Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : +1
    Posted by rtuinila[/QUOTE]

    +2

     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      I don't think Zook convinced BB. My guess is that BB convinced himself...based on seeing the raw materials in Wilson's game. As I've previously stated, my fear is that BB's ego is getting in the way...and that he feels he can manufacture a good safety out of Wilson.       
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    How do you know this?  Were you in the war room?

     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report


    Hey, we all needed a new dead horse to replace the old "whose responsible for the Super Bowl loss" dead horse . . . 
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Obviously, you haven't read Kipers' Draft Report, OurLads Guide to the 2012 Draft, or the ProFootball Weekly 2012 Draft Preview. If you had, you would know that they're not sold at WalMart, or any other store. You have to order them online. Who are you to judge the quality of these publications, when he haven't even read them?      For the last time, my complaint about Wilson centers upon WHERE HE WAS DRAFTED. If he was a 5th round pick, I wouldn't have a problem with BB selecting him.       Finally, as much as I respect and admire BB for what he has accomplished in football, he is not infallible, and is subject to criticism. Whether you like hearing it or not, his track record for selecting players in the draft, from 2006-10, is not very good. What has saved him, and saved the team, is that he is the greatest head coach of all-time. As such, he can still win, even though he may not have the best players. Of course, it also helps to have perhaps the greatest QB of all-time, running his offense.         
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    You are right.  I stopped reading Pro Football Weekly shortly after Joel B's death.  The others simply are not worth reading since the generic info is readily available on the internet.  And yes the PFW magazine is available in just about any store that sells magazines the draft book is not... But that is neither here nor there.

    I AM ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE AWARE THAT THE PATS HAVE WON AN AVERAGE OF 13.5 GAMES IN THE BRADY ERA.

    JUST WHERE ON THE FIELD ARE THESE PICKS GOING TO PLAY WHEN YOUR TEAM JUST WON 13 GAMES?  BB has had his share of misses to that there is no doubt... But just who are these teams that are so much better than the Pat's?

    I suggest you take a long look at the 2nd round results over the past decade.  There are plenty of good players to be sure, but there are allot of NAMES that never amounted to anything.  You make it sound like that pick had a halo of future pro bowlers hovering around it, when that is most likely not the case!

    Here is a little break down on the chances of picking up a "GEM" in the first round of the draft.  I know you think it is a piece of cake to do so but apparently the NFL must be run by a bunch of blind monkeys taking shots with dull darts 'cus their track record aint as good as yours.

    Picking a Winner

    by Bo Mitchell
    SportsData

    Any football fan who’s been paying an iota of attention knows by now that the Indianapolis Colts are taking Stanford quarterbackAndrew Luck with the first overall pick in this week’s NFL Draft. In fact, they’ve already told him he’s the pick. After Luck is gone, the Washington Redskins will be handing a jersey and hat to Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III as the second pick. That much we know for sure.

    The Minnesota Vikings have the third pick and their general manager Rick Spielman strategically told the St. Paul Pioneer Press last week that he’s considering taking one of three blue-chip prospects: USC left tackle Matt Kalil, LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne or Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon.

    All of the aforementioned players are sure-fire, can’t-miss prospects, right? Future Pro Bowlers? Maybe even Hall of Famers.

    Not so fast.

    The fact is recent history says most players selected in the first round of the NFL draft never live up to their lofty expectations. Actually, most of them (69% over the last 10 years) haven’t made it to Honolulu, Hawaii for even one Pro Bowl appearance. Top-three picks are no exception.

    That reality is a swift kick to the store for frenzied fans and general managers. It’s enough to kill the buzz of anyone currently dreaming of an instant-impact or franchise type of player falling to them in Thursday night’s first round.

    As SportsData’s “From 1st Round to Pro Bowl” Infographic below details, if the past decade is any indication only about 10 players selected in the first round this year will make it to the Pro Bowl.

    As you can see Tex IT IS VERY ULIKELY (83%) THAT A TEAM COULD PICK UP A MULTIPLE PRO BOWLER IN THE FIRST ROUND.  It aint gonna get any better in the second round or down at the bottom of the 1st where the pats commonly troll due to their record.

    SO TELLL US AGAIN TEX... WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR BEEF WITH TAVON?

    Oh Yeah that's right... I keep forgetting how many AWESOME PRO BOWL CALIBER PLAYERS there are in the middle of the second round.






