Still sick about the 2nd round pick

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bradysgirlforreal. Show Bradysgirlforreal's posts

    Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    I feel really good about the defensive upgrades this year but BB picking JG in the second round still makes me sick! I really felt the Pats needed to sign a WR for Brady-when I look at who PM is throwing to and whom TB is throwing too it makes me mad! If Gronk and Edelmen go down TB is AGAIN screwed-come on Bill give TB someone to throw to!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SportsGenius1. Show SportsGenius1's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    Don't be sick about any moves BB makes as he knows his team better than we will ever know the status of each player. Jimmy Garoppolo was a good get for the Patriots his release is equal to Aaron Rodgers release time wise. Is he a starter this year? No and I understand your desire for having a guy come in a contribute right away. As far as WR's go  I truly believe Boyce, Tompkins and Dobson will all improve from last years contributions, and the addition of LaFell allows for protection against any lingering injury Dobson may have. As for others who may take some of the pressures off Brady standing in the pocket to long just look to a healthy Vereen and his newest competitor White to help as safety valves coming out of the backfield.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick


    How many rings does Peyton have, with all those extra weapons through the years?

    How many does Brady have?

    Did you watch the Super Bowl last year?

    How'd it turn out when the Pats had the "best offense ever" to date in 2007? How'd the "Best offense ever" Broncos do last year? How'd the "greatest show on turf" do in 2001? How'd the "greatest offense ever" 1998 Vikings do?

    In 2013, the Pats scored 444 points...good enough for 3rd in the entire NFL.

    What they lacked was situational defense and offense. 3rd downs. Red zones.

    Sure, taking a QB when you have Tom Brady seems outrageous...but that's what you do to build a solid franchise. People thought the Pats were crazy to waste a roster spot on Brady as a 4th QB in 2000 as well. 

    One thing they DO NOT NEED, contrary to popular belief, is more weapons. They have enough, 2007 isn't ever coming back, and I don't want it.

    2003/04, however, looks like it may be making a much anticipated come back!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:


    How many rings does Peyton have, with all those extra weapons through the years?

    How many does Brady have?

    Did you watch the Super Bowl last year?

    How'd it turn out when the Pats had the "best offense ever" to date in 2007? How'd the "Best offense ever" Broncos do last year? How'd the "greatest show on turf" do in 2001? How'd the "greatest offense ever" 1998 Vikings do?

    In 2013, the Pats scored 444 points...good enough for 3rd in the entire NFL.

    What they lacked was situational defense and offense. 3rd downs. Red zones.

    Sure, taking a QB when you have Tom Brady seems outrageous...but that's what you do to build a solid franchise. People thought the Pats were crazy to waste a roster spot on Brady as a 4th QB in 2000 as well. 

    One thing they DO NOT NEED, contrary to popular belief, is more weapons. They have enough, 2007 isn't ever coming back, and I don't want it.

    2003/04, however, looks like it may be making a much anticipated come back!




    Well said, sir.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

     


    You'll be attacked for saying that.  But I agree it would be nice for Brady to have better targets.  The things I'll say to make you feel better are this:



    • Dobson does have potential to be a good outside receiver and there are a few other guys in camp who, while long shots, might show up well.  Thompkins, Boyce, even guys like the kid from Maine could end up being good depth.  Remember, we really only need one good downfield receiver if he stays healthy, though of course two would be nice.

    • I'm optimistic that LaFell is going to give us a decent big target.  He's more a slant kind of guy than a downfield burner, but I think he might add something valuable to the offense

    • Gronk seems healthy--and all we need is one TE if we can find three receivers to start

    • And don't forget the backs . . . look for a receiving back (or maybe two) to have a bigger part in the offense

    • Finally, better defense is probably what we need most--particularly better pass defense--and I think we've got that


    Those who dismiss the need for WRs are wrong in my opinion--but there are lot of other good things that might offset the apparent thinness at WR.  


    Oh, and for the record, I really like the Garoppolo pick.  I think we needed a back-up QB to replace Mallet and I prefer giving him a year to learn before he's the primary back up next year. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:


    How many rings does Peyton have, with all those extra weapons through the years?

    How many does Brady have?

    Did you watch the Super Bowl last year?

    How'd it turn out when the Pats had the "best offense ever" to date in 2007? How'd the "Best offense ever" Broncos do last year? How'd the "greatest show on turf" do in 2001? How'd the "greatest offense ever" 1998 Vikings do?

    In 2013, the Pats scored 444 points...good enough for 3rd in the entire NFL.

    What they lacked was situational defense and offense. 3rd downs. Red zones.

