"surprising" colts defense returns 7 players from tank team

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    "surprising" colts defense returns 7 players from tank team

    Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, Johnson ... DL

    Connor , Mathews ... LB

    powers, bethea...  Secondary

     

    throw in some serviceable players to fill out your defense and you go from  0-9 to 6-3...?

    Hmmmm...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jac1421. Show jac1421's posts

    Re:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, Johnson ... DL

    Connor , Mathews ... LB

    powers, bethea...  Secondary

     

    throw in some serviceable players to fill out your defense and you go from  0-9 to 6-3...?

    Hmmmm...

     

     

    Okay, I've had it.  Can we stop with the ridiculous idea that the Colts tanked last year?!?!  It makes Pats found sound like a bunch of babies.  It's embarrassing.  Let me lay out the reasons:

    1) These are professional athletes.  They DO NOT care about the next season's draft pick.  They are playing for their jobs...their livelihood!

    2) Bill Polian is way too arrogant to tank a season.  No way he does that.

    3) In relation to #2), Polian did not want to get rid of Peyton!  He had no interest in re-building.


    So, quit crying about a "tanked" season and quit embarrassing yourselves.  It is ridiculous.  Look at the bright side, Ryan Mallet is getting lots of time to learn behind Brady before he retires.




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re:

    In response to jac1421's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, Johnson ... DL

    Connor , Mathews ... LB

    powers, bethea...  Secondary

     

    throw in some serviceable players to fill out your defense and you go from  0-9 to 6-3...?

    Hmmmm...

     

     

    Okay, I've had it.  Can we stop with the ridiculous idea that the Colts tanked last year?!?!  It makes Pats found sound like a bunch of babies.  It's embarrassing.  Let me lay out the reasons:

    1) These are professional athletes.  They DO NOT care about the next season's draft pick.  They are playing for their jobs...their livelihood!

    2) Bill Polian is way too arrogant to tank a season.  No way he does that.

    3) In relation to #2), Polian did not want to get rid of Peyton!  He had no interest in re-building.


    So, quit crying about a "tanked" season and quit embarrassing yourselves.  It is ridiculous.  Look at the bright side, Ryan Mallet is getting lots of time to learn behind Brady before he retires.






    Everyone in the world knew the Colts tanked. Not the players, that would be foolish to think they did, but most certainly the orginization. You don't go from a playoff team to the worst team back to a playoff team over 3 years because of just the QB (which you knew before hand wasn't coming back well before the season started). There are also certain factors that can cause the team to tank while the players are trying their hardest. Improper practice (unknown), incompetent coaching (yep), not properly filling out the roster with the right players (yep), inproper game preparation (yep), bad game management (yep). People don't like to admit it but the coaching and management can have a huge factor on the team. All the talent in the world won't make you win without having the right pieces in place. If you doubt that look at the Lakers. I mean really a team with Kobe, Nash, and Howard in a league where a single player can make a difference can't just role players out and win. Brown was the wrong coach and they were failing. Truth is that ownership can have a huge effect on a team without the players ever having to get involved just by simply not finding proper replacements for those that left and by hiring coaches who just plain don't know what they are doing. Heck the coaches don't even have to intentially tank if they have no clue how to actual coach to begin with 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

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    I disagree that the Colts are a legitimate playoff caliber team right now (their schedule was so much tougher last season) but they are definitely headed in the right direction. Whether they tanked or not I think its time to let it go; starting to sound a bit like Dogg about Spygate.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to jac1421's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, Johnson ... DL

    Connor , Mathews ... LB

    powers, bethea...  Secondary

     

    throw in some serviceable players to fill out your defense and you go from  0-9 to 6-3...?

    Hmmmm...

     

     

    Okay, I've had it.  Can we stop with the ridiculous idea that the Colts tanked last year?!?!  It makes Pats found sound like a bunch of babies.  It's embarrassing.  Let me lay out the reasons:

    1) These are professional athletes.  They DO NOT care about the next season's draft pick.  They are playing for their jobs...their livelihood!

