Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    One thing to keep in mind is that this was nothing like any former BB defense shown before. Even in the halcyon days of the Pats D, the "attack" mode was more in line with calculated versus the 24/7 attack approach of Thursday night. Even the Jags game had less D attack than last night.

    I have no fear that the overaggressiveness will be exploited. BB is 95% of the time too smart to continue doing the same thing over and over and over again, but I think even with the one gap approach, there will remain an element of "bending" still used against certain teams, vs the all out attack mode. 

    The Bucs are not a good screen or draw team. They attempted about four screens after they saw the Pats "pin their ears back" approach to that game, but Freeman and the offense line sold those attempts badly, and executed them even worse. So there was an element of gameplan last night...it was that aggresiveness.

    Last point...bet next time you see a similar "all out attack" gameplan..vs the Eagles.
     
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    Slater can play ST(Returner, Gunner..ect), Back-up WR, Back-up CB.... the guy is a great ST to have. 
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs :      The Pats are anything but "thin" at CB. But, having quantity at a position is not the same as having quality at the position. There's lots of work to be done in the secondary. But, with McCourty, Leigh Bodden, Arrington, and rookie Ras-I Dowling on board, there's reason to be optimistic.        Frankly, I'm more concerned about their safeties. Patrick Chung has issues in coverage. Brandon Meriweather freelances too much, and  has not evolved into the play-maker that the Pats hoped he would be. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats added a veteran safety, soon.   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Ras-I Dowling? I haven't seen Ras-I make too many plays as a Pat...in fact I haven't seen Ras-I make ANY play for the Patriots. I know people don't like Butler, but I think he picked up his play last night. Obviously Tampa was looking his way, but that always happens to 1 of the CBs. You throw enough balls against any CB and they're going to get some completions.

    Ras-I has to be about 7 days away from getting put on IR for the year. If he can't get on the field now, there little chance of the team getting him prepared for the year with no OTS and very little pre-season.
     
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    1. Solder needs some more mass, agreed.
    2. Ridley better make this team.
    3. Shows you how fragile a new QB really is.
    4. Carter.was.beastly.look.out.nfl.
    5. Mayo, 15 sacks this year if he stays weak side.
    6. LawWood, Ridley and who else? 4 or 5 RB's?
    7. Thanks again Miami!
    8. Very promising looking in the trenches.
    9. A good pass rush makes this group look better than they are.
    10. The DL is already improved, Albert makes it scary!
     
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    Yep, it was almost as dumb as having Price return punts last week. He also took a hit to the head - status unknown.

     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs : Ras-I Dowling? I haven't seen Ras-I make too many plays as a Pat...in fact I haven't seen Ras-I make ANY play for the Patriots. I know people don't like Butler, but I think he picked up his play last night. Obviously Tampa was looking his way, but that always happens to 1 of the CBs. You throw enough balls against any CB and they're going to get some completions. Ras-I has to be about 7 days away from getting put on IR for the year. If he can't get on the field now, there little chance of the team getting him prepared for the year with no OTS and very little pre-season.
    Posted by bobomul


         Yep...i looked it up, and Ras-I and Shane Vereen both went down during the first practice with those always nagging hamstring injuries:
     
  7. Second-round draft choices Ras-I Dowling (cornerback, 33rd overall) and Shane Vereen (running back, 56th overall) pulled up with hamstrings issues after just one practice, and they haven’t practiced since. Both signed contracts late -- this could be filed under the “lockout effect.” When Vereen was on the field, his speed stood out.

  8.      Here's a good Aug. 18th article on what's been going on in training camp, and the Pats' outlook in 2011: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag?name=ras-i-dowling 

 
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

         Here's Tedy Bruschi's analysis...in which he states that the protection problems the Pats' had came predominantly over RG Dan Connolly: http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6877638/bruschi-tap-new-england-patriots-embracing-new-defensive-scheme
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    Guys, I attended the game last night. Sat close to the field and had a great time. Much like a Sox/Rays game here, there were as many Pats fans as Bucs fans in attendance. The food sucked and the Bucs sucked, but the stadium, the Bucs Cheerleaders and the 1st half Patriots were awesome.
    Took some video of the Pats warmup:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgflovO69LE
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    Guys, I attended the game last night. Sat close to the field and had a great time. Much like a Sox/Rays game here, there were as many Pats fans as Bucs fans in attendance. The food sucked and the Bucs sucked, but the stadium, the Bucs Cheerleaders and the 1st half Patriots were awesome. Took some video of the Pats warmup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgflovO69LE
    Posted by Hog73


    Hog...Just plain old, NICE man.
    Thanx a ton for the never really ever seen, real-life close-ups stuff...
    Bumpin' this for ALL...should put it on a seperate thread. 
     
