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TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Thanks Pat and Pro for opening my homerville eyes to the real state of affairs with these guys. Its just too bad coach thought the TE group was 100 million dollar type talent. 

    RESPONSE: What's this? A Homer criticising BB for spending big money to lock up Gronk and Hernandez?? As I recall, everybody here was on board with that decision. In fact, many of the heroic Homers were referring to it as yet another stroke of BB genius. But now that both players have been bitten by the injury bug, BB made a huge mistake?? LOL!!!   

        

     

     


    That was called sarcasm big fella. 



    Yeah, right...LOL!!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to MelWitt's comment:

     

    One of the reasons TB has gotten a pair of "dancing feet" the last few years is the lack of suitable blocking back since Faulk's demise...

     



    Tom Brady having "dancing feet" is BS created by Ryan Clark, who, frankly has been owned by TB for the better part of a decade.

     

    I'll let another decent QB make my argument for me...

    Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers said regarding pocket presence Brady "is the best by far" among current NFL quarterbacks.

    "It's not even close," Rodgers told ESPN Radio.

    We have enough depth to allow Gronk the time he needs to heal, Hernandez will be ready, Fells and or Sudfield will excel as a third tight end.  Ballard was good enough to be the starting tightend  for a Super Bowl winning team.  We have a 6'4" 263 pound fullback named Michael Huey, we have two 6'8" towers at tackle who have All Pro ability.  

    This is the greatest collection of blocking Tom Brady has ever had. No disrespect to Matt Light who was an all pro guard, but was playing out of position at tackle but he couldn't overpower power rushers the way Solder and Vollmer can.

    I don't see the negative, unless a colossal breakdown occurs, I'd say tightend might be be our smallest concern.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to MelWitt's comment:

     

    One of the reasons TB has gotten a pair of "dancing feet" the last few years is the lack of suitable blocking back since Faulk's demise...

     



    Tom Brady having "dancing feet" is BS created by Ryan Clark, who, frankly has been owned by TB for the better part of a decade.

     

    I'll let another decent QB make my argument for me...

    Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers said regarding pocket presence Brady "is the best by far" among current NFL quarterbacks.

    "It's not even close," Rodgers told ESPN Radio.

    We have enough depth to allow Gronk the time he needs to heal, Hernandez will be ready, Fells and or Sudfield will excel as a third tight end.  Ballard was good enough to be the starting tightend  for a Super Bowl winning team.  We have a 6'4" 263 pound fullback named Michael Huey, we have two 6'8" towers at tackle who have All Pro ability.  

    This is the greatest collection of blocking Tom Brady has ever had. No disrespect to Matt Light who was an all pro guard, but was playing out of position at tackle but he couldn't overpower power rushers the way Solder and Vollmer can.

    I don't see the negative, unless a colossal breakdown occurs, I'd say tightend might be be our smallest concern.

     



    Completely agree. 32 teams would want a guy like Jake Ballard as a Starter/back up, let alone a 3rd/4rth stringer like we have him. Even if we PUP Gronk the 2TE set will still be used often. It is a strength and with Gronk on the field it is the best TE unit in the league, perhaps ever. Blocking isn't a problem either.

    The O-line is either the strongest positional group of the team, or second to TE.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    I get the point that we have some injuries right now. Of course it is early JUNE. I get that we have had injury issues the last two post seasons - Gronk that is.... But he is expected to be ready early enough and if he is on the pup he will have healthier prospects for late in the season.

    Bottom line, unless things really do fall apart they have as much or more to worry about at QB. Brady is often on the injury list isn't he? ANd if he falls we got an untested guy behind him.

    TE is a strength. Period.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    Yeah, portfolio the TE position will hold up fine, a Gronk recovery will make it extraordinary talented.

    I'd like to ask wozzy a question. In hindsight, do you think the Pats should have gone all out for Elvis Domerville? He was available for a short time, at least for an offering. I realize that he is a pass rusher and lacks a bit against the run, on the short side, like Freeney but younger. Sorry to see Welker go but for that money, I think, would have got Domerville here. Whaddya think? Or anyone? Would you feel better having Elvis wearing the Flying Elvis?

    Cheers to all ....

