Spygate or Saints worse

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Every reasonable person would shorten that sentence to "cheating".


    Ah no they wouldn't.
    Are the acquisitions of scouting tapes illegal?  Nope, a place is provided to do just that.  (agreed?)  if not read-up
    Are stealing signals illegal?    Nope, not there either.  (agreed?) if not read-up
    Is taping on the sidelines illegal?  Godell says yes, an attorney would say no and other coaches have also interpreted it differently.
    BUT, for the sake of sanity, we'll use God's interpretation, since he is the boss.
    That still means that the only infraction is location, location, location.  BFD
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    I didn't read more than the title of this thread but I'm guessing it took less than 2 pages to turn into a redundant Spygate debate.  It is amazing how insecure some Pats fans are about Spygate.  As to which is worse, which I'm guessing is a topic long abandoned...... neither is worse, both are equally bad for very different reasons. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    Once again it seems like Pats Fans are being held captive by UD6.  Who really gives a shii---t what UD6 thinks.   This is ridiculous.

    However, I might be able to agree with arguing with UD6 because if you are a Pats Fan you were and are still subject to massive amounts of dung thrown by terminal idiots who screamed and are still screaming that Spy Gate was the worse thing that has ever happened in Professional Sports.   

    OTOH, I might be able to agree with UD6 if and only if the person doing the video taping had launched his Camera from a Rocket Launcher with intent to injure the opposing player.  Then the video Taping  might have risen to the same level of the Saints Coaching Staff being complicit paying players to deliberately injure the opposition.





     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    Every reasonable person would shorten that sentence to "cheating". Ah no they wouldn't. Are the acquisitions of scouting tapes illegal?  Nope, a place is provided to do just that.  (agreed?)  if not read-up Are stealing signals illegal?    Nope, not there either.  (agreed?) if not read-up Is taping on the sidelines illegal?  Godell says yes, an attorney would say no and other coaches have also interpreted it differently. BUT, for the sake of sanity, we'll use God's interpretation, since he is the boss. That still means that the only infraction is location, location, location.  BFD
    Posted by pezz4pats

    the acquisition of legal scouting tapes is legal.  the acquisition of illegal scouting tapes is not. 

    Do you know that other coaches interpretted differently?  I've never seen that.  Other coaches may have violated the same rule for the same reason knowing they were violating the rule. 

    Are there limits to the number of cameras a team may have? 
    Do you know the reason why the league doesn't want teams taping on the sidelines? 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : No, your spin of my words is weak.  I said the intent within the violation determines the penalty.  The NFL said, "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field".  Every reasonable person would shorten that sentence to "cheating".   If you don't want to, that's fine by me.  Please refrain from the Rusty finish.  It cheapens you.
    Posted by UD6


    Every reasonable person would not consider taping from the sidelines rather than some other location as cheating. They would consider it a technicality.

    You are a phoney that pretends to care about integrity. You don't. I'm not name calling. I'm telling you what you are. If you think you're not you're kidding yourself. Oh, and, you are no better than Rusty was.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    Do you know the reason why the league doesn't want teams taping on the sidelines? 
    Posted by UD6



    It's obvious as to why.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : the acquisition of legal scouting tapes is legal.  the acquisition of illegal scouting tapes is not.  Do you know that other coaches interpretted differently?  I've never seen that.  Other coaches may have violated the same rule for the same reason knowing they were violating the rule.  Are there limits to the number of cameras a team may have?  Do you know the reason why the league doesn't want teams taping on the sidelines? 
    Posted by UD6


    Ok, what's the difference between a legal and illegal acquisition of scouting tape?  Location, location, location.
    There are limits on the amount of cameras.  So?  What does it matter where they are?
    There are always cameras on the sidelines and in the endzone.  The coaches 22 tape is taken from the EZ.
    The interpretation of the rule is subjective due to being poorly worded and containing conflicting information.  In other word it contains loop-holes.
    If you think BB was the only one smart enough to find those loop-holes, well ok.
    Every one else who did it just broke the law.
    If they wanted to make things perfectly clear they only needed to word it like:
    "Taping of an opponent can only be done in an area designated by the team and approved by the league.  Removal of such tapes from the designated area are strictly prohibited during the course of the game."    TADAA..... NO Doubt, no questions and no rules broken without purpose or clear intent to do so.
    If you don't clarify specifically, you can't judge intent where interpretation is subjective.  It is possible and probable to make mistakes when things aren't specific and verbiage is odd.
    I have a degree in BA.  Business law was a huge part of the curriculum.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : Ok, what's the difference between a legal and illegal acquisition of scouting tape?  Location, location, location. There are limits on the amount of cameras.  So?  What does it matter where they are? There are always cameras on the sidelines and in the endzone.  The coaches 22 tape is taken from the EZ. The interpretation of the rule is subjective due to being poorly worded and containing conflicting information.  In other word it contains loop-holes. If you think BB was the only one smart enough to find those loop-holes, well ok. Every one else who did it just broke the law. If they wanted to make things perfectly clear they only needed to word it like: "Taping of an opponent can only be done in an area designated by the team and approved by the league.  Removal of such tapes from the designated area are strictly prohibited during the course of the game."    TADAA..... NO Doubt, no questions and no rules broken without purpose or clear intent to do so. If you don't clarify specifically, you can't judge intent where interpretation is subjective.  It is possible and probable to make mistakes when things aren't specific and verbiage is odd. I have a degree in BA.  Business law was a huge part of the curriculum.
    Posted by pezz4pats