    2) Bill Polian is way too arrogant to tank a season.  No way he does that.

    3) In relation to #2), Polian did not want to get rid of Peyton!  He had no interest in re-building.


    So, quit crying about a "tanked" season and quit embarrassing yourselves.  It is ridiculous.  Look at the bright side, Ryan Mallet is getting lots of time to learn behind Brady before he retires.






    Everyone in the world knew the Colts tanked. Not the players, that would be foolish to think they did, but most certainly the orginization. You don't go from a playoff team to the worst team back to a playoff team over 3 years because of just the QB (which you knew before hand wasn't coming back well before the season started). There are also certain factors that can cause the team to tank while the players are trying their hardest. Improper practice (unknown), incompetent coaching (yep), not properly filling out the roster with the right players (yep), inproper game preparation (yep), bad game management (yep). People don't like to admit it but the coaching and management can have a huge factor on the team. All the talent in the world won't make you win without having the right pieces in place. If you doubt that look at the Lakers. I mean really a team with Kobe, Nash, and Howard in a league where a single player can make a difference can't just role players out and win. Brown was the wrong coach and they were failing. Truth is that ownership can have a huge effect on a team without the players ever having to get involved just by simply not finding proper replacements for those that left and by hiring coaches who just plain don't know what they are doing. Heck the coaches don't even have to intentially tank if they have no clue how to actual coach to begin with 




    good post and many of the intentional deficiencies could be investigated...  As distasteful as it seems to so many people...

    Look, tanking or the presumption thereof is a disgrace and something as obvious as this example should be held up, looked at closely and either verified and prosecuted or professionally dismissed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

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    Heck anyone can presume anything.  Reminds me of a Jim Carrey line - "So you're saying I've got a chance". 

    where your presumption fails (and I repeat this as it went without response the first time), beyond every other questionable theory about the subject, is that your local advanced stats gurus, FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS (I know you like the locals), has the colts defense ranked dead last in the league. 

    I kind of wish I was making this up so you'd have a leg to stand on, but you didn't last week and you still don't this week.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

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    When they hired Curtis Painter, then Kerry Collins, and then kept Jim Caldwell they opened themselves up to that thinking.  I mean, If I put Painter on the Packers, and made Caldwell the coach they probably wouldn't win a game either.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

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    Who gives a crap about the Colts anymore?  They have a rookie QB and their other best players are old.  THEY ARE STARTING DARIUS FREAKING BUTLER at corner.  Sure they can beat us this weekend, but that's because the NFL is an any given Sunday league. They aren't anywhere near being as relevant as they were before.  Gomer is gone.  Polian (the whiner) is gone.  The only reason they were our rivals was because they were a contender and because of those 2 guys.  They aren't a division foe anymore.  That ship has sailed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jac1421. Show jac1421's posts

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    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Who gives a crap about the Colts anymore?  They have a rookie QB and their other best players are old.  THEY ARE STARTING DARIUS FREAKING BUTLER at corner.  Sure they can beat us this weekend, but that's because the NFL is an any given Sunday league. They aren't anywhere near being as relevant as they were before.  Gomer is gone.  Polian (the whiner) is gone.  The only reason they were our rivals was because they were a contender and because of those 2 guys.  They aren't a division foe anymore.  That ship has sailed.




    I kind of agree with this.  You all sound like a bunch of paranoid, conspiracy-theorist babies.  You keep saying that "a team doesn't go from playoff team to 2 wins without tanking."  Hmmm, I wonder, were you the same people that have said for years that the Colts would have a hard time winning a game without Manning?  I be you were.

    And, by the way, the Colts may make the playoffs, but that is due, in part, to a weak AFC.  But to pcmIV I say this:  The Colts ARE relevant and they are going to be relevant for a while.   Get used to it.  They will be about $40 million under the cap after this season.  And, by the looks of things, Luck is going to be one of the greatest ever.  (Note: I'm not saying better than Brady or better than Manning...I think those are dumb arguments.)

