Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

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    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:

    As average as NE's secondaary has been so far this year, there is talent there. It's not a talent issue.   Get healthy, get everyone where they need to be, regroup and build towards improving.

    ---------------

    Well, it's either a talent issue, a coaching issue, or both. Otherwise, why would the Patriots be #1 for completed pass plays of over 20+ yards?

     




     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Too easy to explain poor performance on injuries and poor refs. The poor secondary performance is not new. All of the sudden, "tweaking" is going to make a difference?

    Not convinced that talent isn't a factor.

    2004
    27 Terrell Buckley CB
    30 Je'Rod Cherry FS
    43 Scott Farley SS
    21 Randall Gay CB UR
    37 Rodney Harrison SS
    24 Ty Law CB
    23 Shawn Mayer FS
    25 Christian Morton CB R
    38 Tyrone Poole CB
    2 Dexter Reid SS R
    22 Asante Samuel CB
    39 Guss Scott FS R


    2005
    42 Antuan Edwards FS
    21 Randall Gay CB
    37 Rodney Harrison SS
    27 Ellis Hobbs CB/KR R
    38 Tyrone Poole CB
    31 Hank Poteat CB
    24 Dexter Reid SS
    22 Asante Samuel CB
    36 James Sanders SS R
    30 Chad Scott CB
    29 Guss Scott FS
    23 Duane Starks CB
    41 Ray Ventrone SS UR
    26 Eugene Wilson FS


    2006
    38 Willie Andrews SS R
    43 Vernell Brown CB UR
    25 Artrell Hawkins SS
    27 Ellis Hobbs CB
    34 Tebucky Jones FS
    24 Mel Mitchell FS
    32 Hank Poteat CB
    22 Asante Samuel CB
    36 James Sanders SS
    30 Chad Scott CB
    29 Guss Scott FS
    31 Antwain Spann CB
    41 Ray Ventrone SS
    23 Eric Warfield CB
    26 Eugene Wilson FS


    2007
    41 Larry Anam S/CB UR
    23 Willie Andrews SS
    32 Rashad Baker FS
    21 Randall Gay CB
    37 Rodney Harrison SS
    25 Artrell Hawkins SS
    27 Ellis Hobbs CB/KR
    28 Tory James CB
    35 Mike Richardson CB R
    36 James Sanders FS
    30 Chad Scott CB
    42 Gemara Williams CB/KR
    26 Eugene Wilson FS

    2008  
    25 Fernando Bryant CB
    30 Mark Dillard SS UR
    31 Brandon Meriweather SS
    35 Mike Richardson CB
    36 James Sanders FS
    29 Lewis Sanders CB
    28 Antwain Spann FS/CB
    21 Jason Webster CB
    22 Terrence Wheatley CB R
    24 Jonathan Wilhite CB R
    26 Tank Williams SS/ILB

    2009
    23 Leigh Bodden CB
    28 Darius Butler CB R
    25 Pat Chung SS R
    27 Herana-Daze Jones FS
    30 Brandon McGowan FS
    31 Brandon Meriweather SS
    35 Mike Richardson CB
    36 James Sanders FS
    22 Terrence Wheatley CB
    24 Jonathan Wilhite CB
    26 Tank Williams SS

    2010
    27 Kyle Arrington CB
    23 Leigh Bodden CB
    38 Sergio Brown SS UR
    28 Darius Butler CB
    25 Patrick Chung SS
    43 Terrence Johnson CB UR
    26 Bret Lockett FS
    32 Devin McCourty CB R
    30 Brandon McGowan FS
    31 Brandon Meriweather FS
    36 James Sanders SS
    41 Ross Ventrone FS UR
    22 Terrence Wheatley CB
    24 Jonathan Wilhite CB

