Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Medic87. Show Medic87's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Texaspat, you could make that same list out for EVERY other team in the league.  Then see where BB compares to other coaches/GM's success rate or as you would put it, "bust percentage".  I feel confident BB's 68% would look real good.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]He just passes the "eye" test.  If you watch film on him, i think a lot of you would feel better about him.  forget about stats, combine numbers, expert opinions etc, and just watch him play some. he is just a player, not a perenial pro bowler or anything like that, but he will do all the little things right, the small things that fans dont see during a game and on certain plays.  being in the right spot at the right time, A real motor, NEVER quits on a play, at least not that i saw. intangibles like BB likes.
    Posted by Medic87[/QUOTE]


    I agree, watch the film of him and compare it to the film of some of the other safeties still available when he was picked and BB's choice will make a lot more sense.  If nothing else, Wilson seems to be in the right position on just about every play and never seems to quit on a play.  There are a few exceptions where he gets burned in pass coverage when playing slot corner, but as a safety he looks pretty good.  Remember, BB uses a lot of 5 and even 6 DB formations.  Wilson looks like a good guy for those formations since he can come up and defend in the run and seems to keep the action in front of him on most plays when he's lining up as a safety.  As a corner, he's not quite so effective.  But as a safety, the more I see, the more I like him.  


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    One thing people need to remember when they criticize this pick re: value.

    When BB made the pick, it was his second to last pick of the draft.  He ONLY had #62 left, which we know he wanted to trade.  And from the trade he eventually got, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't getting a lot of bites for 62.  He knew he'd eventually be able to trade it, but had no idea how much further down the draft he would end up being.

    So, he had a hole at safety, his #3 safety (after Barron and Smith) was still on the board.  He thought he might last for another round or two, but had no idea if he would have another pick within the next round or two.  So, with nobody else on the board blowing his panties off, he grabs Wilson.

    People who talk about "value" make it sound like all you have to do is wave your hand and you can magically turn that #48 pick into a properly itemized smorgasbord of lower picks.  That's not the way it works; you need to find a trade partner, and it's possible that you won't be able to find one that suits your needs exactly.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]One thing people need to remember when they criticize this pick re: value. When BB made the pick, it was his second to last pick of the draft.  He ONLY had #62 left, which we know he wanted to trade.  And from the trade he eventually got, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't getting a lot of bites for 62.  He knew he'd eventually be able to trade it, but had no idea how much further down the draft he would end up being. So, he had a hole at safety, his #3 safety (after Barron and Smith) was still on the board.  He thought he might last for another round or two, but had no idea if he would have another pick within the next round or two.  So, with nobody else on the board blowing his panties off, he grabs Wilson. People who talk about "value" make it sound like all you have to do is wave your hand and you can magically turn that #48 pick into a properly itemized smorgasbord of lower picks.  That's not the way it works; you need to find a trade partner, and it's possible that you won't be able to find one that suits your needs exactly.
    Posted by MattC05[/QUOTE]


    Good points Matt . . . 
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    As "The Godfather Gil Brandt" (us older guys might know him from building the Cowboys dynasty) just said and I'm paraphrasing here.. When you have more draft picks and more wins and more SB wins, and more SB appearances then any other team in the nfl for the past 11 seasons it will become more difficult for your draft picks to stick. Who do they replace when your guys are obviously good enough already to get you to 12-4 seasons on average?

    Now if your team is a perennial loser and you have more draft picks then any other team, and you are letting your guys walk after 2 or 3 seasons then yes you have either drafted poorly or coached poorly...neither of which BB is doing.

    Point being only an absolute fool would try and paint BB as anything less then the poster boy for modern day team building in sports...any sport. It is truly ignorant to say something like (picks like the Wilson pick is why BB will not win another SB). It just doesn't make sense.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]As "The Godfather Gil Brandt" us older guys might know him from building the Cowboys dynasty) just said and I'm paraphrasing here.. (When you have more draft picks and more wins and more SB wins, and more SB appearances then any other team in the nfl for the past 11 seasons it will become more difficult for your draft picks to stick. Who do they replace when your guys are obviously good enough already to get you to 12-4 seasons on average? Now if your team is a perennial loser and you have more draft picks then any other team, and you are letting your guys walk after 2 or 3 seasons then yes you have either drafted poorly or coached poorly...neither of which BB is doing. Point being only an absolute fool would try and paint BB as anything less then the poster boy for modern day team building in sports...any sport. It is truly ignorant to say something like ( picks like the Wilson pick is why BB will not win another SB). It just doesn't make sense.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    TrueChamp while that holds in general, that is be far NOT the case we are discussing.  The Pats won there super bowls on the backs of a secondary with the likes of Law, Miloy, Harrison, et al.

