Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    Garoppolo  said in an interview, that he played under Center his first 2 years,then they changed over to spread Offense his last 2 years.
    He is familiar with both.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:


    [QUOTE]


     


     


     


     


    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


     


     


    Pats need a player to take over for Vince.  This was a good draft to do that.  Easley isn't that guy.


     


     


     


    You know this how?


     


    Really? Honestly you seriously think Easley can be that guy? 


     


    Bortles was the Pats guy, they ended up with Garoppolo. This isnt the guy they wanted to take over for Brady.  Maybe he can work, but wasn't who they initially wanted.  Garoppolo heavily worked out of the shotgun and spread offense, Rusty must really hate that but he hasn't said it because it will go against his love for BB.


     


    This is the first time in the history of the draft that a player high on one teams bored was taken well before they were on the clock to pick, forcing said team to then take another player on their board at the same position.


     


    This wasn't the Pats first choice.  I would say it's a safe bet that the teams who got the guy they wanted and went out and got him were more successful then teams who got their 2nd or 3rd choice.  Of course, as we well know there are always exceptions to the rule.  People act like Garoppolo was the guy the Pats all along... reports coming out since the pick say differently.


     


    5 very good TE's to chose from to fill a big role in this offense, deep draft for TE's as far as TE's are concerned... Pats got zero! 


     


    I think you're overrating this TE class... there were some decent options, but no must have talents at the position, especially when they were on the clock.


     


    The TE position was a very stacked top 5.  Any one of those top 5 players would be huge in this offense.  You might not consider it a deep TE pool this year, but it was for the type of offense the Pats run and we missed all 5 guys.


     


    Need some O line help, depth and the pats get a injury prone center in the beginning of the 4th round who is projected to go late round 7 or undrafted.  Stork didn’t participate in the combine due to injuries to his knee and both shoulders. Almost had finger amputated in 12. Toe surgery in 13.


     


    He's a Rd 7/URFA because you read that on a couple of online publications?  I've read a couple that have him as a Day 2 kid... so what?


     


     


     


    Please let me know those sites because most everything I have read has him going in rnd 7 or undrafted.  NFL, CBS, ESPN insider, Walters football to name a few... no day 2!  Matter of fact the best I have read on him is some teams would consider him a possible 5th rounder.


     


    Is it really a stretch to question the picks that BB has made in this draft?  Come on!


     


    There's a difference between questioning or being unhappy with BB's picks, (fans get an emotional attachment to players they want, it happens to all of us), and moving thread to thread sh1++ing all over every pick (and the intelligence of the organization) based on some pre-conceived notion that you have based on a scouting report/opinion of a talking head that you've read; before a kid ever steps on the field to take a snap for the team.


     


    I like you and everyone in the draft forum has an opinion on needs for this team.  I don't like the picks, I am explaining why, and all I see is others saying trust BB, he knows better, blah, blah, blah... no explanation for why a pick is a good pick, just towing the company line.  Please... I tell why I think it is a bad pick, the least people can do is explain why they think it is a good pick instead of just bad mouthing my opinion,


     


     


     


     


    [/QUOTE]


     


    [/QUOTE]


    No team in the NFL has been more successful than the Pats for the last decade going on two.


    Again you show you don't know squat about building an NFL team in the real world.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    I have no issue with measured criticism. Even the overboard stuff ("BB Whizzed on my hopes and Dreams and Now my Kids Won't Get into thta Fancy Prep School I Was Hoping, and Grandma Will need More Dialysis, etc, etc, What's Wrong with Kids these Days?") can be filed under "open board/free country." 


    I'm just trying to give people perspective.


    Second, you mention part of the problem. Draft-know-it-all-ism: something this board in particular has gone way over the top with in the last few years. It used to be that people would hash out positives and negatives about positional need, and they would talk about programs. Now we have how many distinct "draft" threads? From who? People who peck around on the internet and opine like they know the first thing about ANY of these prospects that cannot be (was not) located in another fan blog or a big name site? 


    You might have had objections back then too. But usually something akin to, "Why take a DT when you are deep there?" Or, "don't the Pats really need a safety?" 