    2011
    24 Kyle Arrington CB
    31 Sergio Brown FS
    25 Patrick Chung FS/SS
    44 James Ihedigbo SS
    23 Nate Jones CB/FS
    32 Devin McCourty CB/FS
    27 Antwaun Molden CB
    29 Sterling Moore CB/FS
    41 Malcolm Williams CB

    2012
    24 Kyle Arrington CB
    25 Patrick Chung SS
    23 Marquice Cole CB
    37 Alfonzo Dennard CB
    43 Nate Ebner SS
    28 Steve Gregory FS
    26 Derrick Martin CB
    32 Devin McCourty CB/FS/KR
    41 Malcolm Williams CB
    27 Tavon Wilson FS/SS

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Injuries sat Safety, Baltimore replacement refs, etc. That's why. Again, the stats are bloated and not really reflective of the reality of the potential of the D.

    It's like GM showing is great growth from 1990-2007 when we all know their real numbers are worse than Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. So, whatever GM was telling me or any stockholder was a crock, when I knew it was a Potemkin Village.  Rotten at its core and it's still rotten, unfortunately.

    Reality vs perception.   Gee, I could have sworn I saw more and more Japanese and So. Korean vheicles at stoplights through the years and it wasn't a mirage. Gee, there's another American car broken down on the highway.  Yep. I know I've seen those things.  Born at night, but not last night. 

    Pats secondary isn't rotten, it just needs tweaking.

    It's essentially inferior play by two players who were struggling/have struggled. Rookie, Tavon Wilson and Arrington. No idea what's up with Arrington, but his situation is being addressed. I'll wait on Wilson. Might be too much exposure too soon/trying to do too much as a rookie, etc.

    I refuse to pretend the phantom/ticky tack PI calls in the Baltimore game as representative of the reality of how the secondary generally plays. I agree the big plays aren't good, but I also believe it's a phase early in the season where it will be addressed.

    I do agree with Bruschi that it's surprising that Wilson made the exact same error on both plays. I was very surprised he was overly aggressive in that spot again and took a very shallow position back there. If I am Wilson since the Seattle game, my whole goal would be to not let that happen ever again.

    But, again, not fundamental. It's fixable. BB will have them tuned up. Just watch.

    [/QUOTE]

    The injuries and replacement refs are not valid arguments. Chung has been a disappointment for a couple of years now. Maybe Gregory would have been an upgrade from what we had last year, but it is not like he was a top line safety coming in here or that the defensive backfield looked that great in the games he was there.

    I think the problems are fundamental. Not turn your head when the ball is in the air is fundamental. Not letting the receiver behind you in a cover-2 is fundamental. 

    There is this misconception that the defensive improved over the course of the season last year. Over the last six games they allowed an average of 422 yards and 23 points... Which was actually slightly worse then they performed over the first 8 games...

    The main reason they ended the season on an 8-0 run was not that they defense got better, it was that they played garbage teams! The offense kept scoring enough to win the games. Statistically, the best defense they played over the last 8 games of the year was the Dolphins (8th in points allowed and 15th in yards last season).

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can't be that hard to learn the defensive passing scheme, don't look back. =) 

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, that was funny!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Chung has not been a disappointment whatsoever other than the health argument for him. Yes, THAT part is disppointing.

    Injuries aren't a factor? The Baltimore Ravens likely won't make the playoffs or do anything once there due to their injuries on D, even sitting at 5-2. That's a fraud 5-2.

    Spikes and Chung went down with 8 minutes to go in the stellar defensive effort at home against the Giants last year (on the heels of the D dominating agains the Cowboys as well) in October, the D faltered with its backups in there, as MANY Ds do (gee, what a nove concept, the backups aren't as good as the starters! lmao), and when they returned, they clearly made a difference for the postseason.

    I'm not disappointed in Chung. He is what he is.  He's Jim Leonhard who has problems playing 16 games.   Solid player, the captain on the back end and important to the coheisveness of the secondary.

    Fundamental and making a physical mistake aren't the same thing, Einstein. You don't think TAvon Wilson realize he screwed up?  Jesus. The kid is a rookie and adapting to a totally different speed than the NCAA.

