Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Since this is the ongoing debate here at BDC, I want to take a look at each playoff game from 2007 - present and just review Brady's performances and how they affected the team in W or L....


    2007: Historic Regular Season (16-0, 50 TDs, blah, blah)


    Div: 31-20 Win vs. Jacksonville- Brady: 26/28 262Yds 3Tds 97.6QBR



    • This game was an amazing performance by Brady. He spread the ball everywhere this game and Maroney actually ran well so the entire offense was clicking this day. Long drives and TDs.


    AFCCG: 21-12 Win vs. San Diego- Brady: 22/33 209Yds 2Tds 3Ints 18.6 QBR



    • No doubt, this game was BAD on Brady's part. some bad red zone interceptions made this game a lot closer than it had to be, but thankfully the defense was good then and made stops and forced TOs and Maroney ran the ball well again this day too. But, definitely a tough day for TB


    SB42: 17-14 Loss vs. NYG- Brady: 29/48 262Yds 1Td 53.8 QBR



    • Say what you want, but Brady led this offense, that struggled all day, downfield to a score with less than 3 minutes remaining to give a 14-10 lead. Outside of the horrible Asante drop (which gives nightmares) and the Tyree catch (worse nightmares), this team goes 19-0 and makes insane history. Anyways, Maroney was far less effective this game, only a 2.6YPC avg compared to the 5+ he had the previous games. Also, Brady took 5 sacks in this game, while he took 3 combined in the other two playoff games. The run game fell apart, and the offensive line was horrible. Brady couldn't control the OL and RB performance but did his job in leaving the field in the 4th with a lead.


    2009: (10-6)


    Div. 33-14 Loss vs. Baltimore- Brady: 23/42 154Yds 2Tds 3Ints 4.6 QBR



    • While I thought this team had no SB chance anyway because they sucked all year, Brady had a horrible game, but the game didn't start off well when Rice took it to the house play 1. Then the OL totally broke down and Suggs had the FF on TB leading to a 14-0 lead for Balt. like 2 mins in. This game was out of hand, while Brady did play bad, this game was sorry all around. The team came out flat and got killed.


    2010: (14-2, #1 seed, TB unanimous MVP)


    Div. 28-21 vs. Jets - Brady: 29/45 299 2Tds 1Int 8.9 QBR



    • This was another game that sucked. The offense couldn't do anything to sustain a competent drive, while the defense made Sanchez look GOOD. 16/25 165 3tds for him, that's horrible and the D couldn't stop the run. Brady was sacked 5 times this game too, showing the OL weakness again. There was no deep threat on this team, so the Jets kept everything in front and sent the dogs at Brady. Blame who you want, but the OL sucked, the run game sucked, Brady sucked, the defense sucked, coaching sucked.


    2011: (13-3, #1 seed)


    Div. 45-10 Win vs. Denver- Brady: 26/34 363Yds 6Tds 1Int 95.1 QBR



    • Well, I always thought this Denver team sucked... so I wasn't surprised to see the Pats win handedly. But, Brady and the offense's performance was amazing. 6Tds even against the crap D is very hard. Notice how Brady WAS NOT sacked in this game either while our Defense actually had 5 sacks and made stops! We were so much better than this crap team so everyone looked good.  


    AFCCG 23-20 Win vs. Baltimore- Brady: 22/36 239Yds 0Tds (1 Rush) 2Ints 59.6 QBR



    • There was a lot of luck involved for the Pats in this one to win (the Lee Evans drop, and the Cundiff whiff).. but that was after a couple of horrible decisions on Brady's part. Spikes had a big Int then a play later Brady decided to whip a deep one into double coverage that was picked off... horrible play. Then when getting the ball again with little time left, the offense went 3 and out giving Balt. a huge chance.... Brady even said so himself after this game "I sucked out there" which in my opinion, he did. Tough day for TB.


