TB the #'s

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    TB the #'s

    For those who question the GOAT, a little perspective from those in the know.

    Numbers are down, but respect is up for Tom Brady

     

    Fri, 11/15/2013 - 9:00am      3  Email  

    FOXBORO -- Tom Brady is playing a lot better than you think -- or at least better than most of the numbers show.

    Tom Brady has completed just 57 percent of his passes, but he has the Patriots at 7-2 heading into a Monday night game against the Panthers. (AP)

    Tom Brady has completed just 57 percent of his passes, but he has the Patriots at 7-2 heading into a Monday night game against the Panthers. (AP)

    Take it from the best in the game, past and present. Despite some of the statistical struggles, he still commands respect from almost anyone who has spent time under center.

     

    Even the most ardent Brady backer would have to concede that he's missed a ton of throws over the first nine games of the season. He's completing just 57 percent of his passes -- by way of comparison, he's never finished a season with a completion rate lower than 60 percent. He's on pace for double-digit picks for just the third time since 2007. His passer rating of 82.7 through nine games trails luminaries like Jake Locker and Andy Dalton. His streak of games with a touchdown pass was snapped at 52 in a Week 5 loss to the Bengals. He's not in the top 10 in any major passing category. He’s had three games in which he’s thrown for less than 190 yards.

    But you talk to guys who have played the position, and they say that Brady is as good as he's ever been. Sharper. More focused. And more able to make something out of nothing that any other quarterback on the planet. That group includes Panthers quarterback Cam Newton, who will be going up against Brady and the Patriots for the first time as a professional on Monday night.

    "I have the utmost respect for Tom," Newton said Wednesday. "With me knowing him personally with our relationship with Under Armour and so many other different things, he's great already."

    So where's the disconnect? While those on the outside dissect Brady's numbers and see his struggles, those who play and have played the position take a look at what he's had to work with -- and the options he was stripped of this past offseason -- and see someone making the best of an occasionally difficult situation.

    Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has a certain level of empathy for Brady and what he's gone through in 2013, and can speak to just how difficult it is to keep posting wins. A two-time Super Bowl champion, the Pittsburgh quarterback has lost several pieces of his offensive core over the last few seasons. This year, he's feeling the effects -- dating back to the end of the 2012 season, the Steelers are 5-11 in their last 16 games.

    "To me, he's the best quarterback in the league, and he's done it for a long time," Roethlisberger said prior to the Patriots-Steelers game earlier this month -- a game in which Brady threw for 432 yards and four touchdowns. "That's no disrespect to some of these other guys that are doing some amazing things in the NFL right now. But to me, it's about wins and championships -- and he's got more championships than anybody.

    "For the first how many weeks of the season he was playing with receivers that nobody had ever really heard of, so you've got to give him credit for getting his team to [7-2]," Roethlisberger added. "He's got great vision, he's got big arm strength, a great understanding of offense and defense."

    Some of Brady's problems this year can be pinned on the cast of new receivers around him, as well as the fact that the offensive line has had some struggles. More than most offenses, the success of the New England passing attack is predicated on timing. It's cause and effect -- if one aspect of execution is even off in the slightest, it creates difficulties for the rest of the game plan.

    "In my opinion, [it’s] by far the most impressive performance in any season that Tom has had," Brett Favre said on the NFL Network earlier this season. "I know the numbers are not Tom Brady-like numbers. But based on the situation, the cast around him, the fact he is more of a player-coach, which is always tough -- you’re teaching in the huddle, at the line, getting guys lined up. It is a testament to how good he really is.” 

    Said former MVP and current CBS analyst Rich Gannon: "When you take away Wes Welker and Brandon Lloyd, and obviously [Rob] Gronkowski, the [Aaron] Hernandez situation, Danny Woodhead -- who does that to a quarterback like Tom Brady? They have a bunch of young players that are playing and playing well. He’s clearly the commander in chief. He’s the glue that keeps it all together. And that is why the guy is so special."

    In truth, when Brady's been the one holding the Lombardi Trophy at the end of the year, he hasn't had particularly overwhelming numbers. In 2003 and 2004, he posted career lows in completion percentage (60.2 and 60.8, respectively). His total passing yards those two seasons were in the bottom half of his career totals. (He had 3,692 passing yards in 2004 and 3,620 in 2003. In contrast, he threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.) In contrast, from 2010 to 2012, he had a nearly 5-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio (108-24), 13,962 passing yards and a completion rate of 65 percent … and no Super Bowl titles.