    Now, I'm just tired of hearing "he's a sixth rounder no higher!" How do they know? "I watched the youtube I found on a fan site, which also said '6th rd.'" Or, "He has a high cut pelvis! That's no good!" Here is my response: It's day three guys! There are no rounds people "should" be selected in! 


    Let's take the reaction to Stork's selection. I'm literally chuckling at the farce. It took about two seconds for Stork to be selected until a couple of posters chimed in "Short arms, stiff hips? Thanks for kicking my dog Bill!" It takes about another two seconds to go to NFLcombine.com, then look at the negatives column, and then read "short arms stiff hips." Then maybe a cursory five seconds to look at the top five or six fan blogs, that ALL essentially copied and pasted that little tid bit.


    Given a modicum of perspective people would realize Dan Koppen had shorter arms than Stork. Give it a bit of thought and one might realize FSU had the seventh best passing offense in the entire NCAA. The other comparable centers weren't in an offense nearly as sophisticated. If anyone knows anything about NCAA football (and dollars to donuts most people here watch one or two games each season at best), they'd know that Jimbo Fisher, unlike just about every other coach out there in college, runs a "concept" based offense where the same set of plays are run from a few different personnel packages, where the nomenclature remains the same but the players might change, where they pass to set up the run, and where you have a high learning curve. In short, Stork, for a team like NE, who runs a concept based E/P offense, is possibly the best interior line selection. He already calls signals in that very style of offense, which (like FSU's) can be baffling for newcomers, and has really crashed a few careers based on its complexity.  


    The pick makes sense. Martin? Not so much when you look at what the draft room might actually be thinking. 


    Lastly, like everyone else here including myself, you've seen no "tape" on any of these kids. None. With all due respect, and I mean that respect Mthurl, Youtube highlight reels and typed snippets from other people who watch Youtube highlight reels are not "tape." Watching "tape" is sitting in a coaches room with the knowledge of actual football technique, and multiple views from every game a player has been involved in (good plays and bad) while studying and annotating that material exhaustively. 


    No offense, the guys you liked are probably going to be out of the NFL. We know this because most drafted players are going to be out of the NFL. So will half of BB's selections if history is our guide. 


    There is no reason to throw a fit (not that you have, I've not noticed it to be truthful). 


    Lastly, onto the 'Garoppolo' debate. NE needs a QB now, not later. You don't assume Brady is going to play past his current contract at 36-7 years of age. A second rounder, which Garoppolo is certainly worth, is a fair price to pay. The mish-mosh of scrub players around him most likely wouldn't have a made a difference EITHER for several seasons. A 62nd pick, or whatever they used on him, is not (unless you get lucky) an immediate contributor. Most of them take three seasons to have a real impact (they might play earlier if you are particularly weak at a spot), the better of them are starting in season two, with only rare gems becoming a real impactful presence in season #1. Garoppolo won't be an immediate contributor. But when Brady retires, or takes a higher contract elsewhere at 40, at least New England will have a decent, day one, QB with experience in the system under contract. And if, based on their scouting, Garoppolo has the football intellect and accuracy/footwork he is supposed to have, and if they develop him, and he is a very good QB, then no one is going to care that they passed on Landry, Britt, Martin, or Nix, even if one of them becomes a very good player a couple years down the line. 


    [/QUOTE]

    This is one of the best posts I have read since this year's draft started. And badly needed. Thanks.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    They drafted Easley to do what he does... use his exceptional burst and quicks to disrupt vs. the run and pass... so he doesn't have to be that guy.  We also have zero insight into what BB/MP are looking to do from a schematic standpoint moving forward, so it's impossible to assume that he needs a particular player.


    Its a big risk with his acl issues, big risk at #29, thats why others weren't going to touch him in rnd 1.  He is also a bit undersized for his position.  A very big risk here, imo and I'm not alone.


     


    So trading up for a guy that you want automatically makes you more successful?  You think that just because BB had Bortles high on his board, that he should leverage his entire draft to take him?  Who is acting like BB went into this draft knowing that he'd land JG?  Again, non of us know how the board will drop.  They build their board and select based on who's available.