    SB 21-17 Loss vs. NYG - Brady: 27/41 276Yds 2Tds 1Int 70.3 QBR



    • Brady played a very good game on this day. He set a record for consecutive completions. But the negatives, he had the safety early, which was such a weird play and was kinda BS. Later on, on a 3rd down he sent a bomb deep downfield to a very injured Gronk which was picked off. While one could say, well nothing was open so Brady pretty much punted with that throw, it still was a boneheaded throw. Brady played a very good game here though. If Welker didn't drop the pass that hit him dead in the hands, the Patriots win the game and Brady is MVP again. The offense left the defense with THE LEAD again in this game and they could not get a stop. Brady played well.


    2012: (12-4, #2 seed)


    Div. 41-28 Win vs. Houston - Brady: 25/40 344Yds 3Tds 0Int 76.4 QBR



    • Brady played another great game here. The Patriot own the Texans at this point and did what they wanted out there winning the game easily. Brady killed it.


    AFCCG: 28-13 Loss vs. Baltimore - Brady: 29/54 320Yds 1Td 2Ints 40.2 QBR



    • Once Talib went out, I thought this was over. The defense couldn't stop Balt, but in reality, while the offense was able to move in between the 20s fine, they couldn't convert in the redzone especially at the end of the first half where the team settled for a FG when they had a chance at 7. Brady had one garbage time pick and another BAD one. The team was still in it to win, but then Bernard Pollard f'd up ridley and put a damper on it. Another huge Welker drop was big too. Brady's play- ehhh no.


    2013: (12-4)


    Div. 43-22 Win vs. Colts - Brady: 13/25 175Yds 0Tds 0Ints 75.1 QBR



    • We all remember this one vividly and the defense was a key cog here forcing a lot of TOs and applying a lot of pressure and the run game was unstoppable here making Brady's job very easy as a game manager. He made the throws he had to and did just fine. The rest of the team did the winning work.


    AFCCG 26-16 Loss vs. Denver - Brady: 24/38 277Yds 1Td 0Int 66.1 QBR



    • The run game in this game was nonexistent. The gameplan was weird (Slater?!?) and the OL didn't help much. Brady had a couple of BAD misses to Edelman and Collie on deep balls that could've changed the game, but once again, once Talib went out with injury, this game was over. The defense was beyond decimated at this point and Manning went untouched all game. Dennard was overmatched vs. Thomas and the D couldn't handle the run either. The defense couldn't get off of the field to save its life. Denver slowed down and killed clock. Even if the offense put up 28, Denver would've put up 35-40 on us easily. I don't even touch Brady for blame on this one, as Gronk was hurt and the defense was nonexistent through injuries.


     


    So, turning around and rating Brady's performances as winner, loser or even.... I'd score it as:


    Winner: 5 ('07 Div, SB42, '11 Div., SB46, '12 Div,)


    Loser: 4 ('07 AFCCG, '09 Div., '10 Div, '11 AFCCG)


    Even: 3 ('12 AFCCG, '13 Div., '13 AFCCG)


     


    So for me, in my objective eye, I give him a 5-4-3 record. He has had some amazing performances and some pretty bad ones at times. I think a lot has to be said about the defense and OL protection over these years.


    In both SB's, Brady left the field with the lead for the defense to make a stop and the Pats are world champs. That sucks. Also in SB42 the protection was horrible and so was the run game, which needs to be looked at too. The Pats ran the ball well in only a few of these playoff games. Whether its on the coaches gameplan or just them seeing the OL sucks that day and they cant run it.


    But, one thing's for certain, this team isn't who it is every year, a contender, without Brady. Some years, 2009 & 2013, there wasn't much around him. Some years, 2007 & 2011, he had amazing talent around and couldn't do it for defensive reasons. Brady hasn't been the same Brady from 2001-2004 in postseasons, but he's still a GOAT QB and the guy I want with the ball when it counts most.


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Solid breakdown and definitely agree with your point. It was a good idea to list all of the playoff games together, making it easier to step back and look at the big picture. I agree that a common theme to our losses has been poor defense. Not to say Brady shouldn't shoulder some of the blame, but in the games where our offense has sputtered, the main problem has often been a combination of bad O-Line play and lack of offensive weapons rather than Brady just puking all over himself like Peyton did in the Super Bowl.