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to palookaski's comment:

    I'd like to ask wozzy a question. In hindsight, do you think the Pats should have gone all out for Elvis Domerville? He was available for a short time, at least for an offering. I realize that he is a pass rusher and lacks a bit against the run, on the short side, like Freeney but younger. Sorry to see Welker go but for that money, I think, would have got Domerville here. Whaddya think? Or anyone? Would you feel better having Elvis wearing the Flying Elvis? 

     

    It might have been nice to acquire Dumervil but our sack woes haven't been because we lacked edge rush talent, we were missing the three 1st round talent defensive tackles across the front, it's why we could get no pressure up the middle, it's why our talented edge rushers could not break free from offensive tackles.  

    We'll apply a lot more pressure this season assuming Wilfork, Kelly and Armstead stay healthy and the defense will look much different.  In short we have all the edge rushers we need, no need to over pay Elvis...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to palookaski's comment:

     

    Yeah, portfolio the TE position will hold up fine, a Gronk recovery will make it extraordinary talented.

    I'd like to ask wozzy a question. In hindsight, do you think the Pats should have gone all out for Elvis Domerville? He was available for a short time, at least for an offering. I realize that he is a pass rusher and lacks a bit against the run, on the short side, like Freeney but younger. Sorry to see Welker go but for that money, I think, would have got Domerville here. Whaddya think? Or anyone? Would you feel better having Elvis wearing the Flying Elvis?

    Cheers to all ....



    Yes. But you can't just get every FA. 

    The question is: who would you remove from the Patriots to have ED?



    Thanks wozzy and ZB. My thought at the time, before the draft, and the $ I believe was available for ED. Then the Pats could adjust in the draft and go (like wozzy says), for the need of a big young DT. Ninck would be a backup/or a standup OLB.

    I do think that ED would be a difference maker on D. Just hindsight in possibly a chance of looking at 2 very young DL's for the future.

    Keep up the good work ... ;-)

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to palookaski's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to palookaski's comment:

     

    Yeah, portfolio the TE position will hold up fine, a Gronk recovery will make it extraordinary talented.

    I'd like to ask wozzy a question. In hindsight, do you think the Pats should have gone all out for Elvis Domerville? He was available for a short time, at least for an offering. I realize that he is a pass rusher and lacks a bit against the run, on the short side, like Freeney but younger. Sorry to see Welker go but for that money, I think, would have got Domerville here. Whaddya think? Or anyone? Would you feel better having Elvis wearing the Flying Elvis?

    Cheers to all ....



    Yes. But you can't just get every FA. 

    The question is: who would you remove from the Patriots to have ED?



    Thanks wozzy and ZB. My thought at the time, before the draft, and the $ I believe was available for ED. Then the Pats could adjust in the draft and go (like wozzy says), for the need of a big young DT. Ninck would be a backup/or a standup OLB.

    I do think that ED would be a difference maker on D. Just hindsight in possibly a chance of looking at 2 very young DL's for the future.

    Keep up the good work ... ;-)



    1.) Wozzy is correct. a big all pro DT or 3 tech end is about the most devastating piece of hardware a football team can have AFTER an ace QB. A big reason for that is because they, more than edge rushers, can neutralize an ace QB. No other roster spot can really do that. Reall strong pressure up the middle is a kiss of death ... QBs are always told to step up into a rush, and a player like that eliminates that option. The drawback ... they are rare ... no one lets them go unless they are washed up ... if they do they cost a fortune to sign ... if you want to draft oney they are almost always top 15 selections ... usually top five. So it's not really an option for NE unless the scrap heap is historically generous.

    2.) Elvis could be a difference maker here ... just not as much of a difference maker as someone like Seymour was earlier in the decade, where he just created a domino effect that made everyone better. 

    A platoon of TK and AA should be interesting to watch develop. I'm not holding my breath that they will be the next Reggie White though. 



    Thanks professor, people were buzzing here before the Draft that it was the deepest in years at the interior D'line position, so it was very likely the PATS would hit on an excellent pick, although a lower first rd.

    BTW,  on the best Poster thread, I did'nt mention you simply because you seem to disappear for long periods but your now a daily type. I had already blown you a few kisses anyway, a few times long before the thread appeared. You perhaps never noticed my appreciation of your input here.