    In that same vein, it's worth mentioning that, of the last 10 starting quarterbacks to win a Super Bowl, only four of them were in the top five in passer rating over the course of the regular season in the year they took home the title. While Drew Brees and Peyton Manning led the league when they captured their only rings, there were others like Joe Flacco (12th at 87.7), Ben Roethlisberger (24th at 80.1 in 2008) and Eli Manning (25th at 73.9 in 2007) who were way down the list.

    Ultimately, maybe the other quarterbacks know what we don't -- while passer rating, total yards and touchdowns look good when it comes to measuring stat lines, the only number that really matters at the end of the day is the number of Super Bowl rings.

    More Patriots
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    For those who question the GOAT, a little perspective from those in the know.

    Numbers are down, but respect is up for Tom Brady

     

    Fri, 11/15/2013 - 9:00am      3  Email  

    FOXBORO -- Tom Brady is playing a lot better than you think -- or at least better than most of the numbers show.

    Tom Brady has completed just 57 percent of his passes, but he has the Patriots at 7-2 heading into a Monday night game against the Panthers. (AP)

    Tom Brady has completed just 57 percent of his passes, but he has the Patriots at 7-2 heading into a Monday night game against the Panthers. (AP)

    Take it from the best in the game, past and present. Despite some of the statistical struggles, he still commands respect from almost anyone who has spent time under center.

     

    Even the most ardent Brady backer would have to concede that he's missed a ton of throws over the first nine games of the season. He's completing just 57 percent of his passes -- by way of comparison, he's never finished a season with a completion rate lower than 60 percent. He's on pace for double-digit picks for just the third time since 2007. His passer rating of 82.7 through nine games trails luminaries like Jake Locker and Andy Dalton. His streak of games with a touchdown pass was snapped at 52 in a Week 5 loss to the Bengals. He's not in the top 10 in any major passing category. He’s had three games in which he’s thrown for less than 190 yards.

    But you talk to guys who have played the position, and they say that Brady is as good as he's ever been. Sharper. More focused. And more able to make something out of nothing that any other quarterback on the planet. That group includes Panthers quarterback Cam Newton, who will be going up against Brady and the Patriots for the first time as a professional on Monday night.

    "I have the utmost respect for Tom," Newton said Wednesday. "With me knowing him personally with our relationship with Under Armour and so many other different things, he's great already."

    So where's the disconnect? While those on the outside dissect Brady's numbers and see his struggles, those who play and have played the position take a look at what he's had to work with -- and the options he was stripped of this past offseason -- and see someone making the best of an occasionally difficult situation.

    Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has a certain level of empathy for Brady and what he's gone through in 2013, and can speak to just how difficult it is to keep posting wins. A two-time Super Bowl champion, the Pittsburgh quarterback has lost several pieces of his offensive core over the last few seasons. This year, he's feeling the effects -- dating back to the end of the 2012 season, the Steelers are 5-11 in their last 16 games.

    "To me, he's the best quarterback in the league, and he's done it for a long time," Roethlisberger said prior to the Patriots-Steelers game earlier this month -- a game in which Brady threw for 432 yards and four touchdowns. "That's no disrespect to some of these other guys that are doing some amazing things in the NFL right now. But to me, it's about wins and championships -- and he's got more championships than anybody.

    "For the first how many weeks of the season he was playing with receivers that nobody had ever really heard of, so you've got to give him credit for getting his team to [7-2]," Roethlisberger added. "He's got great vision, he's got big arm strength, a great understanding of offense and defense."

    Some of Brady's problems this year can be pinned on the cast of new receivers around him, as well as the fact that the offensive line has had some struggles. More than most offenses, the success of the New England passing attack is predicated on timing. It's cause and effect -- if one aspect of execution is even off in the slightest, it creates difficulties for the rest of the game plan.

    "In my opinion, [it’s] by far the most impressive performance in any season that Tom has had," Brett Favre said on the NFL Network earlier this season. "I know the numbers are not Tom Brady-like numbers. But based on the situation, the cast around him, the fact he is more of a player-coach, which is always tough -- you’re teaching in the huddle, at the line, getting guys lined up. It is a testament to how good he really is.” 

