Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Wilson was rising so fast that Mayock just happened to forget to put him on his top 100 draft prospect and top 5 safety prospects, which is all he listed prior to the draft.  Statements made after the draft are discounted.  Would have been nice to see Mayock's top 200 prior to the draft.  Something tells me that one Tavon Wilson probably would not be on that list.
    Posted by sfpat[/QUOTE]

    The he!! you say...  Mike Mayock was THE first person last year, to accurately predict The Great San Francisco Earthquake of 1906.

    Just g'head to try ta either discount or deny that fact...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Hey Laz,
    Ever think that might have been his worst game? Possibly, maybe? Just askin!
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Hey Laz, Ever think that might have been his worst game? Possibly, maybe? Just askin!
    Posted by rtuinila[/QUOTE]

    Yea, probably man-  The lone film out of the 3 total "Tavon Wilson vs" Films highlighting his play...from the past 3 or 4 years- Odds are that the single worst performance that Tavon Wilson ever gave, was the one I actually happened to choose in the latter half of this, his final collegiate year.  Maybe...
    ;^) 
    ^ ya know, I just don't like that at all...I think it's the nose; Just not too big on the whole "prominent nose" thing- It simply commands far too much attention in and of itself...
    Hold on, This should better emphasize the unspoken innuendo I'm tryin' to coyly emphasize right here (without betraying my intent with a whole buncha words)...<please recognize, that I actually felt the need to balance this paranthesis portion on top of everything else, as well />
    Wink
    Ohhh, yup...there's the big guy we're talkin' about right there.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : you're strange Laz...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    Some people try to lightly stab at a subject...I, on the otherhand, believe you should thoroughly kill it before dismembering it & sending these on to it's friends...(whom you'll also be killing).

    Hold on, I'ma stick with what got me here...  Man, there is simply NO "insane" one- Oh, well:
    Kiss
    I was thinkin' "Silence of The Lambs" works for that there...
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Yea, probably man-  The lone film out of the 3 total "Tavon Wilson vs" Films highlighting his play...from the past 3 or 4 years- Odds are that the single worst performance that Tavon Wilson ever gave, was the one I actually happened to choose in the latter half of this, his final collegiate year.  Maybe... ;^)  ^ ya know, I just don't like that at all...I think it's the nose; Just not too big on the whole "prominent nose" thing- It simply commands far too much attention in and of itself... Hold on, This should better emphasize the unspoken innuendo I'm tryin' to coyly emphasize right here (without betraying my intent with a whole buncha words)...<please recognize, that I actually felt the need to balance this paranthesis portion on top of everything else, as well /> Ohhh, yup...there's the big guy we're talkin' about right there.
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    Just gotta say Laz, I may not always like what you have to say, but I do like your style!
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]This is what disappoints us tenured draft crazies, like me.  You MUST be able to weigh and recognize consensus ratings and/as it relates to other NFL Clubs and where they more than likely should and will inevitably target someone which they might covet, but whom you yourself, DO covet.  
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough, you think he sucks.  But it's this part that kills me.  Do you really think the Pats headcoach is blithering idiot?  He just sits there clueless, without any insight into where the other teams rank prospects?  And more than that, that you hav better insight into where teams rank prospects.

    The guy has been coaching in the NFL for 40 years, he's linked to half the College head coaches as being "good friends", he has former employees and coworkers on nearly every team.  You don't think he might have just a shade more insight into where other teams have players targeted than you?

    I mean to me you just have to think he's a complete idiot if you believe he took a guy in the second who would not be picked until the 7th. 

