Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

     

    Think at this point restructuring llyod would be very inexpensive. May timews last season when Welker couldn't get separation and the TE's were coverd llyod was there, not spectacular but I though improving over the year..he would be better even this year.

    Now his clubhouse presence is the real issue with him, not sure he fit in well, had personality issues?

    Sanders I think would have been better in the PAts system than in Pitts, is replacable in the draft though.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Kind of torn on how I feel about Lloyd...I thought he was an average signing, average/slightly above average player...and I think both the signing and the player turned out to be more than we've come to expect from off season moves of late. Typical of us he was a low risk move, that turned into a one year rental that we have to replace (see - Carter, Waters, Anderson)...these are the best free agents we've signed over the last five years by far. I think this approach is getting old and it does little to improve the team moving forward - it puts a lot of pressure on your QB to win games too. 

     



    They're not base players, though. This is what makes you an incredible hypocrite. The Jets, Ravens, etc, with horrendous cap management swap out huge swaths of their roster and they you pretend Waters or Carter or now Lloyd somehow majorly affected our team, which is false.

     

    You would not even be referecing these names if some guy named Welker didn't drop easy bals or Brady played a bit better.

    Just give it up already. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You just said last month you wish BB did what the Jets did into the lockout, which was to buy the base of a roster on both sides of the ball.

    You just said that. You're a moron. 

    These small signings are meant to be slight infusion players, not major impact players. They're meant to help in small, impactful ways, but they aren't meant to be the reason why we win.  Tom Brady, Welker, our TEs, Logan Mankins, etc, all disappear in the big games. They either underperform or are inconsistent. These guys are the ones making the big bucks, yet they're WORSE in the postseason.

    Carter, Waters, Ellis, Lloyd, insert name here is not why our best players SUCKED with the chips on the table.

    You act like Brady's awful decisions, INTs or Welker's drops are good things. Those are our best players!    Christ!

    If Tim Thomas wins a Vezina or is a finalist in 2011 and then lays eggs in the postseason, that means Thomas didn't get it done. You're the moron who would run and try to blame Chris Kelly or Daniel Paille to try to mask the reality.

    LOL

    Christ! Make it stop! We have the most moronic pink helmet fans of any NFL pink helmets ever.

    This proves that Ocho wasn't as bad as many claimed.   There is this anonoying stigma that some WR has to come in here and rescue Brady from his horrendous flaws against the better Ds. We have LLloyd who has 74 receptions, almost 1000 yards and 4 TDs and all of a sudden this is why our offense dribbles out 13 points at home in a AFC title game in an offensive era.

    Cannot be made up.

     

     




    Truthfully the more you write, the more utterly clueless you prove yourself to be. You make it seem as if free agency is a small portion of team building, just like how you cast aside second round busts as little bumps in the road. And you have a massive double standard - any other organization that drafted a Patrick Chung, Rasi Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Butler, Brace...or signed/traded for Ocho Cinco, Fenne, Haynesworth, Gallery, Stallworth, Gaffney, Addai, Gregory, Fred Taylor, Shiancoe (and many more), you'd be laughing your AZ$ off. Instead you applauded all these moves while bashing the best player on the team.

    You clearly are delusional and don't watch football. At least be consistent when you go around bashing every other team in the NFL...at least know what you're talking about. When all these free agents (and the free agency period in general) fail, it hurts our chances of winning Super Bowls...it wastes years of the best QB the NFL has.

    I think it's ridiculous for you to criticize Brady the way you do - it shows just how little you know about football and it's laughable. You make it seem like it's easy to put up 30 points every week (should be expected)...you make it sound like throwing for over 4k yards and 30 touchdowns can be done by backups. How many interceptions does this guy throw a year? 10? Easy, right? Bawahaha! And how many times should this guy be sacked, but he side steps out of the way and completes passes to his third option? Yeah, everyone can do that, right? Yeah every quarterback can throw screens, outs, ins, slants, posts, comebacks and get pummeled week, after week without a single complaint...right? And we would make the playoffs every year without this guy and our defense, correct? Because that is what he has done - given us a chance every...single... year. Every one of them. Year after year this guy is in the top 3 at his position - no one has been able to say that - every other QB has had at least one bad season...not this guy. This guy hasn't even had two bad games in a row in his entire career - Bledsoe would go weeks without being able to hit a simple swing pass.

    I really think you're screwed up. Seriously. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    Lloyd was an okay signing given the price, but he didn't do a lot to shore up that position for the long term.  He was better than what the Pats had on the outside before they signed him, but he turned out to be a limited receiver and not worth a big payment this year. 

