Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    T. Wilson though I think we can judge. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes which to me sends up red flares not red flags.

     

     


    So is it too early or not?  You seem to have taken both positions.  Plus all of this "he doesn't learn from his mistakes narrative" seems to me to be the result of one game last season and a one off comment about a play he missed during practice this year.  Pretty weak stuff right there imo.  I'd still prefer to wait until the games matter again.  Maybe that makes me a homer, but it seems to me that many of the draft naysayers (not saying you specifically) never think one good season from a draft pick means he was a good pick, but they are willing to call a guy a bust after one season.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I think some of us have lost a little patience (myself included) with some players we have selected in the secondary (with good reason). I waited for Merriweather to develop, Chung, Wheatley, Butler, McGowen, Bodden...on and on and on. So when they reached for Wilson I wanted to see a player that we just had to have...that was a top secret talent that would make the rest of the NFL wish they had him. So far he has looked like an undrafted free agent - now that could change - but you can't blame people for not having faith that it will.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Mohamad Sanu?  The guy whose rookie numbers were essentially equivalent to the immortal Chad Jackson?

    Vinny Curry?  The guy who barely played and didn't record a sack in his rookie year?

    The LBs you mentioned have been good so far, but we had already drafted Hightower.  Seems a bit overkill.

    We already had a backup QB in Mallett.  You wanted to spend another high pick on another backup QB?

    Peter Konz?  The guy who struggled terribly in pass protection?

    Of course this is all kind of crazy given that Tavon just finished his first season and it's not like he completely sucked.  Other than the Seattle game (and people forget that at that point it was him and Ebner in the back end) he was solid.  Maybe he'll never be a great player.  Maybe he'll end up being a total bust, but it is nuts to say he was a waste of a pick already.  It's even more ridiculous when half the guys you mentioned as guys we could have had have shown even less than Wilson at the NFL level or made zero sense based on team needs and the guys already drafted to that point.




    Nothing like a little perspective to an argument.  Oh sorry, we don't like perspective around here. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    I must confess that I don't see the list of alternative draft selections as missed opportunities so much as choices that the Pats didn't make.  And I'm not making a semantic distinction here.  PCM's point is a good one that, in the context of the team's needs and who they already drafted, selecting a safety with the pick made sense.  The safety they selected was T. Wilson.  The contention that Wilson was a 'reach' and could have been selected in a later round is pure speculation.

    I think the guy showed promise last year and was productive (yes, I do consider 4 picks for a rookie productive).  Did he get burned?  You bet but he was often placed in a pretty tough spot when he was. 

    Finally, as others have so well stated, this is only his second year for crying out loud.  Let's see what happens this year.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    He is what he is. Can he get better,. sure, but the point is we saw him play for a year. He cant come back this year and be E. Reed. He can only get so  much bigger. Aint gonna get faster and is never gonna be able to play cover 2 zone without getting burnt over the top. Why did BB draft Harmon if he was satisfied with Wilson?? I mean we moved DMC to safety, we signed A.Wilson and drafted Harmon ALL after Wilson was drafted. You all can play dum and give this guy the benefit of the doubt till he is gone, but thats your opinion. Dont call us doom and gloomers cuz we believe what our eyes see. Sure he had 4 picks. ALL GIFTS> I have yet to see him anticipate and make a play. He is just another guy. in the 2nd round,u should be trying to get someone who has the ability to be elite or fill a specific role. This guy doesnt excel at anything that I can see. Doesnt seem overly smart of athletic and now he is out trying to light guys up to get noticed and thats not his game. Im sure we drafted James Sanders in the 5th round. Same should have happened with this kid. I call it like I see it. I have predicted many players departures before others wanted to. D.Butler, T.Mackenzie off the top. And I predicted Maroney getting traded a week before it happened. He will be cut or kept for one more year to save face, but if he turns into something, I'll be the first to say My bad, but why wait?  He is just a JAG. Thats not hard to figure out.

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

     

     

    Is Wilson the kid that got burned for TD's, on the same exact play, in consecutive weeks last year?

     

     



    Some good, some bad, sounds like a rookie to me.