    The reason the CB and Safties lately have not been sticking is not because we had talent here but because they stunk.  Butler, Wheatley, Wilhite, Merweather et al if they were decent at all, would have still been on this team.  They were BUSTS plain and simple.

    Same goes for the OLB/DE.  Ever since we lost Willie and Vrabel the guys that havent made the team like Crable, Cunningham, et al is due to their lack of talent not someone better in front of them. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : TrueChamp while that holds in general, that is be far NOT the case we are discussing.  The Pats won there super bowls on the backs of a secondary with the likes of Law, Miloy, Harrison, et al. The reason the CB and Safties lately have not been sticking is not because we had talent here but because they stunk.  Butler, Wheatley, Wilhite, Merweather et al if they were decent at all, would have still been on this team.  They were BUSTS plain and simple. Same goes for the OLB/DE.  Ever since we lost Willie and Vrabel the guys that havent made the team like Crable, Cunningham, et al is due to their lack of talent not someone better in front of them. 
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

         The Pats may finally have found replacements for Big Willie and Vrable...with the additions of Jones and Hightower.

         It's really a shame that BB dropped the ball on day two, with the Wilson pick, and the lopsided (value-wise) trade with Green Bay. The Pats could have really had a special draft.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]I'm always amused that most of the people on these blogs know more about talent than does BB and his staff. How come you are NOT employed in the NFL? ***5 superbowls in 10 years***
    Posted by rainbowroosie[/QUOTE]
    I know more about point spreads than Vegas.  Maybe I'm not employed for the same reason Tavon Wilson was supposed to be an undrafted JAG.  Nobody has the time to look.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Gronk, Spikes, Chung, Vollmer, are all second rounders who contributed in a large way, immediately.       Once again, I'm going to list for all you koolaiders the graveyard of draft busts accumulated by BB, regarding first-third round picks, since 2006: 1.) 2006: RB Laurence Maroney (21st overall), WR Chad Jackson (36th overall), TE David Thomas (86th overall); 2.) 2007: FS Brandon Meriweather (24th overall); 3.) 2008: CB Terrence Wheatley (62nd overall), OLB Shawn Crable (78th overall), QB Kevin O'Connell 94th overall); 4.) 2009: DT Ron Brace (#40 overall), CB Darius Butler (#41 overall), WR Brandon Tate (83rd overall), LB Tyrone McKenzie (97th overall); 5.) 2010: OLB Jermaine Cunningham (#53 overall), WR Taylor Price (#90 overall).          Compare this to his successful picks over the same time: 1.) 2008: Jerod Mayo (10th overall); 2.) 2009: Patrick Chung (34th overall), Sebastien Vollmer (58th overall); 3.) 2010:Devin McCourty (27th overall), Rob Gronkowski (42nd overall), Brandon Spikes (62nd overall).      So...of the 19 first through third round picks BB has had from 2006-10, only 6 have panned out. That means that 68% of the Pats first-third round picks, from 2006-10, have been busts.      Yet...when it comes to making draft selections, in Bill we blindly trust??    
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    A batting average of .320 might get you into the discussion for MVP.  You need to compare Belichick's drafting to that of all the other GMs, taking into account that the Patriots rarely get a shot at the very best talent since they usually have to draft late in the first round. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      The Pats may finally have found replacements for Big Willie and Vrable...with the additions of Jones and Hightower.      It's really a shame that BB dropped the ball on day two, with the Wilson pick, and the lopsided (value-wise) trade with Green Bay. The Pats could have really had a special draft.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I am with you somewhat.  I am going to keep an open mind until we see how it plays out.  There were plenty of times when I was really excited when they drafted someone and they turned out to be a bust -- maybe this will turn out to be the opposite. 

