Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report



    Here's where I disagree with you Tex.  There is no absolute (and simplistic) formula that determines the value of a prospect and where he should be picked. That's an idea that talking heads like to bandy about but BB has a much more complex and subtle way of managing his drafts.  He's not using simplistic one- or even two-dimensional formula to decided what to do.  Instead, he's taking into account a whole broad array of variables and making his determination based on all those variables.  I'm sure some of the things that BB weighed in the balance at 48 were the following:

    BB's assessment of Wilson's skills relative to those of other available players and particularly to those of other available DBs 

    BB's assessment about how he might use Wilson in his defense (which may be as more of a hybrid DB-LB than a straight DB) and on special teams

    The current hole at DB and the options he has (within the draft and outside the draft) to fill that hole

    The remaining picks he had and what he might do with them

    The actual trade offers he had (or could get) at the time the pick was about to be made

    His best assessment of what other teams might be interested in Wilson and when they might pick him (something of a guess)

    The other players available to him at 48

    The other DBs likely to be available later in the draft 


    All of these factors (and probably others) were necessary to consider to decide what course of action made the most sense to build the team both for next season and for the longer term.  If BB felt that filling the hole at safety was absolutely essential before next season and Wilson was the best way to do it and that passing on Wilson at 48 put the Pats at too large a risk of not getting Wilson and therefore not adequately filling the hole, then the decision to draft Wilson at 48 was a smart one that offered the best value for the Patriots.  Just because the value didn't add up on Mel Kiper's (or whoever's) value chart isn't worth anything.  The specific value to the Pats is all that counts and all that BB needs to consider. Some theoretical general value is meaningless when it comes to figuring out how to get the best possible team on the field next season and in future seasons. 

    Simply put: adding another WR or DT who may have had more "value" according to Kiper (or whoever) wouldn't help the Pats if they played all year without an adequate safety.  If drafting Wilson was the way BB felt he could best increase his chances of having an adequate player in a key --and currently unfilled-- position, then he made the right decision.

    Of course, every pick can be a bust, so Wilson may not pan out . . . but I don't think BB made a mistake.  I think he was just considering way more variables than Mel Kiper does.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    I hope Wilson is aware of all his doubters
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]I hope Wilson is aware of all his doubters
    Posted by magicalhobo[/QUOTE]

    Yeah . . . maybe he'll have that same chip on his shoulder Brady has . . .
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Here's where I disagree with you Tex.  There is no absolute (and simplistic) formula that determines the value of a prospect and where he should be picked. That's an idea that talking heads like to bandy about but BB has a much more complex and subtle way of managing his drafts.  He's not using simplistic one- or even two-dimensional formula to decided what to do.  Instead, he's taking into account a whole broad array of variables and making his determination based on all those variables.  I'm sure some of the things that BB weighed in the balance at 48 were the following: BB's assessment of Wilson's skills relative to those of other available players and particularly to those of other available DBs  BB's assessment about how he might use Wilson in his defense (which may be as more of a hybrid DB-LB than a straight DB) and on special teams The current hole at DB and the options he has (within the draft and outside the draft) to fill that hole The remaining picks he had and what he might do with them The actual trade offers he had (or could get) at the time the pick was about to be made His best assessment of what other teams might be interested in Wilson and when they might pick him (something of a guess) The other players available to him at 48 The other DBs likely to be available later in the draft  All of these factors (and probably others) were necessary to consider to decide what course of action made the most sense to build the team both for next season and for the longer term.  If BB felt that filling the hole at safety was absolutely essential before next season and Wilson was the best way to do it and that passing on Wilson at 48 put the Pats at too large a risk of not getting Wilson and therefore not adequately filling the hole, then the decision to draft Wilson at 48 was a smart one that offered the best value for the Patriots.  Just because the value didn't add up on Mel Kiper's (or whoever's) value chart isn't worth anything.  The specific value to the Pats is all that counts and all that BB needs to consider. Some theoretical general value is meaningless when it comes to figuring out how to get the best possible team on the field next season and in future seasons.  Simply put: adding another WR or DT who may have had more "value" according to Kiper (or whoever) wouldn't help the Pats if they played all year without an adequate safety.  If drafting Wilson was the way BB felt he could best increase his chances of having an adequate player in a key --and currently unfilled-- position, then he made the right decision. Of course, every pick can be a bust, so Wilson may not pan out . . . but I don't think BB made a mistake.  I think he was just considering way more variables than Mel Kiper does.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         Thank you for your excellent post. You make some good points...and I hope BB was even half as vigilant as you propose he might have been. But, isn't drafting a bit like gambling, where you play the odds? You base those odds on whether a player has prototypical size and speed, has shown leadership skills and high character, and whose body of work in college shows that he's elite at his respective position. Wilson seems to possess everything, except the body of work in college showing that he's an elite player. To me, that's a major concern. For that reason, I fear that, in taking Wilson, BB is hoping to convert all of his qualities, and coach him up. In other words, I fear that he's trying to manufacture a safety.