     

     




    Exactly. He also thrived in the big nickel as the year went. Not bad for a rookie. I think Gregory gets cut before Wilson. Adrian Wilson is Tavon's tutor, IMO.

     

     



    According to queenie thrived means giving up big play after big play. Not bad for a rookie unless its a rookie that plays for another team.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    Push the kool aid away from the table please. Wilson has done nothing and shown nothing...period.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    If you  consider playing 43% snaps,  tied Hayward leading all rookie safeties in takeaways and being a key special teams player nothing then you are absolutely correct.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    If you  consider playing 43% snaps,  tied Hayward leading all rookie safeties in takeaways and being a key special teams player nothing then you are absolutely correct.




    Stop putting facts out there!  It ruins the doom-and-gloom crowd's fun!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    Wilson didn't light the world on fire last season, but he was still a rookie, a rookie at a tough position, and he is still on the team. He's got enough going for him for me to hold off on turning the wagon around. 

    Ras-I, however, sheesh. That was a waste. Kid can't get to school without skinning his knee.

    There was so much antipathy toward drafting character risk guys after the Hernandez thing ... I'm actually ok with that .... but after Wheatley, Crable, Ras-I I'm totally over grabbing value "injury risks." 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    If you  consider playing 43% snaps,  tied Hayward leading all rookie safeties in takeaways and being a key special teams player nothing then you are absolutely correct.

     




    Stop putting facts out there!  It ruins the doom-and-gloom crowd's fun!

     

     



    not really. I dont know why you think its fun to point out busts on our team. Its a dirty job man. Really tho, I dont think he is a bust, just a reach. I also dont think pointing out a percentage of snaps means anything. I mean we all know BB will throw anyone out there. Idebeho played almost a whole season. Does that mean he is a star? BB threw out Sergio Brown,. Josh Barret, etc for a whole season. Gregory played most of last season and watched most of his assignments run by him,. It just means are defense isnt that good when you can play a rookie that many snaps due to your free agent(gregory) being a bum. Its amazing what lengths some will go to to make a player seem great.  I like him on special teams, but you get those players day 2 and 3,. U dont spend 2nd rd picks on s/ters. I appreciate his 4 pics and him being in the right place, but he is just a jag and in my opinion they should have drafted him later.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    Lets be honest, the pick might have been a little high for him but it is not like he was a contributor last years.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    Push the kool aid away from the table please. Wilson has done nothing and shown nothing...period.



    4 interceptions? Almost half the defensive snaps. You can say he shouldn't have been taken in the second round but he is a important part of the defenisive backfield. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    If you  consider playing 43% snaps,  tied Hayward leading all rookie safeties in takeaways and being a key special teams player nothing then you are absolutely correct.

     




    Stop putting facts out there!  It ruins the doom-and-gloom crowd's fun!

     

     

     



    not really. I dont know why you think its fun to point out busts on our team. Its a dirty job man. Really tho, I dont think he is a bust, just a reach. I also dont think pointing out a percentage of snaps means anything. I mean we all know BB will throw anyone out there. Idebeho played almost a whole season. Does that mean he is a star? BB threw out Sergio Brown,. Josh Barret, etc for a whole season. Gregory played most of last season and watched most of his assignments run by him,. It just means are defense isnt that good when you can play a rookie that many snaps due to your free agent(gregory) being a bum. Its amazing what lengths some will go to to make a player seem great.  I like him on special teams, but you get those players day 2 and 3,. U dont spend 2nd rd picks on s/ters. I appreciate his 4 pics and him being in the right place, but he is just a jag and in my opinion they should have drafted him later.

     




    who said he was a star or great? I was only pointing out he is not a bust as some have labeled him. He contributed in positive ways and as all rookies made mistakes and needs to continue to progress.

    Based on the numbers and performance he was most likely  in the top 5 production wise of all rookie safeties last year. This doesn't make him a star or great just a player who has the ability and potential to be a starting safety in this league.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    T. Wilson though I think we can judge. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes which to me sends up red flares not red flags.