    I don't know how anyone can say Ocho turned out to be a good signing or blame Ocho's and Lloyd's mediocrity on Brady.  The fact is, BB has not invested heavily in WR in a few years and the lack of investment is showing.  This isn't a criticism of BB--he had plenty of other higher priorities he had to focus on--but we do have a WR position that is lagging in quality and depth.  I suspect BB does address it in the draft this year.  

    As far as bringing back Lloyd, I think that's fine if his attitude is good.  I worry, though, that if he really was a locker room problem, his attitude won't get any better if he's brought back for lower money than what  he would have had had the Pats not cut him.  That is a red flag to me--bringing back a guy who's maybe mad at the team for wriggling out of paying him a bonus and who's also known for being a locker room problem doesn't sound like a good way to improve chemistry on the team. At this point, I'd rather see a WR drafted with one of the first two picks, and a few other guys picked up for competition either in late rounds, undrafted rookie free agency, or from among veterans cut as camp and preseason rolls on. That's the path I hope Belichick takes . . . and that I suspect he will take.  

    Nevertheless, I've learned never to guess at what Belichick will do . . . 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Lloyd was an okay signing given the price, but he didn't do a lot to shore up that position for the long term.  He was better than what the Pats had on the outside before they signed him, but he turned out to be a limited receiver and not worth a big payment this year. 

    I don't know how anyone can say Ocho turned out to be a good signing or blame Ocho's and Lloyd's mediocrity on Brady.  The fact is, BB has not invested heavily in WR in a few years and the lack of investment is showing.  This isn't a criticism of BB--he had plenty of other higher priorities he had to focus on--but we do have a WR position that is lagging in quality and depth.  I suspect BB does address it in the draft this year.  

    As far as bringing back Lloyd, I think that's fine if his attitude is good.  I worry, though, that if he really was a locker room problem, his attitude won't get any better if he's brought back for lower money than what  he would have had had the Pats not cut him.  That is a red flag to me--bringing back a guy who's maybe mad at the team for wriggling out of paying him a bonus and who's also known for being a locker room problem doesn't sound like a good way to improve chemistry on the team. At this point, I'd rather see a WR drafted with one of the first two picks, and a few other guys picked up for competition either in late rounds, undrafted rookie free agency, or from among veterans cut as camp and preseason rolls on. That's the path I hope Belichick takes . . . and that I suspect he will take.  

    Nevertheless, I've learned never to guess at what Belichick will do . . . 



    take a look at last years #1 pick WR's and tell me which ones made a difference? Taking a WR is always an iffy proposition. I simply dont see the Pats using the #1 on a WR. Maybe the 3rd.

    I think we are looking at;

    Amendola, Edelman, Jones, Stallworth, Branch, Ebert, SLater, rookie draft choice that is most likely a redhirt with potential. Combine this with Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Vareen...with Brady as the QB I think this group is good enough.

    The issue is health. Lets face it, an older guy is prone to more injury and slower recovery..meaning Stallworth and Branch. Amendola and Edelman have had fluke injuries, but do not play complete seasons. Neither do Gronk and Hern. Ballard is coming off ACL and 18 months of inactivity. He was already a step slow, what if he is 2 steps slow? Jones has an illness, that is unknown at this time what his availability will be.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Kind of torn on how I feel about Lloyd...I thought he was an average signing, average/slightly above average player...and I think both the signing and the player turned out to be more than we've come to expect from off season moves of late. Typical of us he was a low risk move, that turned into a one year rental that we have to replace (see - Carter, Waters, Anderson)...these are the best free agents we've signed over the last five years by far. I think this approach is getting old and it does little to improve the team moving forward - it puts a lot of pressure on your QB to win games too. 

     



    They're not base players, though. This is what makes you an incredible hypocrite. The Jets, Ravens, etc, with horrendous cap management swap out huge swaths of their roster and they you pretend Waters or Carter or now Lloyd somehow majorly affected our team, which is false.

     

    You would not even be referecing these names if some guy named Welker didn't drop easy bals or Brady played a bit better.

    Just give it up already. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You just said last month you wish BB did what the Jets did into the lockout, which was to buy the base of a roster on both sides of the ball.

    You just said that. You're a moron. 

    These small signings are meant to be slight infusion players, not major impact players. They're meant to help in small, impactful ways, but they aren't meant to be the reason why we win.  Tom Brady, Welker, our TEs, Logan Mankins, etc, all disappear in the big games. They either underperform or are inconsistent. These guys are the ones making the big bucks, yet they're WORSE in the postseason.