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

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    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    When they hired Curtis Painter, then Kerry Collins, and then kept Jim Caldwell they opened themselves up to that thinking.  I mean, If I put Painter on the Packers, and made Caldwell the coach they probably wouldn't win a game either.



    They drafted Curtis Painter.  He'd been on the roster for a couple years.  - That you or anyone else knew what he was prior to last season is a lie.  Remember how this board talked up your formerly great, now no longer a patriot back up, Hoyer.  Not much of a difference except for circumstances. 

    Jim Caldwell was hired for continuity's sake.  Same can be seen in the Belichick regime.  In 2 years Caldwell took the colts to the superbowl and playoffs.  Should they have fired him for that?  Should they have fired him midseason?  To then do what?  Were any others on the staff HC material?  What coaches not on the staff would have been available then?  Not Chuck Pagano.  Not Bruce Arians.  They were employed.  Should they have hired someone they didn't want?  Do you know that they never considered it?  What coach would have been available mid-season, and would they have taken the position if they thought the colts might go in another direction at the end of the season? 

    Kerry Collins was a starter in the NFL.  At the time, while I thought they should go with Painter, I thought Collins was a good idea.  Collins also played for Caldwell in college and was drafted by Polian.  the synergy made sense.  The colts, it is known, tried to get Hasselbeck.  He turned them down. 

    You kind of make my arguement for me.  if Caldwell was inept, yet they went to the superbowl with him, then weren't the colts failures last year largely due to Manning's absence?  How could the colts have forseen Manning being out a year when he'd never missed a game and played with the injury the prior year?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

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    In response to UD6's comment:

    Heck anyone can presume anything.  Reminds me of a Jim Carrey line - "So you're saying I've got a chance". 

    where your presumption fails (and I repeat this as it went without response the first time), beyond every other questionable theory about the subject, is that your local advanced stats gurus, FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS (I know you like the locals), has the colts defense ranked dead last in the league. 

    I kind of wish I was making this up so you'd have a leg to stand on, but you didn't last week and you still don't this week.



    The defense hasallowed only 14 ppg for the last 4 games games and rank 13th for the year in this stat.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    When they hired Curtis Painter, then Kerry Collins, and then kept Jim Caldwell they opened themselves up to that thinking.  I mean, If I put Painter on the Packers, and made Caldwell the coach they probably wouldn't win a game either.



    They drafted Curtis Painter.  He'd been on the roster for a couple years.  - That you or anyone else knew what he was prior to last season is a lie.  Remember how this board talked up your formerly great, now no longer a patriot back up, Hoyer.  Not much of a difference except for circumstances. 

    Jim Caldwell was hired for continuity's sake.  Same can be seen in the Belichick regime.  In 2 years Caldwell took the colts to the superbowl and playoffs.  Should they have fired him for that?  Should they have fired him midseason?  To then do what?  Were any others on the staff HC material?  What coaches not on the staff would have been available then?  Not Chuck Pagano.  Not Bruce Arians.  They were employed.  Should they have hired someone they didn't want?  Do you know that they never considered it?  What coach would have been available mid-season, and would they have taken the position if they thought the colts might go in another direction at the end of the season? 

    Kerry Collins was a starter in the NFL.  At the time, while I thought they should go with Painter, I thought Collins was a good idea.  Collins also played for Caldwell in college and was drafted by Polian.  the synergy made sense.  The colts, it is known, tried to get Hasselbeck.  He turned them down. 

    You kind of make my arguement for me.  if Caldwell was inept, yet they went to the superbowl with him, then weren't the colts failures last year largely due to Manning's absence?  How could the colts have forseen Manning being out a year when he'd never missed a game and played with the injury the prior year?



    Painter made one of the most famous debut's of all time against the Jets with a perfect season on the line and put together what was possibly the worst display of quarterbacking of all time.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Hoyer looked like a QB in the games he's played in, big difference.