     

     

     

     


    So is it too early or not?  You seem to have taken both positions.  Plus all of this "he doesn't learn from his mistakes narrative" seems to me to be the result of one game last season and a one off comment about a play he missed during practice this year.  Pretty weak stuff right there imo.  I'd still prefer to wait until the games matter again.  Maybe that makes me a homer, but it seems to me that many of the draft naysayers (not saying you specifically) never think one good season from a draft pick means he was a good pick, but they are willing to call a guy a bust after one season.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think some of us have lost a little patience (myself included) with some players we have selected in the secondary (with good reason). I waited for Merriweather to develop, Chung, Wheatley, Butler, McGowen, Bodden...on and on and on. So when they reached for Wilson I wanted to see a player that we just had to have...that was a top secret talent that would make the rest of the NFL wish they had him. So far he has looked like an undrafted free agent - now that could change - but you can't blame people for not having faith that it will.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    How many UFA had the season he had last year. Again people get caught up with the fact they felt he was drafted too high and ignore the season he had.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    If you  consider playing 43% snaps,  tied Hayward leading all rookie safeties in takeaways and being a key special teams player nothing then you are absolutely correct.

     




    Stop putting facts out there!  It ruins the doom-and-gloom crowd's fun!

     

     

     



    not really. I dont know why you think its fun to point out busts on our team. Its a dirty job man. Really tho, I dont think he is a bust, just a reach. I also dont think pointing out a percentage of snaps means anything. I mean we all know BB will throw anyone out there. Idebeho played almost a whole season. Does that mean he is a star? BB threw out Sergio Brown,. Josh Barret, etc for a whole season. Gregory played most of last season and watched most of his assignments run by him,. It just means are defense isnt that good when you can play a rookie that many snaps due to your free agent(gregory) being a bum. Its amazing what lengths some will go to to make a player seem great.  I like him on special teams, but you get those players day 2 and 3,. U dont spend 2nd rd picks on s/ters. I appreciate his 4 pics and him being in the right place, but he is just a jag and in my opinion they should have drafted him later.

     

     




     

    who said he was a star or great? I was only pointing out he is not a bust as some have labeled him. He contributed in positive ways and as all rookies made mistakes and needs to continue to progress.

    Based on the numbers and performance he was most likely  in the top 5 production wise of all rookie safeties last year. This doesn't make him a star or great just a player who has the ability and potential to be a starting safety in this league.




    thats fair and I agree. If he sticks as a starter, then its a good pick. Its just hard to tell who is starting material HERE considering all the scrubs that BB have let get on an NFL field. Where are Josh Barret, S.brown the others?? I mean I just cant over the fact he went into a season with these guys. He actually cut Sanders, Meriweather and Page to go into a season with a bunch of unkowns in a season where Brady was healthy. We got to the freeking SB and lost. Now imagine if BB had taken the S position seriously that offseason....  IJS, lets keep it in perspective. Even if he ends up a starter here which I doubt , what does that mean considering BBs track record for throwing scrubs out there?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

     

    Man…we beat this thing to death over a year ago…but I enjoy beating a dead horse.

    You will never see me say that we could have had a different player at the spot where we took our players. As we all know some picks work out and some don’t.

    If you go and buy a car do you offer up double the asking price? Of course not.

    The point over a year ago was one of value.

    Here is the dead horse again. Wilson was slotted at the 5th at the earliest, and likely the 6th or 7th rd in the draft. Many had him going undrafted.

    I have no problem drafting Wilson. My problem was the round position and not the player. Even at the 4th rd I would have said..fine…not the second.

    Perhaps I’m old school but I want immediate starters in the first 3 rds. I also don’t believe developmental players should be taken that early either. I want starters in rds 1-3 and bench help 4-7 + UFA.

    I did not like the Solder pick as he needed to develop upper and lower body strength and is today still not quite there.

    With the salary cap hanging over every teams head, and early rd players getting signing bonuses, it can get expensive. Rookies are signed now for 4 years (early rds). To reach for a player in terms of needed development means you will not get your full 4 year value before they walk or get paid for their second contract.

    If Wilson does not crack the starting line-up, and I believe he won’t, then you will be paying 2nd rd value for a bench sitter for 2 of the 4 years of his rookie deal.

    That's all I'm sayin' nothing more, nothing less.......

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Man…we beat this thing to death over a year ago…but I enjoy beating a dead horse.