    Give your irrational behavior a rest.   I hope some fo you don't have kids.  The overbearing criticism so extreme with any play on this D is ridiculous and very old.

    The only thing you're correct about is that the D improved as the 2011 rolled on. They didn't. Their best games were vs Dallas and the Giants, two very good offenses that every pundit said weould give NE problems.  The NE held and held over and over and it was only due to Spikes and Chung going down did NY do anything in the 4th qtr.

    I am sorry, but if your D is allowing 0-3 points in half, that is outstanding in this league. In the second half of the Pitt game, the D emerged, and that's when it started last year.  But, I refuse to pretend Tracy White and Sergio Brown are Spikes and Chung. Utter garbage. Garbage argument.

     The Pats offense was abysmal in December last year and it contiued on into the playoffs.  On XMas eve this offense did not get past mid field in one half vs Miami. Case closed.

    They turned it over or went 3 and out over and over and over, losing field position in the Indy, KC, Miami and Buffalo games. Fact.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Chung sucks junior. Learn the game.

     

    Did you ever wonder why people think you're a cuckoo? Maybe because you praise guys like BJGE, Chung, McCourty and Edelman and slam guys like Brady.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As average as NE's secondaary has been so far this year, there is talent there. It's not a talent issue.   Get healthy, get everyone where they need to be, regroup and build towards improving.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Truly, what is wrong with you? I really want to know. Tell us. You have some kind of condition. Don't be ashamed. It will explain your lunacy.

     

    Here's a clue junior. A 95 DPR isn't AVERAGE!!!!!

    Heavens to Betsey you are dense.

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Brady won't play well in the post season if the o line doesn't keep him clean. Against the Ravens, Steelers, 49'ers, Giants, they can't . They will struggle against a physical defense 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As average as NE's secondaary has been so far this year, there is talent there. It's not a talent issue.   Get healthy, get everyone where they need to be, regroup and build towards improving.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Truly, what is wrong with you? I really want to know. Tell us. You have some kind of condition. Don't be ashamed. It will explain your lunacy.

     

    Here's a clue junior. A 95 DPR isn't AVERAGE!!!!!

    Heavens to Betsey you are dense.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    If Brady doesn't play well in the postseason again, do you think you'll show up here after he doesn't? Serious question.

    [/QUOTE]


    Why the hell wouldn't I show up here no matter how he plays junior?

     

    And stow the "again" nonsense. You have been body slammed on that foolishness repeatedly.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    You claim that it's a talented secondary. I merely printed out the defensive back roster since our last SB win as a quick reference to prior DBs on the team. Certainly a much better example than your GM example. You just rambled on that one.

    You imply that the defensive backs are solely responsible for for the takeaway/giveaway ratio and being a huge factor for the run D. I would beg to differ. The front seven is a bigger factor in the run D vs. secondary.  In general, the Patriots defense overall ranks in the top 10 for takeaway/giveaway ratio almost every year, SOME of which are INTs by the defensive backs.

    So, if INTs is your measurement of the talent of our defensive backs, here are some stats. But as you can see, I don't think INTs is a good measurement of the performance of the defensive backs, however, Passing yards given up/game is probably a better measurement. If so, then our secondary sucks.

    2012 #7 with 9, project to 18 INTs, #28  281 Passing Yards Given/Game

    2011 #2, 23 INTs, #31 294 Passing Yards/Game

    2010 #1, 25 INTs, #30 259 Passing Yards/Game

    2009 #11, 18 INTs, #12 210 Passing Yards/Game

    2008 #15, 14 INTs, #11 201 Passing Yards/Game

    2007 #6, 19 INTs, #6 190 Passing Yards/Game

    2006 #4, 22 INTs, #12 200 Passing Yards/Game

    2005 #26, 10 INTs, #31 231 Passing Yards/Game

    2004, #7, 20 INTs, #17 213 Passing Yards/Game

    So, yeah...I still question if it's the talent and/or coaching. Lastly, why would BB acquire Talib if there wasn't a concern about talent in the secondary?