     

    Their replacement was Collins who was 75 years old and couldn't manage to win a job from Vince Young. 

    Jim Caldwell captained the Colts to their worst season in a decade.  It was fairly obvious he was nothing more than a Switzer.  Yes, he should have been fired, at the time the Colts fans wanted him fired and I'm sure you remember this.  He was seen for what he was, a fried of Dungy's who's job was to do nothing and hope nobody noticed Dungy was gone and everything kept humming along.  But when it went down hill everyone knew he wasn't the man to fix it.

     

    Call it gross ineptitude but the moves sound like Major League with the owner scouring prisons to find the worst starting pitcher.  Just amazingly poor preparation and they made no effort to find a decent QB. 

     

    Orton hits the waiver wire and they do nothing.  I don't think they tanked, but moves like that sure make it hard to sell the story of how hard they were trying.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Heck anyone can presume anything.  Reminds me of a Jim Carrey line - "So you're saying I've got a chance". 

    where your presumption fails (and I repeat this as it went without response the first time), beyond every other questionable theory about the subject, is that your local advanced stats gurus, FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS (I know you like the locals), has the colts defense ranked dead last in the league. 

    I kind of wish I was making this up so you'd have a leg to stand on, but you didn't last week and you still don't this week.



    The defense hasallowed only 14 ppg for the last 4 games games and rank 13th for the year in this stat.



    Football outsiders ranks the colts defense dead last.  In the last 4 games, the colts faced, according to Football Outsiders, the 29th, 26th, 25th, and 31st ranked offenses respectively.  Hopefully, this provides insight into your numbers. 

    Given your angle, I am sure you will look for something else, but that's ok.  Shooting down your "plausible" (your word) theories is like doing a one star Sudoku.  That might be difficult for you but most have no problem with them.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

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    The way I see it, what the Colts did last year was essentially the opposite of what a good basketball team does late in the game when they've got little chance of winning.  Players on the floor aggressively go after the ball.  They don't necessarily intentionally foul; they are just less concerned about fouling than they are getting the ball because they have nothing to lose.

    The Colts (ownership) knew they had little chance of winning without Manning but instead of making desperation moves to win last year they cut their losses (financially), and went with what they had on the roster or with whatever 'value' player they could add.  

    I wouldn't exactly call it 'tanking' so much as I would looking to the future.

    My take.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    When they hired Curtis Painter, then Kerry Collins, and then kept Jim Caldwell they opened themselves up to that thinking.  I mean, If I put Painter on the Packers, and made Caldwell the coach they probably wouldn't win a game either.



    They drafted Curtis Painter.  He'd been on the roster for a couple years.  - That you or anyone else knew what he was prior to last season is a lie.  Remember how this board talked up your formerly great, now no longer a patriot back up, Hoyer.  Not much of a difference except for circumstances. 

    Jim Caldwell was hired for continuity's sake.  Same can be seen in the Belichick regime.  In 2 years Caldwell took the colts to the superbowl and playoffs.  Should they have fired him for that?  Should they have fired him midseason?  To then do what?  Were any others on the staff HC material?  What coaches not on the staff would have been available then?  Not Chuck Pagano.  Not Bruce Arians.  They were employed.  Should they have hired someone they didn't want?  Do you know that they never considered it?  What coach would have been available mid-season, and would they have taken the position if they thought the colts might go in another direction at the end of the season? 

    Kerry Collins was a starter in the NFL.  At the time, while I thought they should go with Painter, I thought Collins was a good idea.  Collins also played for Caldwell in college and was drafted by Polian.  the synergy made sense.  The colts, it is known, tried to get Hasselbeck.  He turned them down. 

    You kind of make my arguement for me.  if Caldwell was inept, yet they went to the superbowl with him, then weren't the colts failures last year largely due to Manning's absence?  How could the colts have forseen Manning being out a year when he'd never missed a game and played with the injury the prior year?



