Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Change the Wilson name to DeVier Posey, the coach from BB to Kubiak and the team from the Pats to the Texans and you have the same exact debate here in Houston.  Fans and local sports journalist are livid that Posey, who they claimed was graded no higher that a 5th/6th round pick, was picked by the Texans in the third round (Texans traded out of the second) instead of Sanu and/or Randell.  To quote "how can Kubiak think he's smarter than everyone else." It's not just Pats fans who are upset about the "reaches"
    Posted by sfpat[/QUOTE]

         The Houston fans are, and should be, upset that their team drafted Posey where they did...at #68 overall. He was a horrible pick.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    MB and TexPat: Thanks again for your efforts with this post and others, I/we always appreciate you both.

    If the 48th pick Wilson troubles you/some a bit then here is why I think Belichick picked him. Yes it is troubling to think the Pats left some 'higher Value' on the board. Here is why I think his 'value' slipped.

    Wilson was a Big Ten 'Honorable mention' by the MEDIA not the COACHES. The question is 'How can the COACHES select him as all Big Ten if the kid plays 5 different slots in the D'Backfield? You can't! He has all the instinctive and athletic moves required as 'another Bob Sanders' that Bill has always coveted.
    Sanders had similar grades and profile for a 2nd rd'er.

    I'm excited with this draft.

    Thank you all for a great forum.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Change the Wilson name to DeVier Posey, the coach from BB to Kubiak and the team from the Pats to the Texans and you have the same exact debate here in Houston.  Fans and local sports journalist are livid that Posey, who they claimed was graded no higher that a 5th/6th round pick, was picked by the Texans in the third round (Texans traded out of the second) instead of Sanu and/or Randell.  To quote "how can Kubiak think he's smarter than everyone else." It's not just Pats fans who are upset about the "reaches"
    Posted by sfpat[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the context.  As best I can determine, a 'reach' is defined as a pick that someone with a laptop and a search feature doesn't agree with.  Perhaps a bit of an oversimplification but, in my judgment, no moreso than someone who's never been in an NFL 'war room' second guessing the most successful GM in the league over the past 10+ years.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

         Apparently, I'm far from alone in being critical of BB's Tavon Wilson pick, at #48. Here is a dirty dozen accumulation of posts on the matter, from other Pats' fans:

    1.) I love what the Patriots did in the first round. But the second round was a disaster. Tavon Wilson is just not that good a football player. Watching tape of him shows that. He had a surprisingly good pro day, which helped him. He has good character. But, his hips aren’t fluid. He’s about to be torched. This pick would have been fine a couple of rounds lower. To pass on Reyes or Worthy really hurts, esp. that both are much better than Love. (BB's ego is getting in his way). The idea of taking a guy no one knew about, a guy who wasn’t all Big Ten first team or second team but merely honorable mention, was too enticing;

    2.) ...I’m surprised no one has talked about the fact that reportedly, the Patriots loved Kendall Reyes DT (UConn). They checked him out multiple times, they were fortunate he was still available at 48. DT was a position of need, and Reyes is a versatile player. Yet, BB takes a guy they could have easily grabbed much much later. The Pats need mulitple bodies and pass rushers – they had that chance with Reyes and Jerel Worthy (another player that visited Pats) – but surprise surprise, another 2nd round brain freeze...and please, no one mention steals the Pats have made in later rounds to justify this nonsensical selection. You draft smart by finding guys late who you project could have earlier round value – NOT by taking a guy in the second who didn’t even merit a Combine invite;

    3.) If he is a project, why draft him in the second round?

    4.) I don’t understand getting cute in the 2nd round? What is the point of accumulating 2nd round picks, when you take players that in that round that you could have easily gotten in the 4-5th round? You can’t fleece all the analysis out there, which is ad nauseum. I will take the mass analysis consensus over the BB off the wall pick any day these days. This has bust written all over it. I don’t even see his name on top 20 lists at the Safety position...Bottom line, this kid could have been had much, much later in the draft.

    5.) Didn't anyone in the Draft Room have the balls to say to BB that is was not the time or place for taking Wilson, at #48? I had sheets out with the top 300 prospects, and Tavon Wilson was not on it…Don’t Figure….