    If Kraft had ever fought this his attorneys would have torn Goodell to shreds.

    But Kraft didn't because to do so would have harmed the whole league. Goodell wouldn't have dared to pull this BS on Al Davis.

    As the former head of a 500+ person union that constantly had to contend with the letter of a contract I can say that the bylaws, memo and gameday manual are a joke and riddled with provisions that could be endlessly litigated.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : If Kraft had ever fought this his attorneys would have torn Goodell to shreds. But Kraft didn't because to do so would have harmed the whole league. Goodell wouldn't have dared to pull this BS on Al Davis. As the former head of a 500+ person union that constantly had to contend with the letter of a contract I can say that the bylaws, memo and gameday manual are a joke and riddled with provisions that could be endlessly litigated.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    You are right, they would have shredded them and I believe that is the only reason they didn't make a big deal of it. They accepted responsibility and that was that.
    I wonder if Kraft had it to do over, he wouldn't think about calling Goodie's bluff and ask him if he really wanted to put the League through the litigation.
    Don't you think Goody would have backed off.
    That's probably why he leaked the tapes to his wife and then she to Fox. It went too far.  OOOOPPPPS, What ever happened to that investigation?  Didn't he vow to find the culprit?  Ya, just like I thought...
    Just more proof Goody is selective in who he punishes.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : You are right, they would have shredded them and I believe that is the only reason they didn't make a big deal of it. They accepted responsibility and that was that. I wonder if Kraft had it to do over, he wouldn't think about calling Goodie's bluff and ask him if he really wanted to put the League through the litigation. Don't you think Goody would have backed off. That's probably why he leaked the tapes to his wife and then she to Fox. It went too far.  OOOOPPPPS, What ever happened to that investigation?  Didn't he vow to find the culprit?  Ya, just like I thought... Just more proof Goody is selective in who he punishes.
    Posted by pezz4pats


    I've always felt Goodell blew it by being so vocal about how hard he was going to come down so fast. He painted himself into a corner. Notice the current investigation has been going on for a year before he makes his threats.

    Once he proclaimed he would hit hard if the taping was true he had to hit hard or the outcry would have been deafening. If he had waited and said nothing other than the league was investigating then he could have concluded the memo and bylaws were too ambiguous and resolved to change them. His big mouth made it too difficult to do that and he trumped it up to fit his proclamations of dire consequence. Then of course he stonewalled it completely as they formed damage control. It's preposterous that guys like Parcells and Johnson said it was common practice and Goodell investigated none of those allegations.

    I know people who went to college with Godell. They say virtually nobody there can believe this dork is commissioner. His daddy was a US senator, so you know how he was connected to get in the league office. He's connected to NY and PA (college near Pittsburgh). It took him 5 rounds of voting by the owners to get the commissioner's job.

    The most revolting part of all this is that it wouldn't have been an issue at all if the owners weren't so cheap that they wouldn't put defensive headsets in place.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxvsGiants. Show RedSoxvsGiants's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    Goodell is the bane of the NFL period.  He is booed at every stadium he is seen in.  How the owners keep him is beyond my reasoning. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    One last thing - unfortunately for pats fans there is commentary - even from former patriots - that what the patriots did was worse than the saints.  The reasons given is that there are all kinds of financial incentives given to players for game play.  I think many former players see this as a part of the game.

    Posted by UD6

    Are you freakin' serious?!!! So you'll say just about anything to make Spygate seem worse than Bountygate?!

