Stuff Pats fans should think about

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    Stuff Pats fans should think about

    I never post on here (lucky to you all) because I can't use filthy language and sexual references, but I can't help myself today after the game and the ensuing reaction here.  Just hear it out....

    1. Not really jiving with the whole "sky is falling" mantra.  Baltimore looked like the best team in the league last week after throwing the Jets down a flight of stairs and Cincy looked like a train wreck.  A lot the way the Pats looked great last week and the Jets didn't.  So what happens? Balty goes into Cincy and gets flattened, the Pats lose, and all the sudden what happened a week ago was forgotten?  Bottom line is, it's tough to win on the road in the NFL.  Other bottom line is the Jets are good.  It's not like they took it on the chin to the Browns or Panthers.  You think Baltimore fans are pissing in their own cheerios the Monday after a loss, 8 days after a big win?  If losing @ the Jets ruins a season, I can think of about 30 teams who probably would be ruined.

    2. I wouldn't hire Bill O'Brien to be a janitor @ a middle school.  Where the F was the run in the 2nd half?  I know, I know, it wasn't breaking any records, but when you @ least SHOW you're willing to hand the ball off, it forces the D to account for that possibility.  Even 3 yards a carry opens up the pass game, because the safties hafta @ least think about the run.  It's what kills the Colts year in and out typically...no one buys play action when they never actually believe you're willing to run it.  Just a miserably called game, after a week and one half of football that looked solid if not refreshing.  Run the damn ball.  It's not that hard.  And lastly, what's with all the long routes?  How frigging long does he expect the O-Line to block?  Seems like every time TB drops back, the routes are taking 40 minutes to develop.  Call some shorter stuff.  That way Jason Taylor won't have time to roast marshmellows and THEN get up and sack the QB.

    3.  Brady played awful, and I hate to call him out because the guy clearly is the gold standard for the position since Montana retired, but he played a bad game.  It happens.  Brees has them.  Manning has them.  Brady sometimes will have them.  It's nice that he took accountability, but it only works if you show up the next few weeks and prove it right.  Still, some blame has to go to Randy Moss.  Revis might not have been in, but he was writing Moss' obituary on the sidelines (assuming since he went to Pitt, he can actually write).  Moss alligator armed a pass over the middle for a big gain in the first half, dropped a perfectly thrown ball in the end zone, never even tried to make a play on the ball deep when Cromartie intercepted it.  Run Randy, run.  I don't understand why everyone gets killed but Randy Moss after a loss.  Dude half arsed it several times.

    4. Darius Butler is awful.  If there's a worse starting CB in the NFL, I'd like to see him.  I get that he knows he needs to get better.  I get that he says he hasn't been getting it done.  But I can say "I can't dunk a basketball, I need to work harder" 100 times.  It's not gonna help me ever solve the problem of being a white dude with a bum knee when I simply can't frigging do it.  Surely someone's on the waiver wire that can be picked up to let Braylon Edwards look like he was playing back in college against IU for crissakes.  Have a receiver that can't catch?  Call Darius Butler.  Guaranteed to make your trash look like Larry Fitzgerald.

    5. Belichick also always gets a free pass.  Dude either has too much film on what he does, is too stubborn to change his philosophy, or simply is in a rut seeing the game.  Maybe he's bored, maybe not, but damn...this has been a recurring theme for a guy rooted in defense.  Bad tackling, not getting the players to work in his scheme, 2nd half breakdowns, atrocious secondaries.  I realize Bodden is out of his control, but there's no depth on the team, and that falls on the guys running the front office.  Which...yeah, that's Bill.

    Hopefully next week goes a little better.  Brady's gotta stop looking @ Moss if it isn't working.  The play calling has to be more than just the vertical pass.  Moss needs to look himself in the mirror on certain plays and wonder if Revis was half right, and Bill needs to adjust better in-game.  That's the bottom line.  This is still a good team with a top 5 all time QB, and the scores of teams that were taking hell last week (Jets, Colts to name a few) are on the other end of the spectrum this week.  It's not like it can't turn the F around, it just needs to starting today.
     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    You're on spot, John.

    I don't really understand when and where it got to the point where Bill was the best in-game adjuster to being one of the most stale.  There was a time when he could take retreads, the physically declining, and make them look like pro bowlers.  I've played sports my entire life, and I've never gotten to the point where I see the game really all that different.  So I don't understand where the heck Bill forgot to overachieve on defense.  And what's worse, HE'S bringing in these guys so he thinks not only can they be coached to fit his scheme, but they're ideal to do so.

    I'm starting to wonder like you, if Moss is a detriment to Brady's seeing the field.  When the team was full of soaks like Branch, Brown, Givens, etc, the play calling was more diverse and more guys got touches.  They'll turn it around, but not without some soul searching and a committment to changing some things that are comfortable.  Miami and the Jets are too good to be d*cking around.  But, like I said, the Jets are good.  Not many teams are gonna go in there and beat them.  Sad thing is?  Baltimore did it with a backup CB and a backup S.  Which means those guys are probably better than the Pats starters.
     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    I watched KC play against San Diego.  Vrabel still has command of a defense.  I honestly wish I could have a beer (or for me, 20) with Bill and ask him if he'd tilted a few too many back the night he made that decision or what?  Couldn't he have just taken a heffer back instead and chalked it up to a bad thought process for one night?