         As I've stated previously, I have no problem with this, if Wilson were, say, a 5th or even a 4th round pick. But, the 48th overall player selected should be a finished product. I do not think it wise to ever draft just to fill one positional need.

         I realize that the ats'  badly need a safety. But, I don't see the solution being had reaching for one...especially with such a hig pick. Do the names Guss Scott and Dexter Reid ring a bell? They were selected back to back (3rd and 4th rounds) by BB in the 2004 draft, the 95th and 113th player selected, respectively. How did that pan out?     

         Better to go with the best player available at one of a teams' several positions of need, than to target a particular position...and take a guy with good raw materials, in hopes of converting him into a solid player. If Wilson wasn't an elite player in college, what makes you think that he'll become successful in the NFL?
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Here's a guy that disagrees TP.  He might actually be one that has an educated opinion due to working with the kid for 4 yrs.   http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4721523/ex-illinois-coach-lauds-wilsons-versatility
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]
    I feel like this got lost in the shuffle...
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Well his college coach sure does like him.  See below

    FOXBOROUGH, Mass -- The New England Patriots raised some eyebrows amongst draft experts and fans by selecting Illinois safety Tavon Wilson in the second round of the draft (48th overall), but not everyone was surprised by the team’s decision.

    “Not at all,” said Ron Zook, the former Illinois head coach who called on Wilson to start 39 of his 50 career games from 2008 to 2011.

    “I’ve been with him for four years -- he’s played corner, he’s played safety, and to me what happened is Coach Belichick and his staff, they just did their homework. They went out there and they found not only a great person, but a guy that’s going to come in and (play) for an awful long time in the National Football League.”

    [+] Enlarge
    Tavon Wilson
    AP Photo/Pat Lovell"He's played corner, he's played safety, and to me what happened is Coach Belichick and his staff, they just did their homework," says former Illinois head coach Ron Zook on New England's selection of Tavon Wilson.
    Zook, who worked with ESPN’s Jon Gruden and CBS Sports leading into the draft, believes that Wilson was the third-best available safety, behind only Alabama’s Mark Barron and Notre Dame’s Harrison Smith, who were first-round selections.

    Zook said Wilson’s versatility and ability to play cornerback or safety was due in part to his commitment to winning and doing what was best for the team.

    “I think one of the things that helped him is playing both positions. Personally I think he’s probably more of a safety,” Zook said.

    “...I think he’s a guy that can play there in the slot. I think everybody is always looking for a safety that can play man, and play in these multiple formations and so forth, can play man-to-man on that inside receiver guy, and he’s a guy that can do that.”

    The Patriots’ struggles in the secondary in 2011 are well-chronicled, and the team has worked to address the issue throughout the offseason with the free-agent additions of veterans Steve Gregory (safety) and Will Allen (cornerback), along with the selections of Wilson and former Nebraska cornerback Alfonzo Dennard (seventh round).

    But Zook doesn’t believe Wilson’s impact will be limited to just defense, as he lauded the 22-year-old’s ability to compete on special teams.

    “He’ll be on all the special teams," said Zook. "He’s one of those guys that will want to be on them, and you know one position that a lot of people don’t understand -- you have to learn how to play special teams,” he said. “A lot of times guys don’t play them until they get to the NFL. Well, Tavon is experienced in all phases, with the exception of extra point/field goal protection. He’s been on all the other phases. He was on the hands team, he was on kickoff return, kickoff, and he knows how to play special teams. And believe me, there’s a lot more to it than what people think. He’ll give you everything he’s got.”

