This SB should have been ours but we lost it at the draft. While GB was picking up Ragi, Matthews, Hawke and a host more, we traded down and got losers like Brace, Butler, and a host of others.
The championship years were the result of Bobby Grier drating TALENT! Guys like Law, McGinnest, Martin, T Johnson,Bruschi,
These are game changing STARS.
The only great player BB ever drafter was Seymour, but Big Sey wanted too much $ so BB went back to Filene's basement for mre 'bargains'!
Let someone else draft and stop this STUPID trading down!
Take the draft away from BB
-
Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 9:24 AM EST
- jader
- Posts: 604
- First: 3/19/2005
- Last: 6/16/2013
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Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 9:35 AM EST
- BBReigns
- Posts: 6215
- First: 10/19/2010
- Last: 4/13/2011
What grade are you in? -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 9:37 AM EST
- ma6dragon9
- Posts: 3889
- First: 1/31/2008
- Last: 6/16/2013
You're about 2 years too LATE with this nonsense.
Butler and Brace?
So you missed McCourty, Chung, Gronkowski, Vollmer, Spikes from 09/10?
Hawk widely has been viewed as a disappointment (still good, but not elite) considering the #10 pick used on him. Raji was taken high, and has lived up to that. People are split on Matthews actually being good, or being a juicer, the jury's still out on that one, but he has performed at an elite level, I'll grant that.
Seymour was the only star he's drafted? By the way, what has Seymour done to help the Raiders for the past 2 seasons? I love the guy, but honestly, has he helped them improve, as a TEAM, very much? As far as drafting stars:
Tom Brady?
Vince Wilfork?
Logan Mankins?
Matt Light?
Jerod Mayo?
Deion Branch, SB MVP who Seattle ponied up big dollars for?
Asante Samuel?
Any of the above mentioned rising stars?
Take your sour grapes elsewhere, or at least understand what you're talking about. Randy Moss was the kind of STAR power you want, how'd that work out? They stood pat to get a highly regarded RB in the 1st round...how'd THAT work out?
Traded down and got Wilfork. Traded down and got Mayo. Traded down and got McCourty.
There are more holes than substance in this drivel. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 9:41 AM EST
- ma6dragon9
- Posts: 3889
- First: 1/31/2008
- Last: 6/16/2013
I'm embarrassed to admit I actaully went and read a couple of Jader's previous posts. Either he's miserably depressed, or just miserable. Not a positive thing ever leaves his fingertips. "Troll" comes to mind, but I'm thinking he's really just a "The sky is falling....the end is near!....the grass is DEFINITELY greener..." Kinda person. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 9:48 AM EST
- niz-58
- Posts: 4496
- First: 5/10/2007
- Last: 8/16/2011
In Response to Take the draft away from BB:This SB should have been ours but we lost it at the draft. While GB was picking up Ragi, Matthews, Hawke and a host more, we traded down and got losers like Brace, Butler, and a host of others. The championship years were the result of Bobby Grier drating TALENT! Guys like Law, McGinnest, Martin, T Johnson,Bruschi, These are game changing STARS. The only great player BB ever drafter was Seymour, but Big Sey wanted too much $ so BB went back to Filene's basement for mre 'bargains'! Let someone else draft and stop this STUPID trading down!
Posted by jader
Is this going to be another post-and-run job from you, like the Brady Vs Sanchez thread?
Or are you going to actually grow a pair and defend your position?
I'm guessing it's the first opion. Pinhead. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 9:55 AM EST
- provpats
- Posts: 1063
- First: 5/21/2009
- Last: 6/3/2013
let's look at Bobby Grier's track
1993 Director pro scouting
1995 Director Player personnel
1997 VP Player Personnel
1994 Willie McGinest
1996 Bruschi
1995 Ty Law
1995 Curtis Martin
1995 Johnson
So how much of a role did Grier play in drafting these guys based upon his responsibilities? Maybe some work on Tedy but from his resume I would say his work on the others was limited
A little bit of research applied intelligently works wonders -
This post has been removed.