    I think there aren't many moves to be made @ this point.  NFL seems to not have much trade activity unless it involves picks.  They need a corner badly, there's just no depth.  Page from KC was a nice addition on paper, but aside from special teams duty I haven't seen much of him.  But that's the problem.  He's the GM.  He's had all offseason to fix the issues that killed this team (no pass rush, miserable CB play, head scratching gaffes in tackling) on defense and addressed none of them.  McCourty looks like a great pick, but again, since Sanchez was looking almost all the time @ Braylon first, why not switch McCourty up on him? 

    Yesterdays game was just a mess.  I hope it gets turned around soon.  Teams like San Diego, Indy, even Miami as we've seen will pick Bill's D apart if they get 5 hours to stand back there, grow a beard, and pick a receiver.
     
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    In Response to Stuff Pats fans should think about:
    [QUOTE]I never post on here (lucky to you all) because I can't use filthy language and sexual references, but I can't help myself today after the game and the ensuing reaction here.  Just hear it out.... 1. Not really jiving with the whole "sky is falling" mantra.  Baltimore looked like the best team in the league last week after throwing the Jets down a flight of stairs and Cincy looked like a train wreck.  A lot the way the Pats looked great last week and the Jets didn't.  So what happens? Balty goes into Cincy and gets flattened, the Pats lose, and all the sudden what happened a week ago was forgotten?  Bottom line is, it's tough to win on the road in the NFL.  Other bottom line is the Jets are good.  It's not like they took it on the chin to the Browns or Panthers.  You think Baltimore fans are pissing in their own cheerios the Monday after a loss, 8 days after a big win?  If losing @ the Jets ruins a season, I can think of about 30 teams who probably would be ruined. 2. I wouldn't hire Bill O'Brien to be a janitor @ a middle school.  Where the F was the run in the 2nd half?  I know, I know, it wasn't breaking any records, but when you @ least SHOW you're willing to hand the ball off, it forces the D to account for that possibility.  Even 3 yards a carry opens up the pass game, because the safties hafta @ least think about the run.  It's what kills the Colts year in and out typically...no one buys play action when they never actually believe you're willing to run it.  Just a miserably called game, after a week and one half of football that looked solid if not refreshing.  Run the damn ball.  It's not that hard.  And lastly, what's with all the long routes?  How frigging long does he expect the O-Line to block?  Seems like every time TB drops back, the routes are taking 40 minutes to develop.  Call some shorter stuff.  That way Jason Taylor won't have time to roast marshmellows and THEN get up and sack the QB. 3.  Brady played awful, and I hate to call him out because the guy clearly is the gold standard for the position since Montana retired, but he played a bad game.  It happens.  Brees has them.  Manning has them.  Brady sometimes will have them.  It's nice that he took accountability, but it only works if you show up the next few weeks and prove it right.  Still, some blame has to go to Randy Moss.  Revis might not have been in, but he was writing Moss' obituary on the sidelines (assuming since he went to Pitt, he can actually write).  Moss alligator armed a pass over the middle for a big gain in the first half, dropped a perfectly thrown ball in the end zone, never even tried to make a play on the ball deep when Cromartie intercepted it.  Run Randy, run.  I don't understand why everyone gets killed but Randy Moss after a loss.  Dude half arsed it several times. 4. Darius Butler is awful.  If there's a worse starting CB in the NFL, I'd like to see him.  I get that he knows he needs to get better.  I get that he says he hasn't been getting it done.  But I can say "I can't dunk a basketball, I need to work harder" 100 times.  It's not gonna help me ever solve the problem of being a white dude with a bum knee when I simply can't frigging do it.  Surely someone's on the waiver wire that can be picked up to let Braylon Edwards look like he was playing back in college against IU for crissakes.  Have a receiver that can't catch?  Call Darius Butler.  Guaranteed to make your trash look like Larry Fitzgerald. 5. Belichick also always gets a free pass.  Dude either has too much film on what he does, is too stubborn to change his philosophy, or simply is in a rut seeing the game.  Maybe he's bored, maybe not, but damn...this has been a recurring theme for a guy rooted in defense.  Bad tackling, not getting the players to work in his scheme, 2nd half breakdowns, atrocious secondaries.  I realize Bodden is out of his control, but there's no depth on the team, and that falls on the guys running the front office.  Which...yeah, that's Bill. Hopefully next week goes a little better.  Brady's gotta stop looking @ Moss if it isn't working.  The play calling has to be more than just the vertical pass.  Moss needs to look himself in the mirror on certain plays and wonder if Revis was half right, and Bill needs to adjust better in-game.  That's the bottom line.  This is still a good team with a top 5 all time QB, and the scores of teams that were taking hell last week (Jets, Colts to name a few) are on the other end of the spectrum this week.  It's not like it can't turn the F around, it just needs to starting today.
    Posted by teddydupay4[/QUOTE]
    As much as I like and respect TB, I think that P. Manning is the best QB in the league without question.
     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    Statistically Vrabel wasn't huge, but especially on the last drive he really was moving around pointing his  younger teammates in the places they needed to be.  I think that's invaluable.  Could be that I'm overrating it, like I do when I say Dark Eyes and Jennifer Aniston seems like a great night @ home...but I think leadership and know how are big.

