If they had totally tanked since 2007, you might have a point, however, the Pats Are the winningest team in football, since that time.
    You're theory of losing in 2 games would also have to apply to the other 80+ games they played. (not just the play-offs).
    Did taping from the wrong spot on the field only account for post season wins?
    You do know that taping is legal, right?  Teams are required to provide the other team a place to do that if they so desire.
    You do know that there is nothing in the books in the NFL, that says you can't steal signals, don't you?  If not, show me the bi-law that says stealing signals is prohibited.  You can't because there isn't one.
    You do know that you can get the same info from studying coaches tapes, don't you.  They can just as easily figure tendacies due to formations and circumstance especially since it is digitally done now with computers.  All you have to do is click a button.  Every team has the capability and does do this.

    BB was punished for breaking a rule that in the history of the NFL had never been enforced before, even though it is well known that it was common practice with some of the "old school Coaches" , who prefer video tape to the newer computer technology, even though the newer method is actually more benificial.
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : It doesn't matter what they were taping. According to the memo: “ Videotaping of any type , including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines , in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe is right.  And this memo was issued just before the Patriots violated it.  So, it had absolutely no impact on the previous Superbowls, when videotaping outside of these guidelines was widespread.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]Spygate, potentially, damaged the integrity of the game. Posted by dapats1281[/QUOTE]

    What's that supposed to mean?
    A specific act either does or does not "damage integrity".
    I really can't see how any reasonable person (i.e. not a hater) could put filming practices that were open to the public into that category. 
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    bounty thing has gone on for years.. ain't nothing new.
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    I disagree with most of the posts here about bounty-gate. I think it's already being greatly overexaggerated. Yes, it was an infraction but I do also think other teams were doing this. When I watched the saints-packers game I don't remember seeing anything blatantly illegal by the Saints. the D played a hell of a game in my opinion. i disagree with the rule that the NFL can strip draft picks for any infraction. To me, that's ridiculous. I'm still waiting for the apology for Godell and the first round pick returns for the most OVERBLOWN news story in the history of sports!!!!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Unbelievable! What a bunch of !d!ot's. Within two minutes of the story braking of the Saints offences three threads went up to discuss the topic. Two of which dredge up 4 year old news that NO true Pats fan would even consider discussing again and one did not consider rehashing that old topic and looked to discuss the topic of the SAINTS offences alone as they stand and avoid that old topic. The one that opened the discussions of the Bounty offences with no reference to 07 got ZERO posts, but the two that chose to make 07 the point and correlate it to the Saints offences have sailed past 145 in less than 48 hours. Disgusting. Us true fans that refuse to acknowledge ANY more discussions of the persecution of the Pats in 07 are sickened by the fact that too many supposed Pats fans refuse to let it die. All here on this thread who continue to make the point of discussing the persecution of 07, when the topic is the breaking of the cap rules and encouraging of intentional player injuries by the Saints are either trolls or id!ots for falling into that troll trap again. The Saints were the offenders here, has nothing to do with the Pats, so why bring it up. Disgusting. Does Denvers cap abuse that lead to their last superbowl  come up every time some one breaks the rules? Or how about the admitted outrageous Steroid use that lead to the heyday of the Iron curtain in Pit come up when asterious's are discuses? Or the admitted proliferation of the use of Cocaine on Dallas's squad in their heyday. NO those topics have ALL been brushed under the carpet by the entire NFL community. BUT the "Pats Fans" (used sparingly) REFUSE to let their own F*** up fade into the past and continue to splash that Sh!t up against the wall every chance they can get. Disgusting. LET IT DIE! leave it up to the trolls to wallow in that mire with out even acknowledging it. Can't you discuss current news relating to the SAINTS without digging back 4 1/2 years to find a way to mix the PATS name into some one else's crimes. THIS IS A SAINTS ISSUE. Has nothing to do with the Pats.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    I don't care that the Saints were offering "bounties." I expect a lot of teams do that.
    Where I live people were apopleptic over the Saints trying to kill Brett Favre -- and they were -- in the 2009 NFC Championship Game, but I only remember them being flagged for unnecessary roughness once.

    Now . . .   if somebody were to suggest that "bounties" were being offered to officials to ostensibly look the other way while a game was allowed to get out of hand, that might be a story.

    As it is, this is yet another tempest in a teapot on the road to flag football in the NFL.

     
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    Where is the Welker signing?