    6.) A reach is a reach; a player who could have easily been drafted later (often much later). Why waste a pick early when you can still get your guy later? And for the record, Vollmer is average and injury-plagued. Getting lucky on a reach doesn’t make up for guys like Wheatley and Brace.

    7.) This pick makes me sick to my stomach. The reason N.E. has such a bad time drafting CB’s is because they make crazy reaches like this. I would rather have had the Pats take any of the next picks, all the way to Denver's pick.

    8.) Weve been signing vets in the secondary, and we have plenty of young talent. Why spend a 2nd round pick on this guy? Nothing against him, but it seems as if since we drafted so well yesterday we have to make up for it, and draft what seems to be a 4-5 rounder. I wish we would have at least used it on Devon still DT, or Chris Rainey RB

    9.) Confused…..How can all these people evaluating these prospects be this wrong……Mike Adams went at 56, Reuben Randle at 63, Jerel Worthy 51, Konz #55, and my guy Kendall Reyes at #49...BB really missed the barn on this pick...in fact, the whole second day! Now I’ve got to go to my anger management class!!

    10.) I don’t understand the Wilson pick, whatever these guys know better than we do. What I really don’t get is why couldn’t we move back, pick up an extra 4th or 5th, and get him in 5th or 6th round? Makes no sense….

    11.) Horrible, horrible pick. What happened to trust your board? After the day one/first round euphoria, we pull this crap. Going to be the worse pick of the draft for any team. Takes the grade from an A to D-. So depressing.

    12.) Illinois is consistently one of the WORST coached programs in America. Each year they churn out first and second rounders, yet the Illini are more than likely awful each season. Zook could recruit the best of them, but when it came to developing them to help his own butt, he failed miserably. Perhaps BB picked him knowing the kid was not coached well, and, working with the Pats secondary guys, he could be a legit pick?

    http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/patriots-draft-tavon-wilson-shock-the-world.html