    Carter, Waters, Ellis, Lloyd, insert name here is not why our best players SUCKED with the chips on the table.

    You act like Brady's awful decisions, INTs or Welker's drops are good things. Those are our best players!    Christ!

    If Tim Thomas wins a Vezina or is a finalist in 2011 and then lays eggs in the postseason, that means Thomas didn't get it done. You're the moron who would run and try to blame Chris Kelly or Daniel Paille to try to mask the reality.

    LOL

    Christ! Make it stop! We have the most moronic pink helmet fans of any NFL pink helmets ever.

    This proves that Ocho wasn't as bad as many claimed.   There is this anonoying stigma that some WR has to come in here and rescue Brady from his horrendous flaws against the better Ds. We have LLloyd who has 74 receptions, almost 1000 yards and 4 TDs and all of a sudden this is why our offense dribbles out 13 points at home in a AFC title game in an offensive era.

    Cannot be made up.

     

     

     




    Truthfully the more you write, the more utterly clueless you prove yourself to be. You make it seem as if free agency is a small portion of team building, just like how you cast aside second round busts as little bumps in the road. And you have a massive double standard - any other organization that drafted a Patrick Chung, Rasi Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Butler, Brace...or signed/traded for Ocho Cinco, Fenne, Haynesworth, Gallery, Stallworth, Gaffney, Addai, Gregory, Fred Taylor, Shiancoe (and many more), you'd be laughing your AZ$ off. Instead you applauded all these moves while bashing the best player on the team.

     

    You clearly are delusional and don't watch football. At least be consistent when you go around bashing every other team in the NFL...at least know what you're talking about. When all these free agents (and the free agency period in general) fail, it hurts our chances of winning Super Bowls...it wastes years of the best QB the NFL has.

    I think it's ridiculous for you to criticize Brady the way you do - it shows just how little you know about football and it's laughable. You make it seem like it's easy to put up 30 points every week (should be expected)...you make it sound like throwing for over 4k yards and 30 touchdowns can be done by backups. How many interceptions does this guy throw a year? 10? Easy, right? Bawahaha! And how many times should this guy be sacked, but he side steps out of the way and completes passes to his third option? Yeah, everyone can do that, right? Yeah every quarterback can throw screens, outs, ins, slants, posts, comebacks and get pummeled week, after week without a single complaint...right? And we would make the playoffs every year without this guy and our defense, correct? Because that is what he has done - given us a chance every...single... year. Every one of them. Year after year this guy is in the top 3 at his position - no one has been able to say that - every other QB has had at least one bad season...not this guy. This guy hasn't even had two bad games in a row in his entire career - Bledsoe would go weeks without being able to hit a simple swing pass.

    I really think you're screwed up. Seriously. 

     




    10 INTs a year with what BB has around him isn't that great.   He's Tom Brady!

     

    What on earth?

    I don't care what his stats are in the regular season. This is your exact problem. I skimmed your above lame retort.

    He hasn't had 2 bad games in a row in his career? What about 2011 Pitt, Giants and Cowboys? That's 3!

    What about the AFC title game and the SB in 2011?

    That's 2 more.

    You are an absolute moron.  He's sucked in AFC title games since 2005!  Sucked! 8 TDs, 9 INTs. That's horrendous! And that includes Moss and Welker or others who were just fine all year.

    How is this good? How are those numbers even average?  And that's me giving him a pass in the 2009 playoffs, or even 2006, realizing he wasn't well supported.

    This is it, dumbo.  It's 2-3 years and it's up to him.   If he continues to play subar in the postseason, he will leave this thing completely annoyed he blew it in SB 42, and worse, the just Cutleresque mindnumblingly dumb QB play in SB 46.

     




    Wrong. See your faulty opinion on matters football related (and I'm sure much more) don't allow you to say he played poorly in this game...or that game. Take the Super Bowl for instance - if we win that game (if the defense did anything at all) Brady wins the MVP trophy...hands down...no one even close. The guy lead the team on the longest scoring drive in NFL history. He was 7 for 7 on another. He had terrible field position that entire game and yet moved the offense against a very good pass rush, while having Gronk limp around on one leg. You always go back to the safety...always. It was one play - our defense allowed a long drive to start the game and gave us the luxury of being pinned at the one. Great position to be in during the first drive of the Super Bowl, right numb nuts?