    Said former MVP and current CBS analyst Rich Gannon: "When you take away Wes Welker and Brandon Lloyd, and obviously [Rob] Gronkowski, the [Aaron] Hernandez situation, Danny Woodhead -- who does that to a quarterback like Tom Brady? They have a bunch of young players that are playing and playing well. He’s clearly the commander in chief. He’s the glue that keeps it all together. And that is why the guy is so special."

    In truth, when Brady's been the one holding the Lombardi Trophy at the end of the year, he hasn't had particularly overwhelming numbers. In 2003 and 2004, he posted career lows in completion percentage (60.2 and 60.8, respectively). His total passing yards those two seasons were in the bottom half of his career totals. (He had 3,692 passing yards in 2004 and 3,620 in 2003. In contrast, he threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.) In contrast, from 2010 to 2012, he had a nearly 5-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio (108-24), 13,962 passing yards and a completion rate of 65 percent … and no Super Bowl titles.

    In that same vein, it's worth mentioning that, of the last 10 starting quarterbacks to win a Super Bowl, only four of them were in the top five in passer rating over the course of the regular season in the year they took home the title. While Drew Brees and Peyton Manning led the league when they captured their only rings, there were others like Joe Flacco (12th at 87.7), Ben Roethlisberger (24th at 80.1 in 2008) and Eli Manning (25th at 73.9 in 2007) who were way down the list.

    Ultimately, maybe the other quarterbacks know what we don't -- while passer rating, total yards and touchdowns look good when it comes to measuring stat lines, the only number that really matters at the end of the day is the number of Super Bowl rings.

    More Patriots

    [/QUOTE]


    I have said it before - this will be Brady's finest season as a leader of men in a battle. I think the Panthers may soon find out for themselves what he is capable of. He has a good running attack this year and a much better defense, than he has had for the past several years. As this receiving corps gains more familiarity with him, they will get better and better. The real season begins now and most injured guys will be back this week or next (those that can return this season), except maybe Gregory.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    Good article Pezz, thanks for posting.

    Who in their right mind would question one of the greatest QB's of all time?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    His greatness is seen by most, questioned by the stupid few.

    The guy is just plain awesome...yet again.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    For those who question the GOAT, a little perspective from those in the know.

    Numbers are down, but respect is up for Tom Brady

     

    Fri, 11/15/2013 - 9:00am      3  Email  

    FOXBORO -- Tom Brady is playing a lot better than you think -- or at least better than most of the numbers show.

    Tom Brady has completed just 57 percent of his passes, but he has the Patriots at 7-2 heading into a Monday night game against the Panthers. (AP)

    Tom Brady has completed just 57 percent of his passes, but he has the Patriots at 7-2 heading into a Monday night game against the Panthers. (AP)

    Take it from the best in the game, past and present. Despite some of the statistical struggles, he still commands respect from almost anyone who has spent time under center.

     

    Even the most ardent Brady backer would have to concede that he's missed a ton of throws over the first nine games of the season. He's completing just 57 percent of his passes -- by way of comparison, he's never finished a season with a completion rate lower than 60 percent. He's on pace for double-digit picks for just the third time since 2007. His passer rating of 82.7 through nine games trails luminaries like Jake Locker and Andy Dalton. His streak of games with a touchdown pass was snapped at 52 in a Week 5 loss to the Bengals. He's not in the top 10 in any major passing category. He’s had three games in which he’s thrown for less than 190 yards.

    But you talk to guys who have played the position, and they say that Brady is as good as he's ever been. Sharper. More focused. And more able to make something out of nothing that any other quarterback on the planet. That group includes Panthers quarterback Cam Newton, who will be going up against Brady and the Patriots for the first time as a professional on Monday night.

    "I have the utmost respect for Tom," Newton said Wednesday. "With me knowing him personally with our relationship with Under Armour and so many other different things, he's great already."

    So where's the disconnect? While those on the outside dissect Brady's numbers and see his struggles, those who play and have played the position take a look at what he's had to work with -- and the options he was stripped of this past offseason -- and see someone making the best of an occasionally difficult situation.

    Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has a certain level of empathy for Brady and what he's gone through in 2013, and can speak to just how difficult it is to keep posting wins. A two-time Super Bowl champion, the Pittsburgh quarterback has lost several pieces of his offensive core over the last few seasons. This year, he's feeling the effects -- dating back to the end of the 2012 season, the Steelers are 5-11 in their last 16 games.