    Tell you what, with absolutely no due respect, I'm certain that a vast majority of past and  present players and coaches (e.g.,Jimmy Johnson and your own Howard Mudd) think that stealing signals is a much more legitimate and accepted part of the game.   You say lots of things just to be provocative (guess that's a troll's job, especially one whose team is now completely irrelevant), but you're way the f over the line on this one.  You're on ignore(only done this twice, you and Rusty), but for an objective decision as to which is really worse,perhaps you shoul compare the punishments meted out by the league for these respective transgressions?  What a complete tool you are.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    I heard the Colts are dismantling their team.....So what does Underdogg have to look forward to now? Coming to a Patriots Message Board?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    I heard the Colts are dismantling their team..... So what does Underdogg have to look forward to now? Coming to a Patriots Message Board?
    Posted by Rocky


    "Look forward to".  He has almost 4000 (mostly idiotic) posts on this site.

    Try to imagine, losing your starting qb that you built your whole team around,
    not having anyone even close to replacing him, coming off 2-14 cop out season
    and having to believe in the Colts management to turning this around.

    You would be on a Pats board to!

    Starting to pity the dogg!!!!!!!!!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : "Look forward to".  He has almost 4000 (mostly idiotic) posts on this site. Try to imagine, losing your starting qb that you built your whole team around, not having anyone even close to replacing him, coming off 2-14 cop out season and having to believe in the Colts management to turning this around. You would be on a Pats board to! Starting to pity the dogg!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by MoreRings


    Mostly idiotic? Don't sugar coat it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse : Mostly idiotic? Don't sugar coat it.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    LOL!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    Saint Gate is a mega-scandal. Payton and Loomis deserve equal punishment  as Williams as they knew, approved of and tried to cover up the affair. My guess is that Goodell selects Williams as the skapegoat and his punishment is stiffer. Even if he gets only a 1 year ban, he will unlikely see the NFL again as the stench from this debacle will linger for years. No team will risk taking him on. Payton and Loomis will survive but get stiff punishment (1 year ban?) because Goodell perceives that the league and NO needs their leadership. Nevertheless, lawsuits will be directed at Williams, Payton, Loomis and the NO Saints organization for intent to injure on the part of players targeted. No matter what Goodell's decision on this matter and it will effect the NFL for years to come. It will be powerful and set the tone for policy on player safety.
    Posted by NYC

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse:
    In Response to Re: Spygate or Saints worse :
    Posted by NYC


    I think most of us were right that Bountygate was disgraceful and Goodell would come down very hard.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    UD6 are you here because you like to discuss the Pats or because your own team sucks and you are avoiding talking about them on your own team website?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Spygate or Saints worse

    The main difference between U6 and my dogs is that, eventually, my dogs will stop whining. Personally, I thoroughly enjoy the comedic value he brings to this board when trying to make, for him, a serious point.

    Like any child seeking attention, the more attention he gets back from his inane posts, the longer he'll flit around this board. Intellectually challenged people can't comprehend that they are getting no place fast in MOST conversations. Shame on us for engaging him in this manner, needlessly making him use up the precious meds he does have to take!!!

    Proof of my point is this: any half witted person can see that there is NO comparrision between filming from an improper location to having a 3 year bounty in place. (They MAY have a valid point if, after filming the coach, the photographer then walked over and knee capped him.) Somehow, I can't equate potentially ending someone's career, a fellow player, no less, and filming someone just doesn't seem to be an equal proposition. To show just how dumb the Saints staff was, they left a HUGE paper trail acknowledgng they did it well after the league told them to STOP. Then, they created a paper trail to show they tried to cover the activity up! God-dull is mad because they not only ignored the league directive to stop bounty activity, they lied to the offices telling him they had stopped, and then had a huge brass pair to create a paper trail that proves they tried to cover it up. Arrogance, hubris, and unmitigated stupidity all rolled up in one activty. Hollyweird can't make this stuff up! The team and coaches took this hit. Watch out for the players next! The funniest part is listening to Saints fans about how unfair this. Gee! I wonder how they woudl feel if, by chance and COMPLETELY by accident, of course, a blitzing LB just happened to hit Brees hard enough, just as he was throwing a pass, to: concuss him, open a 6 inch gash on his chin, loosen up some teeth, and cause a compound fracture of his throwing shoulder/collar bone. (You know, a typical James Harrison plaY.) Of course this is academic, as I know that they will, to a single voice, say it's just "part of the game", and that QB's have been taking hard hits like that for a long time. (Wanna buy some ocean front property in Phoenix??)

    Time for U6 to make some room in Mom's basement, to allow Payton, Williams, Loomis, et al, to move in with him. U6 can keep his special spot under the steps. Payton will take that cozy spot next to the coal bin. He can set up circus tents for those disenfranchised 'Aints fans that want to visit and cry in their Mardi Gras beverages forever.  

      
     
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