    Sure, taking a QB when you have Tom Brady seems outrageous...but that's what you do to build a solid franchise. People thought the Pats were crazy to waste a roster spot on Brady as a 4th QB in 2000 as well. 

    One thing they DO NOT NEED, contrary to popular belief, is more weapons. They have enough, 2007 isn't ever coming back, and I don't want it.

    2003/04, however, looks like it may be making a much anticipated come back!



    Excellent post!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    The most over rated position in the NFL is wide receiver. This isn't the CFL.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick


    Prolate - 

    Fair points.

    I REALLY like Lafell. I think his style of receiving fits the Pats/Brady's style perfectly.

    As for RB receiving options...they quietly have one of the best in the NFL - Shane Vereen. Few people realize he was on pace for 90+ catches...perhaps not "on pace", but that's what his stats extrapolate out to over 16. Yes, that's the question with him...but if he can avoid more broken bones, I see him as an easy 70+ catch guy if playing 16 games. And honestly, I think that's low. He's a very talented receiver (don't blame the drops on him, he was wearing a gauntlet for most of the season) who can even be split wide, as he was in the 2012 playoffs. 

    I really, really, like the group of WRs: Edelman, Amendola, Lafell, Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce. Having Gronk further enhances that group. Having Gronk + Vereen adds more. Having Gronk +Vereen +Ridley (if he's not fumbling) makes for an exceptional offense.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:


    How many rings does Peyton have, with all those extra weapons through the years?

    How many does Brady have?

    Did you watch the Super Bowl last year?

    How'd it turn out when the Pats had the "best offense ever" to date in 2007? How'd the "Best offense ever" Broncos do last year? How'd the "greatest show on turf" do in 2001? How'd the "greatest offense ever" 1998 Vikings do?

    In 2013, the Pats scored 444 points...good enough for 3rd in the entire NFL.

    What they lacked was situational defense and offense. 3rd downs. Red zones.

    Sure, taking a QB when you have Tom Brady seems outrageous...but that's what you do to build a solid franchise. People thought the Pats were crazy to waste a roster spot on Brady as a 4th QB in 2000 as well. 

    One thing they DO NOT NEED, contrary to popular belief, is more weapons. They have enough, 2007 isn't ever coming back, and I don't want it.

    2003/04, however, looks like it may be making a much anticipated come back!




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Agreed, nice post! 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:


    Prolate - 

    Fair points.

    I REALLY like Lafell. I think his style of receiving fits the Pats/Brady's style perfectly.

    As for RB receiving options...they quietly have one of the best in the NFL - Shane Vereen. Few people realize he was on pace for 90+ catches...perhaps not "on pace", but that's what his stats extrapolate out to over 16. Yes, that's the question with him...but if he can avoid more broken bones, I see him as an easy 70+ catch guy if playing 16 games. And honestly, I think that's low. He's a very talented receiver (don't blame the drops on him, he was wearing a gauntlet for most of the season) who can even be split wide, as he was in the 2012 playoffs. 

    I really, really, like the group of WRs: Edelman, Amendola, Lafell, Dobson, Thompkins, Boyce. Having Gronk further enhances that group. Having Gronk + Vereen adds more. Having Gronk +Vereen +Ridley (if he's not fumbling) makes for an exceptional offense.




    Dragon,

    I agree on LaFell and think he could be the guy that actually replaces Hernandez.  Not that he'll be a TE (or as productive as Hernandez was), but he is a good blocking WR, and he  gives us size in the shorter field receiving position.  The Panthers lined him up as an H-back at times, so he has versatility to play that sort of role.

    I agree about Vereen and am interested in White. I could imagine more two-back sets in the future.  What intrigues me is the possibility of a two-back formation used for its passing potential and not just for its running potential.  

    Overall, I think the receivers may be enough.  But I'm also the kind of guy who wants to see it on the field. Boyce, for instance, could be good, but he didn't show last year and until he does I can't say I am confident he will be good.  I think the WRs remain questionable and beyond Gronk the TEs too (and Gronk is coming off a significant injury as well). So I'm not ready to fully commit to saying this is going to be a great group, but I do feel there are plenty of reasons to be positive and not be discouraged.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    The most over rated position in the NFL is wide receiver. This isn't the CFL.




    I don't know about over- or underrated, but all 11 guys are important in the NFL and all 12 in the CFL.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    It was a terrible pick if you are interested in winning championships and not happy with division titles. 

    But, you can take some comfort in the fact that Belichick is terrible at drafting high round wide receivers. But - he could have gotten a nice tight end with that pick and he's pretty good at drafting those

       
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    Jimmy G might be a very good QB some day. Jimmy G may never see the field in a Pats uni. 2nd round choice is steep value for in insurance policy. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    Why?