    "To me, he's the best quarterback in the league, and he's done it for a long time," Roethlisberger said prior to the Patriots-Steelers game earlier this month -- a game in which Brady threw for 432 yards and four touchdowns. "That's no disrespect to some of these other guys that are doing some amazing things in the NFL right now. But to me, it's about wins and championships -- and he's got more championships than anybody.

    "For the first how many weeks of the season he was playing with receivers that nobody had ever really heard of, so you've got to give him credit for getting his team to [7-2]," Roethlisberger added. "He's got great vision, he's got big arm strength, a great understanding of offense and defense."

    Some of Brady's problems this year can be pinned on the cast of new receivers around him, as well as the fact that the offensive line has had some struggles. More than most offenses, the success of the New England passing attack is predicated on timing. It's cause and effect -- if one aspect of execution is even off in the slightest, it creates difficulties for the rest of the game plan.

    "In my opinion, [it’s] by far the most impressive performance in any season that Tom has had," Brett Favre said on the NFL Network earlier this season. "I know the numbers are not Tom Brady-like numbers. But based on the situation, the cast around him, the fact he is more of a player-coach, which is always tough -- you’re teaching in the huddle, at the line, getting guys lined up. It is a testament to how good he really is.” 

    Said former MVP and current CBS analyst Rich Gannon: "When you take away Wes Welker and Brandon Lloyd, and obviously [Rob] Gronkowski, the [Aaron] Hernandez situation, Danny Woodhead -- who does that to a quarterback like Tom Brady? They have a bunch of young players that are playing and playing well. He’s clearly the commander in chief. He’s the glue that keeps it all together. And that is why the guy is so special."

    In truth, when Brady's been the one holding the Lombardi Trophy at the end of the year, he hasn't had particularly overwhelming numbers. In 2003 and 2004, he posted career lows in completion percentage (60.2 and 60.8, respectively). His total passing yards those two seasons were in the bottom half of his career totals. (He had 3,692 passing yards in 2004 and 3,620 in 2003. In contrast, he threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.) In contrast, from 2010 to 2012, he had a nearly 5-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio (108-24), 13,962 passing yards and a completion rate of 65 percent … and no Super Bowl titles.

    In that same vein, it's worth mentioning that, of the last 10 starting quarterbacks to win a Super Bowl, only four of them were in the top five in passer rating over the course of the regular season in the year they took home the title. While Drew Brees and Peyton Manning led the league when they captured their only rings, there were others like Joe Flacco (12th at 87.7), Ben Roethlisberger (24th at 80.1 in 2008) and Eli Manning (25th at 73.9 in 2007) who were way down the list.

    Ultimately, maybe the other quarterbacks know what we don't -- while passer rating, total yards and touchdowns look good when it comes to measuring stat lines, the only number that really matters at the end of the day is the number of Super Bowl rings.

    More Patriots

    [/QUOTE]


    I have said it before - this will be Brady's finest season as a leader of men in a battle. I think the Panthers may soon find out for themselves what he is capable of. He has a good running attack this year and a much better defense, than he has had for the past several years. As this receiving corps gains more familiarity with him, they will get better and better. The real season begins now and most injured guys will be back this week or next (those that can return this season), except maybe Gregory.

    [/QUOTE]


    if your the first follow up post....do you need to quote it?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good article Pezz, thanks for posting.

    Who in their right mind would question one of the greatest QB's of all time?

    [/QUOTE]

    LMAO... this ought to spark a spirited reponse from a certain poster.

    Brady needs just 1 more SB to solidify the GOAT title.

    His resume already has him there IMHO but to the outsider another SB would have to make even the biggest brady detractor take pause.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    [/QUOTE]

    if your the first follow up post....do you need to quote it?

    [/QUOTE]

    My bad. Should have deleted the original post.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:


    if your the first follow up post....do you need to quote it?



    If you reply to a reply that quotes the entire article, do you need to quote the entire article as well?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    Whats he done for me lately in playoffs????....Been almost 10 years since last ring......

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    Is everyone waiting for "you know who" ?....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whats he done for me lately in playoffs????....Been almost 10 years since last ring......