    Keep up your good work. I'm always amazed at how much Football is explained and exchanged just because I/we ask a simple question ..... ;-))))

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:


    I would not be too surprised to see two RBs where Vereen is able to spilt out wide.... or they can decide to who split out depending on the D package... if we want to run and the matchup favors speed we might send Ridley outside and run Vereen. But Vereen has the interesting potential of being a bit more of a WR than the other RBs.

     

     

    In response to tenace4life's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Fells, Ford, Hoomanawanui, and this new kid Sudfeld may be as good a group of tight ends as most other teams in the league . . . Sudfeld may even beat out Ballard for the 3rd TE position.  If one of Gronk, Hern and Ballard are 100% we will be fine and if two of them are 100% we will be unstoppable.

     

     

     



    Agree with Sudfeld, while the kid needs to get much stronger in the upper body, his forty, three cone and vertical were solid, top 10 combine numbers.

     

     

     

    Gronk is as good a pure fullback as there is in the league, maybe not as pure receiver as Hernendez and best of the Hbacks, he is a devastating blocker out of the backfield.

    I don't get the part where Fells didn't contribute much, he played quite a bit and made some crucial blocks, if he gets cut it will becuse he gets paid more then others.

    Gronk, Hern, Ballard, Huey, Fells and Sudfeld are as deep a unit as you'll find in all the NFL.  If being a "homer" is being able to spot the obvious than count me in.

     

     

     



    Fells did play more snaps than I thought (roughly the same as Hoo).  My perception though is based more on his lack of contribution in the passing game (just four receptions).  Gronk is such a great player because he blocks well and is also a great receiver.  This enables us to use the TEs as a primary weapon on offense.  While a blocking TE is important, you can't have that special two-TE offense the Pats have without two guys who are prime receiving threats.  Fells may be a good blocking TE, but the strength of the position for the Pats has more to do with the fact that both TEs are great receivers.  This has allowed us to get by with such a thin WR group.  If we don't have Gronk and Hern, I think the two TE offense ends up being less potent and we see more one TE formations, with WRs re-emphasized and maybe even more two back formations. 

     

     

     



    I could also see more three wide with Hern as a light TE.

     

    My guess is that they will go bunch a lot too. 

    Two RB sets might be hard, considering they don't have a true FB. But I could see them getting creative with TEs in the backfield or possible using two HBs with one (Vereen or Washington) primarily split at the line. 




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to natesubs' comment:




    they will be fine. quit being so negative.  there is still a few months till the regular season starts. and suffield looked good too amd hooman was pretty good last year as well.






    with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine!



    Suffield the town in Northern Ct?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It might have been nice to acquire Dumervil but our sack woes haven't been because we lacked edge rush talent, we were missing the three 1st round talent defensive tackles across the front, it's why we could get no pressure up the middle, it's why our talented edge rushers could not break free from offensive tackles.  

    We'll apply a lot more pressure this season assuming Wilfork, Kelly and Armstead stay healthy and the defense will look much different.  In short we have all the edge rushers we need, no need to over pay Elvis...



         I tend to agree. Having a DT that can collapse the pocket is a better thing to have than an undersized speed rusher, who can't stop the run. Hopefully, Tommy Kelly will be a Renaissance Man for the Pats this year...and provide the pressure up the middle. If the Pats can get anything out of Armstead, too...that would give their "D" a huge boost.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

         I started this thread before the Hernandez mess. Now, there's a very real possibility that the Pats will start off the season without both Gronk and AH.  Not good.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanishPastry. Show DanishPastry's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    No, it could be a mess. I haven't seen any timetable for Gronk, but I really hope they take a conservative approach and don't play him before he is ready. I'd rather sit through some tough loses in September than lose him for the season by the middle of October.

    Hernandez has played his last game as a pat, maybe his last game in the NFL. Hope I am wrong, but I just don't see a happy ending to that situation.

    Ballard, Sudfeld(sp?), Hooman(even more sp?), and Fells. Who else is on the roster at the moment?