    Adding another target is certainly debatable and could be done, but what was there in the second round that would be an impact player at WR? Over the years no WR has come in and had an immediate impact to a huge degree the best examples are Branch in 02 and Dobson last season. There are two things I think make rook WR struggle here: the Patriots cant draft WR or our offensive system is hard to pick up on, I think the latter is right.

    If BB drafted a WR in the 2nd round this season who would it be and what impact would he make? Not much of a difference maker.

    If we took Jimmy G over a Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans or Odell Beckham you could have a legitimate beef but if we aren't taking a WR in the Top 20 I don't expect much of anything from them. Jimmy G was a great pick looking toward the future. I would have preferred a DE, TE or LB there but I really don't mind the pick.

    Asking for another target that would be equivalent to all of the players we have would be dumb. We are already loaded at WR and unless we get an Andre Johnson or draft a stud asking to get a target in round 2 seems pointless to me. They would need a season or two to gel

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    As a previous poster said, Belichick is pretty good at drafting tight ends.  So, why didn't he draft one? More than likely because he didn't see any available that he liked.  I'll trust his judgement on that one. 

    The team needed a backup QB because Mallet is gone after this season, maybe before but I tend to doubt that.

    JG needs at least a season of grooming/learning the offense before he's given sole backup duty.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to Salcon's comment:

    As a previous poster said, Belichick is pretty good at drafting tight ends.  So, why didn't he draft one? More than likely because he didn't see any available that he liked.  I'll trust his judgement on that one. 

    The team needed a backup QB because Mallet is gone after this season, maybe before but I tend to doubt that.

    JG needs at least a season of grooming/learning the offense before he's given sole backup duty.




    I disagree with this, if Garappolo needs two years just to become a backup then we should of drafted someone else. You don't spend second round picks on guys who aren't even capable of being backups - I don't care if we are talking about a QB - if you are drafted that high you should at least be able to be a backup. With the needs this team had (tight end, receiver, defensive tackle, cover linebacker, safety) Garappolo must have been drafted with higher expectations than you are mentioning. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to Salcon's comment:

    As a previous poster said, Belichick is pretty good at drafting tight ends.  So, why didn't he draft one? More than likely because he didn't see any available that he liked.  I'll trust his judgement on that one. 

    The team needed a backup QB because Mallet is gone after this season, maybe before but I tend to doubt that.

    JG needs at least a season of grooming/learning the offense before he's given sole backup duty.




    I disagree with this, if Garappolo needs two years just to become a backup then we should of drafted someone else. You don't spend second round picks on guys who aren't even capable of being backups - I don't care if we are talking about a QB - if you are drafted that high you should at least be able to be a backup. With the needs this team had (tight end, receiver, defensive tackle, cover linebacker, safety) Garappolo must have been drafted with higher expectations than you are mentioning. 



    Mhurl, I have to disagree with you here.  A number 2 QB needs every bit as much knowledge of the pro game and the offense as the starter.  There aren't many rookies who are up to that regardless of where they're drafted and the Pats offense is one of the most complex in the league. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    Should have used that 2nd rnd pick for a freaking TE.  Wasted it on JG, imo. 

     

    *******************************

    Be a Fan!  But don't be a Homer Fan!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    Dragon..........hammer/nail.......

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    BB is good at drafting TEs?  He drafted enough of them over the years so I would hope he'd unearth a few good ones!  He drafted Dan Graham and Watson in the first round.  Both solid but not spectacular -- agreed.  Then he took a gamble of Gronk (health) and Hernandez (behaviour) and for a while it looked like the heist of the century.  Hindsight says otherwise with Hern but Gronk is an All Pro.  So yeah, sure, he has drafted some good ones.

    But to say that BB was guaranteed to find a good TE (or WR -- and assuming he was going to draft for need in the first place) toward the end of the second round is probably not accurate.   I have no problem with BB taking a developmental prospect at QB where quick draw Jimmy G was drafted  -- they chose him for a reason (value) and I'd rather they take a shot with a guy who grades out highly than just take any ol' TE or WR.     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I don't know about over- or underrated, but all 11 guys are important in the NFL and all 12 in the CFL.

    Yes, they are all important but some are more important than others.


    QB > OL > RB > WR > TE depending on how good your QB is.


    Give me a Troy Brown or a Deion Branch, someone who is team first and not me first and you'll be more successful with them vs a diva WR like so many of them are. Plus they cost too much.


    Last year's rookies will make the jump, Gronk, Amendola and Edelman will stay healthy and all will be well in Patriots land.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I don't know about over- or underrated, but all 11 guys are important in the NFL and all 12 in the CFL.