    I dont follow college football that much so I don't know how good a team Illinois was. Maybe the team around him wasnt that good so his stats were not great.   
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Fair enough, you think he sucks.  But it's this part that kills me.  Do you really think the Pats headcoach is blithering idiot?  He just sits there clueless, without any insight into where the other teams rank prospects?  And more than that, that you hav better insight into where teams rank prospects. The guy has been coaching in the NFL for 40 years, he's linked to half the College head coaches as being "good friends", he has former employees and coworkers on nearly every team.  You don't think he might have just a shade more insight into where other teams have players targeted than you? I mean to me you just have to think he's a complete idiot if you believe he took a guy in the second who would not be picked until the 7th.  I just don't buy that.  I think he has alot of insight as to who is targeting these guys.  I think he knew the Ravens wanted Gronk and that's why he moved up in 10, he had some info that Jones and Hightower would be gone so he moved up in the first.  He had some info that McCourty would be there if he moved back.  I have to believe that BB, and every other GM in the NFL do have some clue what they're doing. 
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    +1
    this post should be linked to the front page.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : I am with you somewhat.  I am going to keep an open mind until we see how it plays out.  There were plenty of times when I was really excited when they drafted someone and they turned out to be a bust -- maybe this will turn out to be the opposite.  I dont follow college football that much so I don't know how good a team Illinois was. Maybe the team around him wasnt that good so his stats were not great.   
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

         It's not that I don't like Wilson as a player. I don't like where BB drafted him. To take him at #48 was far too high.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnp3a. Show mnp3a's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]One thing people need to remember when they criticize this pick re: value. When BB made the pick, it was his second to last pick of the draft.  He ONLY had #62 left, which we know he wanted to trade.  And from the trade he eventually got, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't getting a lot of bites for 62.  He knew he'd eventually be able to trade it, but had no idea how much further down the draft he would end up being. So, he had a hole at safety, his #3 safety (after Barron and Smith) was still on the board.  He thought he might last for another round or two, but had no idea if he would have another pick within the next round or two.  So, with nobody else on the board blowing his panties off, he grabs Wilson. People who talk about "value" make it sound like all you have to do is wave your hand and you can magically turn that #48 pick into a properly itemized smorgasbord of lower picks.  That's not the way it works; you need to find a trade partner, and it's possible that you won't be able to find one that suits your needs exactly.
    Posted by MattC05[/QUOTE]

    +1
    =)

    my guess:
    BB tried to trade 48, but couldn't
    so he picked the guy they wanted, and took a bad trade @ 62

    still, i'm not sure... i kinda remember they picking wilson quickly

     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    TP,

    this is absolutely meaningless, unless you compare it to league averages.

    actually, comparing to leage averages wouldn't work either since Pats usually pick later, but it'd be a start.

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Gronk, Spikes, Chung, Vollmer, are all second rounders who contributed in a large way, immediately.       Once again, I'm going to list for all you koolaiders the graveyard of draft busts accumulated by BB, regarding first-third round picks, since 2006: 1.) 2006: RB Laurence Maroney (21st overall), WR Chad Jackson (36th overall), TE David Thomas (86th overall); 2.) 2007: FS Brandon Meriweather (24th overall); 3.) 2008: CB Terrence Wheatley (62nd overall), OLB Shawn Crable (78th overall), QB Kevin O'Connell 94th overall); 4.) 2009: DT Ron Brace (#40 overall), CB Darius Butler (#41 overall), WR Brandon Tate (83rd overall), LB Tyrone McKenzie (97th overall); 5.) 2010: OLB Jermaine Cunningham (#53 overall), WR Taylor Price (#90 overall).          Compare this to his successful picks over the same time: 1.) 2008: Jerod Mayo (10th overall); 2.) 2009: Patrick Chung (34th overall), Sebastien Vollmer (58th overall); 3.) 2010:Devin McCourty (27th overall), Rob Gronkowski (42nd overall), Brandon Spikes (62nd overall).      So...of the 19 first through third round picks BB has had from 2006-10, only 6 have panned out. That means that 68% of the Pats first-third round picks, from 2006-10, have been busts.      Yet...when it comes to making draft selections, in Bill we blindly trust??    
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : I know more about point spreads than Vegas.  Maybe I'm not employed for (...)
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    Well... honestly, if you know more than vegas, you don't need a job at all.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    This is a lot more fun arguing whether the Union or Owners were right. I don't know why but I'm with BB on this one. We took a rugby player for gosh sakes. Previously took a wrassler!