    Listen, don't blame Brady...blame your mom for a lack of milk at birth.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    Sanders was in at least two ways a BB kind of signing.  First, Sanders had great explosion in the Wes Welker, Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman mold (there are others!).  Second, it would have swiped a player from a potential playoff rival.  I don't consider Baltimore to be a playoff rival in 2013, and so either Pitt or Cincy has to get promoted by default.

    On the other hand, Sanders wasn't worth more than $2.5m plus a third rounder.  The guy was kind of low Wonderlic and that's important in New England. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     . . . "rookie draft choice that is most likely a redhirt with potential". . .



    You've nailed it, halfway between redshirt and hurt.  Amazing how rooks get hurt.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormymonday. Show stormymonday's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    Sanders is no big loss. Lloyd was always covered like a glove. Both non-factors in the big picture.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormymonday. Show stormymonday's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    .

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Lloyd was an okay signing given the price, but he didn't do a lot to shore up that position for the long term.  He was better than what the Pats had on the outside before they signed him, but he turned out to be a limited receiver and not worth a big payment this year. 

    I don't know how anyone can say Ocho turned out to be a good signing or blame Ocho's and Lloyd's mediocrity on Brady.  The fact is, BB has not invested heavily in WR in a few years and the lack of investment is showing.  This isn't a criticism of BB--he had plenty of other higher priorities he had to focus on--but we do have a WR position that is lagging in quality and depth.  I suspect BB does address it in the draft this year.  

    As far as bringing back Lloyd, I think that's fine if his attitude is good.  I worry, though, that if he really was a locker room problem, his attitude won't get any better if he's brought back for lower money than what  he would have had had the Pats not cut him.  That is a red flag to me--bringing back a guy who's maybe mad at the team for wriggling out of paying him a bonus and who's also known for being a locker room problem doesn't sound like a good way to improve chemistry on the team. At this point, I'd rather see a WR drafted with one of the first two picks, and a few other guys picked up for competition either in late rounds, undrafted rookie free agency, or from among veterans cut as camp and preseason rolls on. That's the path I hope Belichick takes . . . and that I suspect he will take.  

    Nevertheless, I've learned never to guess at what Belichick will do . . . 

     



    take a look at last years #1 pick WR's and tell me which ones made a difference? Taking a WR is always an iffy proposition. I simply dont see the Pats using the #1 on a WR. Maybe the 3rd.

     

    I think we are looking at;

    Amendola, Edelman, Jones, Stallworth, Branch, Ebert, SLater, rookie draft choice that is most likely a redhirt with potential. Combine this with Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Vareen...with Brady as the QB I think this group is good enough.

    The issue is health. Lets face it, an older guy is prone to more injury and slower recovery..meaning Stallworth and Branch. Amendola and Edelman have had fluke injuries, but do not play complete seasons. Neither do Gronk and Hern. Ballard is coming off ACL and 18 months of inactivity. He was already a step slow, what if he is 2 steps slow? Jones has an illness, that is unknown at this time what his availability will be.



    There's a bit of a myth that first round receivers are always a bust.  It sometimes takes them a while to learn the offense so they often don't contribute as fast as some players at other positions,  but many work out fine.  Most of the top guys from 2012 ended up with around 40 to 60 receptions in their rookie year.  If you look back two or three years, you've got guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, etc.  All of those guys would look good in a Pats uniform now.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormymonday. Show stormymonday's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    I

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Lloyd was an okay signing given the price, but he didn't do a lot to shore up that position for the long term.  He was better than what the Pats had on the outside before they signed him, but he turned out to be a limited receiver and not worth a big payment this year. 

    I don't know how anyone can say Ocho turned out to be a good signing or blame Ocho's and Lloyd's mediocrity on Brady.  The fact is, BB has not invested heavily in WR in a few years and the lack of investment is showing.  This isn't a criticism of BB--he had plenty of other higher priorities he had to focus on--but we do have a WR position that is lagging in quality and depth.  I suspect BB does address it in the draft this year.  

    As far as bringing back Lloyd, I think that's fine if his attitude is good.  I worry, though, that if he really was a locker room problem, his attitude won't get any better if he's brought back for lower money than what  he would have had had the Pats not cut him.  That is a red flag to me--bringing back a guy who's maybe mad at the team for wriggling out of paying him a bonus and who's also known for being a locker room problem doesn't sound like a good way to improve chemistry on the team. At this point, I'd rather see a WR drafted with one of the first two picks, and a few other guys picked up for competition either in late rounds, undrafted rookie free agency, or from among veterans cut as camp and preseason rolls on. That's the path I hope Belichick takes . . . and that I suspect he will take.  