     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]You guys still at it huh? Like I said before, You guys get waaaay too worked up over pics. We are a SB team that only needed to fix a couple things. We had a very active free agency. T.Wilson has Gregrory, Chung, and McCourty in front of him. He wasnt bought here to start, but rather be a subpackage safety which he will excel at. The reason he was off the radar is because he didnt have a true position. He sacrificed for the team and played whereever they needed so he didnt excel at one thing, but he had 81 tackles last year(Hightower had 85) and he was always around the ball. Most film I saw he was LCB and RCB, he will be a roving dime back here. Relax
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : You are right.  I stopped reading Pro Football Weekly shortly after Joel B's death.  The others simply are not worth reading since the generic info is readily available on the internet.  And yes the PFW magazine is available in just about any store that sells magazines the draft book is not... But that is neither here nor there. I AM ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE AWARE THAT THE PATS HAVE WON AN AVERAGE OF 13.5 GAMES IN THE BRADY ERA. JUST WHERE ON THE FIELD ARE THESE PICKS GOING TO PLAY WHEN YOUR TEAM JUST WON 13 GAMES?  BB has had his share of misses to that there is no doubt... But just who are these teams that are so much better than the Pat's? I suggest you take a long look at the 2nd round results over the past decade.  There are plenty of good players to be sure, but there are allot of NAMES that never amounted to anything.  You make it sound like that pick had a halo of future pro bowlers hovering around it, when that is most likely not the case! Here is a little break down on the chances of picking up a "GEM" in the first round of the draft.  I know you think it is a piece of cake to do so but apparently the NFL must be run by a bunch of blind monkeys taking shots with dull darts 'cus their track record aint as good as yours. Picking a Winner by Bo Mitchell SportsData Any football fan who’s been paying an iota of attention knows by now that the Indianapolis Colts are taking Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck  with the first overall pick in this week’s NFL Draft. In fact, they’ve already told him he’s the pick. After Luck is gone, the Washington Redskins will be handing a jersey and hat to Baylor quarterback  Robert Griffin III  as the second pick. That much we know for sure. The Minnesota Vikings have the third pick and their general manager Rick Spielman strategically told the St. Paul Pioneer Press last week that he’s considering taking one of three blue-chip prospects: USC left tackle  Matt Kalil , LSU cornerback  Morris Claiborne  or Oklahoma State wide receiver  Justin Blackmon . All of the aforementioned players are sure-fire, can’t-miss prospects, right? Future Pro Bowlers? Maybe even Hall of Famers. Not so fast. The fact is recent history says most players selected in the first round of the NFL draft never live up to their lofty expectations. Actually, most of them (69% over the last 10 years) haven’t made it to Honolulu, Hawaii for even one Pro Bowl appearance. Top-three picks are no exception. That reality is a swift kick to the store for frenzied fans and general managers. It’s enough to kill the buzz of anyone currently dreaming of an instant-impact or franchise type of player falling to them in Thursday night’s first round. As SportsData’s “From 1 st  Round to Pro Bowl” Infographic below details, if the past decade is any indication only about 10 players selected in the first round this year will make it to the Pro Bowl. As you can see Tex IT IS VERY ULIKELY (83%) THAT A TEAM COULD PICK UP A MULTIPLE PRO BOWLER IN THE FIRST ROUND.  It aint gonna get any better in the second round or down at the bottom of the 1st where the pats commonly troll due to their record. SO TELLL US AGAIN TEX... WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR BEEF WITH TAVON? Oh Yeah that's right... I keep forgetting how many AWESOME PRO BOWL CALIBER PLAYERS there are in the middle of the second round.
    Posted by mar10[/QUOTE]

         And your point is? What does this have to do with the fact that BB took a guy projected to be a 6th round pick at best, in round 7? If it's really all a crap-shoot, as you seem to be arguing, then why bother stockpiling first and second round picks? Why not trade away the top choices every year for a bunch of 5-7th round picks?