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]     Apparently, I'm far from alone in being critical of BB's Tavon Wilson pick, at #48. Here is a dirty dozen accumulation of posts on the matter, from other Pats' fans: 1.) I love what the Patriots did in the first round. But the second round was a disaster. Tavon Wilson is just not that good a football player . Watching tape of him shows that. He had a surprisingly good pro day, which helped him. He has good character. But, his hips aren’t fluid. He’s about to be torched. This pick would have been fine a couple of rounds lower. To pass on Reyes or Worthy really hurts, esp. that both are much better than Love. (BB's ego is getting in his way). The idea of taking a guy no one knew about, a guy who wasn’t all Big Ten first team or second team but merely honorable mention, was too enticing; 2.) ...I’m surprised no one has talked about the fact that reportedly, the Patriots loved Kendall Reyes DT (UConn). They checked him out multiple times, they were fortunate he was still available at 48. DT was a position of need, and Reyes is a versatile player. Yet, BB takes a guy they could have easily grabbed much much later. The Pats need mulitple bodies and pass rushers – they had that chance with Reyes and Jerel Worthy (another player that visited Pats) – but surprise surprise, another 2nd round brain freeze...and please, no one mention steals the Pats have made in later rounds to justify this nonsensical selection. You draft smart by finding guys late who you project could have earlier round value – NOT by taking a guy in the second who didn’t even merit a Combine invite; 3.) If he is a project, why draft him in the second round? 4.) I don’t understand getting cute in the 2nd round? What is the point of accumulating 2nd round picks, when you take players that in that round that you could have easily gotten in the 4-5th round? You can’t fleece all the analysis out there, which is ad nauseum. I will take the mass analysis consensus over the BB off the wall pick any day these days. This has bust written all over it. I don’t even see his name on top 20 lists at the Safety position...Bottom line, this kid could have been had much, much later in the draft. 5.) Didn't anyone in the Draft Room have the balls to say to BB that is was not the time or place for taking Wilson, at #48? I had sheets out with the top 300 prospects, and Tavon Wilson was not on it…Don’t Figure…. 6.) A reach is a reach; a player who could have easily been drafted later (often much later). Why waste a pick early when you can still get your guy later? And for the record, Vollmer is average and injury-plagued. Getting lucky on a reach doesn’t make up for guys like Wheatley and Brace. 7.) This pick makes me sick to my stomach. The reason N.E. has such a bad time drafting CB’s is because they make crazy reaches like this. I would rather have had the Pats take any of the next picks, all the way to Denver's pick. 8.) Weve been signing vets in the secondary, and we have plenty of young talent. Why spend a 2nd round pick on this guy? Nothing against him, but it seems as if since we drafted so well yesterday we have to make up for it, and draft what seems to be a 4-5 rounder. I wish we would have at least used it on Devon still DT, or Chris Rainey RB 9.) Confused…..How can all these people evaluating these prospects be this wrong……Mike Adams went at 56, Reuben Randle at 63, Jerel Worthy 51, Konz #55, and my guy Kendall Reyes at #49...BB really missed the barn on this pick...in fact, the whole second day! Now I’ve got to go to my anger management class!! 10.) I don’t understand the Wilson pick, whatever these guys know better than we do. What I really don’t get is why couldn’t we move back, pick up an extra 4th or 5th, and get him in 5th or 6th round? Makes no sense…. 11.) Horrible, horrible pick. What happened to trust your board? After the day one/first round euphoria, we pull this crap. Going to be the worse pick of the draft for any team. Takes the grade from an A to D-. So depressing. 12.) Illinois is consistently one of the WORST coached programs in America. Each year they churn out first and second rounders, yet the Illini are more than likely awful each season. Zook could recruit the best of them, but when it came to developing them to help his own butt, he failed miserably. Perhaps BB picked him knowing the kid was not coached well, and, working with the Pats secondary guys, he could be a legit pick? http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/patriots-draft-tavon-wilson-shock-the-world.html
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]
    Maybe I can go copy and paste all my friends opinions on here and then we can add them up and the one with the most opinions determines whether Tavon will be any good.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Tex, I respect your opinion. I just think you take it too far saying that picks like these are the reason BB will not win a 4rth SB. We were all surprised with the pick but we needed a safety more then a DT imo, and BB obviously thought this was his guy. I too wanted Reyes, but we do have depth on the D line without him. Yes this pick is a reach but that is not a terrible thing. We just LOADED up on defense through FA and the draft. Add in some guys getting healthy from last year(Dowling,Deadrick) and I like the look of our D, especially our front 7!
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    No disrespect, TP, but every one of the above 12 posts is based on uninformed subjectivity.  How can anyone know that Wilson was a reach and that he could have been had in the later rounds unless they were in the war rooms of all 31 other teams?  If they weren't, then there is no way that claim has any validity. 
    I'm now officially done posting on the Wilson pick.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]No disrespect, TP, but every one of the above 12 posts is based on uninformed subjectivity.  How can anyone know that Wilson was a reach and that he could have been had in the later rounds unless they were in the war rooms of all 31 other teams?  If they weren't, then there is no way that claim has any validity.  I'm now officially done posting on the Wilson pick.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    Subjectivity?  No, no, no, ATJ.  Look, TP has clearly posted a dozen comments by nameless, faceless people on a website.  People deemed to have enough expertise by the the people that control the internet that they were allowed a username and password so they could partake their knowledge on the world. 

    I mean, they don't just let anyone on the internet, man....If that were the case, there'd be all kinds of crazy ss*^t on here!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]No disrespect, TP, but every one of the above 12 posts is based on uninformed subjectivity.

    RESPONSE: Their comments are subjective...but not uninformed. Based on the player reports available to them, they are quite correct. We'll see who is right...BB and his scouting staff, or or the media type draft cites...some of which are very good.
         As I've previously posted, the late Joel Buchbaum of ProFootball Weekly was a good friend of BB. Belichick has admitted that, before Buchbaum passed away, he had offered him a job several times with the Pats...and would actually contact Buchbaum on the eve of the draft, to discuss the Patriots' draft board with him. BB said that he would implement changes that Buchbaum would recommend. So...for fans to completely disregard ProFootball Weekly, OurLads, and Mel Kiper's Draft work, just because they don't work for an NFL team, is silly. These draft services seem to have the majority of the players rated in the right vicinity, year after year.  