    Nevertheless, I've learned never to guess at what Belichick will do . . . 

     



    take a look at last years #1 pick WR's and tell me which ones made a difference? Taking a WR is always an iffy proposition. I simply dont see the Pats using the #1 on a WR. Maybe the 3rd.

     

    I think we are looking at;

    Amendola, Edelman, Jones, Stallworth, Branch, Ebert, SLater, rookie draft choice that is most likely a redhirt with potential. Combine this with Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Vareen...with Brady as the QB I think this group is good enough.

    The issue is health. Lets face it, an older guy is prone to more injury and slower recovery..meaning Stallworth and Branch. Amendola and Edelman have had fluke injuries, but do not play complete seasons. Neither do Gronk and Hern. Ballard is coming off ACL and 18 months of inactivity. He was already a step slow, what if he is 2 steps slow? Jones has an illness, that is unknown at this time what his availability will be.

     



    There's a bit of a myth that first round receivers are always a bust.  It sometimes takes them a while to learn the offense so they often don't contribute as fast as some players at other positions,  but many work out fine.  Most of the top guys from 2012 ended up with around 40 to 60 receptions in their rookie year.  If you look back two or three years, you've got guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, etc.  All of those guys would look good in a Pats uniform now.

     

     



    I am not saying "bust". I am saying that in this offense, it will most likely ne a redhsirt year for a rookie WR with potential. It is fairly well scouted by most that the WR's class this year is deep, but in no way as good as past years with potential stars. If there were, players like Green, Harvin, Jones, Crabtree arent lasting to #29. That is why I feel 3rd rd WR is in the cards.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    I guess I just don't know what people expect out of WR in the patriots system where 80+% of the first read options are slot/TE/back. We would all love a 2007 vintage Moss (as would every team in the league) but that was a record setting year. 2008 and 2009 were definitely not the same.

    Interesting that Lloyd was around for 10 months before the first whisper of 'locker room' issues appeared at a time when the team was trying to cut his pay - covenient timing. Where were all the reporters during the season? Pats run a tight ship, but really?! BB does not shy away from cutting players that are causing issues, and he certainly doesn't have to keep them active on game days.

    And statistically he has only had one year that was any better than 2012 - 2010 when he led the league in yardage. Not sure what people expected but if the Pats expected much more they didn't do their research.

    As for cost - I am pretty sure he would rank near the top for receivers in $/reception and $/yd for anybody not playing on a rookie deal.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Lloyd was an okay signing given the price, but he didn't do a lot to shore up that position for the long term.  He was better than what the Pats had on the outside before they signed him, but he turned out to be a limited receiver and not worth a big payment this year. 

    I don't know how anyone can say Ocho turned out to be a good signing or blame Ocho's and Lloyd's mediocrity on Brady.  The fact is, BB has not invested heavily in WR in a few years and the lack of investment is showing.  This isn't a criticism of BB--he had plenty of other higher priorities he had to focus on--but we do have a WR position that is lagging in quality and depth.  I suspect BB does address it in the draft this year.  

    As far as bringing back Lloyd, I think that's fine if his attitude is good.  I worry, though, that if he really was a locker room problem, his attitude won't get any better if he's brought back for lower money than what  he would have had had the Pats not cut him.  That is a red flag to me--bringing back a guy who's maybe mad at the team for wriggling out of paying him a bonus and who's also known for being a locker room problem doesn't sound like a good way to improve chemistry on the team. At this point, I'd rather see a WR drafted with one of the first two picks, and a few other guys picked up for competition either in late rounds, undrafted rookie free agency, or from among veterans cut as camp and preseason rolls on. That's the path I hope Belichick takes . . . and that I suspect he will take.  

    Nevertheless, I've learned never to guess at what Belichick will do . . . 

     



    take a look at last years #1 pick WR's and tell me which ones made a difference? Taking a WR is always an iffy proposition. I simply dont see the Pats using the #1 on a WR. Maybe the 3rd.

     

    I think we are looking at;

    Amendola, Edelman, Jones, Stallworth, Branch, Ebert, SLater, rookie draft choice that is most likely a redhirt with potential. Combine this with Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Vareen...with Brady as the QB I think this group is good enough.