    Naturally, Zook has no problem finding plenty to like about Wilson’s game, including a work ethic, toughness and tackling ability comparable to former Illinois standout Vontae Davis, the starting cornerback for the Miami Dolphins. He also acknowledges Wilson’s affinity for contact, noting, “He’s not a guy that’s ever hurt.”

    Zook is aware that some might be doubting the Patriots’ selection of Wilson, but not him.

    “I think one thing that people are going to see is that he’s a heck of a lot better player than what they might think,” he said. “Because they didn’t know a lot about him, there’s going to be a lot of question marks, but I promise you, he’s going to come in there and he’ll show people that he’s deserving of the position he was drafted.”
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : mthurl . . . compared to some of the other safeties I watched, I thought Wilson looked much more decisive and more likely to be in the right place either to make a play or at least prevent a bigger gain.  His positioning and angles generally looked good to me, he fought off blocks better than many of the other safeties I saw, he was consistently around the ball and involved in the play, and he whiffed on tackles far less than guys like Taylor and Iloka (who often were out of position or, in Iloka's case, tentative).  Wilson did have some poor showings in pass coverage, but mostly when playing corner (I think he's more a safety than corner and probably better in zone than man-to-man, at least based on the few clips I saw).  I agree about him not wrapping up well enough--but he hit solidly and took his men out most of the time, even if he did use his shoulder to tackle (and I think you can coach him to wrap up better).   What I like best is he seems like a smart, decisive player who won't be out of position.  His physical skills may not equal Merriweather's, but I get the sense he'll be a better safety because he'll play with more discipline--more like Sanders.  Of course, he could also turn out to be a bust . . . I agree that BB's record drafting DBs hasn't been stellar, but after watching tape of Wilson and other safeties available at 48 I really don't think Wilson was the "reach" some are saying.  It may be that there was better talent available at other positions, but the hole at safety is so big that BB had no choice but to try to fill it I think.  Drafting for need is never a great thing to have to do, but going into the season without a viable second safety really isn't acceptable either.  I think BB knew he had to at least gamble on getting someone who might contribute at that position and, with two quality draft picks already made, was comfortable taking a gamble at a crucial and still unfilled position.  If BB hadn't picked up someone in the draft, we'd be relying on what we relied on last year--street free agents and other assorted flotsam and jetsam. That's not really a great option.  I'm glad BB took the risk and hopefully it works out. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Thank you!! A reasonable response from someone who actually watched him play. I'll have to watch him again. I've watched his stuff three times and what I keep seeing is a guy getting pushed around because physically he doesn't look like he's strong enough. If you saw it differently, maybe I'm wrong.

    To me he looked a whole lot like many of the other undersized guys we've tried in our secondary - the quicker, smaller type. He's listed as 6 feet, but man he doesn't look it to me (maybe he plays very low and squat). I just don't see how he's going to cover a tight end or play the run in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong...you're not the only one who likes his film, so I may be off on this guy. 
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    Oh so NOW your NOT saying that he is not going to be a good player.  I guess that means you MIGHT think that he COULD be a good player.  I guess that EVERY PLAYER picked in front of him is going to be better... After all that is what Mel Kiper and all the other draft media are saying.

    HERE IS A STATEMENT TEX.  TAVON WILSON WILL NOT BE THE WORST PLAYER PICKED IN THE FIRST 48.  I GUARANTEE IT.  ALL THE DRAFT MEDIA HAVE HIM RANKED BELOW THE FIRST 48 BUT I'LL BET YOU ANYTHING NONE WOULD LAY ANY MONEY ON HIM BEING THE WORST PLAYER IN THE FIRST 48 CHOSEN.

    AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT HE COULD BE HAD MUCH LOWER... CUS MEL KIPER TOLD YOU SO LOL...  And by the way just how do all of those GREAT players that we passed up in the middle of the second round fit into Bill Belichick's defensive system?  Exactly what is BB's defensive system.  What is the philosophy behind it.  Some things seem clear others do not.  Do You think you know exactly what he is trying to accomplish with each formation?  Do you know what the role of each player is in each formation and situation? What does he look for in a Defensive Lineman?  How big should he be?  How fast should he be?  How smart does he need to be?  Is he looking at 3-4 or 4-3 or is it important to be well versed in both or is it ok to be dominant in one but only average at the other? Does he look for past production or more for future potential?  Does he prefer D lineman from large programs or is he willing to go small school?  Does he need a good word from one of his "moles" or just the blessing of his scouts?  Does he consider chemistry with future teamates?  Does he prefer a lesser talent with good all around game or does he prefer a player who is great in 1 facet and figure that he can coach up his weaknesses.  How did the players around the draftee make him look (better or worse than he might look here as a Pat).  Does Mel Kiper Jr or anyone else from the draft media know the answers to any of these questions?

    DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT THE NFL DRAFT THAN BB.

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!  Buying a couple of $19.99 draft books at Wal Mart and watching a few highlights on Youtube does not make you or I EXPERTS on the draft.

    Here is another guarantee... I mean no disrepect by this... I really don't... Please believe me Tex I am not a jerk.  Just someone who is equally passionate but much more realistic, rational
    , and a tad more patient to judge.

    Trust me on this one.  EVERY NFL GM will forget more about the draft in the next hour than you or I or Mel Kiper Jr will ever know!
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Thank you for your excellent post. You make some good points...and I hope BB was even half as vigilant as you propose he might have been. But, isn't drafting a bit like gambling, where you play the odds? You base those odds on whether a player has prototypical size and speed, has shown leadership skills and high character, and whose body of work in college shows that he's elite at his respective position. Wilson seems to possess everything, except the body of work in college showing that he's an elite player. To me, that's a major concern. For that reason, I fear that, in taking Wilson, BB is hoping to convert all of his qualities, and coach him up. In other words, I fear that he's trying to manufacture a safety.      As I've stated previously, I have no problem with this, if Wilson were, say, a 5th or even a 4th round pick. But, the 48th overall player selected should be a finished product. I do not think it wise to ever draft just to fill one positional need.      I realize that the ats'  badly need a safety. But, I don't see the solution being had reaching for one...especially with such a hig pick. Do the names Guss Scott and Dexter Reid ring a bell? They were selected back to back (3rd and 4th rounds) by BB in the 2004 draft, the 95th and 113th player selected, respectively. How did that pan out?           Better to go with the best player available at one of a teams' several positions of need, than to target a particular position...and take a guy with good raw materials, in hopes of converting him into a solid player. If Wilson wasn't an elite player in college, what makes you think that he'll become successful in the NFL?
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Thanks Tex.  I think BB definitely felt Wilson was better than a lot of people think and better than the other options available at safety.  I understand BB hasn't always judged talent (especially at DB) accurately and Wilson could be a mistake.  But I do think BB was drafting for need at 48 and was okay doing this (1)  given what he got earlier in the draft and (2) knowing that the need was significant and not easily filled (remember we were playing Edelman and Slater at safety last year).  I don't think he wanted to risk losing his chance on Wilson--which suggests that BB didn't think all that highly of the other safeties available in the draft and was skeptical about his ability to find a reasonable veteran in free agency.  I think BB had something very specific in mind for his safety--namely he was looking for a guy who would make good reads, keep the plays in front of him, and generally stay close to the action.  I looked at a bunch of clips of safeties after the Wilson pick and that's one area where Wilson stands out.  He may not be a big play guy, but (when playing safetly, not corner) he keeps the action in front of him in a way that Taylor and Iloka (the two guys I think most thought were the top remaining safeties at 48) don't.  I think BB sees Wilson as (at a minimum) a James Sanders type (a guy we probably should have re-signed), but with some upside potential that may make him better.  We'll have to see.  







     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Yeah . . . maybe he'll have that same chip on his shoulder Brady has . . .
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         Let's hope so. I didn't like where he was picked...but I'd certainly not rooting for him to fail.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Thanks Tex.  I think BB definitely felt Wilson was better than a lot of people think and better than the other options available at safety.  I understand BB hasn't always judged talent (especially at DB) accurately and Wilson could be a mistake.  But I do think BB was drafting for need at 48 and was okay doing this (1)  given what he got earlier in the draft and (2) knowing that the need was significant and not easily filled (remember we were playing Edelman and Slater at safety last year).  I don't think he wanted to risk losing his chance on Wilson--which suggests that BB didn't think all that highly of the other safeties available in the draft and was skeptical about his ability to find a reasonable veteran in free agency.  I think BB had something very specific in mind for his safety--namely he was looking for a guy who would make good reads, keep the plays in front of him, and generally stay close to the action.  I looked at a bunch of clips of safeties after the Wilson pick and that's one area where Wilson stands out.  He may not be a big play guy, but (when playing safetly, not corner) he keeps the action in front of him in a way that Taylor and Iloka (the two guys I think most thought were the top remaining safeties at 48) don't.  I think BB sees Wilson as (at a minimum) a James Sanders type (a guy we probably should have re-signed), but with some upside potential that may make him better.  We'll have to see.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         If he's the next James Sanders, than he definately wasn't worthy of the 48th overall pick. Are you aware that Sanders, who signed a one year deal with Atlanta last year as an UFA, was only a reserve for them? They let him go at the end of the season. He recently signed another one year deal, this time with the Arizona Cardinals:  http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7779704/2012-nfl-free-agency-arizona-cardinals-agree-deal-james-sanders. He'll be a reserve for them, too.  
         