    BB sees this team in practice and lives with them. He knows the D has issues and the O had issues in the SB. If he sees fit to fill a need with pick 48 I'm gonna go with him. Give me them balls they need a washin. I was thinking Knoz would be good in that position but hey I don't run the practices.

    When we won it all in 2001 the only statistic we were better then the Rams was ST. If Brady is going to score in :35 , then let him do it from our 40.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]One thing people need to remember when they criticize this pick re: value. When BB made the pick, it was his second to last pick of the draft.  He ONLY had #62 left, which we know he wanted to trade.  And from the trade he eventually got, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't getting a lot of bites for 62.  He knew he'd eventually be able to trade it, but had no idea how much further down the draft he would end up being. So, he had a hole at safety, his #3 safety (after Barron and Smith) was still on the board.  He thought he might last for another round or two, but had no idea if he would have another pick within the next round or two.  So, with nobody else on the board blowing his panties off, he grabs Wilson. People who talk about "value" make it sound like all you have to do is wave your hand and you can magically turn that #48 pick into a properly itemized smorgasbord of lower picks.  That's not the way it works; you need to find a trade partner, and it's possible that you won't be able to find one that suits your needs exactly.
    Posted by MattC05[/QUOTE]

         If that's the case, sounds to me like BB wasn't adequately prepared, going into day two. 

         It's not that I hate Wilson as I player, I hate where they selected him. The Pats should have gotten more value out of that 48th overall pick. Here's a good post that I've just read, on this subject:  

    MilitStrat54
    says:

    Don’t be upset that BB took Wilson, be upset that he wasted 420 draft points on a kid who doesn’t show up on anyone’s draft boards until the sixth round. With all the talent on the defense this year right when they needed it, it was the perfect time to trade down or at least stand “pat”. By waiting on Wilson in the fifth round with a trade down, the Pats could have traded with Cincy (just an example) giving up the 420 point second round pick for their later second round pick at 370 points plus either two fifth rounders or a fifth and a sixth. End result…still get Wilson a round before he was suppose to go with 29, 25, or 24.6 points from the fifth round and use the 370 points from the Bengals second round pick #53 on Devon Still, DT/Vinny Curry, DE on defense or Peter Konz, C/Mike Adams, OT on offense (all were still available). Could even have had Reuben Randall, WR to stretch the field for Brady...
    I would have done a packaged deal so that when the first trade-up took place with Cincy the second deal above was a requirement. Somebody in NE had to know they needed to trade out of the second round to get more picks if they were going to trade up with only six. Even if that trade fell through…so what… Pats get Jones at least four picks later and save a minimum of 80 draft points (120 if they didn’t leapfrog themselves by trading up twice instead of only once with 31 to Denver
    P.S. anyone else notice that between Jones and Hightower selections only players taken were on the offensive side of the ball, strongly suggesting the Pats took Jones at least four picks too early wasting at least 80 draft points if not more. that’s at least a fourth AND fifth round pick lost. coupled with the lost 400 points on Wilson, that’s almost 25% of the Pats total draft points. Coulda, woulda, shoulda…what’s the definition of genius again: http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/2012-nfl-draft-2nd-day-aftermath.html 

     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Here's a good post that I've just read, on this subject:   MilitStrat54 says: April 28, 2012 at 5:58 am Don’t be upset that BB took Wilson, be upset that he wasted 420 draft points on a kid who doesn’t show up on anyone’s draft boards until the sixth round. nd-day-aftermath.html  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    So Tex, how does this MilitStrat54 character know that no one had Wilson on their draft boards until the sixth round?  Was he in every war room?  Let's face it, this is just a bunch of fans--none of whom knows more than what they read on the internet--speculating. 

    BB made his own evaluation of Wilson's worth and what he might or might not be able to do with his remaining picks when the Pats were on the board at 48.  BB may or may not have made the wrong decision.  But as of now, I have a lot more faith in BB than in some character named MilitStrat54 who, as far as I know, could live in his mother's basement and have some kind of Napolean complex, fancying himself a military strategist and all . . . 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Just perfect. The writer that Texaspat thinks has a "good post" also thinks that BB is not a genius, he is only lucky to have "lucked into Tom Brady".