    The issue is health. Lets face it, an older guy is prone to more injury and slower recovery..meaning Stallworth and Branch. Amendola and Edelman have had fluke injuries, but do not play complete seasons. Neither do Gronk and Hern. Ballard is coming off ACL and 18 months of inactivity. He was already a step slow, what if he is 2 steps slow? Jones has an illness, that is unknown at this time what his availability will be.

     



    There's a bit of a myth that first round receivers are always a bust.  It sometimes takes them a while to learn the offense so they often don't contribute as fast as some players at other positions,  but many work out fine.  Most of the top guys from 2012 ended up with around 40 to 60 receptions in their rookie year.  If you look back two or three years, you've got guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, etc.  All of those guys would look good in a Pats uniform now.

     

     

     



    I am not saying "bust". I am saying that in this offense, it will most likely ne a redhsirt year for a rookie WR with potential. It is fairly well scouted by most that the WR's class this year is deep, but in no way as good as past years with potential stars. If there were, players like Green, Harvin, Jones, Crabtree arent lasting to #29. That is why I feel 3rd rd WR is in the cards.

     

    We'll see. At this point, though, I think it's a pretty big need especially with the uncertainty around the TEs. That's why I won't be surprised if Belichick is aggressive and even trades up like he did last year.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to mia76's comment:

    I guess I just don't know what people expect out of WR in the patriots system where 80+% of the first read options are slot/TE/back. We would all love a 2007 vintage Moss (as would every team in the league) but that was a record setting year. 2008 and 2009 were definitely not the same.

    Interesting that Lloyd was around for 10 months before the first whisper of 'locker room' issues appeared at a time when the team was trying to cut his pay - covenient timing. Where were all the reporters during the season? Pats run a tight ship, but really?! BB does not shy away from cutting players that are causing issues, and he certainly doesn't have to keep them active on game days.

    And statistically he has only had one year that was any better than 2012 - 2010 when he led the league in yardage. Not sure what people expected but if the Pats expected much more they didn't do their research.

    As for cost - I am pretty sure he would rank near the top for receivers in $/reception and $/yd for anybody not playing on a rookie deal.



    1) when has information ever come out of the organization that the media has been able to sniff out?

    2) even if BB wanted to cut bait with Lloyd, did he have the personel to have that choice? Gronk out, Hern battling injury, Edelman out, Wes beat up, Branch on and off the team. Stallworth out.

    3) why arent any other teams in on Lloyd? Why has he been shown the door on 5 other teams plus the Pats?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    .

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Kind of torn on how I feel about Lloyd...I thought he was an average signing, average/slightly above average player...and I think both the signing and the player turned out to be more than we've come to expect from off season moves of late. Typical of us he was a low risk move, that turned into a one year rental that we have to replace (see - Carter, Waters, Anderson)...these are the best free agents we've signed over the last five years by far. I think this approach is getting old and it does little to improve the team moving forward - it puts a lot of pressure on your QB to win games too. 

     



    They're not base players, though. This is what makes you an incredible hypocrite. The Jets, Ravens, etc, with horrendous cap management swap out huge swaths of their roster and they you pretend Waters or Carter or now Lloyd somehow majorly affected our team, which is false.

     

    You would not even be referecing these names if some guy named Welker didn't drop easy bals or Brady played a bit better.

    Just give it up already. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You just said last month you wish BB did what the Jets did into the lockout, which was to buy the base of a roster on both sides of the ball.

    You just said that. You're a moron. 

    These small signings are meant to be slight infusion players, not major impact players. They're meant to help in small, impactful ways, but they aren't meant to be the reason why we win.  Tom Brady, Welker, our TEs, Logan Mankins, etc, all disappear in the big games. They either underperform or are inconsistent. These guys are the ones making the big bucks, yet they're WORSE in the postseason.

    Carter, Waters, Ellis, Lloyd, insert name here is not why our best players SUCKED with the chips on the table.

    You act like Brady's awful decisions, INTs or Welker's drops are good things. Those are our best players!    Christ!

    If Tim Thomas wins a Vezina or is a finalist in 2011 and then lays eggs in the postseason, that means Thomas didn't get it done. You're the moron who would run and try to blame Chris Kelly or Daniel Paille to try to mask the reality.

    LOL

    Christ! Make it stop! We have the most moronic pink helmet fans of any NFL pink helmets ever.

    This proves that Ocho wasn't as bad as many claimed.   There is this anonoying stigma that some WR has to come in here and rescue Brady from his horrendous flaws against the better Ds. We have LLloyd who has 74 receptions, almost 1000 yards and 4 TDs and all of a sudden this is why our offense dribbles out 13 points at home in a AFC title game in an offensive era.