         Furthermore, as you may recall, Sanders was a late 4th round draft choice, the 133rd overall player taken, in the 2005 draft. Wilson has to turn out to be a much better player than Sanders, in order to justify his high draft status.   
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : I feel like this got lost in the shuffle...
    Posted by magicalhobo[/QUOTE]

         Come now...what do you expect to hear from his former coach? That he's a reach?? LOL!!!
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]Well his college coach sure does like him.  See below FOXBOROUGH, Mass -- The New England Patriots raised some eyebrows amongst draft experts and fans by selecting Illinois safety Tavon Wilson in the second round of the draft (48th overall), but not everyone was surprised by the team’s decision. “Not at all,” said Ron Zook, the former Illinois head coach who called on Wilson to start 39 of his 50 career games from 2008 to 2011. “I’ve been with him for four years -- he’s played corner, he’s played safety, and to me what happened is Coach Belichick and his staff, they just did their homework. They went out there and they found not only a great person, but a guy that’s going to come in and (play) for an awful long time in the National Football League.” [+] Enlarge AP Photo/Pat Lovell "He's played corner, he's played safety, and to me what happened is Coach Belichick and his staff, they just did their homework," says former Illinois head coach Ron Zook on New England's selection of Tavon Wilson. Zook, who worked with ESPN’s Jon Gruden and CBS Sports leading into the draft, believes that Wilson was the third-best available safety, behind only Alabama’s Mark Barron and Notre Dame’s Harrison Smith , who were first-round selections. Zook said Wilson’s versatility and ability to play cornerback or safety was due in part to his commitment to winning and doing what was best for the team. “I think one of the things that helped him is playing both positions. Personally I think he’s probably more of a safety,” Zook said. “...I think he’s a guy that can play there in the slot. I think everybody is always looking for a safety that can play man, and play in these multiple formations and so forth, can play man-to-man on that inside receiver guy, and he’s a guy that can do that.” The Patriots’ struggles in the secondary in 2011 are well-chronicled, and the team has worked to address the issue throughout the offseason with the free-agent additions of veterans Steve Gregory (safety) and Will Allen (cornerback), along with the selections of Wilson and former Nebraska cornerback Alfonzo Dennard (seventh round). But Zook doesn’t believe Wilson’s impact will be limited to just defense, as he lauded the 22-year-old’s ability to compete on special teams. “He’ll be on all the special teams," said Zook. "He’s one of those guys that will want to be on them, and you know one position that a lot of people don’t understand -- you have to learn how to play special teams,” he said. “A lot of times guys don’t play them until they get to the NFL. Well, Tavon is experienced in all phases, with the exception of extra point/field goal protection. He’s been on all the other phases. He was on the hands team, he was on kickoff return, kickoff, and he knows how to play special teams. And believe me, there’s a lot more to it than what people think. He’ll give you everything he’s got.” Naturally, Zook has no problem finding plenty to like about Wilson’s game, including a work ethic, toughness and tackling ability comparable to former Illinois standout Vontae Davis , the starting cornerback for the Miami Dolphins . He also acknowledges Wilson’s affinity for contact, noting, “He’s not a guy that’s ever hurt.” Zook is aware that some might be doubting the Patriots’ selection of Wilson, but not him. “I think one thing that people are going to see is that he’s a heck of a lot better player than what they might think,” he said. “Because they didn’t know a lot about him, there’s going to be a lot of question marks, but I promise you, he’s going to come in there and he’ll show people that he’s deserving of the position he was drafted.”
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

         What do you expect Zook to say...that Wilson was a monumental reach?? LOL!!!