    The presence of Gronk is of course crucial. If he starts on PUP the position is not one of strength, but maybe not a liability either. It will be so-so. Both Hooman and Fells played well at times last year. Ballard could be good. When Gronk gets back it changes everything for the better.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to DanishPastry's comment:

    No, it could be a mess. I haven't seen any timetable for Gronk, but I really hope they take a conservative approach and don't play him before he is ready. I'd rather sit through some tough loses in September than lose him for the season by the middle of October.

    Hernandez has played his last game as a pat, maybe his last game in the NFL. Hope I am wrong, but I just don't see a happy ending to that situation.

    Ballard, Sudfeld(sp?), Hooman(even more sp?), and Fells. Who else is on the roster at the moment?

    The presence of Gronk is of course crucial. If he starts on PUP the position is not one of strength, but maybe not a liability either. It will be so-so. Both Hooman and Fells played well at times last year. Ballard could be good. When Gronk gets back it changes everything for the better.



         Absolutely. The Pats' should not rush Gronk back. They must have a healthy, 2011 form Gronk to have any shot at reaching the SB. Fortunately for the Pats, the easiest part of their brutal schedule is the first three games of the year.

         BB has his work cut out for him this year. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

     

    Jake Ballard ranked seventh among tight ends in Football Outsiders' DYAR (defense-adjusted yards above replacement) metric in 2011.

    DYAR is defined as the value of a player's performance on plays in which he caught the ball, compared to a replacement-level player at the same position. While playing for the Giants in 2011, Ballard caught 38 passes for 604 yards with four touchdowns in 14 games. He proceeded to blow out his knee in the Super Bowl, but that kind of production would be welcome in New England considering the state of their tight end corps. Ballard's health will be a story worth monitoring closely come training camp.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    If you meant to say "Position on the Bench"  then Yes, you are correct.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    Jake Ballard ranked seventh among tight ends in Football Outsiders' DYAR (defense-adjusted yards above replacement) metric in 2011.

    DYAR is defined as the value of a player's performance on plays in which he caught the ball, compared to a replacement-level player at the same position. While playing for the Giants in 2011, Ballard caught 38 passes for 604 yards with four touchdowns in 14 games. He proceeded to blow out his knee in the Super Bowl, but that kind of production would be welcome in New England considering the state of their tight end corps. Ballard's health will be a story worth monitoring closely come training camp.



    Agreed. With Gronk still on the mend and AH jailed and banished, the importance of Ballard has risen.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to tenace4life's comment:

    Fells, Ford, Hoomanawanui, and this new kid Sudfeld may be as good a group of tight ends as most other teams in the league . . . Sudfeld may even beat out Ballard for the 3rd TE position.  If one of Gronk, Hern and Ballard are 100% we will be fine and if two of them are 100% we will be unstoppable.



    Yes, two journeymen (with 117 receptions in 101 career games) and two undrafted rookies are a good a group as most other teams in the league. That makes perfect sense. 

    Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

    If Ballard cannot improve on his 2011 numbers or Gronk misses considerable time, the TE position will be the weakest spot on the field for the Patriots.  I just hope Gronk can be healthy for the end of the season and the playoffs. That is all that matters.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:

    In response to tenace4life's comment:

    Fells, Ford, Hoomanawanui, and this new kid Sudfeld may be as good a group of tight ends as most other teams in the league . . . Sudfeld may even beat out Ballard for the 3rd TE position.  If one of Gronk, Hern and Ballard are 100% we will be fine and if two of them are 100% we will be unstoppable.



    Yes, two journeymen (with 117 receptions in 101 career games) and two undrafted rookies are a good a group as most other teams in the league. That makes perfect sense. 

     

    Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

    If Ballard cannot improve on his 2011 numbers or Gronk misses considerable time, the TE position will be the weakest spot on the field for the Patriots.  I just hope Gronk can be healthy for the end of the season and the playoffs. That is all that matters.



    RESPONSE: Agreed. The Aaron Hernandez mess has really thrown a monkey wrench into BB's preparations for the upcoming season. With Gronk and Ballard still recovering from injuries, the Pats have little at TE. This, in conjunction with their weak WR contingent spells trouble for their passing attack. Perhaps the Pats should consider adding free agent FB Vontae Leach, and become more of a smash mouth running team. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

         The heinous actions of AH serve as a betrayal to Bob Kraft, BB, his teammates, and to all of Patriots' Nation. Good riddance.