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    In Response to Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
         Admittedly, I only saw bits and pieces of last nights' game. But, based on what I saw, aside from Tom Terrific looking terrific... 1.) OT Nate Solder needs to get in the weight room and add some muscle. Though he did some things well, particularly in run blocking situations, his pass protection abilities must improve, if he's going to be charged with protecting Tom Brady. There was one particular play in which he was bull-rushed, and knocked back into Tom...falling on top of him. There was another play where Tom was hit on his formerly injured knee. This is totally unacceptable; 2.) RB Stevan Ridley once again was impressive...putting up 111 yards in rushing (84) and receiving (27). But, there was that fumble... 3.) QB Ryan Mallett disappointed, after such a fine initial outing. He looked stiff and nervous...so stiff that it appeared that somebody sprayed triple starch on his uniform. That pick six he threw was Curtis Painter-like; 4.) DE Andre Carter was very disruptive force on the edge. It's been a while since I've seen a Patriots' DE/OLB rush the passer the way he did last night; 5.) LB Jerod Mayo was a beast! At the end of this season, the Pats are going to have to pony-up big money to sign their Ray Lewis; 6.) RBs BJGE and Danny Woodhead looked to be in mid-season form; 7.) LB Rob Ninkovich isn't flashy. But, he has the knack of being in the right place at the right time. He may develop into a Mike Vrabel-like LB yet; 8.) During the first half, the Patriots' dominated on both the OL and DL; 9.) Not a good night for the secondary. Safety Patrick Chung still has issues in coverage. Though Darius Butler made a couple of good plays, he was beaten often. Did you notice that the Bucs were constantly looking his way? Devin McCourty looked rusty; 10.) Even though it doesn't show in the stats sheet, Vince Wilfolk was a major force in the middle. If Albert Haynesworth can even approach being the player he once was, the Patriots' DL will be dramatically improved.        Here are the game stats:   http://boston.stats.com/fb/boxscore.asp?gamecode=20110818027      Thoughts?     
    Posted by TexasPat3


    i agreed with yoru solder comments and thsoe 2 plays.
    i agre with one other poster that we should focus more on tight end targets.
    ridley to me shows much mor eabiltiy than bjge faster, more elusive, more more more. will be good to see what vereeen brings.

    i have been saying, i would never play in speacial teams my best nor players with unique skills on my team on.

    now we have woodhead and price sertback due to spteams hits.
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs : i agreed with yoru solder comments and thsoe 2 plays. i agre with one other poster that we should focus more on tight end targets. ridley to me shows much mor eabiltiy than bjge faster, more elusive, more more more. will be good to see what vereeen brings. i have been saying, i would never play in speacial teams my best nor players with unique skills on my team on. now we have woodhead and price sertback due to spteams hits.
    Posted by brdbreu


         I'm not so much bothered about using good players on special teams. What I can't understand is why BB would expose a 5'6", 185 lb. scatback on punt coverage?    
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    Guys, I attended the game last night. Sat close to the field and had a great time. Much like a Sox/Rays game here, there were as many Pats fans as Bucs fans in attendance. The food sucked and the Bucs sucked, but the stadium, the Bucs Cheerleaders and the 1st half Patriots were awesome. Took some video of the Pats warmup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgflovO69LE
    Posted by Hog73



    Hey Hoggie!

    GREAT VIDEO!  Was that your wife talking in the background? Are you able to go to any other games this season?
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs : Hey Hoggie! GREAT VIDEO!  Was that your wife talking in the background? Are you able to go to any other games this season?
    Posted by bradleyBliss

    Thanks, Bradley. Yeah, the one hung up on #12(he is a rock star, no doubt) and #83 was the wife. Had a few folks around us chime in, as well. Good lord, it took me over 2hrs to load that thing onto YouTube - WTH ? Anyway, the camera does no justice to demonstrate the size of these guys - they're giants. I tried to get a clip of our hero, BB, but he gets dwarfed behind the lot. No luck. 
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    I just watched the game last night, I DVR'd it since I was out of town.  It took me 5 hours to watch the whole thing (skipping commercials) because  I replayed a number of plays so I could get vantage points on how different players did on, say, a long run or pass blocking or on pass rushes. 