    I just don't buy that.  I think he has alot of insight as to who is targeting these guys.  I think he knew the Ravens wanted Gronk and that's why he moved up in 10, he had some info that Jones and Hightower would be gone so he moved up in the first.  He had some info that McCourty would be there if he moved back.  I have to believe that BB, and every other GM in the NFL do have some clue what they're doing. 
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Wilson was rising so fast that Mayock just happened to forget to put him on his top 100 draft prospect and top 5 safety prospects, which is all he listed prior to the draft.  Statements made after the draft are discounted.  Would have been nice to see Mayock's top 200 prior to the draft.  Something tells me that one Tavon Wilson probably would not be on that list.
    Posted by sfpat[/QUOTE]


    hi sfpat,
       i posted something similar right after the pick and mayocks comments, that they may have been reflexive ie automatic (I had this kid rising on my board just before the draft) , particularly because the picks was from bb.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    With the 48th pick the Pats selected a player who has played several positions in the defensive backfield in a very tough conference, has good (not great but good) size/speed, is a good all around football player and, by all accounts, is a good character guy.  BB always does his homework on these guys (as so many others have pointed out) and felt for wahtever reason(s) that he wanted him at pick 48.  That Kiper and the other talking heads on TV (note that they weren't making the picks, merely second guessing them) weren't gooey over the pick doesn't send me out to the ledge.

    Give me BB's track record any day over the talking heads and, for that matter, over any other GM in the league.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE] ...*4 down potential as he'll likely play on most/all ST units. I don't think he has any huge holes to his game, but he doesn't do anything exceptionally well either (won't make a ton of wow plays)... kid's a "football player".  I also don't think he looks like a 6/7 rounder (kid can play)... prob more of a solid mid round player (Rd 3/4), though in this S class, his value increased and BB likely felt that other teams viewed him similarly... especially considering he didn't trade down with that pick.

    Bottom line:  If you pull a consistent starter out of Rd 2 (star potential or not), you did well and I think this kid has that potential.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

         Beau...the bottom line is that, considering where Wilson was drafted, he had better be a "consistent starter". If this guy just makes the team, plays on special teams, and sees occasional action only...than he was what many of us think he was...a reach, and, ultimately, a bust. With the 48th overall pick, a team should be getting a guy who can step right in and play.

         Unfortunately in recent years, we've seen too many high picks squandered on the secondary...Darius Butler, Terrence Wheatley, and Meriweather. Missing on these guys arguably has cost the Pats a championship or two...and has resulted in the Wilson selection at #48.

         What I'm saying is that I hope BB that chose this kid because he's already a finished product, and ready to step in and fill the breach at safety. But, I fear that this is a case of BB seeing a bunch of potential in Wilson, and trying to manufacture a safety. That sort of thing is okay to do with undrafted free agents, and lower round picks...but not with the 48th pick overall.  
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]With the 48th pick the Pats selected a player who has played several positions in the defensive backfield in a very tough conference, has good (not great but good) size/speed, is a good all around football player and, by all accounts, is a good character guy.  BB always does his homework on these guys (as so many others have pointed out) and felt for wahtever reason(s) that he wanted him at pick 48.  That Kiper and the other talking heads on TV (note that they weren't making the picks, merely second guessing them) weren't gooey over the pick doesn't send me out to the ledge. Give me BB's track record any day over the talking heads and, for that matter, over any other GM in the league.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

         Wilson's lack of top production in college is what concerns me. Most college players who make it to the pros are the cream of the crop. They've been team captains, and/or have been all-conference players. Wilson was honorable mention in the Big 10...not even named to the second team All-Big 10.

         My question is, "Is Wilson ready and able to step in from day one, and fill the breach at safety?" Based on what he's done in college, I don't think that he is. My fear is that BB is so desperate for a safety, that he's trying to manufacture one. That's fine to do with undrafted free agents, and lower round picks. But, when a player is selected mid-way in the second round, he should already be a finished product, ready to step in and contribute. 
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]I think people just need to stop thinking about the value of the pick which is not even known yet.
     
    RESPONSE: What do you mean that the "value of the pick is unknown"? Of course it's known...it's a mid-range second round pick. The Pats should not be drafting projects with such high picks. 

    Had he been rated higher by experts, we would then call him good value ??

    RESPONSE: Had he a better track record in college, he would have been rated higher. But, his college performance translated to a 6-7th round pick. 

      - That makes no sense. None of these guys have value until they make their mark in the NFL.
     