    Painter made one of the most famous debut's of all time against the Jets with a perfect season on the line and put together what was possibly the worst display of quarterbacking of all time.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Hoyer looked like a QB in the games he's played in, big difference.

     

    Their replacement was Collins who was 75 years old and couldn't manage to win a job from Vince Young. 

    Jim Caldwell captained the Colts to their worst season in a decade.  It was fairly obvious he was nothing more than a Switzer.  Yes, he should have been fired, at the time the Colts fans wanted him fired and I'm sure you remember this.  He was seen for what he was, a fried of Dungy's who's job was to do nothing and hope nobody noticed Dungy was gone and everything kept humming along.  But when it went down hill everyone knew he wasn't the man to fix it.

     

    Call it gross ineptitude but the moves sound like Major League with the owner scouring prisons to find the worst starting pitcher.  Just amazingly poor preparation and they made no effort to find a decent QB. 

     

    Orton hits the waiver wire and they do nothing.  I don't think they tanked, but moves like that sure make it hard to sell the story of how hard they were trying.




    Shen,

    Lets not forget that the majority of starters for the colts were pulled during that game, not just Peyton Manning. 

    Lets not forget that Vince Young was "the owners pick" and he made the call about who started.  Collins finished the season as the starter. 

    As for Caldwell, yes even local fans didn't think he was up to the job.  Sounds like plenty here don't think that McDaniels or the new DC are either.  That's what fans do.  But when the guy coaches the team to the SB and gets them to the playoffs the following year amidst a huge number of injuries, even Kraft is not firing the guy.  Further, you can suggest a midseason change was required, but everyone knew Manning's loss was huge.  The colts were competitive in a number of games, and the only way firing the HC makes sense is if someone currently at the job is capable of taking the reigns.  The colts had lost over the prior couple of years, their OC, DC, and Oline coach.  These were their most experienced guys. 

    Polian's elevation of his son to GM is real problem and that is the opinion of many who followed the team.  Some say his son ran off a number of the staff and really hurt the team.  The loss of Manning simply exposed all of this.  It was a perfect storm of sorts. 

    Interestingly, this argument, hinges on the fact that the colts are successful this year.  We've benefitted from a really easy schedule and some good fortune.  Our defense is still ranked last in the league.  We have a really bad oline.  We have marginal running backs.  We have one phenomenal veteran receiver.  The rest are rookies or young fringe players.  Our rookie QB is completing less than 60% of his passes. 

    At 6-3 some power rankings still have the colts in the 20's. 

    What the colts have been is the beneficiary of some good fortune with the schedule against some really bad offenses and teams. 

    Beat your drum if it makes you happy, but rational thinkers understand the validity of my points.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    The way I see it, what the Colts did last year was essentially the opposite of what a good basketball team does late in the game when they've got little chance of winning.  Players on the floor aggressively go after the ball.  They don't necessarily intentionally foul; they are just less concerned about fouling than they are getting the ball because they have nothing to lose.

    The Colts (ownership) knew they had little chance of winning without Manning but instead of making desperation moves to win last year they cut their losses (financially), and went with what they had on the roster or with whatever 'value' player they could add.  

    I wouldn't exactly call it 'tanking' so much as I would looking to the future.

    My take.



    Simple facts are that abysmal QB play put them at 0-6, and the team quit.  Hard to admit as a Colts fan, but they had no heart last year.  They were defeated before they even stepped foot on the field.  A good coach could have gotten six to eight wins out of that team, but Caldwell was awful.  If the players, the GM, or the coaches were "tanking" purposefully to get the 1st pick in the draft, it really backfired on them...'cause most of them aren't around now for the Luck years... 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    When they hired Curtis Painter, then Kerry Collins, and then kept Jim Caldwell they opened themselves up to that thinking.  I mean, If I put Painter on the Packers, and made Caldwell the coach they probably wouldn't win a game either.