    When you're going up against top flight defenses in the playoffs, having Julian Edelman or Wes Welker as your top target just isn't going to cut it. Misfortune plays a pretty major role too, namely missing Gronk in 3 (three!) straight postseasons. Do you think Peyton could've even gotten close to the Super Bowl without Demaryius? Rodgers without Jennings? Flacco without Torrey Smith or Anquan Boldin? It's actually a wonder that Brady can even win any playoff games with the minimal receiving talent that he has had to work with, while trying to compensate for the very average to poor defense that we've fielded the past few years. The fact that he's taken the team to the AFCCG (and a Super Bowl) the past three seasons without Gronk is absolutely incredible.


    I really think that Brady overachieves with the guys he has to work with during the regular season, then gets "exposed" in the playoffs. If Brady's going to win another Super Bowl, unless our defense suddenly becomes Seattle elite, it'll require at least a healthy Gronk and hopefully a few other guys (like Dobson) can step up.


     


    EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I'm impressed/amazed by what Brady has done in the postseason these past three years. Yeah, he lost some tough games, but the fact that he was even there without his top weapon in Gronk is unbelievable. No other QB could've done that. None. Rodgers, Brees, Manning? They couldn't even win one playoff game two years in a row, and they're loaded on offense.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimbob500. Show jimbob500's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    I would overall agree with the comments here. We all know that Brady is awesome and leads this team, but it's hard to deny the recent playoff struggles. Maybe it's the OL, maybe it's the defense and maybe it's the talent around Brady but the fact is this team hasn't won a Title in 10 years and there needs to be blame somewhere. I put it on everyone collectively 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-bilbo. Show Pats-bilbo's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    There is another scorecard needed for coaching.....


    In the 2001-2004 time frame, we always made a lot of in game adjustments. Some would argue that this is due to Spygate but I think it was because we had very high caliber assistant coaches in Weiss and Crenel.


    In the time since then, with BB mentoring his own staff and IMHO trying to shoulder too much of the load, we don't make adjustments as well. Our game plans don't always work in the big game and we are more predictable than we use to be.


    There is no doubt in my mind that Brady is not the same quarterback as back then. In some ways he sees more understands more and can make adjustments at the line of scrimmage, but I also think he is a little more skittish than he used to be and does not use all his receivers as much as he used to. Ever since the injury he seems to want out when the pressure comes. I don't want another quarterback leading the team, I think he is a top 5 quarterback and I am not bashing him but I do think his post season play is not as clutch as it used to be.


    It would be interesting to rate all the wins in 2001-2004 and see how he played. I bet the record is not much different for him personally but others on the team also came through in the pinch. We won Super Bowls without blowing teams out, we won them by performing at the end. We lost Super Bowls for lack of performance at the end of the game. Probably realistically looking at the difference. The games we won we had the ball the last time, the ones we lost we did not.


    3 straight AFC championship games, winning-est quarterback of all time and has led or held the yardage and completion percentage records a few times. Yeah.... Brady suxs.


    I hope that the improvements in D, the gelling of our WR and the health of injured players leads us to the Super Bowl in 2015 and we win again so all the Brady is done stuff will end.


    We read an article showing Tom to have a high work ethic, trying to perfect his craft and all we get out of it is "he can't throw as well to the left".... guess what he has two sides and one of them has to be the weaker one. Did it say he throws left weaker than 31 other quarterbacks, no it did not.


    Coaching and D play have contributed to losses as much if not more than Brady did. What took us so long to adjust to Giants D in the two Super Bowl losses?