    RESPONSE: Taking the word "value" lierally, you're right. But, in a football sense, the value of a first or a second round pick is that, with such a pick, a team should get a player who is ready to step in, and perform. That's why first and second round picks are prized commodities. Projects are guys who have the physical potential to evolve into a good player...but are not ready for prime time, like the first and second rounders are.   

    We all thought McCourty was a reach and he proved a value pick (before last year)

    RESPONSE: Again, you're misusing the term value (see above). Furthermore, there's no way that you can equate the selection of McCourty with the 27th overall pick, to Wilson, with the 48th overall pick. McCourty was a highly rated player...not a reach. People didn't like the pick bbecause they didn't like the fact that BB chose another CB. In Wilson's case, he's was a lowly rated prospect, who was drafted with a high draft choice.  

    We just came off a year where we made the SB and retained a bunch of players as well as adding quite a few in free agency so people have to realize that theres not that much room for players on our roster.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonsense. The Pats' defense was awful last year. They need upgrades throughout that unit. But, BB is such a good coach thaat he can take a bunch of cast-offs and free agent types, and mold them into a decent "bend but don't break" defensive unit. But, the shortcomings of his defense are getting exposed of late against the better teams...especially in the play-offs.

    He made the splash day 1 and picked up 2 IMPACT players to improve our team. The remaining picks are fodder for camp and special team aces.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonsense. Number one drafts picks should be impact players. Second round picks should have an impact as well.  

    So this guy probably was the best special Teams option that could also play in the regular defense a little. He is versatile enough to play anywhere which helps him cause he will be a an emergency fill in in the back end.

    RESPONSE: He's a second round pick!! He should be a starter...not a special teamer!  

    Bequette looks like a Steal!  Im not dissapointed. Have to keep it in perspective..
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report



    I don't think any of us is enough of an insider to know what other teams thought of Tavon Wilson and his value.  Also, if BB thought his value was high, I'm not sure BB would care what other teams thought his value was. And I'm also sure that if BB really thought Wilson was good value at 48 and wanted him that he would definitely not take the risk of finding out later that some other team felt Wilson was value at 49 or 50 or at any other pick before BB got to pick again.  So BB pulled the trigger at 48.  The absolute surety some folks seem to have that Wilson wouldn't haven't been drafted until round 5 or 6 or 7 (if at all) seems a bit misplaced.  Unless you're an NFL scout how would you know?  You think teams are really telling Mel Kiper how much they value players so Mel can tell the rest of the world?  That would be like the US military telling the New York Times how best to shoot down our fighter jets so the New York Times can publish an article on it!

    Here's what Bill said when asked about the film available on Wilson:

    Q: Tavon Wilson seems unique with no Combine and no all-star games. It seems unique and there were fewer opportunities to see him play.   

    BB: He played plenty. You can see him plenty at Illinois. You can see him against whoever you want to see him against: all the Big Ten schools, Arizona State, teams that throw the ball. He's playing corner, he's playing safety, he's playing the inside positions, the nickel position, the dime position - Michigan State, they're a good passing team; Michigan, they're a spread out offense team. There's a lot of passing in that conference, Northwestern, all those teams.   

    I'm sure BB watched everyone of those games and has a real good idea what this kid can do.  I'm also sure he watched a lot of film of a lot of other college safeties who were available and made a reasonable judgment based on all the evidence he saw.  The Pats desparately need safety help and if BB thought Wilson was the best guy to provide that help, it would have been idiotic for him to risk losing the guy because Mel Kiper (or Tex Pat or anyone else) pegged him as seventh round talent. 




     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    If you look at the history of the draft, mid second rounders are notoriously unpredictable.  An awful lot of them end up busts or back ups.  A decent number end up reliable starters, and a few of them end up pro bowlers.  I think we fans sometimes have an inflated opinion of what you can expect in the middle of the second round.  Not every second round draft pick ends up a starter . . . not even close.  
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I think people just need to stop thinking about the value of the pick which is not even known yet.
     