    Cannot be made up.

     

     

     




    Truthfully the more you write, the more utterly clueless you prove yourself to be. You make it seem as if free agency is a small portion of team building, just like how you cast aside second round busts as little bumps in the road. And you have a massive double standard - any other organization that drafted a Patrick Chung, Rasi Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Butler, Brace...or signed/traded for Ocho Cinco, Fenne, Haynesworth, Gallery, Stallworth, Gaffney, Addai, Gregory, Fred Taylor, Shiancoe (and many more), you'd be laughing your AZ$ off. Instead you applauded all these moves while bashing the best player on the team.

     

    You clearly are delusional and don't watch football. At least be consistent when you go around bashing every other team in the NFL...at least know what you're talking about. When all these free agents (and the free agency period in general) fail, it hurts our chances of winning Super Bowls...it wastes years of the best QB the NFL has.

    I think it's ridiculous for you to criticize Brady the way you do - it shows just how little you know about football and it's laughable. You make it seem like it's easy to put up 30 points every week (should be expected)...you make it sound like throwing for over 4k yards and 30 touchdowns can be done by backups. How many interceptions does this guy throw a year? 10? Easy, right? Bawahaha! And how many times should this guy be sacked, but he side steps out of the way and completes passes to his third option? Yeah, everyone can do that, right? Yeah every quarterback can throw screens, outs, ins, slants, posts, comebacks and get pummeled week, after week without a single complaint...right? And we would make the playoffs every year without this guy and our defense, correct? Because that is what he has done - given us a chance every...single... year. Every one of them. Year after year this guy is in the top 3 at his position - no one has been able to say that - every other QB has had at least one bad season...not this guy. This guy hasn't even had two bad games in a row in his entire career - Bledsoe would go weeks without being able to hit a simple swing pass.

    I really think you're screwed up. Seriously. 



    It's amazing, the comment's he makes are just amazing.  Welker and Brady have been the Patriots best players on offense for several years, heck they have been at or vey near the top of the list of best players in the league for several years,  yet he expected them to have perfect games every single game.  Wake up!  Even the best players don't have perfect games all the time.  It's rare to play a perfect game.  If you have to have your best players, who are among the best players in the league, have perfect games to win then there is something seriously wrong with the other players/erea's on the team. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    I'm torn with how bad the patriots really wanted Sanders in the first place.  On one hand they were willing to give up a 3rd round draft choice and some cash.  On the other hand, if they wanted him bad enough they probably should have offered just a little more cash.

    Per Peter King...

    I think someone's going to have to tell me, if the Patriots really wanted Emmanuel Sanders in restricted free agency, why they signed him to a one-year, $2.5 million contract. That's like saying, "Well, we sort of want him, but we're really not sure, and we'll give him a D-minus deal, and maybe Pittsburgh will just take the third-round pick in return." I don't get the gesture. At all.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    The wide receiver position is overrated in my opinion. After all, we won super bowls with Troy Brown, David Patten, Deion Branch and David Givens. The ones we have just need to catch the ball.



    +1

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    I'm torn with how bad the patriots really wanted Sanders in the first place.  On one hand they were willing to give up a 3rd round draft choice and some cash.  On the other hand, if they wanted him bad enough they probably should have offered just a little more cash.

    Per Peter King...

    I think someone's going to have to tell me, if the Patriots really wanted Emmanuel Sanders in restricted free agency, why they signed him to a one-year, $2.5 million contract. That's like saying, "Well, we sort of want him, but we're really not sure, and we'll give him a D-minus deal, and maybe Pittsburgh will just take the third-round pick in return." I don't get the gesture. At all.

     



    Not sure how much money King (or you) think you pay a WR with the following average stats over a 3 yr career -

    13 games played/year - 2012 16 games

    31 receptions/year - 2012 44 receptions

    430 yds per/year - 2012 626 yds

    1.6 TDs/year - 2012 - 1 TD

    .7 fumbles/yr - 2012 2 fumbles (or a fumble every 15 touches!)

    As for it being one year ... Sanders wasn't signing a cheap multi-year contract - he is hoping next year is his 'break-out' and he gets a much better UFA deal. (Sort of like a lot of CBs who signed 1 yr deal this year.) And BB wasn't investing big money and a draft pick in an unproven commodity.