    They drafted Curtis Painter.  He'd been on the roster for a couple years.  - That you or anyone else knew what he was prior to last season is a lie.  Remember how this board talked up your formerly great, now no longer a patriot back up, Hoyer.  Not much of a difference except for circumstances. 

    Jim Caldwell was hired for continuity's sake.  Same can be seen in the Belichick regime.  In 2 years Caldwell took the colts to the superbowl and playoffs.  Should they have fired him for that?  Should they have fired him midseason?  To then do what?  Were any others on the staff HC material?  What coaches not on the staff would have been available then?  Not Chuck Pagano.  Not Bruce Arians.  They were employed.  Should they have hired someone they didn't want?  Do you know that they never considered it?  What coach would have been available mid-season, and would they have taken the position if they thought the colts might go in another direction at the end of the season? 

    Kerry Collins was a starter in the NFL.  At the time, while I thought they should go with Painter, I thought Collins was a good idea.  Collins also played for Caldwell in college and was drafted by Polian.  the synergy made sense.  The colts, it is known, tried to get Hasselbeck.  He turned them down. 

    You kind of make my arguement for me.  if Caldwell was inept, yet they went to the superbowl with him, then weren't the colts failures last year largely due to Manning's absence?  How could the colts have forseen Manning being out a year when he'd never missed a game and played with the injury the prior year?



    Painter made one of the most famous debut's of all time against the Jets with a perfect season on the line and put together what was possibly the worst display of quarterbacking of all time.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Hoyer looked like a QB in the games he's played in, big difference.

     

    Their replacement was Collins who was 75 years old and couldn't manage to win a job from Vince Young. 

    Jim Caldwell captained the Colts to their worst season in a decade.  It was fairly obvious he was nothing more than a Switzer.  Yes, he should have been fired, at the time the Colts fans wanted him fired and I'm sure you remember this.  He was seen for what he was, a fried of Dungy's who's job was to do nothing and hope nobody noticed Dungy was gone and everything kept humming along.  But when it went down hill everyone knew he wasn't the man to fix it.

     

    Call it gross ineptitude but the moves sound like Major League with the owner scouring prisons to find the worst starting pitcher.  Just amazingly poor preparation and they made no effort to find a decent QB. 

     

    Orton hits the waiver wire and they do nothing.  I don't think they tanked, but moves like that sure make it hard to sell the story of how hard they were trying.




    Shen,

    Lets not forget that the majority of starters for the colts were pulled during that game, not just Peyton Manning. 

    Lets not forget that Vince Young was "the owners pick" and he made the call about who started.  Collins finished the season as the starter. 

    As for Caldwell, yes even local fans didn't think he was up to the job.  Sounds like plenty here don't think that McDaniels or the new DC are either.  That's what fans do.  But when the guy coaches the team to the SB and gets them to the playoffs the following year amidst a huge number of injuries, even Kraft is not firing the guy.  Further, you can suggest a midseason change was required, but everyone knew Manning's loss was huge.  The colts were competitive in a number of games, and the only way firing the HC makes sense is if someone currently at the job is capable of taking the reigns.  The colts had lost over the prior couple of years, their OC, DC, and Oline coach.  These were their most experienced guys. 

    Polian's elevation of his son to GM is real problem and that is the opinion of many who followed the team.  Some say his son ran off a number of the staff and really hurt the team.  The loss of Manning simply exposed all of this.  It was a perfect storm of sorts. 

    Interestingly, this argument, hinges on the fact that the colts are successful this year.  We've benefitted from a really easy schedule and some good fortune.  Our defense is still ranked last in the league.  We have a really bad oline.  We have marginal running backs.  We have one phenomenal veteran receiver.  The rest are rookies or young fringe players.  Our rookie QB is completing less than 60% of his passes. 

    At 6-3 some power rankings still have the colts in the 20's. 

    What the colts have been is the beneficiary of some good fortune with the schedule against some really bad offenses and teams. 

    Beat your drum if it makes you happy, but rational thinkers understand the validity of my points.