         That said...I sincerely hope that Zook, BB, and you BB believers are absolutely right...and that this kid develops into a star, or, at least a solid, safety. I really hope that I'm proven wrong.   
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Oh so NOW your NOT saying that he is not going to be a good player.  I guess that means you MIGHT think that he COULD be a good player.  I guess that EVERY PLAYER picked in front of him is going to be better... After all that is what Mel Kiper and all the other draft media are saying. HERE IS A STATEMENT TEX.  TAVON WILSON WILL NOT BE THE WORST PLAYER PICKED IN THE FIRST 48.  I GUARANTEE IT .  ALL THE DRAFT MEDIA HAVE HIM RANKED BELOW THE FIRST 48 BUT I'LL BET YOU ANYTHING NONE WOULD LAY ANY MONEY ON HIM BEING THE WORST PLAYER IN THE FIRST 48 CHOSEN. AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT HE COULD BE HAD MUCH LOWER... CUS MEL KIPER TOLD YOU SO LOL...  And by the way just how do all of those GREAT  players that we passed up in the middle of the second round fit into Bill Belichick's defensive system?  Exactly what is BB's defensive system.  What is the philosophy behind it.  Some things seem clear others do not.  Do You think you know exactly what he is trying to accomplish with each formation?  Do you know what the role of each player is in each formation and situation? What does he look for in a Defensive Lineman?  How big should he be?  How fast should he be?  How smart does he need to be?  Is he looking at 3-4 or 4-3 or is it important to be well versed in both or is it ok to be dominant in one but only average at the other? Does he look for past production or more for future potential?  Does he prefer D lineman from large programs or is he willing to go small school?  Does he need a good word from one of his "moles" or just the blessing of his scouts?  Does he consider chemistry with future teamates?  Does he prefer a lesser talent with good all around game or does he prefer a player who is great in 1 facet and figure that he can coach up his weaknesses.  How did the players around the draftee make him look (better or worse than he might look here as a Pat).  Does Mel Kiper Jr or anyone else from the draft media  know the answers to any of these questions? DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT THE NFL DRAFT THAN BB. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!  Buying a couple of $19.99 draft books at Wal Mart and watching a few highlights on Youtube does not make you or I EXPERTS on the draft. Here is another guarantee... I mean no disrepect by this... I really don't... Please believe me Tex I am not a jerk.  Just someone who is equally passionate but much more realistic, rational , and a tad more patient to judge. Trust me on this one.   EVERY NFL GM will forget more about the draft in the next hour than you or I or Mel Kiper Jr will ever know!
    Posted by mar10[/QUOTE]

         Obviously, you haven't read Kipers' Draft Report, OurLads Guide to the 2012 Draft, or the ProFootball Weekly 2012 Draft Preview. If you had, you would know that they're not sold at WalMart, or any other store. You have to order them online. Who are you to judge the quality of these publications, when he haven't even read them?

         For the last time, my complaint about Wilson centers upon WHERE HE WAS DRAFTED. If he was a 5th round pick, I wouldn't have a problem with BB selecting him. 

         Finally, as much as I respect and admire BB for what he has accomplished in football, he is not infallible, and is subject to criticism. Whether you like hearing it or not, his track record for selecting players in the draft, from 2006-10, is not very good. What has saved him, and saved the team, is that he is the greatest head coach of all-time. As such, he can still win, even though he may not have the best players. Of course, it also helps to have perhaps the greatest QB of all-time, running his offense.         
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      If he's the next James Sanders, than he definately wasn't worthy of the 48th overall pick. Are you aware that Sanders, who signed a one year deal with Atlanta last year as an UFA, was only a reserve for them? They let him go at the end of the season. He recently signed another one year deal, this time with the Arizona Cardinals:   http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7779704/2012-nfl-free-agency-arizona-cardinals-agree-deal-james-sanders . He'll be a reserve for them, too.              Furthermore, as you may recall, Sanders was a late 4th round draft choice, the 133rd overall player taken, in the 2005 draft. Wilson has to turn out to be a much better player than Sanders, in order to justify his high draft status.   
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    I said "at a minimum"--I suspect BB is hoping for more than that too.  Also, Tex, mid second round picks are hardly a sure thing.  It's instructive to go back and look at picks 45-55 over the past ten years and see what happened to those guys. There's a wide range of outcomes.  Sure, with the 48th pick you're hoping for a solid starter, but that's not what always happen.  