    RESPONSE: What do you mean that the "value of the pick is unknown"? Of course it's known...it's a mid-range second round pick. The Pats should not be drafting projects with such high picks.

    Response:  It's not known.  Where he would be picked is up to the 32 teams that draft, they are 100% of the market.  You, me, Kiper, Mayock, Scouts inc. and everyone else make up 0% of the market.  Do you know what the other teams were thinking?  No.  Is it possible BB knew what some of the other teams were thinking? Yes.  I don't know how to make this more clear. 

    Had he been rated higher by experts, we would then call him good value ??

    RESPONSE: Had he a better track record in college, he would have been rated higher. But, his college performance translated to a 6-7th round pick.

    Response:  And so would Vollmer, and Brady, and Arian Foster, and Kurt Warner, and Wes Welker and Cameron Wake.  The big scouting agency didn't scout him.  So the experts didn't scout him.  But the NFL teams did scout him.  Where he was rated by them, I don't know.  But like I said earlier- they make up 100% of the market. 

      - That makes no sense. None of these guys have value until they make their mark in the NFL.
     
    RESPONSE: Taking the word "value" lierally, you're right. But, in a football sense, the value of a first or a second round pick is that, with such a pick, a team should get a player who is ready to step in, and perform. That's why first and second round picks are prized commodities. Projects are guys who have the physical potential to evolve into a good player...but are not ready for prime time, like the first and second rounders are.   

    We all thought McCourty was a reach and he proved a value pick (before last year)

    RESPONSE: Again, you're misusing the term value (see above). Furthermore, there's no way that you can equate the selection of McCourty with the 27th overall pick, to Wilson, with the 48th overall pick. McCourty was a highly rated player...not a reach. People didn't like the pick bbecause they didn't like the fact that BB chose another CB. In Wilson's case, he's was a lowly rated prospect, who was drafted with a high draft choice. 

    Response:  You didn't like the McCourty pick, or any of the 2010 picks.  McCourty was not considered a value.  Lots of guys like Kindle and Hughes but we don't hear much about that now. 

    We just came off a year where we made the SB and retained a bunch of players as well as adding quite a few in free agency so people have to realize that theres not that much room for players on our roster.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonsense. The Pats' defense was awful last year. They need upgrades throughout that unit. But, BB is such a good coach thaat he can take a bunch of cast-offs and free agent types, and mold them into a decent "bend but don't break" defensive unit. But, the shortcomings of his defense are getting exposed of late against the better teams...especially in the play-offs.

    He made the splash day 1 and picked up 2 IMPACT players to improve our team. The remaining picks are fodder for camp and special team aces.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonsense. Number one drafts picks should be impact players. Second round picks should have an impact as well. 

    Response:  The vast majority of 2nd round draft picks are not impact players  (look the picks up on Wikipedia).  Maybe 5 a year, I do expect them to make the roster and stay throughout their contract.  They only start two safeties but roster four so I guess you could say two are good and two are bust but I think that's a wierd way to look at it.


    So this guy probably was the best special Teams option that could also play in the regular defense a little. He is versatile enough to play anywhere which helps him cause he will be a an emergency fill in in the back end.

    RESPONSE: He's a second round pick!! He should be a starter...not a special teamer! 

    Bequette looks like a Steal!  Im not dissapointed. Have to keep it in perspective..
    Posted by patsfan76
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Tex, if thats the case, then you should have never expected much from this guy. How many of our 2nd rd picks have turned into day 1 starters?? Gronkowski is the Gold standard. Chung is the more realistic scenario and C.Jackson is the worst case scenario. You see, you cant put a value on someone until they play. The value chart thing is just  so you can make your board and determine where a player stands in refernce to others and ours is ALWAYS different than any other teams. This is because we place  premiums on other things that some teams dont. We want guys that are tough, smart, and love football. After those 3 things are comfirmed they work from there. I assume the last part about loving football is why most dont make it here.
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

         Gronk, Spikes, Chung, Vollmer, are all second rounders who contributed in a large way, immediately. 