    26 hours left and so big contract for Wes R U crazy??  If they let him walk or Franchise him I will have lost all faith in Kraft and the Pats.. This 11th hour crap is for the birds.. Sign the man to a good deal and keep him as a Patriot for his career.  What about BJGE too??? sheeesh..  This is why we can never close the deal in the big game... Tryin to squeeze a nickle out of a penny...
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]I don't care that the Saints were offering "bounties." I expect a lot of teams do that. Where I live people were apopleptic over the Saints trying to kill Brett Favre -- and they were -- in the 2009 NFC Championship Game, but I only remember them being flagged for unnecessary roughness once. Now . . .   if somebody were to suggest that "bounties" were being offered to officials to ostensibly look the other way while a game was allowed to get out of hand, that might be a story. As it is, this is yet another tempest in a teapot on the road to flag football in the NFL.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    Its not the direct point of bounties being offered (although it is a salary cap violation), it is the point of what the bounties were offered for. Now we all know that ankle twisting,eye gouging and finger busting have occurred in the piles created in the NFL, BUT encouraging and rewarding that type of action and any similar actions is more than disgusting and bordering on CRIMINAL ( such intentional acts are NOT part of the game, and possibly may be liable not only criminally but civilly, WATCH). The point is that what was a despicable and dirty act that many players would do but not admit to in shame is not only brought out in the open team wide but accepted and encouraged with cash payments. That is the crime here, and the fact that they were caught, instructed to stop, and continued to use the policy and conspired to LYE about it for two years after they were given the chance to stop. This is NOT a softening of the league, it is removal of a CRIMINAL action occurring within the confines of the game. Intentionally destroying a players knee (probably career ending)for the sake of the game or bounty is NOT part of the game, but a criminal act. In my opinion IF a player ends another players season on an illegal action so to should their season end. If it is career ending the perpetrators career is over and he will be liable for reimbursing the hurt player for lost career earnings. This is a serious matter and I applaud Godell(choke,choke,cough) for taking this chance to deal with an age old embarrassing part of the game. A stand must be taken to end the causeing of intentional injuries in the NFL, enough injuries happen during the course of legaly playing the game, and reckless players illegaly hitting other players. If your career is over by ending someone else's with an illegal hit the prctice will end, 15 yd penalties and 100K fines have NO IMPACT.
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    There is a difference between playing physical and playing to injure players. I expect players to get injured; it is a collision sport. The Pats secondary played physical against the Greatest Show on Turf; jamming guys at the line and hammering receivers after they made the catch, upsetting the timing of the Rams offense. Putting a bounty on a player is a different animal entirely. I expect players to get injured, but putting money on the table to make it happen is different than reading IR report and going after a guy.

    Fairly certain this has happened before (bounties Ryan's Eagles). One would be naive if they thought that this practice only involved one organization. It's all fun and games until you get caught, concise evidence is produced and players and coaches are implicated. They are forcing Goodell's hand. It seems obvious that he can't do nothing.
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Spygate or Saints worse": Hmmmm....whats my point....lets see, there have been seven Super Bowls played since spygate, the Patriots won none of them, but in the proceeding 3 of 4 yrs while they spied, the Patroits did win. rhis broad has made art form out of connecting dots....spend 1/10 th of the effort in this instance.
    Posted by PorterRULES[/QUOTE]

    I had a pretty bad "connect-the-dots fixation" myself, which eventually came to a head on my 8th birthday after my parent's found that I had strayed from one'a my connect-the-dots workbook pictures, onto random speckles of varnish on our hardwordwood floors, On-to and up the wall- connecting each and every one of even the smallest tiniest specks of water marks and minuscule pin-sized smudges, And over and across the shelves up and down the line as I fanatically connected the old age warts on the pic of Uncle Paul to random parts of portrait of Auntie Esther in her hairnet- Down and Up, Up and down the several rows (without hesitation or excuse towards me including the porcelain Jesus in his manger scene)-  My parent's eventually grabbed the bright green magic marker outta my hand after fishin' me outta the refridgerator's fruit bin, The family dog and my tat work on her back was apparently what narc-ed me out in the end prior to me finishing up...
     