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Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 10:08 AM EST
- jrmccook
- Posts: 339
- First: 2/4/2006
- Last: 6/3/2013
yes, parcells drafted the players above.. we have the fabulous bobby grier to thank for great names like tebucky jones, chris canty, brandon mitchell, sedrick shaw, etc. Who drafts a guy who has a ceiling as a nickel back in round 1 and is proud of it.. that guy..1999 Rnd Name College Note 1 Damien Woody Boston College 1 Andy Katzenmoyer Ohio State 2 Kevin Faulk Louisiana State 3 Tony George Florida 4 J'Juan Cherry Arizona State suplapmental 5 Derrick Fletcher Baylor 6 Marcus Washington Colorado 7 Michael Bishop Kansas State 7 Sean Morey Brown 1998 Rnd Name College Note 1 Robert Edwards Georgia 1 Tebucky Jones Syracuse 2 Tony Simmons Wisconsin 2 Rod Rutledge Alabama 3 Chris Floyd Michigan 3 Greg Spires Florida State 4 Leonta Rheams Houston 5 Ron Merkerson Colorado 6 Harold Shaw Southern Mississippi 7 Jason Andersen Brigham Young 1997 Rnd Name College Note 1 Chris Canty Kansas State 2 Brandon Mitchell Texas A&M 3 Sedrick Shaw Iowa 3 Chris Carter Texas 4 Damon Denson Michigan 4 Ed Ellis Buffalo 5 Vernon Crawford Florida State 6 Tony Gaiter Miami (FL) 7 Scott Rehberg Central Michigan -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 10:15 AM EST
- BBReigns
- Posts: 6215
- First: 10/19/2010
- Last: 4/13/2011
It's hard to tell who picked what in the Grier/Parcells years. You could argue, the very good picks in the Parcells era were mostly Grier's since Parcells left mostly because he he couldn't have total control of the grocery shopping.
Parcells was gone by the 1997 draft, so I am not sure how anyone can say he was responsible for any draft after that.
The 1997 was awful and for good reason. Parcells up and left and took 90% of the organization with him like a slimeball.
I think back to what Herb Brooks said when he was picking the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team:
"I am not looking for the best players. I am looking for the right ones." -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 10:36 AM EST
- ShiningWizard
- Posts: 536
- First: 6/2/2008
- Last: 5/11/2012
Martin? -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 10:41 AM EST
- Caesar1177
- Posts: 417
- First: 5/12/2009
- Last: 10/16/2011
In Response to Re: Take the draft away from BB:You're about 2 years too LATE with this nonsense. Butler and Brace? So you missed McCourty, Chung, Gronkowski, Vollmer, Spikes from 09/10? Hawk widely has been viewed as a disappointment (still good, but not elite) considering the #10 pick used on him. Raji was taken high, and has lived up to that. People are split on Matthews actually being good, or being a juicer, the jury's still out on that one, but he has performed at an elite level, I'll grant that. Seymour was the only star he's drafted? By the way, what has Seymour done to help the Raiders for the past 2 seasons? I love the guy, but honestly, has he helped them improve, as a TEAM, very much? As far as drafting stars: Tom Brady? Vince Wilfork? Logan Mankins? Matt Light? Jerod Mayo? Deion Branch, SB MVP who Seattle ponied up big dollars for? Asante Samuel? Any of the above mentioned rising stars? Take your sour grapes elsewhere, or at least understand what you're talking about. Randy Moss was the kind of STAR power you want, how'd that work out? They stood pat to get a highly regarded RB in the 1st round...how'd THAT work out? Traded down and got Wilfork. Traded down and got Mayo. Traded down and got McCourty. There are more holes than substance in this drivel.