    You will never see me say that we could have had a different player at the spot where we took our players. As we all know some picks work out and some don’t.

    If you go and buy a car do you offer up double the asking price? Of course not.

    The point over a year ago was one of value.

    Here is the dead horse again. Wilson was slotted at the 5th at the earliest, and likely the 6th or 7th rd in the draft. Many had him going undrafted.

    I have no problem drafting Wilson. My problem was the round position and not the player. Even at the 4th rd I would have said..fine…not the second.

    Perhaps I’m old school but I want immediate starters in the first 3 rds. I also don’t believe developmental players should be taken that early either. I want starters in rds 1-3 and bench help 4-7 + UFA.

    I did not like the Solder pick as he needed to develop upper and lower body strength and is today still not quite there.

    With the salary cap hanging over every teams head, and early rd players getting signing bonuses, it can get expensive. Rookies are signed now for 4 years (early rds). To reach for a player in terms of needed development means you will not get your full 4 year value before they walk or get paid for their second contract.

    If Wilson does not crack the starting line-up, and I believe he won’t, then you will be paying 2nd rd value for a bench sitter for 2 of the 4 years of his rookie deal.

    That's all I'm sayin' nothing more, nothing less.......



    That is completely different then saying he has done nothing and shown nothing. At this point who cares about the pick number. He has shown he can play and contribute at the NFL which is both showing or doing something.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    I honestly believe you are looking at the situation incorrectly. BB is not going to draft the best college player available. Most likely he is not going to draft the best potential pro player. He is going to draft the player he feels will fit into his system the best.

    T Wilson did not set the world on fire in college. But BB wants a S that will offer very good run support, create turn overs, and be able to cover most TE's when called upon. In this system, the S is going to give up pass plays. BB will live with those every now and then as long as the S is carrying out his primary assignment.

    Thats why yoy cannot look at other players that have done well elsewhere andlament that they ere passed over here. CMathews is always the prime example of "we should have taken him"! But in BB's system, Clay would not have been able to set the edge, would have been caught looking in at the QB and bite on play action, etc, etc....BB would not have set Clay loose to simply chase the QB playing this defense.  

    So many point to the fact that TWilson is giving up pass plays, same as last year. But he is also supporting the run in a big way, creating turnovers and covering most TE's. I would assume BB is very happy with that in a 2nd year player.

    Compare him to Merriwhether..look at Merri's stats...QB pressures, fumbles caused, defensive player of the week, pro bowl selection....but the next PRSEASON he is released, because he wasnt playing BB's system the way BB wanted him to....T WIlson is playing the system the way BB wants him to.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    T. Wilson though I think we can judge. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes which to me sends up red flares not red flags.

     

     

     

     

     

     


    So is it too early or not?  You seem to have taken both positions.  Plus all of this "he doesn't learn from his mistakes narrative" seems to me to be the result of one game last season and a one off comment about a play he missed during practice this year.  Pretty weak stuff right there imo.  I'd still prefer to wait until the games matter again.  Maybe that makes me a homer, but it seems to me that many of the draft naysayers (not saying you specifically) never think one good season from a draft pick means he was a good pick, but they are willing to call a guy a bust after one season.  

     



    I think some of us have lost a little patience (myself included) with some players we have selected in the secondary (with good reason). I waited for Merriweather to develop, Chung, Wheatley, Butler, McGowen, Bodden...on and on and on. So when they reached for Wilson I wanted to see a player that we just had to have...that was a top secret talent that would make the rest of the NFL wish they had him. So far he has looked like an undrafted free agent - now that could change - but you can't blame people for not having faith that it will.

     

     



    How many UFA had the season he had last year. Again people get caught up with the fact they felt he was drafted too high and ignore the season he had.

     




    I'd have to go back and do some research to find undrafted free agents that had a pulse, an oppurtunity, a skeleton system, two feet and were able to stand out on a field masquarading as contributers.

    I'm kidding, but what is it with the obsession over players that "start" here? Especially when they are starting because there are no better players currently on the roster. It happened with Maroney, Merriweather, Chung, Brace, Tate...and more. These are the guys we signed, drafted...eventually the resources are gone to acquire anything better and we have to play them. It's not a good thing. And it wasn't happening ten years ago. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I honestly believe you are looking at the situation incorrectly. BB is not going to draft the best college player available. Most likely he is not going to draft the best potential pro player. He is going to draft the player he feels will fit into his system the best.