         But now, maybe we can return to talking football Even though his sudden release appears to put the Pats in a bit of a bind, cap-wise, there may yet be an avenue for relief:  

    "...Hernandez is still owed $10 million of his $12.5 million signing bonus, but he would not receive any bonuses or salary if he is suspended by the NFL due to a clause in the CBA, according to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe:

    Per Article 4, Section 9 of the CBA, "any player who ... is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration ... may be required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or reporting bonus, and no other salary, for each league year in which a forfeitable breach occurs." http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/6/25/4463932/aaron-hernandez-investigation-patriots-release

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    Losing Hern is huge football wise, there's no getting around that. It's not as if they can plug in [insert name here] and not skip a beat. He was a unique guy and will be missed. But maybe it's my rose colored outlook, I just don't think they'll have huge issues moving the ball and scoring. I would like to see them sign Leach (if he hasn't already signed?), but I would have liked that with/without Hern.

    But I expect they will be much better defensively. First, Jones and Hightower are two first rounders entering their second year and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect they'll be substantially better than they were last year. Rookies, other than RBs, are generally useless and those guys were at least decent first year guys. They've added Armstead, AWilson, Kelly, whoever else I'm forgetting plus the rookie draft picks (who I never expect too much out of, just to be safe). There are guys like Bequette, Ras-I and TWilson who still have a chance to be contributors.

    The front 7 (or 6 if you want) is pretty solid and I expect they'll pressure the ball better. Talib's health is a big issue, but it's undeniable they played markedly better when he was on the field. Health is always a big variable, but I'm pretty stoked to see the defense play this year.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to zbellino's comment:



    Yeah, all of a sudden, NE is really leaning on having hit a homerun in their free agency/draft moves.

    Anyone unconcerned by the severe talent drain on offense, coupled with the fact that they did nothing to augment a defense that just gave up 28 points in back to back playoff games is whistling past the graveyard or has an axe to grind elsewhere.

    This could work out if the players they brought in are good, Gronk is healthy up front and they develop chemistry real quick, but for the first time in a while I have real serious doubts about the fate of a NE football season.



    RESPONSE: Yep...it doesn't look good for the offense. Here are some cold, hard football facts on the subject: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/aaron-hernandez-arrest-latest-blow-for-tom-brady-patriots-offense/23253/

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         The heinous actions of AH serve as a betrayal to Bob Kraft, BB, his teammates, and to all of Patriots' Nation. Good riddance.

         But now, maybe we can return to talking football Even though his sudden release appears to put the Pats in a bit of a bind, cap-wise, there may yet be an avenue for relief:  

    "...Hernandez is still owed $10 million of his $12.5 million signing bonus, but he would not receive any bonuses or salary if he is suspended by the NFL due to a clause in the CBA, according to Ben Volin of the Boston Globe:

    Per Article 4, Section 9 of the CBA, "any player who ... is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration ... may be required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or reporting bonus, and no other salary, for each league year in which a forfeitable breach occurs." http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/6/25/4463932/aaron-hernandez-investigation-patriots-release

     



     

    1. Christopher PriceChristopher Price @cpriceNFL2m

      League source tells me if Hernandez is convicted, the "Patriots will have a very strong case when it comes to recouping money."

       

      Another source says "The NFLPA is going to have a hard time defending against someone involved in a murder and its coverup."

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    In response to Rocky's comment:

     

    1. Christopher PriceChristopher Price @cpriceNFL2m

      League source tells me if Hernandez is convicted, the "Patriots will have a very strong case when it comes to recouping money."

       

      Another source says "The NFLPA is going to have a hard time defending against someone involved in a murder and its coverup."



    RESPONSE: Let's hope so, Rock. I would hate to see the Patriots in essence paying for his legal fees.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: TE a Position of Strength for 2013 Pats?

    Pats are in deep trouble. You can't lose every single offensive weapon, less a hurt Gronk, and expect good things to happen. The rooks better. Get up tp speed quickly.

    does anyone think a player acquisition on offense is needed at one of the skill positions?

     
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