    Again, I was 8...  They forced me to seek help in focusing in on what actually constitutes "correct" and "sensible" and "real" connective properties between things.         
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : Its not the direct point of bounties being offered (although it is a salary cap violation), it is the point of what the bounties were offered for. Now we all know that ankle twisting,eye gouging and finger busting have occurred in the piles created in the NFL, BUT encouraging and rewarding that type of action and any similar actions is more than disgusting and bordering on CRIMINAL ( such intentional acts are NOT part of the game, and possibly may be liable not only criminally but civilly, WATCH). The point is that what was a despicable and dirty act that many players would do but not admit to in shame is not only brought out in the open team wide but accepted and encouraged with cash payments. That is the crime here, and the fact that they were caught, instructed to stop, and continued to use the policy and conspired to LYE about it for two years after they were given the chance to stop. This is NOT a softening of the league, it is removal of a CRIMINAL action occurring within the confines of the game. Intentionally destroying a players knee (probably career ending)for the sake of the game or bounty is NOT part of the game, but a criminal act. In my opinion IF a player ends another players season on an illegal action so to should their season end. If it is career ending the perpetrators career is over and he will be liable for reimbursing the hurt player for lost career earnings. This is a serious matter and I applaud Godell(choke,choke,cough) for taking this chance to deal with an age old embarrassing part of the game. A stand must be taken to end the causeing of intentional injuries in the NFL, enough injuries happen during the course of legaly playing the game, and reckless players illegaly hitting other players. If your career is over by ending someone else's with an illegal hit the prctice will end, 15 yd penalties and 100K fines have NO IMPACT.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]

    I don't know if you could call it idiotic as fan are once again, thrust into the spygate dilemma as people such as John Clayton ARE comparing it to SpyGate.
    5 yrs later, fans are forced to defend their team, but you are right, there is no comparison.
    It's just when you see comments like "Belicheat taught him to do it", It makes blood boil.  Any and all team indiscretions will forever be compared to it, unfortunately.
    I'm sure all Pats fans would prefer it go away, but as long as jackazzes like Clayton are around, it won't.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4718586/clayton-worse-than-spygate
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : I don't know if you could call it idiotic as fan are once again, thrust into the spygate dilemma as people such as John Clayton ARE comparing it to SpyGate. 5 yrs later, fans are forced to defend their team, but you are right, there is no comparison. It's just when you see comments like "Belicheat taught him to do it", It makes blood boil.  Any and all team indiscretions will forever be compared to it, unfortunately. I'm sure all Pats fans would prefer it go away, but as long as jackazzes like Clayton are around, it won't. http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4718586/clayton-worse-than-spygate
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    If fans would ignore and refuse to acknowledge those so call journalist whose only option to get HITS on their work is by stirring up the same pot for 5 yrs they would not be around any more. But as long as you let them get to you for any attention to their work, they win. ALL that old sh!t was and still is LAME which shows how weak his opinion is. Where is his research and opinions backed by that research? Not their, just a LAZY rehashing of old lines mixed in with the rumor they have picked up to fill in space in their reports which actualy contain NO informative material.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : If fans would ignore and refuse to acknowledge those so call journalist whose only option to get HITS on their work is by stirring up the same pot for 5 yrs they would not be around any more. But as long as you let them get to you for any attention to their work, they win. ALL that old sh!t was and still is LAME which shows how weak his opinion is. Where is his research and opinions backed by that research? Not their, just a LAZY rehashing of old lines mixed in with the rumor they have picked up to fill in space in their reports which actualy contain NO informative material.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]

    It's just that I don't think ignoring bad behaviour is the answer. The attention getting type just gets more intense and desperate if ignored. I think a letter to the editor is more apropos.  Ignoring it isn't going to make it go away.  The other 99% of the population that aren't Pats fans will always throw it in your face and years later, they still are.
    I agree 100% that was a baseless and faceless article.  Where does he get off saying "SpyGate didn't hurt any one except if it were a close game".  W T F would warrant that and where is the evidence of it affecting anything?
    Then you have the others who insist spygate is much worse.  Again, you are right there is no comparison but if you have to compare, it's about like comparing a speeding ticket to vehicular homicide. IMHO

    What's really funny is that the majority of dumbazzes that are labeling everything with "Gate" , don't even know where it originated.
    Brilliant!
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Looks like they may hand out some big suspension to the saints
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : Again, you are right there is no comparison but if you have to compare, it's about like comparing a speeding ticket to vehicular homicide. IMHO What's really funny is that the majority of dumbazzes that are labeling everything with "Gate" , don't even know where it originated. Brilliant!
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Seriously, It's like some people are just soooo stvp!d-

    SpyGate: Because most certainly in order to get ON the field as a camera man to begin with, the guy no doubt, HAD to end up walking through at least 1 or 2 gates granting him access to the field...while everything else is undoubtedly simply an off-shoot of this original term and usage. 