    <br/><p>--- " I am a happy fan, a proud fan and I want us to win every game 28-0 but as long as we win, the team is united and has a sense of respect to the community and the game I will be a patriots fan and damn proud of it." ---- signed a pats fan from middle earth</p>

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Very solid assessment.  My opinion is that you can't always blame one guy or just the defense.  It's a team sport.  The key to most of the playoff losses is the OL.  When the OL breaks down, Brady is going to struggle.  He's strictly a pocket passer and needs that clean pocket to make his reads and make the plays he wants.  For those in here that love Brady and think he can do no wrong, blame the OL more than the defense.  And for the few who think Brady sucks balls, again...blame the OL. 

     

    Yes, Brady makes mistakes.  God knows what the hell he was thinking with that deep pass to Slater in the AFC title game against B-more that we barely won and that awful pass to an injured Gronk in Super Bowl XLVI.  This team needs a healthy Gronk to win.  The defense needs to be healthy.  But the key is Gronk and the OL not folding like a cheap suit come playoff time. If Gronk was healthy in Super Bowl XLVI, no question Pats win.  If he was there in the AFC title game in January 2013, Pats convert more red zone opportunities.  Lots of what ifs but that's how it goes.  If the defense stays healthy and improves with Revis and Browner in the secondary (which I expect they will) and Gronk is healthy for the post season, there are no excuses.  Like Jake Taylor said in Major League, "Win the whole f---ing thing!"

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

     

    Lots of things contribute to wins and losses.  Brady does make some mistakes as does every player no matter how great, but if you think Brady is the only problem with the team in the playoffs--or even the major problem--you probably ought to lay off the hard liquor when the game's on . . .

     

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

     

     Oh, and for the record, the primary problems I've seen in the past few years when the Pats have lost have been (depending on game, because it varies from game to game):

    • Poor pass defense (rush and coverage)
    • Lack of athleticism on the O line
    • Injuries to key players
    • Lack of diversity or depth among the so-called skill positions (often exacerbated by injuries)

    I think the coaching is fine.  I'm not in the camp that thinks the Pats still haven't recovered (10 years later) from the loss of Weis and Crennel or call too many pass plays.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Just look at how many games are on that list.  Every year we seem to be playing deep into the playoffs.  That is incredibly hard to do in the NFL.  Brady is incredible.  We are such lucky fans to have him playing for our team.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is another scorecard needed for coaching.....

     

    In the 2001-2004 time frame, we always made a lot of in game adjustments. Some would argue that this is due to Spygate but I think it was because we had very high caliber assistant coaches in Weiss and Crenel.

     

    In the time since then, with BB mentoring his own staff and IMHO trying to shoulder too much of the load, we don't make adjustments as well. Our game plans don't always work in the big game and we are more predictable than we use to be.

     

    There is no doubt in my mind that Brady is not the same quarterback as back then. In some ways he sees more understands more and can make adjustments at the line of scrimmage, but I also think he is a little more skittish than he used to be and does not use all his receivers as much as he used to. Ever since the injury he seems to want out when the pressure comes. I don't want another quarterback leading the team, I think he is a top 5 quarterback and I am not bashing him but I do think his post season play is not as clutch as it used to be.

     

    It would be interesting to rate all the wins in 2001-2004 and see how he played. I bet the record is not much different for him personally but others on the team also came through in the pinch. We won Super Bowls without blowing teams out, we won them by performing at the end. We lost Super Bowls for lack of performance at the end of the game. Probably realistically looking at the difference. The games we won we had the ball the last time, the ones we lost we did not.

     

    3 straight AFC championship games, winning-est quarterback of all time and has led or held the yardage and completion percentage records a few times. Yeah.... Brady suxs.

     

    I hope that the improvements in D, the gelling of our WR and the health of injured players leads us to the Super Bowl in 2015 and we win again so all the Brady is done stuff will end.

     

    We read an article showing Tom to have a high work ethic, trying to perfect his craft and all we get out of it is "he can't throw as well to the left".... guess what he has two sides and one of them has to be the weaker one. Did it say he throws left weaker than 31 other quarterbacks, no it did not.

     

    Coaching and D play have contributed to losses as much if not more than Brady did. What took us so long to adjust to Giants D in the two Super Bowl losses?