    You miss my point here, Mike.  People are acting like this was the plan to begin with, that they drafted him because he is  their pick to take over for Brady.  No it isn't the Pats wanted Bortles.  They got someone else who wasn't at the top of their list.  Matter of fact, it's possible he wasn't even the top 2 on their list.  Usually when there is a QB you want to lead your franchise you go and get the one you want.  Again, there are exceptions to the rule. as we all know.  


     


    Yeah, don't agree... again, some decent prospects, but I don't see any must haves... and none worth trading up for.  We won't know for a couple years.


    You don't have to agree but I clearly see 5 TE's in this draft that would be huge in the Pats offense beginning day 1. It's my opinion and I can give it all I want, why do people feel the need to attack me because of it?  


     


    Draft Nasty, which is run by Corey Chavous (a former NFL DB) and his father... and Ourlads.


    Can you please post the scouting report from Draft Nasty, not that I don't believe you, I would be curious to read it.


     


     


    [/QUOTE]


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    No team in the NFL has been more successful than the Pats for the last decade going on two.


     


    Again you show you don't know squat about building an NFL team in the real world.


    [/QUOTE]

    Again, I ask how long it has been since we won a SB?  Yes, its nice to have winning seasons year after year but the goal is to win SB's.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptFoxboro. Show CaptFoxboro's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    Z


    I respect and understand your reasons for this well thought out post .


    9 out of 10 times I echo your football thoughts.


    In this particular case I have a different take .


    I believe that if you have a championship caliber team ,


    you don't use a 2nd round pick in order to win in 2017 .


    IMO -


    Any other way of spinning it is disingenuous -  as even BB has come out and intimated that this is the case.


    I also believe that if BB thinks that 62 picks into the draft there are no longer players that can contribute now - then he probably doesn't deserve to be drafting for an NFL team .


    Even if you think there are no REAL impact players at #62 ...Why not put a package together and move up in the 2nd to get one that will ?...Especially if you truly believe you're close to another SB Championship .


    I firmly believe that BB played it safe with the game on the line yesterday


    ( ran a draw on 3rd and 8 when a 1st down would have ran out the clock )


    Personally ,  I prefer the BB that goes for it on 4th in 2 in Indy  -  instead of punting to a red hot Manning


    ( and yes ...Kevin Faulk did indeed have that 1st down  ...by at least a yard )


    I also understand perfectly that there are Pats fans that prefer he punt and play D .


    For me ...


    Whether Garoppolo ever materializes as a top shelf Qb is besides the point .


    I WANT BB TO GIVE THE  PATRIOTS EVERY REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO WIN ....NOW .


    Capt out


     


    PS - Keep on posting Z !


     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to zbellino's comment:


     



    You are really calling someone nuts who doesn't think that all 5 of ANY position in an NFL draft will be "huge" in the NFL?


     


    Really?


     


    In five seasons, four of them won't even be IN the NFL anymore if past averages/likelihood is our guide. 


     


    Per NE's offense ... it didn't help Ballard, Fells, Smith, Hooman, Sudfeld, Kellen Winslow or anyone else flourish. 


     



     


    What is with all your lists?  You are missing the point here, Z.

    Ballard, Fells, Smith, Hooman, Sudfeld, lmao!  Seriously?  I would take all 5 of the top 5 TE's in this years draft over that list all day long, every year long.  That list you posted is rediculous when you compare it to the top 5 TE's in this years draft.  That is what is so special about this TE class this year.  All 5.. Ebron, Amaro, Niklas, ASJ, and Fiedorwicz would have been huge in this Patriots offense.   Again, I am only talking abou the Patriots offense, some of them might not do well with other teams but all 5 were sure things in this offense.  Pats missed here, hope they don't go into this season without addressing the TE need, because last year was an epic fail at TE.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


     


     


    They drafted Easley to do what he does... use his exceptional burst and quicks to disrupt vs. the run and pass... so he doesn't have to be that guy.  We also have zero insight into what BB/MP are looking to do from a schematic standpoint moving forward, so it's impossible to assume that he needs a particular player.


     


    Its a big risk with his acl issues, big risk at #29, thats why others weren't going to touch him in rnd 1.  He is also a bit undersized for his position.  A very big risk here, imo and I'm not alone.


    No doubt there's some risk, I think everybody realizes that, but he could be a special player based on his talent and those are the types that you take a chance on.