Posted by ma6dragon9Let's not forget BIG TIME contributors as well:GivensJarvis GreenKoppenEugene WilsonBethel Johnson (who did contribute in 2003)Dan graham -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 11:33 AM EST
- jrmccook
- Posts: 339
- First: 2/4/2006
- Last: 6/3/2013
Until the terry glenn draft in 96, parcells had the last word on all draft selections. In 96 kraft pulled the reins in on parcells and had a draft advisor in grier weigh his feelings on player personnel decisions with parcells, with grier having final say, thus why terry glenn was drafted despite parcells wanting willie anderson or regan upshaw at that selection. This led to the rift between parcells and bob kraft to widen and prompted parcells to leave and coach the jets from 97-99 (immediately following the season after glenn, but before the 97 draft which was all grier). This also led parcells to criticize glenn on every minor bump and injury, leading to parcells referring to glenn as she in the media. He made it clear it was not his choice to bring terry glenn to ne. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 11:36 AM EST
- portfolio1
- Posts: 1899
- First: 9/14/2006
- Last: 6/14/2013
The Pats were 14-2. They beat both SB teams. They have had double digits wins every year since the year after their first BB-TB SB. They had an undefeated regular season in 2007. They are a much younger team than the 2007 team. Unless Mars Attacks they will be one of the top few teams in the league next year and will be a SB favorite of many during the off-season.
BB oversees personnel. Not in a vacuum but the Pats don't get a player he doesn't want. They don't go in a direction he doesn't want. He has done an amazing job. Yes these last few years have ended in dissappointment. But they are an exceptional team.
I would rather have the Pats roster, the Pats FA situation and the Pats draft picks than the Jets. And than pretty much every team out there. You can make a case for Pit, for the Ravens and for GB. Not quite so good a case for anyone else. And only GB seems to have as complete a team.
You can critisize the fake punt and one or two points here and there but BB is as about as good as it gets. Now and over the last 90 years. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 12:18 PM EST
- MordecaiBloodmoon
- Posts: 1523
- First: 8/9/2012
- Last: 6/5/2013
jader, just a dumb post in general, absolutely clueless -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/7/2011 12:31 PM EST
- BBReigns
- Posts: 6215
- First: 10/19/2010
- Last: 4/13/2011
I also think Floyd Reese and Caserio have been great helping to stabilize the scouting/draft process since Pioli and Dimitrioff left.
Keep that in mind, too.
People want to bash BB's approach in 2006, 2007 and 2008, but only 2006 was a true poor draft on paper.
We've been over this a lot here lately, but BB has done a good job surrounding himself with quality minds helping to streamline the process, as he leaned on Pioli and Dimitrioff a lot by the sounds of things. It's hard to get that kind of continuity in personnel decisions.
With Pioli and Dimitrioff commiting to gigs elsewhere, this had an effect.
BB is now really getting back to having some stability within the organization. Not a coincidence.
Expect a knockout draft again. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 10:39 AM EST
- Dessalines
- Posts: 1349
- First: 7/9/2010
- Last: 1/4/2013
Jader, you're right. You should do it. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 1:14 PM EST
- laynard
- Posts: 78
- First: 1/5/2008
- Last: 4/13/2013
In Response to Re: Take the draft away from BB:Traded down and got Wilfork. Traded down and got Mayo. Traded down and got McCourty. There are more holes than substance in this drivel.
Posted by ma6dragon9Wilfork fell to them at 24, they got him in their original spot. I agree with your point though. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 1:19 PM EST
- ATJ
- Posts: 3114
- First: 8/31/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
In Response to Take the draft away from BB:This SB should have been ours but we lost it at the draft. While GB was picking up Ragi, Matthews, Hawke and a host more, we traded down and got losers like Brace, Butler, and a host of others. The championship years were the result of Bobby Grier drating TALENT! Guys like Law, McGinnest, Martin, T Johnson,Bruschi, These are game changing STARS. The only great player BB ever drafter was Seymour, but Big Sey wanted too much $ so BB went back to Filene's basement for mre 'bargains'! Let someone else draft and stop this STUPID trading down!
Posted by jader
Either uninformed blather or intentional provocation. Either way pfffft. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 2:28 PM EST
- Evil2010
- Posts: 2359
- First: 1/14/2010
- Last: 8/5/2011
In Response to Take the draft away from BB:This SB should have been ours but we lost it at the draft. While GB was picking up Ragi, Matthews, Hawke and a host more, we traded down and got losers like Brace, Butler, and a host of others. The championship years were the result of Bobby Grier drating TALENT! Guys like Law, McGinnest, Martin, T Johnson,Bruschi, These are game changing STARS. The only great player BB ever drafter was Seymour, but Big Sey wanted too much $ so BB went back to Filene's basement for mre 'bargains'! Let someone else draft and stop this STUPID trading down!