     

    <br/><p>--- " I am a happy fan, a proud fan and I want us to win every game 28-0 but as long as we win, the team is united and has a sense of respect to the community and the game I will be a patriots fan and damn proud of it." ---- signed a pats fan from middle earth</p>

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Great post, and a good thread. BB's coaching cupboard has been plucked too many times. Players become "good" or "great" in a large part due to great coaching. Positional coaches, assistant coaches etc..who work on an individual basis get the most out of players. I think newer inexperienced coaches have had a negative impact on the biggest stage when playing for all the marbles. 

    Our defense has been a disappointment on the whole during the rebuild until 2012 when it finally started to turn a corner but was decimated with injuries the last 2 years, but the offense was a machine for the majority of every year until they get to the biggest games. Then the 35 ppg offense scores 15.5 ppg in the last 6 playoff losses!

    That is a colossal failure on many levels. Blaming Brady, or the O line, or the receivers, or the running backs is only partially accurate. They are all to blame but the fundamental offensive philosophy of forcing our offense down a defense's throats no matter what is happening has been the real issue. Predictable, pass heavy, finesse offense who no longer takes what the defense gives( screens, check downs, utilizing the 3rd TE or the FB position, trick plays, power running which is willing to take 3-4 yards is no longer a part of this offense) Everything is down field and going through the reads to see who gets open against 7 defenders. This results in sacks, interceptions, and 3 and outs.

    15.5 ppg scored in 6 straight playoff losses, 285 pass attempts to 113 rushes. 66 power runs and 47 scat back runs is a finesse offense and with our offensive line playing on it's heels the majority of the time against great defensive lines like the Giants and Ravens yes we set our offense up for failure. 

    You cannot just look at the results of the games and say this guy sucked or that guy sucked. You have to look at the reasons why great players or great positional groupings like the QB, the O line or the receiving cast fails on the biggest stage. You either think it is a coincidence that great players suddenly suck or you realize this is a coaches league and only the best coached teams play well on the biggest stage. We have a great coach who almost stands alone at this point. He is a victim of his own success. I hope the continuity of our young coaching staff can help this year. 

    But to say we do not have talent or our players suck after watching them dominate all season is an unrealistic view point imo. There is a reason good teams play poorly in the post season, and it isn't dumb luck. It is when the other team out coaches you and in turn out plays you.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    I would agree TC on what you said.

    The Pats just haven't brought their 'A' game for an entire playoffs. Either the offense has sputtered or the defense cannot make a timely stop, whatever the case this is a team game and the team hasn't done enough to win 3 games in Jan/Feb.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would agree TC on what you said.

    The Pats just haven't brought their 'A' game for an entire playoffs. Either the offense has sputtered or the defense cannot make a timely stop, whatever the case this is a team game and the team hasn't done enough to win 3 games in Jan/Feb.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think they were lucky to get to the AFC title game in January.  Amazing coaching and depth helped this team get far but there were just too many injuries to key players.

     
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    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to DoNotSleepOnThePats' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I think they were lucky to get to the AFC title game in January.  Amazing coaching and depth helped this team get far but there were just too many injuries to key players.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would disagree with that.. I don't think they were lucky to get to the AFCCG. They were a top 4 team in the NFL even with all the injuries which goes to show their depth and coaching.

    Lucky would've been beating Denver without Talib too. that would've been a huge upset. That team was vastly superior to us after we sustained all of the casualties.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In the last 3 years the Patriots have yet to field a reasonably healthy team for the playoffs. This can obviously effect the outcome of games where the level of competition is higher and the margin of error smaller. 