    T Wilson did not set the world on fire in college. But BB wants a S that will offer very good run support, create turn overs, and be able to cover most TE's when called upon. In this system, the S is going to give up pass plays. BB will live with those every now and then as long as the S is carrying out his primary assignment.

    Thats why yoy cannot look at other players that have done well elsewhere andlament that they ere passed over here. CMathews is always the prime example of "we should have taken him"! But in BB's system, Clay would not have been able to set the edge, would have been caught looking in at the QB and bite on play action, etc, etc....BB would not have set Clay loose to simply chase the QB playing this defense.  

    So many point to the fact that TWilson is giving up pass plays, same as last year. But he is also supporting the run in a big way, creating turnovers and covering most TE's. I would assume BB is very happy with that in a 2nd year player.

    Compare him to Merriwhether..look at Merri's stats...QB pressures, fumbles caused, defensive player of the week, pro bowl selection....but the next PRSEASON he is released, because he wasnt playing BB's system the way BB wanted him to....T WIlson is playing the system the way BB wants him to.



    EXCEPT when he is in cover 2. I dont think BB likes his biting up and taking the cheese and letting recievers get behind him for TD's.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I honestly believe you are looking at the situation incorrectly. BB is not going to draft the best college player available. Most likely he is not going to draft the best potential pro player. He is going to draft the player he feels will fit into his system the best.

    T Wilson did not set the world on fire in college. But BB wants a S that will offer very good run support, create turn overs, and be able to cover most TE's when called upon. In this system, the S is going to give up pass plays. BB will live with those every now and then as long as the S is carrying out his primary assignment.

    Thats why yoy cannot look at other players that have done well elsewhere andlament that they ere passed over here. CMathews is always the prime example of "we should have taken him"! But in BB's system, Clay would not have been able to set the edge, would have been caught looking in at the QB and bite on play action, etc, etc....BB would not have set Clay loose to simply chase the QB playing this defense.  

    So many point to the fact that TWilson is giving up pass plays, same as last year. But he is also supporting the run in a big way, creating turnovers and covering most TE's. I would assume BB is very happy with that in a 2nd year player.

    Compare him to Merriwhether..look at Merri's stats...QB pressures, fumbles caused, defensive player of the week, pro bowl selection....but the next PRSEASON he is released, because he wasnt playing BB's system the way BB wanted him to....T WIlson is playing the system the way BB wants him to.

     



    EXCEPT when he is in cover 2. I dont think BB likes his biting up and taking the cheese and letting recievers get behind him for TD's.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    of course he doesnt "like" it...but his primary responsibility is run support, create turnovers and cover the TE...getting beat deep by a speed WR is going to also be part of the package in playing this defense.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

     

    I honestly believe you are looking at the situation incorrectly. BB is not going to draft the best college player available. Most likely he is not going to draft the best potential pro player. He is going to draft the player he feels will fit into his system the best.

    T Wilson did not set the world on fire in college. But BB wants a S that will offer very good run support, create turn overs, and be able to cover most TE's when called upon. In this system, the S is going to give up pass plays. BB will live with those every now and then as long as the S is carrying out his primary assignment.

    Thats why yoy cannot look at other players that have done well elsewhere andlament that they ere passed over here. CMathews is always the prime example of "we should have taken him"! But in BB's system, Clay would not have been able to set the edge, would have been caught looking in at the QB and bite on play action, etc, etc....BB would not have set Clay loose to simply chase the QB playing this defense.  

    So many point to the fact that TWilson is giving up pass plays, same as last year. But he is also supporting the run in a big way, creating turnovers and covering most TE's. I would assume BB is very happy with that in a 2nd year player.

    Compare him to Merriwhether..look at Merri's stats...QB pressures, fumbles caused, defensive player of the week, pro bowl selection....but the next PRSEASON he is released, because he wasnt playing BB's system the way BB wanted him to....T WIlson is playing the system the way BB wants him to.

     

     



    EXCEPT when he is in cover 2. I dont think BB likes his biting up and taking the cheese and letting recievers get behind him for TD's.