    Guy, c'mon.  Nobody thought Painter should be in the NFL.  This isn't just the normal background rumbling.  He was seen as worse than Jamarcus Russel, worse than Sanchez, his name had become synonymous with poor play.

     

    And here's Caldwell's explanation for calling a timeout with time running out in the Jets playoff game when he managed to help the Jets improve from a 50 yard field goal to a 32 yarder to win the game-

    "I didn’t care. I was going to make sure that they couldn’t. Make them snap the ball. They were in field goal range,” Caldwell said. “We wanted to try to make them snap the ball as many times as they possibly could"

    That was a year prior, how can you not fire a guy who does something so dumb and backs it up with an even dumber explanation.

    The guy was amazingly incompetent.  Like I said, the only explanation other than tanking was being incompetent.  Which is probably what they were.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re:

    Wow...  I had forgotten just how bad painter was...  And this plays right into the brilliant strategy...  The key was to get off to a bad start.

    Once you establish the perception of ineptness people will start to buy into it.  Like Ud6.  Simple people.

    So management frontloads the pathetic QBs and plays up the Peyton " mystery" about will he come back.... Will he ever play again...(lol)... HOW MUCH HE MEANT TO THEIR TEAM.... remember that ?  the big distraction / illusion captivated the country while games were bumbled away.

    haven't heard much about Peyton's neck lately, have you?  Yikes he's after another MVP. 

     

     
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    Re:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

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    When they hired Curtis Painter, then Kerry Collins, and then kept Jim Caldwell they opened themselves up to that thinking.  I mean, If I put Painter on the Packers, and made Caldwell the coach they probably wouldn't win a game either.



    They drafted Curtis Painter.  He'd been on the roster for a couple years.  - That you or anyone else knew what he was prior to last season is a lie.  Remember how this board talked up your formerly great, now no longer a patriot back up, Hoyer.  Not much of a difference except for circumstances. 

    Jim Caldwell was hired for continuity's sake.  Same can be seen in the Belichick regime.  In 2 years Caldwell took the colts to the superbowl and playoffs.  Should they have fired him for that?  Should they have fired him midseason?  To then do what?  Were any others on the staff HC material?  What coaches not on the staff would have been available then?  Not Chuck Pagano.  Not Bruce Arians.  They were employed.  Should they have hired someone they didn't want?  Do you know that they never considered it?  What coach would have been available mid-season, and would they have taken the position if they thought the colts might go in another direction at the end of the season? 

    Kerry Collins was a starter in the NFL.  At the time, while I thought they should go with Painter, I thought Collins was a good idea.  Collins also played for Caldwell in college and was drafted by Polian.  the synergy made sense.  The colts, it is known, tried to get Hasselbeck.  He turned them down. 

    You kind of make my arguement for me.  if Caldwell was inept, yet they went to the superbowl with him, then weren't the colts failures last year largely due to Manning's absence?  How could the colts have forseen Manning being out a year when he'd never missed a game and played with the injury the prior year?



    Painter made one of the most famous debut's of all time against the Jets with a perfect season on the line and put together what was possibly the worst display of quarterbacking of all time.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Hoyer looked like a QB in the games he's played in, big difference.

     

    Their replacement was Collins who was 75 years old and couldn't manage to win a job from Vince Young. 

    Jim Caldwell captained the Colts to their worst season in a decade.  It was fairly obvious he was nothing more than a Switzer.  Yes, he should have been fired, at the time the Colts fans wanted him fired and I'm sure you remember this.  He was seen for what he was, a fried of Dungy's who's job was to do nothing and hope nobody noticed Dungy was gone and everything kept humming along.  But when it went down hill everyone knew he wasn't the man to fix it.

     

    Call it gross ineptitude but the moves sound like Major League with the owner scouring prisons to find the worst starting pitcher.  Just amazingly poor preparation and they made no effort to find a decent QB. 

     

    Orton hits the waiver wire and they do nothing.  I don't think they tanked, but moves like that sure make it hard to sell the story of how hard they were trying.