    He assumes to know for a fact that no other team had Wilson on their boards till rd 6...How did he know that I wonder?

    He also says that the Jones and Hightower picks were reaches and BB got "nervous" suggesting that if this is the case then they should "find something else to do".

    He goes on to say that Romeo Crennel was the real genius and BB just "gets the credit" I can't make this stuff up!!

    TexasPat, good job finding a hardcore anti BB guy to agree with your assessment. You could have just hired local troll BabeParreli to write an article for you on how BB has failed us for so long!

    Good Stuff!!!!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : So Tex, how does this MilitStrat54 character know that no one had Wilson on their draft boards until the sixth round?  Was he in every war room?  Let's face it, this is just a bunch of fans--none of whom knows more than what they read on the internet--speculating.

    RESPONSE: That's right...just as you're speculating that San Diego or some other team was going to pounce on Wilson. But...so what if they did! The bottom line is that this kid wasn't worth spending the 48th overall pick on, from a value standpoint. 
         If you had no inkling that the Pats were interested in Wilson, and some other team took him after the Pats had either traded down or selected, say, one of the top DTs remaining, would it even have fazed you? 
         I don't see anything about Wilson that leads me to believe that he's a significantly better prospect than, say, Brandon Taylor.


    BB made his own evaluation of Wilson's worth and what he might or might not be able to do with his remaining picks when the Pats were on the board at 48.  BB may or may not have made the wrong decision.  But as of now, I have a lot more faith in BB than in some character named MilitStrat54 who, as far as I know, could live in his mother's basement and have some kind of Napolean complex, fancying himself a military strategist and all . . .

    RESPONSE: That's your prerogative. But, BB's track record doesn't merit such blind confidence. In addition, Wilson's body of work in college didn't demonstate that he's an elite prospect...worthy of the 48th pick. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report


    That's right...just as you're speculating that San Diego or some other team was going to pounce on Wilson. But...so what if they did! The bottom line is that this kid wasn't worth spending the 48th overall pick on, from a value standpoint. 
        
    How do you know he wasn't worth the 48th pick?  It's not like there's some kind of absolute standard that applies. If BB thought he was worth the 48th pick and was concerned he might not be able to get him later, then he was worth the 48th pick.  

     If you had no inkling that the Pats were interested in Wilson, and some other team took him after the Pats had either traded down or selected, say, one of the top DTs remaining, would it even have fazed you? 
       
    Of course not.  But it may have fazed BB if BB really wanted the kid, thinking he was the best safety available and needing a decent safety.  My opinions (relatively uninformed) aren't worth a hill of beans compared with BB's.  Neither are yours, for that matter . . . or those of any of the various talking heads who aren't running the team.  

      I don't see anything about Wilson that leads me to believe that he's a significantly better prospect than, say, Brandon Taylor.

    From the film I've looked at, I actually think Wilson looks better.  But I'm not a professional scout.  

    That's your prerogative. But, BB's track record doesn't merit such blind confidence. In addition, Wilson's body of work in college didn't demonstate that he's an elite prospect...worthy of the 48th pick. 

    I've been one of the guys who thinks BB is a very good GM, but not necessarily a whole lot better than few other top GMs.  I fully admit BB makes mistakes in talent evaluation sometimes and that Wilson may turn out to be a mistake.  But I do trust that BB's skills as a talent evaluator are way above those of most of us and most of the various journalists who put together lists.  Having looked at a bunch of the videos now available on the web for Wilson, Taylor, and Ikola, I have to admit I think Wilson is quite comparable.  I also think safety was a big need and while drafting for need isn't always the best strategy, it's better to draft for need and have a safety than draft for value in a position you've already got covered and then not have a safety. 


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sfpat. Show sfpat's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Change the Wilson name to DeVier Posey, the coach from BB to Kubiak and the team from the Pats to the Texans and you have the same exact debate here in Houston.  Fans and local sports journalist are livid that Posey, who they claimed was graded no higher that a 5th/6th round pick, was picked by the Texans in the third round (Texans traded out of the second) instead of Sanu and/or Randell.  To quote "how can Kubiak think he's smarter than everyone else."

    It's not just Pats fans who are upset about the "reaches"
     
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