    For the 2007 SB loss; the offensive line may have been weak, but the Giants defensive line played exceptionally well from the 3 quarter on with batted passes and balls overthrown it was clear that, even when Brady was not getting sacked, the Giants were applying enough pressure to minimize any kind of rhythm Brady and the offense had established.  This game and the 2009 Ravens game Brady looked clearly rattled. Some people will say not clutch, others will be blame both the offense and the defense. In 2009, I still felt BB was at the beginning of the rebuilding process and growing pains were evident. More recently the team has been decimated by the losses of key players (Gronk, Hernandez, WRs, Wilfork, Talib etc...).  This team has to be healthy to win in the post-season (a truth that applies to all teams).  To grade or examine only Brady's performance in the post-season is misguided; you have to look at the team performance in totality. Regrettably. some look at the end result only to assess a team. In order for this team to excel in the post-season the have to play great situational football in all facets of the game. As such it seems unreasonable to assess a team from only one position.


    Winning consistently in a league that is structured to create parity is very difficult and yet every year I am cautiously optimistic about the Pats chances due in large part to the talent they have assembled and trained acumen of the coaching staff.  Very grateful that this team has continued to succeed, despite various departures and unforeseen events.


     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just look at how many games are on that list.  Every year we seem to be playing deep into the playoffs.  That is incredibly hard to do in the NFL.  Brady is incredible.  We are such lucky fans to have him playing for our team.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Incredible in afc title games and SBs?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    When Brady plays well in the playoffs it's because the other team sux. When Brady plays average or below average in the playoffs it's because Brady sux. *rustbag logic*

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Incredible in afc title games and SBs?

    [/QUOTE]

    He was great in SB 46 and fine in SB 42

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Not a bad overall assessment. SOme good spme bad and some fair. For those here who throw him under the bus when talking about playoffs since 2007 consider how well Manning has done in the playoffs when the opposing D has been good and his O line not able to give him extra time... Take last year's SB for example. The difference between Brady and Manning is that Brady still has a shot and often even a lead late in the game. Manning dies a thousands deaths.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Nice thread and I think you are pretty spot on. Super Bowl 46 is a prime example - I've heard one guy say he played poorly in that game - the truth is he would be the Super Bowl MVP had we won (easily).

    I think if you did a similar breakdown of his earlier years you'd see that his performance hasn't been far off now, from those years. He threw back breaking (and potentially devastating) picks in the Super Bowl against Carolina and Philly. In fact against Philly the offense generated almost nothing for points heading into the third quarter. Against Carolina he had a devastating pick that could of cost us the game, but those Patriot teams were different then, we had defense...we had players around Brady. Take a look at the first Super Bowl we won...how much of that victory was because of him?  He threw for one touchdown...then did basically nothing for three quarters before leading the team to a last minute 40 yard drive that resulted in a field goal.

    People forget he was on better teams then, I haven't. And people forget that we DID get lucky on quite a few occasions too.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    Any assessment of Brady's postseason play must account for the play of the rest of the team as well.

    The great majority of the time, Brady has been the absolute best player on the field in the postseason. Unfortunately, we have had some epically awful contributions from the rest of the team.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice thread and I think you are pretty spot on. Super Bowl 46 is a prime example - I've heard one guy say he played poorly in that game - the truth is he would be the Super Bowl MVP had we won (easily).

    I think if you did a similar breakdown of his earlier years you'd see that his performance hasn't been far off now, from those years. He threw back breaking (and potentially devastating) picks in the Super Bowl against Carolina and Philly. In fact against Philly the offense generated almost nothing for points heading into the third quarter. Against Carolina he had a devastating pick that could of cost us the game, but those Patriot teams were different then, we had defense...we had players around Brady. Take a look at the first Super Bowl we won...how much of that victory was because of him?  He threw for one touchdown...then did basically nothing for three quarters before leading the team to a last minute 40 yard drive that resulted in a field goal.

    People forget he was on better teams then, I haven't. And people forget that we DID get lucky on quite a few occasions too.

    [/QUOTE]


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    Exactly!!!!!!!!!

    The team was much better.  MUCH!

    2001 play-offs they scored 16 against Oakland and WON

    2003 P/O's       they scored 17 against Tenn and WON

    2004 P/O's        they scored 20 against Indy and WON!

    2005                 they scored 13 against Den and LOST 

    2006, they scored 34 and lost.  (just thought I'd throw that in there)  But very relative, to the D's DECLINE.