         What does the fact that BB has won 12-13 games per season have to do with the Tavon Wilson pick? He's got Tom Brady, and he's the greatest coach of all-time. The guy can win with lesser talent. Where his poor drafting is being exposed is in the big games, against the better teams. The Patriots don't seem to be winning those like they once did, when they had a defense:
    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5380_Naughty_Nurse%3A_New_England_Patriots_are_bi-polar.html
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Upon posting in the thread entitled, "Just a Quick Question", it dawned upon me why BB decided to select FS Tavon Wilson at #48. The author of that thread asked the simple question, "Who do you think BB should have taken at #48?" This was my response:      At #48, I would have traded down. If there are no takers, or the offers were not good enough, BB should have drafted either DT Jerel Worthy, or DT/DE Kendall Reyes, due to his versatility. Of the two, I'd lean towards Worthy, who played against better competition.       At #62, I would attempt to trade down. If that were impossible, I'd address the secondary...either CB Trumaine Johnson, Brandon Hardin, or even consider  Wilson, at this point.       Looking at it from this perspective, I can better understand why BB took Wilson at #48. When you look at the remaining candidates at FS from #48 on,  there's little available. Brandon Taylor is a SS. But, if the Pats took Hardin, Wilson or Johnson at #62, they would not have been able to select Jake Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert, in the later rounds .       Though I still see Wilson as a reach...BB obviously saw FS to be a major hole in the Pats' "D". If he thought that Wilson was the next best available FS by far, after Barron and Harrison Smith...this, in conjunction with his dearth of draft choices, makes his Wilson decision at #48 appear to be much more sensible.      If he waits to take Wilson at #62, he'd have lost out of Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert. If he traded down with GB as he did, and took Bequette at #90, he'd be gambling that Wilson would be around late in round 5...and again he would lose out on Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert.  
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]
    This is what many of us have been saying since the pick.  Well, a couple hours after the pick, once the shock wore off.

    +1
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : How do you know this?  Were you in the war room?
    Posted by mar10[/QUOTE]

         What a koolaider...LOL!!! Why would I have to be in the waroom to come up with this opinion? It's based on observation of what has occurred...and trying to make sense out of the Wilson move. Wilson's body of work in college was no  where near impressive enough to justify him being selected at #48.

         But...go ahead and tell me again...BB picked him, so it must be right....LOL!!!   

         
         
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      What a koolaider...LOL!!! Why would I have to be in the waroom to come up with this opinion? It's based on observation of what has occurred...and trying to make sense out of the Wilson move. Wilson's body of work in college was no  where near impressive enough to justify him being selected at #48.      But...go ahead and tell me again...BB picked him, so it must be right....LOL !!!               
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Belichick, who like others has made his share of draft mistakes, compared the situation to offensive tackle Sebastian Vollmer coming out of the 2009 draft. Vollmer wasn't invited to the combine and thus was considered a reach among analysts (two seasons later, he was named second-team All-Pro).

     

    A selection like Vollmer, and Wilson this year, highlights the differences between the scouting process of an NFL team versus media analysts who might rely on the combine and all-star games to narrow down a large pool of prospects for them. Some will slip through the cracks, and because they do, they enter the NFL with the label of being a "reach." It's not always fair.

     

    "Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

    Which is why it comes to the following question: Belichick and his scouting staff or the draft analysts?

     

    With all due respect to the hard-working analysts, the coach with the five Super Bowl rings gets the benefit of the doubt on this one.


     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      What a koolaider...LOL!!! Why would I have to be in the waroom to come up with this opinion? It's based on observation of what has occurred...and trying to make sense out of the Wilson move. Wilson's body of work in college was no  where near impressive enough to justify him being selected at #48.      But...go ahead and tell me again...BB picked him, so it must be right....LOL !!!               
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Now I'm a "KOOLAIDER" because the fact is THE GREAT MAJORITY OF THE 1ST AND 2ND ROUND PICKS WILL NOT BE MULTI TIME PRO BOWLERS and this just doesn't compute with what Mel Kiper and the boys have told you.  


    It's fine to have an opinion... But telling me that there were much better players to be had at 48 with the self assurance that you seem to have is pure folly.

    Please keep it civil.  I have refrained from calling you names or belittling you despite the fact that you are getting a little testy as of late.

    Again my point is you have no idea if Tavon is going to make it or not.  You also have no idea if the players picked just after Tavon are better than he is.  You also have no idea how much longer Tavon would have lasted.  Granted you can have an opinion about who the Pats should have chosen but that opinion is driven solely by what you have read in a few mags.

    Why even bother with the scouting department.  These NFL teams must be fools to invest all that time and money if Mel and the boys will gladly do all the work for them for the paltry some of $19.99.