    Lucky for me I graduated at the top of my town's U.S. public high school class so I know all about history and current events and how if you shoot warm salt water into some soda machines sometimes 47 cans come out, and stuff...
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]Unbelievable! What a bunch of !d!ot's. Within two minutes of the story braking of the Saints offences three threads went up to discuss the topic. Two of which dredge up 4 year old news that NO true Pats fan would even consider discussing again and one did not consider rehashing that old topic and looked to discuss the topic of the SAINTS offences alone as they stand and avoid that old topic. The one that opened the discussions of the Bounty offences with no reference to 07 got ZERO posts, but the two that chose to make 07 the point and correlate it to the Saints offences have sailed past 145 in less than 48 hours. Disgusting. Us true fans that refuse to acknowledge ANY more discussions of the persecution of the Pats in 07 are sickened by the fact that too many supposed Pats fans refuse to let it die. All here on this thread who continue to make the point of discussing the persecution of 07, when the topic is the breaking of the cap rules and encouraging of intentional player injuries by the Saints are either trolls or id!ots for falling into that troll trap again. The Saints were the offenders here, has nothing to do with the Pats, so why bring it up. Disgusting. Does Denvers cap abuse that lead to their last superbowl  come up every time some one breaks the rules? Or how about the admitted outrageous Steroid use that lead to the heyday of the Iron curtain in Pit come up when asterious's are discuses? Or the admitted proliferation of the use of Cocaine on Dallas's squad in their heyday. NO those topics have ALL been brushed under the carpet by the entire NFL community. BUT the "Pats Fans" (used sparingly) REFUSE to let their own F*** up fade into the past and continue to splash that Sh!t up against the wall every chance they can get. Disgusting. LET IT DIE! leave it up to the trolls to wallow in that mire with out even acknowledging it. Can't you discuss current news relating to the SAINTS without digging back 4 1/2 years to find a way to mix the PATS name into some one else's crimes. THIS IS A SAINTS ISSUE. Has nothing to do with the Pats.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]


    Nonsense. Of course people, Pats' fans especially, will make comparisons of the two situations because they are both rules violations by the management of the respective teams that are/were subject to league punishment. Just because you have some never talk about it hangup doesn't mean other people should share that dysfunction.
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : Nonsense. Of course people, Pats' fans especially, will make comparisons of the two situations because they are both rules violations by the management of the respective teams that are/were subject to league punishment. Just because you have some never talk about it hangup doesn't mean other people should share that dysfunction.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe, part-timer might have (for all I know) this "never-talk-about-it" hang-up as you said...  Many Pats Fans do, and their blood DOES immediately boil after and whenever that nerve gets struck.  But then again, part-timer just might have the same affliction that me & many other Pats Fans undoubtedly share instead:  

    Namely, the headache driven migraine which unstably flips back & forth between anger & depression...  Anger, because it just NEVER, Ever goes away for good.  And depression because it's a sad & perfectly fitting reminder that there's a Whooole 'lota stvp!d people around, who gulp down spoon fed liquid drivel because they're actually too lazy to the point where chewing solid food would require far too much self drive and detrmination...  So rather than bothering with such a lofty standard of personal effort or insight on their part, it's much easier to swallow the paste, while happily regurgitating the child food after your stomach gets too full...  

    And so, One might just pass it off by stating something to the effect of: "Just let stvp!d people believe what they want...YOU ain't gonna change 'em, ya know..."

    Indeed, chances are you never will...  YET, actually trully caring and fully believing in such an ideal where you don't care what people (even and especially, really dvmb ones), IS- much easier said than done...  The things we value...and like...and believe in, DO get sullied whenever someone (and many "someones", mind you)- end up expressing their dislike, distaste, and even hate about this thing you value deeply.  And unfortunately, It doesn't make enough of a difference in how their thoughts on whatever this matter happens to be, Are ill-informed...or are just plain wrong...or are even the perfect definition of id!ot!c, even...  I actually really wish it did.    
     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Great Article At Weei


     
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    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    [QUOTE]spygate was cheating as much as taunting in the endzone or bumping a ref is cheating. you broke a rule, you didnt cheat.
    Posted by couldntthinkofone[/QUOTE]

    You mean you can gain a competitive edge over an entire defense by taunting?
     

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