    How can anyone know that Wilson was a reach and that he could have been had in the later rounds unless they were in the war rooms of all 31 other teams?

    RESPONSE: How do you know that this was not the case? Even if some other team had the hots for Wilson, was he really worth of the 48th overall pick? Do you really believe that Wilson is a better prospect the DL prospects available, such as Jerel Worthy, Devon Still, Reyes, and Vinny Curry? Is he that much a better safety prospect that LSU's Brandon Taylor? Wouldn't taking one of the d-lineman been worth the risk  of trying to land Wilson, say, in round 5?  
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Subjectivity?  No, no, no, ATJ.  Look, TP has clearly posted a dozen comments by nameless, faceless people on a website.  People deemed to have enough expertise by the the people that control the internet that they were allowed a username and password so they could partake their knowledge on the world.  I mean, they don't just let anyone on the internet, man....If that were the case, there'd be all kinds of crazy ss*^t on here!
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Oh - my bad.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Not only are we not on the same page, TP, we are not even in the same library.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report



    Tex, the fact that BB respected Buchbaum's opinion does not mean that he respects Mel Kiper's.  As far as I know, he hasn't offered Kiper -- or any of the other draftniks -- a job yet. 

    This site you refer us to is run by these three guys--I doubt BB is knocking on their doors to offer them jobs . . .

    About NEPD

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    NEPatriotsDraft.com was featured this spring in the USA Today Draft Preview magazine.

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    James finished recently 2nd place in the 2011 Big Board competition, hosted by the Huddle Report. He has finished as high as 4th (2008) in the Huddle Report’s Mock Draft challenge.

    He is a current member of the Football Writers Association of America.

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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Here's a guy that disagrees TP.  He might actually be one that has an educated opinion due to working with the kid for 4 yrs.