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    LMAO...okay. Now it's roger's fault. 

    Giants were #32 in rushing yards per game - great balance on offense right there.

    The Steelers are giving up only 183 passing yards per game in Goodell's passing era. So, if it's a passing league, why wouldn't ALL teams be giving up 290 yards/game.

    Dude, mebbe our secondary just sucks.

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Hey, I'm not the one saying the Patriot's defensive backs are talented. You came up with quite a few excuses, didn't you?  Mebbe, just mebbe our secondary sucks - and I don't see that as a good thing.  Put it this way, leaving everything else the same - would you rather the Patriots give up190 passing yards per game or 290?


    In addition, if the secondary is just fine - why would BB make a move? You still forgot to answer that one...lol

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Dude, you keep proving you have no idea that Roger Goodell is the commissioner and is trying to put a team in London.

    Comparing 2004 to 2012's NFL is moronic.   You're clueless.

    The last 4 SB winning teams had these things in common:

    1. Low "ranked" Ds, but high takeaway rates for their Ds (opportunistic Ds).

    2. High scoring, well balanced offenses.

    3. Elite QBs who perform well.

    The days of the game managing QB and an elite D (in the traditional sense) are over, which means the 3 QBs how threw for 5000 yards all in the same year isn't a coincidence.

    Wake up.

    [/QUOTE]


    Dude, did you not create this post the other day or was it one of your many alter ego's?

    Alex Smith outstanding.

    Turning into a great game manager type like Schaub is in Houston or what Eli does in NY. Lean on the run game, don't throw any INTs, move the sticks.

    The QBR is the most overrated stat in sports. Move the sticks. 3 TDs, 300 yards, no turnovers, rest your D.

    That's the key. Maybe Brady can channel what he created someday yet again. The clock management in this one shows how much Alex Smith helps his nice D.

    We're not far off from this. The way they run their offense though, kills the way we run ours. Smith is under center more frequently, Gore is the lead back and they just don't take chances in the air.

    Hunter is our Vereen or Woodhead. The difference is, he isn't considered the feature back.

     

     

    • Truth is, you flip more than a fish out of water, to whatever twisted agenda you're trying to sell.  Guess what, crusto, we're not buying any of your BS.

    • Exposed AGAIN!!!  I expect you'll be deleting this account very soon as you've already been exposed to the Nth with it.
    • PS, TOM Fricken Brady got Offensive player of the week again, not your lover Alex, as outstanding as you think he was. In your dreams!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Injuries to good players make a difference. Injuries to bad ones . . . well, who cares?

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    Eff the system...they need a CB that can run with the WR, and goon him on the line.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to krismk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Eff the system...they need a CB that can run with the WR, and goon him on the line.

    [/QUOTE]


    LMAO, agree that the DBs need to be better in coverage and more aggressive at the line.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Talib Has Work To Learn Defensive System

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What?  In 2004, we had more game manager type QBs than we do now. It doesn't mean the concept managing a game during a game whether you're a great Tom Brady or a solid ALex Smith is something that Brady should ignore or Smith needs to have to do what he does.

    You're reading comprehension is horrendous.

    How childish can you be either not reading correctly or thinking things are so black and white you get that confused on what I was saying?  LMAO

    Translation: You just showcased a horrendous IQ. Again.

    PS I don't care if Brady gets player of the week in October. I want it in January and February like he used to be able to do. We'll see if he can do it this time around.

    [/QUOTE]


    No I think your writing is horrendous.  FLIP FLIP FLIP...

    Did U decide if you liked the Talib move or not?  One minute you diss the people for liking the name on the jersey, the next, it's a brilliant move by BB.  So, which is it?  FLIP FLIP FLIP

     
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