    The pass rush wasn't as miserable as maybe some people are making it out to be, I'll agree on that juncture.  Lotta missed arm tackles and a few over-running of Sanchez contributed to what went on.  They did have more sacks than the Jets D, something people are forgetting.  I'd say more than the pass rush, the big concern is in the secondary.  It seemed like guys were running free unmolested all day.

     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    In Response to Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about:
    [QUOTE]I completely agree with both of you. I think Belichick, above any one player, deserves the blame for the new Patriots. A) There is a lot to be said for him making all the decisions. The guy is one of the best coaches ever, and I understand Rodney and Bruschi retiring was unseen, but why trade Seymour and Vrabel? Our defense is young and fast, but that doesn't help when they have no veteran leadership. B) Belichick is too stubborn to rely on any coordinators anymore. The Pats haven't won squat since Weiss and Crennel left. He fell in love with an offense, that could be great, but doesn't run the ball. Maybe if we had a guy that can lower his head and get 3-4-5 yards a carry we could go deep with a little more success. Again, the Pats haven't won squat since Corey Dillon left town. All in all, the Pats need playmakers. One loss to the Jets isn't the entire season, but it showed many trends that can sink a season. Not getting any turnovers against a below average Jets team is kinda sad. I don't know if trading is the answer, but they do have Mankins and two first rounders to dangle. Maybe a guy like Shawne Merriman? Not crazy about him but at least opposing teams have to gameplan for someone besides Vince. Thoughts? SIDENOTE: Why the bleep didn't we sign Jason Taylor if only to keep him from demolishing Brady? I don't care if we signed him to ride pine but at least it would be one less worry.
    Posted by matty37111[/QUOTE]
    The veterans are not around because they didn't want to pay them or wanted to remain under the cap. It's business.
     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    In Response to Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about:
    [QUOTE]To the various thinkers on this thread - 1 - The two bottom lines - the league is becoming more competitive, and the Jets played desperation football and overachieved badly.  2 - Are people on MatildaWanda's electric koolaid acid trip?  The run does not work, period; you have to THROW the ball.  The run does not set up anything; it never has; all it does is waste downs.  It was not a badly-called game, it was a BADLY EXECUTED game. 3 - Is there a worse corner than Darius Butler?  Well, yes - Antonio Cromartie, Ellis Hobbs, Asante Samuel, Kyle Wilson.....a whole bunch.  Butler is not the problem. 4 - Randy Moss wasn't the fault; Brady was inaccurate on too many throws. 5 - What is Belichick supposed to change philosophically anyway?  People say he's too stubborn to change - what is he supposed to change?
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]
    The Jet's OC admitted that he tried too hard to manage the game last week against the Ravens for Sanchez. This week he cut him loose. 124 QB rating vs. TB's 72. It wasn't desperation, it's called bringing it every play. They actually underachieved last week trying a more conservative route and they were facing a tougher Raven's D.
     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    In Response to Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about : Seymour is a quitter and Vrabel is old.  Neither of them are leaders.  It's that simple. Name me a Superbowl season that was NOT decided by throwing the ball - oh yeah, there aren't any.  Antowain Smith did not make a difference in 2001 or '03; Corey Dillon was important for only ONE game (the playoff game over Indianapolis); establishing the run is a myth.  You win ONLY by out-passing the opponent. Charlie Weis cannot coach - the Patriots won despite him, not because of him - and it's obvious with Kansas City's joke of an offense.  Romeo Crennel cannot coach even though KC's defense has jumped to the fore.  If either one of these guys could coach they would not be demoted to coordinator status.  Belichick is "stubborn" in doing what too many teams don't do - develop fresh coaching talent.  That's not a liability, it's an asset.  How would Shawne Merrimann, who is not a playmaker anymore, going to fit into this system?  Why give away draft picks?  Jason Taylor's lazy workout habits were on display on HARD KNOCKS and they showed a player just along for the ride. 
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]
    Jason Taylor has more sacks on TB than any active player today. His sack and forced fumble ended the Pats' bid to score late yesterday. He's owned the Pats' OL for years. He's always been a problem for them.
     
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    Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about

    In Response to Re: Stuff Pats fans should think about:
    [QUOTE]What?  Vrabel didn't do anything in that San Diego game.  He hadn't done anything to warrant keeping him throughout 2008 and 2009.  What pass rush are they supposed to have?  They attacked up the middle - that's how you win.  The Jets played desperation football and they overachieved.  Don't assume this defense will not get better or the execution problems won't be corrected - we forget in the Bengals game they closed it out like they weren't doing the previous year.
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]
    You must be a parrot. Parrots are redundant. Desperation and overachieve don't belong in the Jets' vernacular. You need to look beyond Pats' problems. The Jets are very good. The Pays aren't always.
     

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