    Here are some observations:

    - Yeatman played very well for the most part in the run game, sealing off the DEs on multiple occasions to spring BJGE and Woodhead.  He looks to have more upside to me than Lee Smith.  Gronkowski routinely drive blocked his man and can pretty easily handle DEs.  He crushed Tampa's LBs on more than one occasion on run plays, so he is a dual threat.  He looks like a better player than last year.  The TEs were instrumental in the success of the ground game.   

    - Moore, Anderson and Carter are pretty shifty and agressively pursue plays.  It's amazing to watch a 10 year vet like Carter set up his man and either speed rush his or overpower him.  A very good pickup.  I really expect the pass rush to be improved, all three of these guys look more capable than TBC.   

    - Solder looked pretty good on running plays in particular.  Yes, he looked susceptible to the bull rush but he held his own for the most part.  On running plays it was comical to watch him in the background pushing his guy 10 yards down field or pulling and crushing one side of the TB DL.  He needs to get stronger, but he's mobile and clearly talented.

    - Kyle Arrington, Butler and Wilhite all did ok, particularly Arrington, but Butler has a knack for getting beat deep.  Some of the pressure on the Tampa QBs was because of decent coverage by the corners.  Don't know why Butler can't put it all together, he clearly has the speed to keep up with WRs.  The good news is that all 3 of these guys have some experience and McCourty and Bodden will make a good tandem. 

    - Tried to keep an eye on Sergio Brown.  Hard to tell what he excels at, but the good news is that he seems to be in position in coverage and can provide run support.  Seems to have held his own, got one penalty that I guess they have to call (horse collar)

    - I thought the LBs (Fletcher, Guyton) looked ok, and Mayo blew up the spot.  I think the Pats are going to try to take advantage of his speed and strength and make him into more of a playmaker than a tackling machine.  Good pass rush, good coverage, and pursuit is on par with the best LBs in the NFL. 

    - The DL has serious depth.  Pryor, Warren and Love will be very good depth.  This team could be scary if Ellis and Haynesworth can provide anyhting near what they have in the past.  Thought Warren had a good game, cannot see any circumstance where he doesn't make the team. 

    - Some of the WRs looked out of synch (Branch, COC) but Hernandez looks like a nightmare matchup and Welker looked like he was in mid-season form.  This team has a lot of weapons. 

