Still sick about the 2nd round pick

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

     



    It would certainly have helped the Patriots if they had a guy who made plays like Harvin did against the Broncos.  He was injured most of the season, but boy did he step up in the Super Bowl.  Those sweep plays were brilliant and the kick off return sealed the victory.  

     

    And as far as high paid receivers not being worth the money, your argument could apply to just about any position other than QB.  How many rings do guys like Mario Williams or Demarcus Ware or Ndamukong Suh or Darelle Revis or Adrian Peterson have?  It takes a team to win.  By your argument most high paid players aren't worth the money. In that case, there's no need to single out WRs.  

     

    Look, you don't need a great player at any particular position (other than QB) to be competitive--but you do need enough good players at enough positions if you hope to challenge for a Lombardi. Having good receivers helps you in that goal.  It's not essential if you have quality elsewhere--and it's not enough if you lack quality elsewhere--but it never hurts to have impact players in any role. 

     

    Moss made a difference for the Pats.  So did Branch when he was young.  Denying this is silly. 

     

     

     

     

     

      

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    I like the way you wrote this because too often we hear...you don't need this, or you can't have that, or how many great this or that have won Super Bowls?? And I get so tired of hearing it, the truth is you need the QB and good players around him...with a few great ones sprinkled in. Look at a team like the Bengals, they have a very good defense lead by Geno Atkins (the best defensive tackle in football who also happens to be a 4th round pick), and they also have some great receivers, but they will never win a thing, not with Andrew Dalton throwing the football. I watched Dalton overthrow 6'4" all world receivers in the playoffs two years in a row...missed them by a mile...then I watched his defense keep them close enough to win it. It means nothing when your QB can't complete passes despite getting all the support in the world around him. And the same can be said about many many other teams - they have talent - but they don't have the QB. Do you know what that means? It means 8-8 and your GM will be getting fired despite him bringing in good players (which means nothing if he couldn't get his hands on that QB), and that's the problem most can't.   

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

     

    Thanks mthurl.  There really are no generalizations one can make about how you win championships.  You don't need to be great at any particular position--and being great at some position is no guarantee you'll win.  What you need really are three things:

    • Enough quality at enough positions to have ways you can win against a large number of teams
    • Good coaching (especially good game planning)
    • Good match-ups
    Even really good teams can lose if they get a bad match up.  Honestly, that's what happened to the 2007 Patriots.  They were an excellent team, they just got a bad match up for them in the Super Bowl.  The Pats' O line wasn't a bad one, but it was wearing down late in the season and its one weakness was lack of blockers who could handle elite pass rushers one on one.  The Giants had three great pass rushers and they sent all of them, not just from the edges, but up the middle too, which just overwhelmed guys who didn't have the foot speed and lateral agility to win the individual match-ups.  As a team blocking against one elite edge rusher, the Pats O line would have held up.  But when guys like Kaczur and Hochstein and even Mankins need to handle multiple elite rushers one-on-one, you are in trouble.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    Staying healthy for a season.  Last year was a beating.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Thanks mthurl.  There really are no generalizations one can make about how you win championships.  You don't need to be great at any particular position--and being great at some position is no guarantee you'll win.  What you need really are three things:

    • Enough quality at enough positions to have ways you can win against a large number of teams
    • Good coaching (especially good game planning)
    • Good match-ups

    Even really good teams can lose if they get a bad match up.  Honestly, that's what happened to the 2007 Patriots.  They were an excellent team, they just got a bad match up for them in the Super Bowl.  The Pats' O line wasn't a bad one, but it was wearing down late in the season and its one weakness was lack of blockers who could handle elite pass rushers one on one.  The Giants had three great pass rushers and they sent all of them, not just from the edges, but up the middle too, which just overwhelmed guys who didn't have the foot speed and lateral agility to win the individual match-ups.  As a team blocking against one elite edge rusher, the Pats O line would have held up.  But when guys like Kaczur and Hochstein and even Mankins need to handle multiple elite rushers one-on-one, you are in trouble.  




    Very true. And speaking of pass rushers, I DO think that is a vital position/ingredient for the simple fact that it impacts so many other areas. A pass rush will improve your secondary - think about that - having a four man line that can pressure will hypothetically improve seven players behind it (three linebackers and four players in the secondary). It also will attack and potentially ruin the greatest advantage an offense has on a defense in today's NFL...the passing game. But you are right, without the other ingredients (QB/offense), you are not winning a thing.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Still sick about the 2nd round pick

    In response to mthurl's comment:


    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    I guess I think you can win with a mediocre QB and mediocre offense--but only if you have a great defense.  You kind of need to make up for a weakness in one place with a strength somewhere else--and hope you don't get a really bad match up (or caught in a particular situation) that really exposes your weakness, neutralizes your strength, or forces you to have to rely on your weakness to win. 


    A great pass rush is a huge plus.  In general, good play up front on both offense and defense is super important because it's the foundation for everything else.  But even teams with mediocre pass rushes can win if they have enough strengths elsewhere and don't get a bad match up where not having a good pass rush is a real killer (i.e., against a QB like Manning who is deadly if you can't pressure him at all and also can't disrupt the timing of his receivers).  


     

     
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