     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Come now...what do you expect to hear from his former coach? That he's a reach?? LOL!!!
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    IDK, he convinced BB, who may or may not have the best draft record in the NFL but unequivocally has the best record (therefore the best complete body of work).   Sooooo. maybe a let's just wait and see is warranted before we condemn him to he11 for his stupidity.Undecided
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : Thank you!! A reasonable response from someone who actually watched him play. I'll have to watch him again. I've watched his stuff three times and what I keep seeing is a guy getting pushed around because physically he doesn't look like he's strong enough. If you saw it differently, maybe I'm wrong. To me he looked a whole lot like many of the other undersized guys we've tried in our secondary - the quicker, smaller type. He's listed as 6 feet, but man he doesn't look it to me (maybe he plays very low and squat). I just don't see how he's going to cover a tight end or play the run in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong...you're not the only one who likes his film, so I may be off on this guy. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    mthurl . .  watch some of the other safeties that were available at 48 too.  Watching the other guys really gave me a better perspective on Wilson.  George Iloka and Brandon Taylor were two guys widely predicted to be among the top five safeties . . . there's film on both and neither really looks more impressive to me than Wilson.  Taylor whiffs a lot and takes some bad angles.  Iloka looks very tentative on a lot of plays, almost like he's shying away from the action.  Wilson at least seems to seek out contact.  He may not make a play all the time, but he seems to be always in the mix.  I have a feeling that's what BB liked. 

    Again . . . I'm not saying Wilson will pan out . . . all I'm saying is that I think I see why BB may have liked him better than some of the other safeties out there. It will be interesting to see how it works out.  In my opinion, this was a need pick more than a value pick . . . but the need is pressing and ignoring value for need makes sense in some situations. 
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : IDK, he convinced BB, who may or may not have the best draft record in the NFL but unequivocally has the best record (therefore the best complete body of work).   Sooooo. maybe a let's just wait and see is warranted before we condemn him to he11 for his stupidity.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

         I don't think Zook convinced BB. My guess is that BB convinced himself...based on seeing the raw materials in Wilson's game. As I've previously stated, my fear is that BB's ego is getting in the way...and that he feels he can manufacture a good safety out of Wilson.
     
        
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : I said "at a minimum"--I suspect BB is hoping for more than that too.  Also, Tex, mid second round picks are hardly a sure thing.  It's instructive to go back and look at picks 45-55 over the past ten years and see what happened to those guys. There's a wide range of outcomes.  Sure, with the 48th pick you're hoping for a solid starter, but that's not what always happen.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         All the more reason why the Pats' shouldn't be gambling on someone who doesn't have much of a track record in college.
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    Thank you. Well said!

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : +1 this post should be linked to the front page.
    Posted by mnp3a[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]my fear is that BB's ego is getting in the way...and that he feels he can manufacture a good safety out of Wilson.       
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    might it be *your* ego getting in the way here?

    why can't you accept that maybe, jeez!! MAYBE:
    · there was no mediocre trade available to move back a few spots
    · other teams might have liked the kid

    there **is** evidence for both assertions
    there is NO evidence that he would have been available in the 5th
    **and**
    Pats didnt have a pick after the 2d!!


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : I said "at a minimum"--I suspect BB is hoping for more than that too.  Also, Tex, mid second round picks are hardly a sure thing.  It's instructive to go back and look at picks 45-55 over the past ten years and see what happened to those guys. There's a wide range of outcomes.  Sure, with the 48th pick you're hoping for a solid starter, but that's not what always happen.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

         Upon posting in the thread entitled, "Just a Quick Question", it dawned upon me why BB decided to select FS Tavon Wilson at #48. The author of that thread asked the simple question, "Who do you think BB should have taken at #48?" This was my response:

         At #48, I would have traded down. If there are no takers, or the offers were not good enough, BB should have drafted either DT Jerel Worthy, or DT/DE Kendall Reyes, due to his versatility. Of the two, I'd lean towards Worthy, who played against better competition. 

         At #62, I would attempt to trade down. If that were impossible, I'd address the secondary...either CB Trumaine Johnson, Brandon Hardin, or even consider  Wilson, at this point. 