     

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Steelers did the Patriots a favor.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Kind of torn on how I feel about Lloyd...I thought he was an average signing, average/slightly above average player...and I think both the signing and the player turned out to be more than we've come to expect from off season moves of late. Typical of us he was a low risk move, that turned into a one year rental that we have to replace (see - Carter, Waters, Anderson)...these are the best free agents we've signed over the last five years by far. I think this approach is getting old and it does little to improve the team moving forward - it puts a lot of pressure on your QB to win games too. 

     



    They're not base players, though. This is what makes you an incredible hypocrite. The Jets, Ravens, etc, with horrendous cap management swap out huge swaths of their roster and they you pretend Waters or Carter or now Lloyd somehow majorly affected our team, which is false.

     

    You would not even be referecing these names if some guy named Welker didn't drop easy bals or Brady played a bit better.

    Just give it up already. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You just said last month you wish BB did what the Jets did into the lockout, which was to buy the base of a roster on both sides of the ball.

    You just said that. You're a moron. 

    These small signings are meant to be slight infusion players, not major impact players. They're meant to help in small, impactful ways, but they aren't meant to be the reason why we win.  Tom Brady, Welker, our TEs, Logan Mankins, etc, all disappear in the big games. They either underperform or are inconsistent. These guys are the ones making the big bucks, yet they're WORSE in the postseason.

    Carter, Waters, Ellis, Lloyd, insert name here is not why our best players SUCKED with the chips on the table.

    You act like Brady's awful decisions, INTs or Welker's drops are good things. Those are our best players!    Christ!

    If Tim Thomas wins a Vezina or is a finalist in 2011 and then lays eggs in the postseason, that means Thomas didn't get it done. You're the moron who would run and try to blame Chris Kelly or Daniel Paille to try to mask the reality.

    LOL

    Christ! Make it stop! We have the most moronic pink helmet fans of any NFL pink helmets ever.

    This proves that Ocho wasn't as bad as many claimed.   There is this anonoying stigma that some WR has to come in here and rescue Brady from his horrendous flaws against the better Ds. We have LLloyd who has 74 receptions, almost 1000 yards and 4 TDs and all of a sudden this is why our offense dribbles out 13 points at home in a AFC title game in an offensive era.

    Cannot be made up.

     

     

     




    Truthfully the more you write, the more utterly clueless you prove yourself to be. You make it seem as if free agency is a small portion of team building, just like how you cast aside second round busts as little bumps in the road. And you have a massive double standard - any other organization that drafted a Patrick Chung, Rasi Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Butler, Brace...or signed/traded for Ocho Cinco, Fenne, Haynesworth, Gallery, Stallworth, Gaffney, Addai, Gregory, Fred Taylor, Shiancoe (and many more), you'd be laughing your AZ$ off. Instead you applauded all these moves while bashing the best player on the team.

     

    You clearly are delusional and don't watch football. At least be consistent when you go around bashing every other team in the NFL...at least know what you're talking about. When all these free agents (and the free agency period in general) fail, it hurts our chances of winning Super Bowls...it wastes years of the best QB the NFL has.

    I think it's ridiculous for you to criticize Brady the way you do - it shows just how little you know about football and it's laughable. You make it seem like it's easy to put up 30 points every week (should be expected)...you make it sound like throwing for over 4k yards and 30 touchdowns can be done by backups. How many interceptions does this guy throw a year? 10? Easy, right? Bawahaha! And how many times should this guy be sacked, but he side steps out of the way and completes passes to his third option? Yeah, everyone can do that, right? Yeah every quarterback can throw screens, outs, ins, slants, posts, comebacks and get pummeled week, after week without a single complaint...right? And we would make the playoffs every year without this guy and our defense, correct? Because that is what he has done - given us a chance every...single... year. Every one of them. Year after year this guy is in the top 3 at his position - no one has been able to say that - every other QB has had at least one bad season...not this guy. This guy hasn't even had two bad games in a row in his entire career - Bledsoe would go weeks without being able to hit a simple swing pass.

    I really think you're screwed up. Seriously. 

     



    It's amazing, the comment's he makes are just amazing.  Welker and Brady have been the Patriots best players on offense for several years, heck they have been at or vey near the top of the list of best players in the league for several years,  yet he expected them to have perfect games every single game.  Wake up!  Even the best players don't have perfect games all the time.  It's rare to play a perfect game.  If you have to have your best players, who are among the best players in the league, have perfect games to win then there is something seriously wrong with the other players/erea's on the team. 

     




    I seriously think the guy just doesn't understand football...it's as simple as that. Well he does have other issues too, but it would take years of therapy to get to the bottom of that.  

     
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