Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    I agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    I agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.



    Let's hope the coaching and defensive play calling is as aggressive as some fans would like. Still need to be opportunistic and excel w/ takeaways.  Offense has to minimize their turnovers; especially come playoff time.


    The defense have to be able to make big plays and get off the field when needed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    It's the middle of Talib's fifth year.  If he started for Tampa then he can play Tampa-2 by now.  In any case he's a cover corner -- just stick with one receiver and don't worry about the defensive scheme.

    The guy flunked three marijuana tests in college.  He puts Aaron Hernandez to shame.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    Yes, only BB has to deal with injuries. No other team does. You sure are smart, Babe. You keep telling me to learn the game, but it's always on the heels of BB doing something positive for the team.

    Hmm.

    Your trolling is gone too far.   If you hate BB this much, please finally get help and move on.




    C'mon junior. You act as if he has some great DBs on the injured list or something. LMAO@U

     

    Where do you get this I hate BB BS? His drafting is subject to criticism. That's all I have said. I think there are plenty who agree with that at this point.

    At least I don't infest the board daily with idiotic complaints about his coaching like you do.




    Just more crusty logic.  First he disses the pick saying it's more than just a name on a jersey then it's a brilliant move by BB in the next breath.  Must lose track of which personality he is from moment to moment.

    Oh and the drugs are no big deal and Goodells fault.  Twisted crusty logic, indeed.




    Look at the bright side. At least he's not telling us the defense is good, like he did all last year.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    I agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.




    No offense, but we don't consistently get burnt on the long ball. That was the new this year in like 3 games, 1 with replacement refs with phantom PI.

    Just saying.

    Mark my words: This whole secondary media crap drama will be buried, quick.  Hopefully, everyone is healthy come postseason, but don't expect this rhetoric to last.

    How can BB pay for CBs when has most of the money invested in the offense at the same cap limit as 2009? Brady wasn't making the money he makes now as he did then. Nor does Mankins.

    Please try to use logic.



    I know that Patriots have allowed 10 passing TDs of 20 yards or more... I believe that is the highest in the league. I would consider that having trouble with the long ball...

    I do not have the numbers in front of me, but they have allowed something like 16 plays of 30+ yards. The most in the league. Averaging two 30+ yard pass plays per game is consistently getting burned. It actually more than the Patriots number one offense produces...

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    How BB uses these guys will be interesting. I don't see Dennard in the slot..he is too stiff..I really think the best combo is Dennard and Talib at corner, cole in the slot, McCourty and Chung at safety with Gregory rotating in in dime to replace Chung? ....

    This is how I see it as well. With Arrington also playing some slot and some of Dennard's snaps if his head injury isn't serious. Wilson has looked good enough to continue to get some mins at safety as well and McCourty is now a depth CB and not a starter there, playing FS where he is much better, solid move.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    I agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.



     agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

     

    telling it like it is. though a lot of the non football guys dog me when i say it

     

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.

     

    again correct. and ive been saying that before and after the trade as well.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    It's the middle of Talib's fifth year.  If he started for Tampa then he can play Tampa-2 by now.  In any case he's a cover corner -- just stick with one receiver and don't worry about the defensive scheme.

    The guy flunked three marijuana tests in college.  He puts Aaron Hernandez to shame.



    "It's the middle of Talib's fifth year.  If he started for Tampa then he can play Tampa-2 by now.  In any case he's a cover corner -- just stick with one receiver and don't worry about the defensive scheme."

    yup. been saying this all day

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    Yes, only BB has to deal with injuries. No other team does. You sure are smart, Babe. You keep telling me to learn the game, but it's always on the heels of BB doing something positive for the team.

    Hmm.

    Your trolling is gone too far.   If you hate BB this much, please finally get help and move on.




    C'mon junior. You act as if he has some great DBs on the injured list or something. LMAO@U

     

    Where do you get this I hate BB BS? His drafting is subject to criticism. That's all I have said. I think there are plenty who agree with that at this point.

    At least I don't infest the board daily with idiotic complaints about his coaching like you do.




    Just more crusty logic.  First he disses the pick saying it's more than just a name on a jersey then it's a brilliant move by BB in the next breath.  Must lose track of which personality he is from moment to moment.

    Oh and the drugs are no big deal and Goodells fault.  Twisted crusty logic, indeed.




    Look at the bright side. At least he's not telling us the defense is good, like he did all last year.



    that was the point of the thread i started at trade time.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    If it includes PI, then great.  I am also pretty sure most NFL teams don't have 2 rookie Safeties to judge this on either.

    Just saying. 

    I am well aware BB won't be starting two rookie Safeties or incompetent Safeties in January.That's sort of the point. Again, I know for a fact this D will very good by January.   Look at Damien Woody's comments from earlier today. 

     




    Maybe if some more of the FA and draft picks had worked out we wouldn't have two rookies starting. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    I agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.




    No offense, but we don't consistently get burnt on the long ball. That was the new this year in like 3 games, 1 with replacement refs with phantom PI.