         Once again, I'm going to list for all you koolaiders the graveyard of draft busts accumulated by BB, regarding first-third round picks, since 2006:

    1.) 2006: RB Laurence Maroney (21st overall), WR Chad Jackson (36th overall), TE David Thomas (86th overall);

    2.) 2007: FS Brandon Meriweather (24th overall);

    3.) 2008: CB Terrence Wheatley (62nd overall), OLB Shawn Crable (78th overall), QB Kevin O'Connell 94th overall);

    4.) 2009: DT Ron Brace (#40 overall), CB Darius Butler (#41 overall), WR Brandon Tate (83rd overall), LB Tyrone McKenzie (97th overall);

    5.) 2010: OLB Jermaine Cunningham (#53 overall), WR Taylor Price (#90 overall).    
         Compare this to his successful picks over the same time:

    1.) 2008: Jerod Mayo (10th overall);

    2.) 2009: Patrick Chung (34th overall), Sebastien Vollmer (58th overall);

    3.) 2010:Devin McCourty (27th overall), Rob Gronkowski (42nd overall), Brandon Spikes (62nd overall).

         So...of the 19 first through third round picks BB has had from 2006-10, only 6 have panned out. That means that 68% of the Pats first-third round picks, from 2006-10, have been busts.

         Yet...when it comes to making draft selections, in Bill we blindly trust??    
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Maroney and Meriweather might not be here now, but let's not pretend they didn't contribute when they were on the team.  Meriweather went to 2 probowls (underserved  imo) while he was here.  That doesn't happen to a bust.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    He just passes the "eye" test.  If you watch film on him, i think a lot of you would feel better about him.  forget about stats, combine numbers, expert opinions etc, and just watch him play some. he is just a player, not a perenial pro bowler or anything like that, but he will do all the little things right, the small things that fans dont see during a game and on certain plays.  being in the right spot at the right time, A real motor, NEVER quits on a play, at least not that i saw. intangibles like BB likes.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Gronk, Spikes, Chung, Vollmer, are all second rounders who contributed in a large way, immediately.       Once again, I'm going to list for all you koolaiders the graveyard of draft busts accumulated by BB, regarding first-third round picks, since 2006: 1.) 2006: RB Laurence Maroney (21st overall), WR Chad Jackson (36th overall), TE David Thomas (86th overall); 2.) 2007: FS Brandon Meriweather (24th overall); 3.) 2008: CB Terrence Wheatley (62nd overall), OLB Shawn Crable (78th overall), QB Kevin O'Connell 94th overall); 4.) 2009: DT Ron Brace (#40 overall), CB Darius Butler (#41 overall), WR Brandon Tate (83rd overall), LB Tyrone McKenzie (97th overall); 5.) 2010: OLB Jermaine Cunningham (#53 overall), WR Taylor Price (#90 overall).          Compare this to his successful picks over the same time: 1.) 2008: Jerod Mayo (10th overall); 2.) 2009: Patrick Chung (34th overall), Sebastien Vollmer (58th overall); 3.) 2010:Devin McCourty (27th overall), Rob Gronkowski (42nd overall), Brandon Spikes (62nd overall).      So...of the 19 first through third round picks BB has had from 2006-10, only 6 have panned out. That means that 68% of the Pats first-third round picks, from 2006-10, have been busts.      Yet...when it comes to making draft selections, in Bill we blindly trust??    
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    To better understand where hitting on almost 42% of your Day 1/2 picks ranks BB (BM/LM were starters/serviceable for a couple years, so I don't consider them straight busts), you'd need to do this exercise for the rest of the 31 teams in the league. 

    Per my comment above, as much as I didn't like BM, he started for the team and made a couple of questionable Pro-Bowls, so I'm not sure he can be chalked up to a straight bust and while Maroney under-performed his draft selection, he had 3 serviceable seasons in NE, combining for 2,337 and 21 TD's during that time... again, serviceable, but def under-performed his draft slot.
     

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