    Just think that Brace, Spikes, Haynesworth, Cannon, Cunnigham, Deaderick, Ellis, Dowling, Vereen, Sanders and others haven't even really played much yet.  You have to think that most of those guys are going to be major contributors.  This team has some very good depth. 
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    I agree with Killa about Solder he looked like a giant out there. Yes that one play where he missed and ended up getting pushed into brady but over all he shut his man down(whom was also a 1st rd draft pick????) I'll take Light at LT for now but d-coordinators will be staying up late at night trying to figure out Solder and Volmer....The Twin Towers. The offensive line was VERY impressive as we rushed for 200 yards. Woodhead and Lawfirm look to be in mid season form as does the run blocking. Ridley came in and was a workhorse!!! I am scared for opposing teams rb's and qb's when we introduce Albert and Shaun Ellis into the d-line.... Gonna be a lot of open lanes for LB's to come shooting in! VW and Gerrard Warren were unstoppable, and on offense Hernandez looks like he has worked on route running quite a bit. Very exciting and btw the Bucs are an above average team...
    Posted by TrueChamp
    Just for clarification both times the Bucs got to Brady neither was attributable to Solder!!! The one that came from the left side was on Mankins according to Bedard from BHS as he lost control of his man,the other was on Connolly as his man just blew him up and bullrushed past him.
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    I just watched the game last night, I DVR'd it since I was out of town.  It took me 5 hours to watch the whole thing (skipping commercials) because  I replayed a number of plays so I could get vantage points on how different players did on, say, a long run or pass blocking or on pass rushes.  Here are some observations: - Yeatman played very well for the most part in the run game, sealing off the DEs on multiple occasions to spring BJGE and Woodhead.  He looks to have more upside to me than Lee Smith.  Gronkowski routinely drive blocked his man and can pretty easily handle DEs.  He crushed Tampa's LBs on more than one occasion on run plays, so he is a dual threat.  He looks like a better player than last year.  The TEs were instrumental in the success of the ground game.    - Moore, Anderson and Carter are pretty shifty and agressively pursue plays.  It's amazing to watch a 10 year vet like Carter set up his man and either speed rush his or overpower him.  A very good pickup.  I really expect the pass rush to be improved, all three of these guys look more capable than TBC.    - Solder looked pretty good on running plays in particular.  Yes, he looked susceptible to the bull rush but he held his own for the most part.  On running plays it was comical to watch him in the background pushing his guy 10 yards down field or pulling and crushing one side of the TB DL.  He needs to get stronger, but he's mobile and clearly talented. - Kyle Arrington, Butler and Wilhite all did ok, particularly Arrington, but Butler has a knack for getting beat deep.  Some of the pressure on the Tampa QBs was because of decent coverage by the corners.  Don't know why Butler can't put it all together, he clearly has the speed to keep up with WRs.  The good news is that all 3 of these guys have some experience and McCourty and Bodden will make a good tandem.  - Tried to keep an eye on Sergio Brown.  Hard to tell what he excels at, but the good news is that he seems to be in position in coverage and can provide run support.  Seems to have held his own, got one penalty that I guess they have to call (horse collar) - I thought the LBs (Fletcher, Guyton) looked ok, and Mayo blew up the spot.  I think the Pats are going to try to take advantage of his speed and strength and make him into more of a playmaker than a tackling machine.  Good pass rush, good coverage, and pursuit is on par with the best LBs in the NFL.  - The DL has serious depth.  Pryor, Warren and Love will be very good depth.  This team could be scary if Ellis and Haynesworth can provide anyhting near what they have in the past.  Thought Warren had a good game, cannot see any circumstance where he doesn't make the team.  - Some of the WRs looked out of synch (Branch, COC) but Hernandez looks like a nightmare matchup and Welker looked like he was in mid-season form.  This team has a lot of weapons.  Just think that Brace, Spikes, Haynesworth, Cannon, Cunnigham, Deaderick, Ellis, Dowling, Vereen, Sanders and others haven't even really played much yet.  You have to think that most of those guys are going to be major contributors.  This team has some very good depth. 
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn
    Pretty accurate analysis. I would have added that Branch looked a little more out of synch than 85. If the Patriots want to they can line Hernandez up in the SWR position and the opposition will have an even bigger problem defending him,maybe they keep both of the blocking TE's Yeatman and Smith and just move Hernandez to his more natural position HB/SWR. according to BB Haynesworth is doing just fine,so any hope that Jets fans have as to his potentially being cut can be put to rest,same for Ellis. Their front 7 have improved from just Mayo and Wilfork and some guys, to 5 pro bolwers and some decent parts. Also I'd like too mention the guy they signed mid-week last week,Kuotuovides as he looked good in the mike position and he had good pursuit to the QB along with his sack he was a nuisance!!!!
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs : Thanks, Bradley. Yeah, the one hung up on #12(he is a rock star, no doubt) and #83 was the wife. Had a few folks around us chime in, as well. Good lord, it took me over 2hrs to load that thing onto YouTube - WTH ? Anyway, the camera does no justice to demonstrate the size of these guys - they're giants. I tried to get a clip of our hero, BB, but he gets dwarfed behind the lot. No luck. 
    Posted by Hog73



    Hey Hog!

    SIZE does matter!  My wife and I went to a practice last year and you are right.....the linemen and TE's are huge. Are you going to be able to see the Pats when we play Miami???? Seems they never sell out lately...or is that just the Bucs & Jags???
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs : Thanks, Bradley. Yeah, the one hung up on #12(he is a rock star, no doubt) and #83 was the wife. Had a few folks around us chime in, as well. Good lord, it took me over 2hrs to load that thing onto YouTube - WTH ? Anyway, the camera does no justice to demonstrate the size of these guys - they're giants. I tried to get a clip of our hero, BB, but he gets dwarfed behind the lot. No luck. 
    Posted by Hog73


    thanks for the video. that was awesome. thanks fo rthe time it took to load it.
    look forward to teh next chance you get!

    thanks!