    Just saying.

    Mark my words: This whole secondary media crap drama will be buried, quick.  Hopefully, everyone is healthy come postseason, but don't expect this rhetoric to last.

    How can BB pay for CBs when has most of the money invested in the offense at the same cap limit as 2009? Brady wasn't making the money he makes now as he did then. Nor does Mankins.

    Please try to use logic.



    I know that Patriots have allowed 10 passing TDs of 20 yards or more... I believe that is the highest in the league. I would consider that having trouble with the long ball...

    I do not have the numbers in front of me, but they have allowed something like 16 plays of 30+ yards. The most in the league. Averaging two 30+ yard pass plays per game is consistently getting burned. It actually more than the Patriots number one offense produces...



    number one in successful 20 yard plays allowed, i believe it was before the game they had 39.

    #1 in 30+ yard plays allowed.

    and as far as paying for cbs, 1 there is alwys a way to work th ecap. 2 we had room thi sofseaosn. 3. if yo value not allowign 50 yard tds you can put the oney there instead of elsewhere. however that being said, if this works out, this will be  abest case scenario.

    an elite talented cover cb for a 4th and owed less than 2 mil

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Is he "elite"?  Inconsistency in performance, and lackadaisical work ethic doesn't exactly equate to that term. Is 7 games enough time for him to have an impact? I don't think anyone said if he is allowed to practice until his suspension is over; which is still 1.5 weeks away.

    My concern is - can he cover the better receivers, does he have ball hawking skills, is he a playmaker, can he tackle, will he help the defense get off the field, is he coachable....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    It's the middle of Talib's fifth year.  If he started for Tampa then he can play Tampa-2 by now.  In any case he's a cover corner -- just stick with one receiver and don't worry about the defensive scheme.

    The guy flunked three marijuana tests in college.  He puts Aaron Hernandez to shame.



    I know that Tampa Bay does not actually the the Tampa 2 as their base coverage anymore.

    There was a good article about how few teams use it as their base defense: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8392529/chicago-bears-minnesota-vikings-only-teams-using-cover-2-defense-espn-magazine

    from the article: "By (Ronde) Barber's estimate, the Bucs will play the cover 2 only about 20 percent of the time in 2012."

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    It's the middle of Talib's fifth year.  If he started for Tampa then he can play Tampa-2 by now.  In any case he's a cover corner -- just stick with one receiver and don't worry about the defensive scheme.

    The guy flunked three marijuana tests in college.  He puts Aaron Hernandez to shame.



    I know that Tampa Bay does not actually the the Tampa 2 as their base coverage anymore.

    There was a good article about how few teams use it as their base defense: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8392529/chicago-bears-minnesota-vikings-only-teams-using-cover-2-defense-espn-magazine

    from the article: "By (Ronde) Barber's estimate, the Bucs will play the cover 2 only about 20 percent of the time in 2012."




    hopefully, they won't use him as a S as part of a cover 2.....otherwise, I wouldn't anticipate much improvement in our secondary.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    about adderall

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL30OrbKYHs

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    I agree that BB deserves a lot of criticism for putting a consistently crappy secondary on the field for now going on 4-5 years. He has struck out here both in the draft and in FA. That is something that can't be disputed. It's because of this that Talib was acquired mid- season. It's because of this that we had Edelman playing corner last yEar. 

    He has been a master of plugging guys in and somewhat hiding this glaring deficiency, up until we get consistently burned on the long ball. 

    TaLib should help, but BB also should think about how he uses this guy . He is a press corner that is good in man coverage..as is Dennard. Use these guys to their strengths combined with a more consistent pass rush, healthy dose of sending spikes, mayo and hightower and this defense can be good enough to succeed in the post season.




    No offense, but we don't consistently get burnt on the long ball. That was the new this year in like 3 games, 1 with replacement refs with phantom PI.

    Just saying.

    Mark my words: This whole secondary media crap drama will be buried, quick.  Hopefully, everyone is healthy come postseason, but don't expect this rhetoric to last.

    How can BB pay for CBs when has most of the money invested in the offense at the same cap limit as 2009? Brady wasn't making the money he makes now as he did then. Nor does Mankins.

    Please try to use logic.




    No offense, but you have no clue.  This has been a problem for 4 years and has gotten progressively worse each year.

    Oh, and those 3 long bombs you speak of, resulted in scores and were the reason they lost those games, late in the 4th with a 9 & 13 point lead.    Learn the game!

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    Not it hasn't.  "Progressively worse"? The D is far from perfect, but if you're leading the NFL in turnovers created pretty much every year, it's not "progressively worse". They need to clean up some things that can be cleaned up. Go look at Damien Woody's quote about what BB wants. He knows more about it than you or I, but I at least have clue while you, as a pinkie video game freak with no concept of what Goodell has done to the league, DO NOT.

    Tavon Wilson is solely responsible for two of the egregious plays as bad as they were. I am not going to get worked up over it. they were bad plays and he needs to be better.