     

     



    of course he doesnt "like" it...but his primary responsibility is run support, create turnovers and cover the TE...getting beat deep by a speed WR is going to also be part of the package in playing this defense.

     

     



    Na I get what you are saying. Im just playing. The thing is a safety has to do a lot of things in this system. It was nice to have Rodney who could help over the top in any defense, play the run, get turnovers, cover TEs AND slot WR's and even play CB on marvin harrison. We were spoiled and now BB has to bring in 3 guys just to do one job and I cant say that is ideal. If you are limited to the point that BB has to draft another guy at your position to be on the field on certain defenses that you cant play in, thats a problem IMO. esp. considering how long its been since Rodney left. 5 years or really 6 when u consider you should draft his replacement before he retires, and we have a stiff f/a like Gregory in the mix, and 2 reaches who together make a competent safety. Color me Un- enthused. Sorry.  I have gone back and forth on this for a while. Is BB's system too complicated or he is really that bad at finding secondary players??  He had to trade for a troubled player just to get this secondary playing good. If not for Talib where would we be?

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonPatriots. Show BostonPatriots's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Drafting is a machine gun approach, you shoot as many bullets as possible, inflicting maximum damage.  Our GM provides us with the bullets, so by my estimation he deserves to shoot the gun. Success isn't a by product of luck, the opposite is true.

    If Tavon isn't good enough and Harmon gets the job done well, than who are you guys to judge unless you could do better, none of us probably could if the history written on these webpages are any indicator, and also why many professional football GM's hit on such a small % of their draft picks.

     

     



    That is the worst way to draft. How many picks did we waste and continue to waste to find a CB? McCourty moved to safety (and I love McCourty but he was drafted as a CB), Butler, Ras, Wheatley, Meriweather (many forget he was drafted as a CB before moving to FS during camp), Wilhite. A machine gun approach only costs you in the end. It's said a machine gun keeps you in the fight but a sniper can change the course of war with a single bullet. I personally liked what they did with Jones and Hightower. They targetted two high talented players with better chances of succeeding earlier in the draft and executed getting both. They didn't trade back to get bullets and hope that maybe one would hit it's mark down the line.

     

     




    Lott was moved and Meriweather was NEVER drafted as a CB. They used him in nickel as a rookie due to a LOADED, veteran D, so BB had him on the field to get reps to eventually replace the versatile Harrison.

     

    Samuel was a 4th rd pick. Sometimes I think BB's selection of him and his growth has completely skewed our fans expectations at CB.

    Eugene Wilson was moved, not Meriweather. Who cares where the person ends up?  Vrabel was a 4-3 DE and sucked in Pitt. He came here, as a 3-4 OLB and thrived.

    I could go on and on. Who cares where they played in college and where the best coach in NFL history puts the player?

    And finally, the reason why the machine gun approach Wozzy talks about is not the worst way to draft is because the players you are selecting are coming in as prospects from the NCAA.

    if you have 2 picks in each rd for example, it's better than 1.

    Obviously.  People like you never read NE Pats Management Secrets Vol 1 and 2. There is a very cerebral approach to whom they draft and why. It's not perfect, nothing is, but I have not witnessed a better system in the cap era.

    It's why I can guarantee 10+ wins every year for my team, Brady or no Brady. BB is always 2 and 3 steps ahead.

    53 players, cap era, etc. Not easy but he makes it appear that way.




    Sounds good, and stated with such conviction!  But its hard to say how much of this is accurate.  For sure not the part about Pittsburgh playing a 4-3, and Vrable playing DE.  Simply put, this is WRONG.  MVP played DE at OSU typical the prototype small DE drafted to play OLB.  He was not able to crack the starting lineup in Pittsburgh given the depth, experience, and prospects they had at the position during that time, thankfully.

    im not sure what else in that post was completely inaccurate, just knew that one off the top.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    T. Wilson though I think we can judge. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes which to me sends up red flares not red flags.