     
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    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3abddc8151-ccc4-43f0-ad27-361765cb4d45&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:bddc8151-ccc4-43f0-ad27-361765cb4d45Post:092ad756-f383-40ad-9942-a5613eb01d9b">Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
         Hey Sam...can you, or anybody else...explain to me why 5'6", 185 lb. RB Danny Woodhead is covering punts? He's a key member of the Pats' offense. How ridiculous would it be if he suffered a concussion due to the cheap shot he absorbed last night...and was bothered by symptoms throughout the season?      I'm a huge BB supporter. But...using Woodhead to cover a punt was just plain dumb.  
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Not sure if someone already jumped on this or not but this was a huge topic on sports radio Friday morning. Numerous people were calling in furious that he was out there for that. The response (not from BB) from the local contingent was there's only so many chances you get to practice that situation live and you need to take advantage of them. Another question would be why is Woodhead on ST at all?

    Gresh......a talent on from 10-12 made the argument that although he's an important part of the team his loss wouldn't prevent them from having a great season. I was on hold to argue that one but couldn't wait.

    I think Scott Zolak summed it up best, he said if you were to ask BB this question his response would be "Football players play football"
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3abddc8151-ccc4-43f0-ad27-361765cb4d45&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:bddc8151-ccc4-43f0-ad27-361765cb4d45Post:092ad756-f383-40ad-9942-a5613eb01d9b " /> Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs : Not sure if someone already jumped on this or not but this was a huge topic on sports radio Friday morning. Numerous people were calling in furious that he was out there for that. The response (not from BB) from the local contingent was there's only so many chances you get to practice that situation live and you need to take advantage of them. Another question would be why is Woodhead on ST at all? Gresh......a talent on from 10-12 made the argument that although he's an important part of the team his loss wouldn't prevent them from having a great season. I was on hold to argue that one but couldn't wait. I think Scott Zolak summed it up best, he said if you were to ask BB this question his response would be "Football players play football"
    Posted by Sam-Adams


         Yeah...football players play football. But how many football players are 5'6", and weigh 185 lbs. soaking wet?

         Putting Woodhead on the field to cover a punt makes no sense.
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3abddc8151-ccc4-43f0-ad27-361765cb4d45&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:9690Discussion:bddc8151-ccc4-43f0-ad27-361765cb4d45Post:f284340f-acc3-4a43-a6ce-e47fa25bf0ad">Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs :      Yeah...football players play football. But how many football players are 5'6", and weigh 185 lbs. soaking wet?      Putting Woodhead on the field to cover a punt makes no sense.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    I can't agree more. What he brings to the offense coupled with his size makes it totally crazy for this kid to be out there on ST. There's way too many fruitloops out there trying to make a roster spot by blowing someone up.

    I know I'll be watching to see if BB agrees or has him out there on ST for the Lions.
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    You guys may be right on Woodhead being out there late in a meaningless game but here's Bill's explanation;

    On RB Danny Woodhead playing on punt coverage in 4th quarter. "When we go into any game, all players are told to be ready to play the entire 60 minutes. That’s what a game is. We don’t stop playing. We don’t stop coaching. Everybody’s ready to play the whole time from beginning to end. That’s every player and every coach. That’s part of the game. That’s how we approach them all."
    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4700467/belichick-hints-at-roster-moves-ahead
     
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    In Response to Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs:
    You guys may be right on Woodhead being out there late in a meaningless game but here's Bill's explanation; On RB Danny Woodhead playing on punt coverage in 4th quarter. "When we go into any game, all players are told to be ready to play the entire 60 minutes. That’s what a game is. We don’t stop playing. We don’t stop coaching. Everybody’s ready to play the whole time from beginning to end. That’s every player and every coach. That’s part of the game. That’s how we approach them all." http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4700467/belichick-hints-at-roster-moves-ahead
    Posted by digger0862


         Again...how many football players are pint sized, like Woodhead? Sorry...I'm not buying it. It was a dumb move...and now, Woodhead sits with a possible concussion. 
     
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    Re: Ten Observations on Patriots @.Bucs

    I seem to remember Woodhead making a few great special teams tackles last year--one right after scoring a touchdown if I remember right. 

    It's part of the game.  You gotta give guys practice in all situations and see who can do what.  There are only a limited number of roster slots and BB has never been one to excuse starters from special teams. 
     
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