    Yes, they are all important but some are more important than others.

     

     

    QB > OL > RB > WR > TE depending on how good your QB is.

     

    Give me a Troy Brown or a Deion Branch, someone who is team first and not me first and you'll be more successful with them vs a diva WR like so many of them are. Plus they cost too much.

     

    Last year's rookies will make the jump, Gronk, Amendola and Edelman will stay healthy and all will be well in Patriots land.




    Other than QB, that's a pretty subjective ranking.  RBs for instance can barely find jobs now, and NFL GMs pay top receivers pretty good money, so unless those GMs are all dumb, I think your ranking is a little hard to defend.  Personally, I'd be delighted with receivers as good as the 2004 Branch, Brown, Givens, Patten, Johnson group.  People talk as if those guys were dog meat.  That was a nice, well-rounded group if you ask me.

    There's a tendency for people to poo-poo receivers on this site, and to say high scoring offenses are not valuable.  That's knee jerkism if you ask me.  The fact that the Pats didn't win the Super Bowl in 2007 doesn't negate Randy Moss's value.  Nor does it mean a high-powered offense is no good.  It just underscores how hard it is to win the championship.  A lot has to go right.  One way to help things go right, though, is to be good and deep in as many positions as possible - and that includes wideout.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    It was a terrible pick if you are interested in winning championships and not happy with division titles. 

    But, you can take some comfort in the fact that Belichick is terrible at drafting high round wide receivers. But - he could have gotten a nice tight end with that pick and he's pretty good at drafting those

       



    History says picking  "more targets" is a terrible pick if you want to win real NFL football championships! How ever if you want to win "Fantasy Football Championships" the more "targets" the better. Like was said before, league best offenses just don't win the Superbowl.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    It was a terrible pick if you are interested in winning championships and not happy with division titles. 

    But, you can take some comfort in the fact that Belichick is terrible at drafting high round wide receivers. But - he could have gotten a nice tight end with that pick and he's pretty good at drafting those

       



    History says picking  "more targets" is a terrible pick if you want to win real NFL football championships! How ever if you want to win "Fantasy Football Championships" the more "targets" the better. Like was said before, league best offenses just don't win the Superbowl.




    You may have said that, but you'd be wrong.  The Saints just did it in 2009.  

      

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Other than QB, that's a pretty subjective ranking.  RBs for instance can barely find jobs now, and NFL GMs pay top receivers pretty good money, so unless those GMs are all dumb, I think your ranking is a little hard to defend.  Personally, I'd be delighted with receivers as good as the 2004 Branch, Brown, Givens, Patten, Johnson group.  People talk as if those guys were dog meat.  That was a nice, well-rounded group if you ask me.


    There's a tendency for people to poo-poo receivers on this site, and to say high scoring offenses are not valuable.  That's knee jerkism if you ask me.  The fact that the Pats didn't win the Super Bowl in 2007 doesn't negate Randy Moss's value.  Nor does it mean a high-powered offense is no good.  It just underscores how hard it is to win the championship.  A lot has to go right.  One way to help things go right, though, is to be good and deep in as many positions as possible - and that includes wideout.


    I had WR above RB but changed it just for you. :)


    As for NFL GMs being dumb for giving receivers big money I'll let you be the judge.


    Here's the top 20 highest paid wide receivers and their seasons in the postseason.


    Calvin Johnson Lions              1 of 7 in postseason
    Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals      2 of 10 in postseason
    Percy Harvin Seahawks          2 of 5 in postseason
    Mike Wallace Dolphins           2 of 5 in postseason
    Dwayne Bowe Chiefs             2 of 7 in postseason
    Vincent Jackson Buccaneers 4 of 9 in postseason
    Brandon Marshall Bears         0 of 8 in postseason
    Andre Johnson Texans          2 of 11 in postseason
    Greg Jennings Vikings           5 of 8 in postseason
    Victor Cruz Giants                  1 of 4 in postseason
    Roddy White Falcons            4 of 9 in postseason
    Pierre Garcon Redskins          3 of 6 in postseason
    Antonio Brown Steelers         2 of 4 in postseason
    DeSean Jackson Redskins     4 of 6 in postseason
    Mike Williams Bills                  0 of 4 in postseason
    Marques Colston Saints       5 of 8 in postseason
    Steve Johnson 49ers           0 of 6 in postseason
    Eric Decker Jets                    3 of 4 in postseason
    Golden Tate Lions                 3 of 4 in postseason
    Brian Hartline Dolphins        0 of 5 in postseason
    Overrated

     
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