     http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4721523/ex-illinois-coach-lauds-wilsons-versatility
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Seriously 6 pages on this guy????  Why in the world are we not spending time talking about how Jones and Hightower are going to transform the Defense then on where this guy should have been picked.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Seriously 6 pages on this guy????  Why in the world are we not spending time talking about how Jones and Hightower are going to transform the Defense then on where this guy should have been picked.
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    I think if you subtract all the TP posts it is closer to 1 page. So it really isn't as bad as it looks.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]     Apparently, I'm far from alone in being critical of BB's Tavon Wilson pick, at #48. Here is a dirty dozen accumulation of posts on the matter, from other Pats' fans: 1.) I love what the Patriots did in the first round. But the second round was a disaster. Tavon Wilson is just not that good a football player . Watching tape of him shows that. He had a surprisingly good pro day, which helped him. He has good character. But, his hips aren’t fluid. He’s about to be torched. This pick would have been fine a couple of rounds lower. To pass on Reyes or Worthy really hurts, esp. that both are much better than Love. (BB's ego is getting in his way). The idea of taking a guy no one knew about, a guy who wasn’t all Big Ten first team or second team but merely honorable mention, was too enticing; 2.) ...I’m surprised no one has talked about the fact that reportedly, the Patriots loved Kendall Reyes DT (UConn). They checked him out multiple times, they were fortunate he was still available at 48. DT was a position of need, and Reyes is a versatile player. Yet, BB takes a guy they could have easily grabbed much much later. The Pats need mulitple bodies and pass rushers – they had that chance with Reyes and Jerel Worthy (another player that visited Pats) – but surprise surprise, another 2nd round brain freeze...and please, no one mention steals the Pats have made in later rounds to justify this nonsensical selection. You draft smart by finding guys late who you project could have earlier round value – NOT by taking a guy in the second who didn’t even merit a Combine invite; 3.) If he is a project, why draft him in the second round? 4.) I don’t understand getting cute in the 2nd round? What is the point of accumulating 2nd round picks, when you take players that in that round that you could have easily gotten in the 4-5th round? You can’t fleece all the analysis out there, which is ad nauseum. I will take the mass analysis consensus over the BB off the wall pick any day these days. This has bust written all over it. I don’t even see his name on top 20 lists at the Safety position...Bottom line, this kid could have been had much, much later in the draft. 5.) Didn't anyone in the Draft Room have the balls to say to BB that is was not the time or place for taking Wilson, at #48? I had sheets out with the top 300 prospects, and Tavon Wilson was not on it…Don’t Figure…. 6.) A reach is a reach; a player who could have easily been drafted later (often much later). Why waste a pick early when you can still get your guy later? And for the record, Vollmer is average and injury-plagued. Getting lucky on a reach doesn’t make up for guys like Wheatley and Brace. 7.) This pick makes me sick to my stomach. The reason N.E. has such a bad time drafting CB’s is because they make crazy reaches like this. I would rather have had the Pats take any of the next picks, all the way to Denver's pick. 8.) Weve been signing vets in the secondary, and we have plenty of young talent. Why spend a 2nd round pick on this guy? Nothing against him, but it seems as if since we drafted so well yesterday we have to make up for it, and draft what seems to be a 4-5 rounder. I wish we would have at least used it on Devon still DT, or Chris Rainey RB 9.) Confused…..How can all these people evaluating these prospects be this wrong……Mike Adams went at 56, Reuben Randle at 63, Jerel Worthy 51, Konz #55, and my guy Kendall Reyes at #49...BB really missed the barn on this pick...in fact, the whole second day! Now I’ve got to go to my anger management class!! 10.) I don’t understand the Wilson pick, whatever these guys know better than we do. What I really don’t get is why couldn’t we move back, pick up an extra 4th or 5th, and get him in 5th or 6th round? Makes no sense…. 11.) Horrible, horrible pick. What happened to trust your board? After the day one/first round euphoria, we pull this crap. Going to be the worse pick of the draft for any team. Takes the grade from an A to D-. So depressing. 12.) Illinois is consistently one of the WORST coached programs in America. Each year they churn out first and second rounders, yet the Illini are more than likely awful each season. Zook could recruit the best of them, but when it came to developing them to help his own butt, he failed miserably. Perhaps BB picked him knowing the kid was not coached well, and, working with the Pats secondary guys, he could be a legit pick? http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/patriots-draft-tavon-wilson-shock-the-world.html
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I agree. I didn't like the pick at the time because of the players that were bypassed to get this guy. I then watched the film that is out there on him and after watching it, I must say I'm even more perplexed. When they took Vollmer I was shocked, but when I watched the film on him I could easily see the talent he had and felt a lot better about it....not with this one.

    Look I realize BB can study a defensive back and know what he's looking at better than me, but man I really have no idea what he saw in this guy. He looks small to me for safety. He looks like he doesn't have as much deep speed as a guy picked that high should have. He doesn't look strong when taking on blocks or trying to bring down people with the ball. He looks like he doesn't know how to tackle, but would rather throw his shoulder at someone. How do these things work in the NFL?

    He does look like he's got good quickness and he was lined up all over the field...and he did seem to be in on a lot of plays, but does that make up for everything else? 
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Tex, the fact that BB respected Buchbaum's opinion does not mean that he respects Mel Kiper's.  As far as I know, he hasn't offered Kiper -- or any of the other draftniks -- a job yet.

    Kiper is not the only person, draftnik, or draft publication that thought this was a horrible pick. They all did...including ProFootball Weekly...who did not even have Wilson listed as available for this draft.

    This site you refer us to is run by these three guys--I doubt BB is knocking on their doors to offer them jobs . . .

    RESPONSE: Why do you doubt that, since, on numerous occasions, BB had offered Buchbaum a job? Surely, Buchbaum must have had some talented assistants working with him. Though a guy like Buchbaum never played the game, he nonetheless had an undeniable passion for it, and made it his life's work. Guys who are passionate about what they do make the best employees.