    [/QUOTE]

    What's the defense done for us lately in the playoffs?  It is a team game.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whats he done for me lately in playoffs????....Been almost 10 years since last ring......

    [/QUOTE]


    Maybe you be happier as a fan of the Jets, who have not won in almost 50 years? Or the Lions who have never won it? 6 teams have won the Super Bowl since the Pats last....that mean they have won it more recently then 25 other teams...cry me a river.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    There are indeed fans/people/pundits who questioned Brady's performance this year - and one game of good offense doesn't really dispel questions about the offensive woes this year. 

    To say that the offensive problems were solely Brady's fault is as disingenuous as saying that the woes were none of Brady's fault.  Methinks that the truth is that there were numerous factors, including but not exclusive of: rookie WRs, new veteran WRs, loss of AH forevever, injury of Gronk.

    Finally, even if Brady is a future HOF QB - tell me a good reason why he shouldn't be questioned or be held accountable for part of the offensive woes?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: TB the #'s


    2006 imo is still Brady's best year.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    I'll question it.  Brady's accuracy has been off.  Way off.  Then the old Tom showed up for the game against the Steelers.  Ball was on the money and showed plenty of zip.  This hasn't been true prior.  The defense has been winning the games and not TB.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to anonymis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are indeed fans/people/pundits who questioned Brady's performance this year - and one game of good offense doesn't really dispel questions about the offensive woes this year. 

    To say that the offensive problems were solely Brady's fault is as disingenuous as saying that the woes were none of Brady's fault.  Methinks that the truth is that there were numerous factors, including but not exclusive of: rookie WRs, new veteran WRs, loss of AH forevever, injury of Gronk.

    Finally, even if Brady is a future HOF QB - tell me a good reason why he shouldn't be questioned or be held accountable for part of the offensive woes?

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think it's about questioning or not. 

    How excellent should anyone be able ot look when they get the carpet pulled out from underneath them.

    It's difficult to be sharp when everything around you is off because the entirety of the offensive skill position roster is new. 

    So, no... it's not about questioning Tom, or that he is above criticism. I'd just have more realisitc expectations about what one player can do. 

    If NE makes it deep in the playoffs at least ... this should go down as one of his best seasons. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    2006 imo is still Brady's best year.

    [/QUOTE]

    2013 is not over yet.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to anonymis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are indeed fans/people/pundits who questioned Brady's performance this year - and one game of good offense doesn't really dispel questions about the offensive woes this year. 

    To say that the offensive problems were solely Brady's fault is as disingenuous as saying that the woes were none of Brady's fault.  Methinks that the truth is that there were numerous factors, including but not exclusive of: rookie WRs, new veteran WRs, loss of AH forevever, injury of Gronk.

    Finally, even if Brady is a future HOF QB - tell me a good reason why he shouldn't be questioned or be held accountable for part of the offensive woes?

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think it's about questioning or not. 

    How excellent should anyone be able ot look when they get the carpet pulled out from underneath them.

    It's difficult to be sharp when everything around you is off because the entirety of the offensive skill position roster is new. 

    So, no... it's not about questioning Tom, or that he is above criticism. I'd just have more realisitc expectations about what one player can do. 

    If NE makes it deep in the playoffs at least ... this should go down as one of his best seasons. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I believed expectations to be true.  With a new cast I think most of us here knew that there would be a learning curve of sorts.  But there are folks here who think the offensive woes have nothing to do with TB and his rough start.  I didn't think he was throwing the ball crisply nor accurately.  And by accurately I mean he was missing by a group.  Then the Pittsburgh game happened.  That ball snapped on every pass he made.

    If they make the playoffs I don't know if I would go that far.  It would be one of his more interesting seasons that's for sure.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    Admitting that Brady wasn't as sharp as he usually is isn't an attack on Brady's legacy, it's just stating a fact.

    Against the Steelers, specifically the second half of the game, was when Brady has looked like Brady the most this season. He has struggled this season, no big deal.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: TB the #'s

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Admitting that Brady wasn't as sharp as he usually is isn't an attack on Brady's legacy, it's just stating a fact.

    Against the Steelers, specifically the second half of the game, was when Brady has looked like Brady the most this season. He has struggled this season, no big deal.

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly, just because he wasnt stellar earlier in the season doesnt mean he can't capture the magic down the stretch.

     
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