    All those games were below the league average in points and they actually had a full card of possessions to work with.  Oh and for tc (rusty clone)  That averages 16.5 points per game.

    And don't want to hear that crap about points per game being lower back then, because it's a lie.  Points per game remained stagnant for the decade and raised about 2 points in 2010.

    The recent losses and low scores were more a reflection of reduced possessions because the D loved playing so much, they never wanted to leave the field.

     

    Being on the field for 20 minutes a game, with 7 or 8 possessions total will NEVER produce a lot of points.

    The D needs to quit being so selfish, in order to pad their stats with t/o's (that they never got) and let the O play.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from m. a. pat. Show m. a. pat's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Any assessment of Brady's postseason play must account for the play of the rest of the team as well.

    The great majority of the time, Brady has been the absolute best player on the field in the postseason. Unfortunately, we have had some epically awful contributions from the rest of the team.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree. People need to look at the whole team. In the recent losses, the offensive and defensive lines have been pushed around and been unable to either adequately protect Brady and get some push for the running game or generate pressure on the opposing QB's.

    The Pats can get by with this in the regular season and get 11 - 12 wins due in large part to the division they play in. The deeper they get in the playoffs the tougher the opposition becomes and these weaknesses get exposed.

    I don't think it's a coincidence BB picked 3 offensive and 2 defensive linemen in the past draft.

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Any assessment of Brady's postseason play must account for the play of the rest of the team as well.

    The great majority of the time, Brady has been the absolute best player on the field in the postseason. Unfortunately, we have had some epically awful contributions from the rest of the team.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's exactly what I did. Talked about the rest of the team's play as well


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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice thread and I think you are pretty spot on. Super Bowl 46 is a prime example - I've heard one guy say he played poorly in that game - the truth is he would be the Super Bowl MVP had we won (easily).

    I think if you did a similar breakdown of his earlier years you'd see that his performance hasn't been far off now, from those years. He threw back breaking (and potentially devastating) picks in the Super Bowl against Carolina and Philly. In fact against Philly the offense generated almost nothing for points heading into the third quarter. Against Carolina he had a devastating pick that could of cost us the game, but those Patriot teams were different then, we had defense...we had players around Brady. Take a look at the first Super Bowl we won...how much of that victory was because of him?  He threw for one touchdown...then did basically nothing for three quarters before leading the team to a last minute 40 yard drive that resulted in a field goal.

    People forget he was on better teams then, I haven't. And people forget that we DID get lucky on quite a few occasions too.

    [/QUOTE]

    False. I said he had an atrocious 4th qtr, which he did.  You can't show up for half a game, all entitled and say "hey, I am Brady, this game is mine", and then crap yourself.

    He did it in SB 42, too. Burress talked crap, Brady took the bait and he failed miserably.  

    If you had ONE friend who was not a Pats fan, you'd actually get that Brady is mocked nationwide for that and further collapses.

    Uneven games from him are not "great" performances.  

    It's very clear who the pink hats are here.  He was great in the SB wins. Not so much in the losses. VERY CLEAR and VERY SIMPLE.

    Just look at the above excuses for him. It's always the line playing poorly or one or two scapegoats to deflect from him.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Incredible in afc title games and SBs?

    [/QUOTE]

    He was great in SB 46 and fine in SB 42

    [/QUOTE]

    He was absolutely not great at all. That Safety was embarrassing and the INT on 1st down to start the 4th for no reason with the high throw to Welker were all catastrophic poor plays from him.

    That's not greatness. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Taking a hard look at Brady'a postseason: 2007-Pres.

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He was absolutely not great at all. That Safety was embarrassing and the INT on 1st down to start the 4th for no reason with the high throw to Welker were all catastrophic poor plays from him.

    That's not greatness.

    [/QUOTE]

    He left the field with a lead for the defense. and stfuu about the Welker play, WW catches that ball 99/100 times, I don't know how you blame him for that. If it hits your hands, catch the damn thing. Yeah he had two bad plays but also put the team in a position to win.
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