    About NEPD NE Patriots Draft has been delivering NFL Draft information and analysis since February 2008. We have been featured on sites such as the New York Times, ESPN.com, Sports Illustrated, Deadspin, Patriots Insider, The Big Lead, WEEI.com, and NESN.com. NEPatriotsDraft.com was featured this spring in the USA Today Draft Preview magazine. We have also appeared on Comcast SportsNet’s “Sports Tonight” and WGAM radio.  If you are interested in a media appearance, you can contact us here. Our Staff: James Christensen -  James Christensen is the lead writer, scout, and owner of NEPatriotsDraft.com.
     
    RESPONSE: It's a good cite, with a good track record, especially considering that this group hasn't been around very long. They were shocked by the Wilson pick, too:
    http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/04/patriots-draft-tavon-wilson-shock-the-world.html

         He is a veteran NFL Draft Writer that has covered the Patriots for close to a decade in one fashion or another. You can also find his work in the USA Today NFL Draft Preview magazine. James finished recently 2nd place in the 2011 Big Board competition, hosted by the Huddle Report. He has finished as high as 4th (2008) in the Huddle Report’s Mock Draft challenge. He is a current member of the Football Writers Association of America. Doug Kyed @ DougKyedNEPD NFL Draft Analyst & Editor at NEPatriotsDraft.com, @ EmersonAlumni , Bad Jokes. Allston, MA · http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com Doug Kyed- Doug is our staff writer for all things Patriots as well as the NFL Draft. You can find him scouting at the Senior Bowl this winter as well. Mike Loyko – Mike is a staff scout, covering games from the sidelines as well as watching film. He will be making his first trip to the Senior Bowl this winter.

    RESPONSE: As I stated above, it's a good group. I respect and enjoy their work. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    First of all Tex,

    You are correct about Joel B.  Everything you said about him was true.  He was however a very different cat from the rest of the draft media.  He was both a genius and a recluse.  A very respected man in the scouting community.  To somehow lump him in with the likes of Mel Kiper and his ilk is lunacy.  Also keep in mind Tex that the reason that Joel B appeared so often to be right was because he had enough sense to ALWAYS LIST BOTH STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES for all athletes, thus he could never be completely wrong about anyone.  I remember always being concerned about every pick the Pats made because of the negative sides of every player that he so carefully would report.  I can still remember how utterly upset I was when the Pats drafted Curtis Martin based on Joel's assessment.  Something along the lines of not particularly fast, powerful, or durable... Nailed it didn't he?

    That being said, even Joel B was as wrong as anybody else in the Draft Media.  I Studied this a while back (I'm guessing around late 90's), compared how often he was right about 1st and 2nd round picks vs Mel Kiper, Ourlads, Sporting News and whatever draft media I could get my hands on.  I was shocked to find out that he was only right at about the rate as the more well known media outlets!  He had always been my "go to" for inside knowledge but it turns out that he was only average as far as predicting a high draft picks chances of being a solid starter in the NFL.  What he was superior at was giving you much greater detail than ANY other publication so that when a 1st rounder went "bust" you usually already had an inkling that it was possible. 

    Having said this you neglected to mention that PFW has since (After Joel's death) been sold and is now owned by Source Interlink Companies and is just another "draft rag" with little more credibility than "Bleacher Report" or Mel Kiper Jr.

    BOTTOM LINE TEX,  You are getting your info from the same place the rest of us get it from (which is to say sketchy interpretation of readily available data) so please stop making yourself sound more informed than the rest of us. My guess is that you just have more time on your hands.  As I have stated before members of the draft media are not working these kids out at private workouts, interviewing them at the combine, getting honest opinions from their coaches, testing them about their football IQ, coaching them at the Senior Bowl, seeing them play live, or getting inside info from their friends in the college coaching community... Not to mention that these clowns can be wrong with no consequences... Try that as an NFL GM and see how long you last.

    SO HERE IS THE CHALLENGE TEX!

    I DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD TAVON WILSON IS... But I am willing to admit that I was wrong in saying "in BB I trust" IF after 3 years he is not a legit starter (barring injury).  I WILL ADMIT THAT I WAS WRONG AND YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!!