    Shen,

    Lets not forget that the majority of starters for the colts were pulled during that game, not just Peyton Manning. 

    Lets not forget that Vince Young was "the owners pick" and he made the call about who started.  Collins finished the season as the starter. 

    As for Caldwell, yes even local fans didn't think he was up to the job.  Sounds like plenty here don't think that McDaniels or the new DC are either.  That's what fans do.  But when the guy coaches the team to the SB and gets them to the playoffs the following year amidst a huge number of injuries, even Kraft is not firing the guy.  Further, you can suggest a midseason change was required, but everyone knew Manning's loss was huge.  The colts were competitive in a number of games, and the only way firing the HC makes sense is if someone currently at the job is capable of taking the reigns.  The colts had lost over the prior couple of years, their OC, DC, and Oline coach.  These were their most experienced guys. 

    Polian's elevation of his son to GM is real problem and that is the opinion of many who followed the team.  Some say his son ran off a number of the staff and really hurt the team.  The loss of Manning simply exposed all of this.  It was a perfect storm of sorts. 

    Interestingly, this argument, hinges on the fact that the colts are successful this year.  We've benefitted from a really easy schedule and some good fortune.  Our defense is still ranked last in the league.  We have a really bad oline.  We have marginal running backs.  We have one phenomenal veteran receiver.  The rest are rookies or young fringe players.  Our rookie QB is completing less than 60% of his passes. 

    At 6-3 some power rankings still have the colts in the 20's. 

    What the colts have been is the beneficiary of some good fortune with the schedule against some really bad offenses and teams. 

    Beat your drum if it makes you happy, but rational thinkers understand the validity of my points.




    Guy, c'mon.  Nobody thought Painter should be in the NFL.  This isn't just the normal background rumbling.  He was seen as worse than Jamarcus Russel, worse than Sanchez, his name had become synonymous with poor play.

     

    And here's Caldwell's explanation for calling a timeout with time running out in the Jets playoff game when he managed to help the Jets improve from a 50 yard field goal to a 32 yarder to win the game-

    "I didn’t care. I was going to make sure that they couldn’t. Make them snap the ball. They were in field goal range,” Caldwell said. “We wanted to try to make them snap the ball as many times as they possibly could"

    That was a year prior, how can you not fire a guy who does something so dumb and backs it up with an even dumber explanation.

    The guy was amazingly incompetent.  Like I said, the only explanation other than tanking was being incompetent.  Which is probably what they were.



    Really?  No one?  Because of half a game 15 performance in which most starters were sitting while playing a desparate jets team who eventually ended up in the AFCCG?  Hindsight's 20/20 and fandom makes people say things they otherwise never would.  Who would have suspected Painter was better than Russell or Sanchez?  Russell was a #1 pick and Sanchez is a 1st round pick and day one starter in the NFL.  Painter was a 6th round pick.   

    As for Caldwell, again I ask - are you firing a guy the season after taking a team to the superbowl and the playoffs?

    You know I give TP crap for his sky is falling thinking regarding the pats, but Shen, if you are honestly being serious, you would have fired Belichick for going 5-11 after his first year in 2000, and if that didn't do it, his non-playoff year in 02 after winning the SB the prior year surely would have done it. 

    Maybe you think you are yanking my chain, but frankly I having fun batting down whatever you toss up.

     
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    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Wow...  I had forgotten just how bad painter was...  And this plays right into the brilliant strategy...  The key was to get off to a bad start.

    Once you establish the perception of ineptness people will start to buy into it.  Like Ud6.  Simple people.

    So management frontloads the pathetic QBs and plays up the Peyton " mystery" about will he come back.... Will he ever play again...(lol)... HOW MUCH HE MEANT TO THEIR TEAM.... remember that ?  the big distraction / illusion captivated the country while games were bumbled away.

    haven't heard much about Peyton's neck lately, have you?  Yikes he's after another MVP. 

     



    take a debate class. You are just awful at this.

     
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