     


     


     


    So trading up for a guy that you want automatically makes you more successful?  You think that just because BB had Bortles high on his board, that he should leverage his entire draft to take him?  Who is acting like BB went into this draft knowing that he'd land JG?  Again, non of us know how the board will drop.  They build their board and select based on who's available.


     


    You miss my point here, Mike.  People are acting like this was the plan to begin with, that they drafted him because he is  their pick to take over for Brady.  No it isn't the Pats wanted Bortles.  They got someone else who wasn't at the top of their list.  Matter of fact, it's possible he wasn't even the top 2 on their list.  Usually when there is a QB you want to lead your franchise you go and get the one you want.  Again, there are exceptions to the rule. as we all know.  


     


    I think the plan was to target the QB position if the right guy(s) were there and it turns out that a player that they really liked was there at the end of Rd 2... so they pulled the trigger.  QB is the most important position in the sport, so I think its smart to draft/develop a kid if you feel strongly that he can help you win football games long term, vs. getting to a point where you need a QB and don't have one.


     


     


    Yeah, don't agree... again, some decent prospects, but I don't see any must haves... and none worth trading up for.  We won't know for a couple years.


     


    You don't have to agree but I clearly see 5 TE's in this draft that would be huge in the Pats offense beginning day 1. It's my opinion and I can give it all I want, why do people feel the need to attack me because of it?  


    I'm not attacking anyone, you're more than entitled to your opinion on a topic.  I'm all for healthy, well thought out dialogue on a topic... that's why we're all here.


     


     


     


    Draft Nasty, which is run by Corey Chavous (a former NFL DB) and his father... and Ourlads.


     


    Can you please post the scouting report from Draft Nasty, not that I don't believe you, I would be curious to read it.


     


    Rank Player Name Playable Positions College Rating - Grade Year
    1 Weston Richburg OG C Colorado State 6.371 - 2nd Round 2014
    2 Marcus Martin OG C USC 5.935 - 3rd Round 2014
    3 Gabe Ikard OG C Oklahoma 5.792 - 3rd Round 2014
    4 Ryan Groy OT OG C Wisconsin 5.747 - 3rd Round 2014
    5 Bryan Stork OG C Florida State 5.738 - 3rd Round 2014


     


    What makes this player NASTY? (Strengths)
    Good communicator. Veteran OL who has the respect of his teammates. Has shown the athleticism to man several line positions. Spent the 2012 spring at RT. Began the 2011 season as the team’s starting left guard before sliding over to center for the remainder of the season. In 2010, he started at RG. At OG (not OC), he can get his hands on NGs/DTs, quickly off the ball. As an OC, he's urgent passing off line games. Excellent communicator in the pre-snap. Precise hand placement in his pass pro. Re-anchors well vs. power. Moves well. Times his chip blocks on front side runs. Keeps his body in a position to get to the second portion of his assignment vs. the LB. Has proven capable of releasing and showing foot speed on screen passes (Wake Forest ’12). Does a good job of wheeling his frame to re-anchor at the POA vs. power. Stood out during the 2014 Senior Bowl practices. Sat down and handled power.


    Weaknesses
    Added weight does not look all the way proportioned. Average build. Illness forced him to miss time in 2010. Not a real snap in the hips blocker. Gets into trouble when he relies on his quickness and tries to block to half a man. Loses his hand location after the snap on inside zone runs. Can be overpowered by larger NGs/DTs. Was dominated at times by Georgia Tech’s TJ Barnes in the 2012 ACC Championship game.


    Other Notes
    • Was recruited after mainly playing tight end at Vero Beach HS (FL) • Led Seminole linemen with 27 knockdown blocks in 2011; gave up just three sacks • Shared the team’s Don Powell Award (recognizes the team’s Unsung Hero) with LB Nick Moody in 2012 • 2012 2nd Team All-ACC selection (coaches) • 2014 NFL Combine: 32 1/4" arms, 10 1/8" hands


    Time to get NASTY (Our Summary)...
    Stork benefits from a high football IQ and unique understanding of the position. Rarely will you see him get into trouble with his assignments and he's generally a finisher. He seemed to be a little more decisive handling defensive tackles with girth at guard rather than center. In 2013, he flashed improved hand placement and anchor strength. At his size, he'll compete for a starting job at offensive center early but we feel he can give a team repetitions as a backup at a couple of other positions on an offensive line. He carries mid-round value entering the 2014 NFL Draft.