    If he is a legit starter than you would have to STOP POSTING AS IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING THAT THE REST OF US DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You would no longer post as if you are Bill Belichick's peer or as you sometimes do... As his mental superior.  You would have to admit that you are wrong and you may not know as much about the draft as you think you do.

    THIS IS A CHALLENGE TEX!

    DO YOU HAVE THE 'NADS TO TAKE IT ON.  PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!  MONEY TALKS AND BS WALKS.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : I agree. I didn't like the pick at the time because of the players that were bypassed to get this guy. I then watched the film that is out there on him and after watching it, I must say I'm even more perplexed. When they took Vollmer I was shocked, but when I watched the film on him I could easily see the talent he had and felt a lot better about it....not with this one. Look I realize BB can study a defensive back and know what he's looking at better than me, but man I really have no idea what he saw in this guy. He looks small to me for safety. He looks like he doesn't have as much deep speed as a guy picked that high should have. He doesn't look strong when taking on blocks or trying to bring down people with the ball. He looks like he doesn't know how to tackle, but would rather throw his shoulder at someone. How do these things work in the NFL? He does look like he's got good quickness and he was lined up all over the field...and he did seem to be in on a lot of plays, but does that make up for everything else? 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    mthurl . . . compared to some of the other safeties I watched, I thought Wilson looked much more decisive and more likely to be in the right place either to make a play or at least prevent a bigger gain.  His positioning and angles generally looked good to me, he fought off blocks better than many of the other safeties I saw, he was consistently around the ball and involved in the play, and he whiffed on tackles far less than guys like Taylor and Iloka (who often were out of position or, in Iloka's case, tentative).  Wilson did have some poor showings in pass coverage, but mostly when playing corner (I think he's more a safety than corner and probably better in zone than man-to-man, at least based on the few clips I saw).  I agree about him not wrapping up well enough--but he hit solidly and took his men out most of the time, even if he did use his shoulder to tackle (and I think you can coach him to wrap up better).
     
    What I like best is he seems like a smart, decisive player who won't be out of position.  His physical skills may not equal Merriweather's, but I get the sense he'll be a better safety because he'll play with more discipline--more like Sanders. 

    Of course, he could also turn out to be a bust . . . I agree that BB's record drafting DBs hasn't been stellar, but after watching tape of Wilson and other safeties available at 48 I really don't think Wilson was the "reach" some are saying.  It may be that there was better talent available at other positions, but the hole at safety is so big that BB had no choice but to try to fill it I think.  Drafting for need is never a great thing to have to do, but going into the season without a viable second safety really isn't acceptable either.  I think BB knew he had to at least gamble on getting someone who might contribute at that position and, with two quality draft picks already made, was comfortable taking a gamble at a crucial and still unfilled position.  If BB hadn't picked up someone in the draft, we'd be relying on what we relied on last year--street free agents and other assorted flotsam and jetsam. That's not really a great option.  I'm glad BB took the risk and hopefully it works out. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : First of all Tex, You are correct about Joel B.  Everything you said about him was true.  He was however a very different cat from the rest of the draft media.  He was both a genius and a recluse.  A very respected man in the scouting community.  To somehow lump him in with the likes of Mel Kiper and his ilk is lunacy.
     
    RESPONSE Why is that...and why so much hate for Mel? He was the first to have the foresight to turn the NFL Draft into practically a year-round business. The Draft is as big as it is, in a large part, thanks to him. He's very passionate about what he does. Even though he's not always right (who is) with his predictions, he knows who all the players are...and gives guys like us, who don't have privy to the teams' war-rooms, an idea of who each player is, their strengths and weaknesses, and their ranks.   

    Also keep in mind Tex that the reason that Joel B appeared so often to be right was because he had enough sense to ALWAYS LIST BOTH STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES for all athletes, thus he could never be completely wrong about anyone.  I remember always being concerned about every pick the Pats made because of the negative sides of every player that he so carefully would report.  I can still remember how utterly upset I was when the Pats drafted Curtis Martin based on Joel's assessment.  Something along the lines of not particularly fast, powerful, or durable... Nailed it didn't he?
     