     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    mar10, capitalizing, italizicizing and bolding words doesn't give them the added import that you think it does when you do it as often as you do.  Instead, it just makes you look like a crazy person.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]mar10, capitalizing, italizicizing and bolding words doesn't give them the added import that you think it does when you do it as often as you do.  Instead, it just makes you look like a crazy person.
    Posted by MattC05[/QUOTE]


    You might have a point.  Not the crazy person part.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Holy jumped up mother goose, guys!  You'd think we were talking about a negotiated peace in a war zone; it was a second round draft pick for crying out loud.  And, yes, I know I was a party to it earlier.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report


    The only question is - could BB have gotten Wilson at a lower pick?
    Thats a draft game question. But I can't get too exercized boer
    this. In due course we will find out if there are players drafted
    lower who does better than Wilson -

    Players are picked on talent and how they fit into a scheme

    But how well does Wilson fit BB's Scheme?

    Is he a Safety who can stop the run, cover TE's, be in the right
    position and tackle?
    Is he a good back up to Chung?
    Does he allow BB to put D schems in that are effective?
    Is he a strong ST's player?

    We will know this season.
    I know I will be rooting for him along with every other player



     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Holy jumped up mother goose, guys!  You'd think we were talking about a negotiated peace in a war zone; it was a second round draft pick for crying out loud.  And, yes, I know I was a party to it earlier.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]


    Your right.  I have been a part as well and I'm done.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Belichick, who like others has made his share of draft mistakes, compared the situation to offensive tackle Sebastian Vollmer coming out of the 2009 draft. Vollmer wasn't invited to the combine and thus was considered a reach among analysts (two seasons later, he was named second-team All-Pro).   A selection like Vollmer, and Wilson this year, highlights the differences between the scouting process of an NFL team versus media analysts who might rely on the combine and all-star games to narrow down a large pool of prospects for them. Some will slip through the cracks, and because they do, they enter the NFL with the label of being a "reach." It's not always fair.   "Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can." Which is why it comes to the following question: Belichick and his scouting staff or the draft analysts?   With all due respect to the hard-working analysts, the coach with the five Super Bowl rings gets the benefit of the doubt on this one.
    Posted by mar10[/QUOTE]

         No comparison between Wilson and Vollmer. Vollmer had out of this world physical attributes, being an athletic 6'8", 315 lb. LT, who starred at LT in a pass-first offense. The knocks on Vollmer were that he didn't start playing American football til he was 14...and didn't face any serious competition until he started playing for the Houston Cougars.

         After starting out as a TE, C-Bass was moved to LT. In his final season with the Cougars in 2008, he was named first team All-Conference (not honorable mention). His OL coach at Houston was Joe Gilbert, who had previously coached then Pats' starting RT, Nick Kaczur. Subsequently, Donte Scarnecchia conducted a private workout with C-Bass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Vollmer

         Compare and contrast that with Tavon Wilson...and you'll see how the Pats weren't  as intimately familiar with Wilson as a player, as they were with Vollmer. You'll also discover that, unlike Vollmer, Wilson doesn't have any remarkable physical traits...nor does he possess the track record that C-Bass posted in college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavon_Wilson 

         So, other than the fact that neither player was invited to The Combine, that's all they had in common.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      No comparison between Wilson and Vollmer. Vollmer had out of this world physical attributes, being an athletic 6'8", 315 lb. LT, who starred at LT in a pass-first offense. The knocks on Vollmer were that he didn't start playing American football til he was 14...and didn't face any serious competition until he started playing for the Houston Cougars.      After starting out as a TE, C-Bass was moved to LT. In his final season with the Cougars in 2008, he was named first team All-Conference (not honorable mention). His OL coach at Houston was Joe Gilbert, who had previously coached then Pats' starting RT, Nick Kaczur. Subsequently, Donte Scarnecchia conducted a private workout with C-Bass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Vollmer      Compare and contrast that with Tavon Wilson...and you'll see how the Pats weren't  as intimately familiar with Wilson as a player, as they were with Vollmer. You'll also discover that, unlike Vollmer, Wilson doesn't have any remarkable physical traits...nor does he possess the track record that C-Bass posted in college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavon_Wilson        So, other than the fact that neither player was invited to The Combine, that's all they had in common.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    Vollmer didn't have nearly as good a pedigree as Tavon does. The conference Vollmer was in was no where near as competitive as the conference the Illini were in. So you are right the comparison doesn't really hold water. Vollmer was a much bigger reach!
     
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