         Looking at it from this perspective, I can better understand why BB took Wilson at #48. When you look at the remaining candidates at FS from #48 on,  there's little available. Brandon Taylor is a SS. But, if the Pats took Hardin, Wilson or Johnson at #62, they would not have been able to select Jake Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert, in the later rounds.

          Though I still see Wilson as a reach...BB obviously saw FS to be a major hole in the Pats' "D". If he thought that Wilson was the next best available FS by far, after Barron and Harrison Smith...this, in conjunction with his dearth of draft choices, makes his Wilson decision at #48 appear to be much more sensible.
         If he waits to take Wilson at #62, he'd have lost out of Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert. If he traded down with GB as he did, and took Bequette at #90, he'd be gambling that Wilson would be around late in round 5...and again he would lose out on Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert.  
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report : might it be *your* ego getting in the way here? why can't you accept that maybe, jeez!! MAYBE: · there was no mediocre trade available to move back a few spots · other teams might have liked the kid there **is** evidence for both assertions there is NO evidence that he would have been available in the 5th **and** Pats didnt have a pick after the 2d!!
    Posted by mnp3a[/QUOTE]

    +1
     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      All the more reason why the Pats' shouldn't be gambling on someone who doesn't have much of a track record in college.
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]


    Belichick takes gambles in mid and low rounds all the time . . . he's always trying to find the overlooked guy who has the potential to be better than most of the other guys that teams are targeting in a particular round.  Sometimes he strikes out, but sometimes he hits a home run. 

    I disagree that Wilson didn't have a track record.  The guy was a four down player and a three-year starter on a team with a major program in one of the best NCAA conferences.  As Belichick said there was tons of film on Wilson--playing multiple positions, including corner, safety, linebacker, and gunner.  For that reason alone this is very different from some of BB's other gambles where he took small school guys or injured guys.  He had a very good look at the body of Wilson's work.  Even if he made the wrong decision, he certainly didn't make it without having lots and lots of evidence to base it on.  

     


     
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    Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report

    In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tavon Wilson: My Scouting Report :      Upon posting in the thread entitled, "Just a Quick Question", it dawned upon me why BB decided to select FS Tavon Wilson at #48. The author of that thread asked the simple question, "Who do you think BB should have taken at #48?" This was my response:      At #48, I would have traded down. If there are no takers, or the offers were not good enough, BB should have drafted either DT Jerel Worthy, or DT/DE Kendall Reyes, due to his versatility. Of the two, I'd lean towards Worthy, who played against better competition.       At #62, I would attempt to trade down. If that were impossible, I'd address the secondary...either CB Trumaine Johnson, Brandon Hardin, or even consider  Wilson, at this point.       Looking at it from this perspective, I can better understand why BB took Wilson at #48. When you look at the remaining candidates at FS from #48 on,  there's little available. Brandon Taylor is a SS. But, if the Pats took Hardin, Wilson or Johnson at #62, they would not have been able to select Jake Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert, in the later rounds .       Though I still see Wilson as a reach...BB obviously saw FS to be a major hole in the Pats' "D". If he thought that Wilson was the next best available FS by far, after Barron and Harrison Smith...this, in conjunction with his dearth of draft choices, makes his Wilson decision at #48 appear to be much more sensible.      If he waits to take Wilson at #62, he'd have lost out of Bequette, Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert. If he traded down with GB as he did, and took Bequette at #90, he'd be gambling that Wilson would be around late in round 5...and again he would lose out on Ebner, Dennard, and Ebert.  
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    This makes sense to me Tex.  Also, even assuming the DTs were the best talent available, BB has a lot of DTs on the roster already.  He won't have a problem filling the DT spot with reasonable players.  Safety, however, was a disaster for us last year.  Remember, we had to play guys like Edelman and Slater at safety in multiple games.  This is a position of huge need.  It's quite possible that BB liked Wilson not because he thinks Wilson has the long-term potential to be a great player, but only because he knows Wilson has a lot of experience and intelligence so he is the most likely safety candidate to be able to step in and play at a reasonably good level right away in his first year.  It's quite possible that BB drafted Wilson at 48 to solve a pressing short-term need for a body who could step into the safety position and play at a decent level right away.  Using pick 48 for a stop-gap measure maybe isn't ideal, but BB has to weigh value against the need to field a viable team on Sept 9.  

     



     

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