    RESPONSE: All the publications, and all the talking heads do that. But, even though Buchbaum pointed out a players' weaknesses, he still ranked each prospect, from best to marginal. So...he still put himself out there. 

    That being said, even Joel B was as wrong as anybody else in the Draft Media.  I Studied this a while back (I'm guessing around late 90's), compared how often he was right about 1st and 2nd round picks vs Mel Kiper, Ourlads, Sporting News and whatever draft media I could get my hands on.  I was shocked to find out that he was only right at about the rate as the more well known media outlets!  He had always been my "go to" for inside knowledge but it turns out that he was only average as far as predicting a high draft picks chances of being a solid starter in the NFL.  What he was superior at was giving you much greater detail than ANY other publication so that when a 1st rounder went "bust" you usually already had an inkling that it was possible.

    RESPONSE: Maybe so...but BB has stated he thought enough of Buchbaum's opinions that he would discuss his final draft board with Buchbaum...and make whatever changes that Buchbaum would suggest. High praise, indeed.

    Having said this you neglected to mention that PFW has since (After Joel's death) been sold and is now owned by Source Interlink Companies and is just another "draft rag" with little more credibility than "Bleacher Report" or Mel Kiper Jr. BOTTOM LINE TEX,  You are getting your info from the same place the rest of us get it from (which is to say sketchy interpretation of readily available data) so please stop making yourself sound more informed than the rest of us. My guess is that you just have more time on your hands.  As I have stated before members of the draft media are not working these kids out at private workouts, interviewing them at the combine, getting honest opinions from their coaches, testing them about their football IQ, coaching them at the Senior Bowl, seeing them play live, or getting inside info from their friends in the college coaching community... Not to mention that these clowns can be wrong with no consequences... Try that as an NFL GM and see how long you last.
     
    RESPONSE: I've also seen watched some of these players play, and keep up with this stuff. I read almost everything that I can get my hands on...and have some experience playing the game. I'm very passionate about it, to the point where it has become my hobby. I enjoy talking about this stuff, and giving my opinion. If that bothers you...don't read. 

    SO HERE IS THE CHALLENGE TEX! I DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD TAVON WILSON IS... But I am willing to admit that I was wrong in saying "in BB I trust" IF after 3 years he is not a legit starter (barring injury).  I WILL ADMIT THAT I WAS WRONG AND YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!! If he is a legit starter than you would have to STOP POSTING AS IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING THAT THE REST OF US DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    RESPONSE: Again, if what I do bothers you, nobody is forcing you to read what I write. I have an opinion that Wilson should not have been taken at pick #48. I'm not saying that he won't be a good player. What I'm saying is that BB should have gotten much better value for such a high pick. I formed this opinion when I learned that all of the major draft publications rated him as a 6-7th round pick at best, as did every talking head, every article I've read, and from the body of work Wilson possted at Illinois. I feel that there were better prospects available at #48...and if the Pats really wanted this guy, they should have traded down.
         Sorry, but Wilson not having a record for being a ball-hawk, and him being named "honorable mention" in the Big 10, doesn't excite me. I see him as a project. BB obviously sees some good qualities about him, and hopes to coach him up into a solid player. All this would be well and good, if Wilson were a 5th round pick. But, the 48th overall player selected should be more of a finished product. BB should not be using such a high pick to manufacture a safety.      


    You would no longer post as if you are Bill Belichick's peer or as you sometimes do... As his mental superior.  You would have to admit that you are wrong and you may not know as much about the draft as you think you do. THIS IS A CHALLENGE TEX! DO YOU HAVE THE 'NADS TO TAKE IT ON.  PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!  MONEY TALKS AND BS WALKS.

    RESPONSE: Again, if my opinions bother you, no one is forcing you to read. Unlike you, who are non-committal, at least I have "the 'nads" to give my opinion...and put myself out there. 
    Posted by mar10[/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    as I have mentioned on other posts, I thought the Pats mistake was taking Hightower over Smith in round 1. If Smith was taken, that would have opened up rd 2 to any number of players. Because Smith was passed, that forced the Pats hand to S.
     

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