     


     


     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to CaptFoxboro's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Z


     


    I respect and understand your reasons for this well thought out post .


     


    9 out of 10 times I echo your football thoughts.


     


    In this particular case I have a different take .


     


    I believe that if you have a championship caliber team ,


     


    you don't use a 2nd round pick in order to win in 2017 .


     


    IMO -


     


    Any other way of spinning it is disingenuous -  as even BB has come out and intimated that this is the case.


     


    I also believe that if BB thinks that 62 picks into the draft there are no longer players that can contribute now - then he probably doesn't deserve to be drafting for an NFL team .


     


    Even if you think there are no REAL impact players at #62 ...Why not put a package together and move up in the 2nd to get one that will ?...Especially if you truly believe you're close to another SB Championship .


     


    I firmly believe that BB played it safe with the game on the line yesterday


     


    ( ran a draw on 3rd and 8 when a 1st down would have ran out the clock )


     


    Personally ,  I prefer the BB that goes for it on 4th in 2 in Indy  -  instead of punting to a red hot Manning


     


    ( and yes ...Kevin Faulk did indeed have that 1st down  ...by at least a yard )


     


    I also understand perfectly that there are Pats fans that prefer he punt and play D .


     


    For me ...


     


    Whether Garoppolo ever materializes as a top shelf Qb is besides the point .


     


    I WANT BB TO GIVE THE  PATRIOTS EVERY REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO WIN ....NOW .


     


    Capt out


     


     


     


    PS - Keep on posting Z !


     


     


    [/QUOTE]


    I don't know. You don't draft any players, even round one selections, banking on them being contributors. They are merely prospects. They aren't bona fide NFL players. 


    Running around chasing additions for "this year" is a recipe for disaster in the draft in my opinion. I can't even think of teams, successful ones, that do that. 


    Heck, Seattle has basically no need this season for a DT, but they wanted Easley themselves. You always draft for the future, not the now. 


    That's what signing your and other people's FAs is for. NFL roster spots need to be given to proven NFL players. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to zbellino's comment:


    [QUOTE]


     


     


     


     



    You are really calling someone nuts who doesn't think that all 5 of ANY position in an NFL draft will be "huge" in the NFL?


     


     


     


    Really?


     


     


     


    In five seasons, four of them won't even be IN the NFL anymore if past averages/likelihood is our guide. 


     


     


     


    Per NE's offense ... it didn't help Ballard, Fells, Smith, Hooman, Sudfeld, Kellen Winslow or anyone else flourish. 


     


     


     


     


    [/QUOTE]


     


     


     


     


    What is with all your lists?  You are missing the point here, Z.

    Ballard, Fells, Smith, Hooman, Sudfeld, lmao!  Seriously?  I would take all 5 of the top 5 TE's in this years draft over that list all day long, every year long.  That list you posted is rediculous when you compare it to the top 5 TE's in this years draft.  That is what is so special about this TE class this year.  All 5.. Ebron, Amaro, Niklas, ASJ, and Fiedorwicz would have been huge in this Patriots offense.   Again, I am only talking abou the Patriots offense, some of them might not do well with other teams but all 5 were sure things in this offense.  Pats missed here, hope they don't go into this season without addressing the TE need, because last year was an epic fail at TE.


    [/QUOTE]

    Nope. 


     


    None of them were sure things in any offense. It's the draft! There is no such thing as a sure thing. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to mbeaulieu07's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    Rank Player Name Playable Positions College Rating - Grade Year
    1 Weston Richburg OG C Colorado State 6.371 - 2nd Round 2014
    2 Marcus Martin OG C USC 5.935 - 3rd Round 2014
    3 Gabe Ikard OG C Oklahoma 5.792 - 3rd Round 2014
    4 Ryan Groy OT OG C Wisconsin 5.747 - 3rd Round 2014
    5 Bryan Stork OG C Florida State 5.738 - 3rd Round 2014


     


     


     