    You're too dumb to realize these plays occur after the QB has 7 seconds due fantastic holding on our D Line.

    If you don't think Goodell has it set up to instruct officials to avoid certain calls for or against certain teams, I can't help you. It's not a coincidence a team like GB, ironically, with a guy like Clay Matthews (who is supposed to be this consistent pass rusher snap in and snap out) has the same "issues" we do.  Of course if any QB has that kind of time, the odds go up for plays to made downfield.  Also, the Baltimore game was an abomination in officiating, so I don't even count that crap. 

    The pass rush needs to be there and it would be nice if Vinc Wilfork and Chandler Jones weren't held on every down.

    Tavon Wilson while be fine. Rookies are far from perfect and he's included.   Arrington struggled in the last 2 games he played in and he's been benched.




    Like I said, NO CLUE!

    The Patriots pass defense is among the worst in the league on throws deeper than 20 yards downfield. This is the fourth consecutive year that the completion percentage New England has allowed on those throws has risen. The Patriots allowed an NFL-worst 48.4 completion percentage on throws longer than 20 yards downfield last season, and have been even worse through eight weeks this year

     

    And then there's this nugget:

    Former Patriots linebacker Tedy Bruschi, now an ESPN analyst, was on ESPN Radio on Thursday to discuss the Patriots’ biggest issue at the bye week. Here’s the podcast (the relevant discussion starts at about the 5-minute mark):

    “You see the (Patriots) offense being OK,” Bruschi says. “The biggest question is going to be the defense and especially the defensive secondary. And that was a huge victory for the New England Patriots to get that win over in London and enjoy the bye week now.

    “But let me tell you what drives coach Belichick crazy. What drives him crazy is when you are an error repeater. When you make one mistake, and then you go into a week of practice and you try to fix things, and then you go out there the next week and you do the exact same thing. And that’s what happened.

    “Compare the deep ball that cost them the game in Seattle and the deep ball early in the game vs. the St. Louis Rams. Did you see any similarities to that play? It was pretty much the exact same play. The safety made the same technical error and the result was the same for another big play against the Patriots.

    “And that’s my biggest concern. Usually, with a Bill Belichick-coached defense, you get a problem, go back to the film room, go to the walkthrough, go to practice, rep it out throughout the week and usually the problem is fixed. But to have that problem re-emerge in the exact same way is a problem where it’s probably not coaching. Now I think it’s the players not accepting the coaching or not understanding the coaching. And that’s the biggest problem right now with the Patriots, especially the defensive secondary

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Chandler Jones, by himself, was not able to replace the productivity of Mark Anderson and Andre Carter; which means that they can't help cover the weakness in the secondary. The secondary either doesn't have the talent and/or isn't being coached properly and/or BB's bible on situational football is outdated (because BB is ultimately responsible for preparing the team and learning from previous mistakes - he obviously hasn't learned from his mistakes from the losses against the Giants). Someone needs to step up opposite of Chandler.


    Hopefully, Talib will have an impact come playoff time. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    It's impossible to draft what isn't there.  If you look at the 2009 draft, DBs who were available with the Pats 1st pick were Louis Delmas and Alphonso Smith.  Then the Pats took Butler.  After that pick in the second round there were 14 DB's taken until the end of the third round with Jarius Byrd, William Moore, Sean Smith, and Ladarius Webb being successful pros.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    It's impossible to draft what isn't there.  If you look at the 2009 draft, DBs who were available with the Pats 1st pick were Louis Delmas and Alphonso Smith.  Then the Pats took Butler.  After that pick in the second round there were 14 DB's taken until the end of the third round with Jarius Byrd, William Moore, Sean Smith, and Ladarius Webb being successful pros.  That makes a 5/17 sucess ratio in the first three rounds of that draft where the Patriots could pick.

    The next draft in 2010 is even worse.  The Pats got McCourty, who we can debate his effectiveness, but the other players selected after the Pats could have drafted are not good.  Kyle Wilson and Patrick Robinson.  There were 15 guys selected after McCourty and none have had success.

    In 2011 the Pats took Dowling with the first pick in the second round.  The Bills then selected Aaron Williams and Rahim Moore was the next DB after that.  It's tough to really evaluate last years draft but one name from the third round that sticks out is Culliver for the niners.  There were 12 DBs selected after Dowling and Culliver is the only one I recognize as having been successful so far in his young career.

    It's easy to sit back and say that the Pats should have drafted better but when you go back and look at the draft classes there just wasn't a whole lot of talent to draft.  And it's not like they didn't try.  They took a DB in each of those drafts.  And those drafts have been successful in other positions and unlike the posters on here who can go back and draft after 3 seasons have taken place BB has to do it without knowing how it will turn out.  Every team misses on draft picks and the Pats have been very successful in the draft the last few seasons (Solder, Vollmer, Ridley, Gronk, Hernandez, Jones, Spikes, Hightower, McCourty).  That's a solid nucleus that most teams would like to have.

     
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