Posted by jader
Typical whining bandwagon fan. Everyone of your posts over the last 5 years is filled with attacks on Boston sports teams. Obviously you're either a troll posing as a fan of a typical bandwagon jumper who instantly became a fan after championships were won and now throws a temper tantrum because it doesn't happen every season. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 6:15 PM EST
- zbellino
- Posts: 8833
- First: 3/20/2006
- Last: 6/18/2013
This team missed Ron Brace in the playoffs.Butler even came on at the end of the season.NE is rebuilding.GB got Raji et al, because they were terrible and picked high. Thus they got a few big pieces. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 6:35 PM EST
- mthurl
- Posts: 7191
- First: 1/31/2010
- Last: 6/18/2013
It's funny when people mention Boby Grier...terrible, awful, disgrace, etc. He drafted some good players, Kevin Faulk, Terry Glenn, Milloy, Robert Edwards, Tebucky. Did he miss on some? Heck yeah, they all do, it's a crap shoot. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 7:03 PM EST
- Rocky
- Posts: 7527
- First: 6/4/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
Comment Jader??????????If not Gronkowski, then Olsen?
February, 8, 2011 By Mike ReissOne of the Patriots' offseason goals following the 2009 season was to overhaul the tight end position.
They were wildly successful in doing so, signing free-agent Alge Crumpler and then drafting Rob Gronkowski (second round) and Aaron Hernandez (fourth round).
Yet had the Patriots not landed the top prospect on their board in both categories of tight end, they reportedly had another possibility lined up. As reported by Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune, the Patriots had been in talks with the Bears on a possible trade.
Writes Biggs, "The Bears thought they had a deal lined up with New England going into draft weekend, a trade that would have netted them a second-round draft pick in return [for Greg Olsen], but the Patriots drafted Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez and solved their need that way." -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 7:51 PM EST
- JohnHannahrulz
- Posts: 3115
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 6/18/2013
Both Russ and ZB make good points. The Pats braintrust has to make trades to get high picks (Mayo, Seymour) because they routinely win 10 games or more (putting them in the 20s as a draft position). The Pats don't get a shot at player like Suh unless they lose or trade a boatload of players or picks. That's how the system works when you win. So far, IMO, Caesario, Reese and Belichick have done a very good job with the draft. If last year is any indication this team might be better than Pioli, Dmitroff and BB.
So let's say you want Suh and thus an instant pass rush. Do you trade McCourty, Spikes and Hernandez to get him ? That's a 1st, a 2nd and 4th to get one player many considered to be the best D linemen to come out in a decade. So yeah the price would be steep.
The draft is at best a crapshoot. The only criticism I might have is that Belichick didn't start the rebuilding process earlier. But he has the rings and I don't so, as I always say, there is always the possibility that Belichick knows way more about football than you and I (and all the posters here). -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 9:21 PM EST
- Davedsone
- Posts: 4361
- First: 8/9/2008
- Last: 5/16/2013
In Response to Take the draft away from BB:This SB should have been ours but we lost it at the draft. While GB was picking up Ragi, Matthews, Hawke and a host more, we traded down and got losers like Brace, Butler, and a host of others. The championship years were the result of Bobby Grier drating TALENT! Guys like Law, McGinnest, Martin, T Johnson,Bruschi, These are game changing STARS. The only great player BB ever drafter was Seymour, but Big Sey wanted too much $ so BB went back to Filene's basement for mre 'bargains'! Let someone else draft and stop this STUPID trading down!
Posted by jaderYou are too stupid to post, even here. Stop it. -
Re: Take the draft away from BB
posted at 2/8/2011 11:28 PM EST
- BostonTrollSpanker
- Posts: 4668
- First: 9/2/2009
- Last: 6/19/2013
I like how jader posted and then ran from this thread knowing full well he had pushed the envelope of sheer idiocy and couldn't possibly defend his incoherent babbling.I love this "Super Bowl should have been ours" junk.Heard of parity? What makes your needs as a fan so special, so much more important than Packers fans? Steelers fans?Ignore.