    What makes this player NASTY? (Strengths)
    Good communicator. Veteran OL who has the respect of his teammates. Has shown the athleticism to man several line positions. Spent the 2012 spring at RT. Began the 2011 season as the team’s starting left guard before sliding over to center for the remainder of the season. In 2010, he started at RG. At OG (not OC), he can get his hands on NGs/DTs, quickly off the ball. As an OC, he's urgent passing off line games. Excellent communicator in the pre-snap. Precise hand placement in his pass pro. Re-anchors well vs. power. Moves well. Times his chip blocks on front side runs. Keeps his body in a position to get to the second portion of his assignment vs. the LB. Has proven capable of releasing and showing foot speed on screen passes (Wake Forest ’12). Does a good job of wheeling his frame to re-anchor at the POA vs. power. Stood out during the 2014 Senior Bowl practices. Sat down and handled power.


     


    Weaknesses
    Added weight does not look all the way proportioned. Average build. Illness forced him to miss time in 2010. Not a real snap in the hips blocker. Gets into trouble when he relies on his quickness and tries to block to half a man. Loses his hand location after the snap on inside zone runs. Can be overpowered by larger NGs/DTs. Was dominated at times by Georgia Tech’s TJ Barnes in the 2012 ACC Championship game.


     


    Other Notes
    • Was recruited after mainly playing tight end at Vero Beach HS (FL) • Led Seminole linemen with 27 knockdown blocks in 2011; gave up just three sacks • Shared the team’s Don Powell Award (recognizes the team’s Unsung Hero) with LB Nick Moody in 2012 • 2012 2nd Team All-ACC selection (coaches) • 2014 NFL Combine: 32 1/4" arms, 10 1/8" hands


     


    Time to get NASTY (Our Summary)...
    Stork benefits from a high football IQ and unique understanding of the position. Rarely will you see him get into trouble with his assignments and he's generally a finisher. He seemed to be a little more decisive handling defensive tackles with girth at guard rather than center. In 2013, he flashed improved hand placement and anchor strength. At his size, he'll compete for a starting job at offensive center early but we feel he can give a team repetitions as a backup at a couple of other positions on an offensive line. He carries mid-round value entering the 2014 NFL Draft.


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for posting.  We will have to see what happens with him in NE.  I still think he was picked to high and could have got him later.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    ZB, This is about as intelligent and carefully analytical a series of posts as I've seen in the years I've been posting here.  I say that not merely because I happen to agree but also because there is a level of insight and factual knowledge of subject not often found here. Thank you for taking the time to post what your research has produced and for offering some measure of reassurance and perspective.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     



    No team in the NFL has been more successful than the Pats for the last decade going on two.


     


     


     


    Again you show you don't know squat about building an NFL team in the real world.


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Again, I ask how long it has been since we won a SB?  Yes, its nice to have winning seasons year after year but the goal is to win SB's.


    [/QUOTE]


    Again you show your ignorance of football reality. Once you get to the Conference Championship level, luck,  and I'm not talking Andrew, desire, and "any given day" has more influence than anything else. What team has been to more Superbowls since the 2000 season? What team has been to more Superbowls in the last 5 years?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    Again you show your ignorance of football reality. Once you get to the Conference Championship level, luck,  and I'm not talking Andrew, desire, and "any given day" has more influence than anything else. What team has been to more Superbowls since the 2000 season? What team has been to more Superbowls in the last 5 years?


    [/QUOTE]



    When was the last time we won a SB?  That's what the goal is.  I can't believe how dumb you are.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    Hey rtuinila, do you have a pile of 2nd place and participation trophies that you cherish?  Lmao!  Sounds like you are happy just being close to the top. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Hey rtuinila, do you have a pile of 2nd place and participation trophies that you cherish?  Lmao!  Sounds like you are happy just being close to the top. 


    [/QUOTE]

    If I did have some 2nd place trophies and participation trophies, I'm sure it would be more than you have. I do have one trophy, so to speak, from the best team on earth and I am proud of that one.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     



    Again you show your ignorance of football reality. Once you get to the Conference Championship level, luck,  and I'm not talking Andrew, desire, and "any given day" has more influence than anything else. What team has been to more Superbowls since the 2000 season? What team has been to more Superbowls in the last 5 years?