     

     

     

     

     

     


    So is it too early or not?  You seem to have taken both positions.  Plus all of this "he doesn't learn from his mistakes narrative" seems to me to be the result of one game last season and a one off comment about a play he missed during practice this year.  Pretty weak stuff right there imo.  I'd still prefer to wait until the games matter again.  Maybe that makes me a homer, but it seems to me that many of the draft naysayers (not saying you specifically) never think one good season from a draft pick means he was a good pick, but they are willing to call a guy a bust after one season.  

     



    I think some of us have lost a little patience (myself included) with some players we have selected in the secondary (with good reason). I waited for Merriweather to develop, Chung, Wheatley, Butler, McGowen, Bodden...on and on and on. So when they reached for Wilson I wanted to see a player that we just had to have...that was a top secret talent that would make the rest of the NFL wish they had him. So far he has looked like an undrafted free agent - now that could change - but you can't blame people for not having faith that it will.

     

     



    How many UFA had the season he had last year. Again people get caught up with the fact they felt he was drafted too high and ignore the season he had.

     

     




    I'd have to go back and do some research to find undrafted free agents that had a pulse, an oppurtunity, a skeleton system, two feet and were able to stand out on a field masquarading as contributers.

     

    I'm kidding, but what is it with the obsession over players that "start" here? Especially when they are starting because there are no better players currently on the roster. It happened with Maroney, Merriweather, Chung, Brace, Tate...and more. These are the guys we signed, drafted...eventually the resources are gone to acquire anything better and we have to play them. It's not a good thing. And it wasn't happening ten years ago. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't understand. It is like you are incapable of talking about Wilson. The fact that you can't admit that contributed decently this year is just silly. How does Brandon Tate effect Wilson. i understand if the player isn't a HOFer he is a bust but other than being a bit reach how can you knock the production of Wilson last year. It is like you don't follow this team at all.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson. A Look Back at the Missed Opportunities

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    T. Wilson though I think we can judge. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes which to me sends up red flares not red flags.

     

     

     

     

     

     


    So is it too early or not?  You seem to have taken both positions.  Plus all of this "he doesn't learn from his mistakes narrative" seems to me to be the result of one game last season and a one off comment about a play he missed during practice this year.  Pretty weak stuff right there imo.  I'd still prefer to wait until the games matter again.  Maybe that makes me a homer, but it seems to me that many of the draft naysayers (not saying you specifically) never think one good season from a draft pick means he was a good pick, but they are willing to call a guy a bust after one season.  

     



    I think some of us have lost a little patience (myself included) with some players we have selected in the secondary (with good reason). I waited for Merriweather to develop, Chung, Wheatley, Butler, McGowen, Bodden...on and on and on. So when they reached for Wilson I wanted to see a player that we just had to have...that was a top secret talent that would make the rest of the NFL wish they had him. So far he has looked like an undrafted free agent - now that could change - but you can't blame people for not having faith that it will.

     

     



    How many UFA had the season he had last year. Again people get caught up with the fact they felt he was drafted too high and ignore the season he had.

     

     

     




    I'd have to go back and do some research to find undrafted free agents that had a pulse, an oppurtunity, a skeleton system, two feet and were able to stand out on a field masquarading as contributers.

     

     

    I'm kidding, but what is it with the obsession over players that "start" here? Especially when they are starting because there are no better players currently on the roster. It happened with Maroney, Merriweather, Chung, Brace, Tate...and more. These are the guys we signed, drafted...eventually the resources are gone to acquire anything better and we have to play them. It's not a good thing. And it wasn't happening ten years ago. 



    I don't understand. It is like you are incapable of talking about Wilson. The fact that you can't admit that contributed decently this year is just silly. How does Brandon Tate effect Wilson. i understand if the player isn't a HOFer he is a bust but other than being a bit reach how can you knock the production of Wilson last year. It is like you don't follow this team at all.

     



    What the hell did he do that constitutes for a good season? He had a few interceptions that fell into his lap. Did you see him covering tight ends? Did you see him blowing up running plays? Playing in the box effectively? Playing deep with range and smarts?

    I don't care that he got four picks - he did a similar amount of damage against us. We brought in a safety through free agency and drafted another, not because he had a very good rookie season, but because he didn't. I could see the blind love for the guy if he stood 6'3" and ran a 4.4...or flashed smarts beyond his years, but instead he did/showed none of that.

     
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