     


    [/QUOTE]



     


    When was the last time we won a SB?  That's what the goal is.  I can't believe how dumb you are.


    [/QUOTE]


    "We" have never won a superbowl. I can't believe how dumb you are!


     


     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    "We" have never won a superbowl. I can't believe how dumb you are!


     


    [/QUOTE]



    OMG!  Seriously dude.  What a child. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Let's take the reaction to Stork's selection. I'm literally chuckling at the farce. It took about two seconds for Stork to be selected until a couple of posters chimed in "Short arms, stiff hips?


    [/QUOTE]

    Short armed guys don't pick up dinner tabs.  For a guy big enough to eat a cow at every meal that's a concern if you are his dinner companion.  Other than that, I'm fine with the pick.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninpa420. Show patsfaninpa420's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    Overall I'm not unhappy with the draft although the pick of Garoppalo is kind of depressing. Not because I think it's a wasted pick but only because he was taken in the second round. I can't see a qb taken that high being used a trade bait in the future and I think it's highly likely that he will be Brady's replacement. Will he be the next Brady, most likely not. Will he be good? Who's to say? Only time will tell, but to me this pick is a good indication that we are definitely seeing the last years of Brady. Yeah yeah we all know it's coming, but there's a difference between expecting it and actually having to deal with it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     



    "We" have never won a superbowl. I can't believe how dumb you are!


     


     


     


    [/QUOTE]



     


    OMG!  Seriously dude.  What a child. 


    [/QUOTE]

    No really, you think you have contributed to winning a superbowl. You may not consciously think that but subconsciously you do. That explains  everything!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to rtuinila's comment:



    No really, you think you have contributed to winning a superbowl. You may not consciously think that but subconsciously you do. That explains  everything!



     



     And that's just plain idiotic.  You sir.... are a loser.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to patsfaninpa420's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Overall I'm not unhappy with the draft although the pick of Garoppalo is kind of depressing. Not because I think it's a wasted pick but only because he was taken in the second round. I can't see a qb taken that high being used a trade bait in the future and I think it's highly likely that he will be Brady's replacement. Will he be the next Brady, most likely not. Will he be good? Who's to say? Only time will tell, but to me this pick is a good indication that we are definitely seeing the last years of Brady. Yeah yeah we all know it's coming, but there's a difference between expecting it and actually having to deal with it.


    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I feel the same way. But as much as Brady is the best, really my GOAT pick only after Montana, time marches on. I was a Patriots fan before him, and I will be a fan long after him. 


    But at some point soon Brady will be a memory of past greatness. And whether New England selects Garoppolo now or someone else later, that fact will not change. Either way, we'll have the memories. 


    I accept the inevitability. I believe now, when Tom has three years under contract, is the perfect time to select a player high. With a 2nd round selection you get top tier talent at a guaranteed 4 year contract. That means NE will have locked this guy up for the year Brady is 39>40 and moving on to another contract. 


    As much as that hurts, would you rather be the Broncos after Elway or the 49ers after Montana? Or perhaps more apropos, would you rather be the Colts after Manning or the Packers after Favre? I'll take the early shot that Garoppolo can be that good.


    I'd much rather this than having to endure another season like 1990 or 1992. I really don't want to have to stomach it, especially considering it will be wasting prime years of other talented players. 


     


    If JG is that good New England can look forward to another decade of greatness AND the great memories of what Brady accomplished.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    ZB, This is about as intelligent and carefully analytical a series of posts as I've seen in the years I've been posting here.  I say that not merely because I happen to agree but also because there is a level of insight and factual knowledge of subject not often found here. Thank you for taking the time to post what your research has produced and for offering some measure of reassurance and perspective.


    [/QUOTE]


    Spot on!!!!!!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Talking them off the ledge.... (Draft)

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     


    Let's take the reaction to Stork's selection. I'm literally chuckling at the farce. It took about two seconds for Stork to be selected until a couple of posters chimed in "Short arms, stiff hips?


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Short armed guys don't pick up dinner tabs.  For a guy big enough to eat a cow at every meal that's a concern if you are his dinner companion.  Other than that, I'm fine with the pick.


    [/QUOTE]


    Zing!

     

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