Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from One-If-By-Sea. Show One-If-By-Sea's posts

    Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    Football is won in the trenches. With the high flying 16-0 season in 2007, the Pats seem to have forgotten that basic rule of football. The fans, and a lot of people on this forum, all want skill players in the draft - Dez Brayant or a RB or whatever. Logan Mankins is not a sexy first round pick. Remember last year when Mel Kiper was beside himself because we drafted Vollmer in the second round??? Mel went crazy - we could have picked Vollmer in the 5th Mel said - of course that was not true. CJ Spiller; Dez Bryant - it is always the same - the skilled players are magically going to fall to #22. Who cares? We do not want them. Forget WR and RB - we need guys in the trenches - DE, TE, Center, OLB. OH you guys are going to hate this thread - it is not sexy. No 4.24 second 40 yard dashes!!! Let's hope BB has learned his lesson and there is not a RB or WR drafted until the 4th round like the old days when we won SBs.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    You are correct. Other then Brace name a player in the LB, DL, or OL picked in the first 2 rounds that haven't played at minimum heavy backup time. Even better name a single OL, LB, or DL guy picked in the first that haven't been pro-bowlers for us. However on the opposite end I haven't seen a WR we picked in the 2nd that has been worth it, Maroney would be fine as a backup RB but not a 1st rounder an even at TE Watson and Graham weren't worth a 1st pick, though Graham would have been good for a 2nd and Watson a 3rd. I'm not ready to give up on selecting skill positions early in the draft but I feel that players like Graham LB, Kindle LB, Huges LB, Odrick DE, or Pouncey C would be better and less risk overall choices. Then we can grab a skill guy in the 2nd.

    Given LB's, DL, OL I want 3 of but wouldn't mind if we only grab 2 out of my little list here

    LB's: McClain, Graham, Kindle, Hughes, Misi, Griffin

    DL: Odrick, Carrington, Houston, Alualu, Joseph

    OL: Pouncey, Veldheer, Ducasses
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    No argument here.  Would have been nice if we had drafted linemen instead of Moroney and Maryweather.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    I agree, but at least one of the first 4 picks should get Brady a new toy to play with. The O-Line can give him all day, it won't matter if he doesn't have a dependable reciever to throw it to. Remember that AFC Championship we should have won? If only Reche Caldwell could have held on to that ball.......
    Posted by FishTaco64


    Don't remind me. I still have nightmares of watching his eyes bug out of his head as the ball was coming his way.

    You are right though. Ideally I'd like #22 on a pass rush OLB, #44 on a #2 WR, #47 on a 3 down DE, and #53 for the OL but just as long as we take care of all 4 with the first 5 picks I'd be happy
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ONE-TIME. Show ONE-TIME's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    I think every smart football fan understands this. That said IMO the Pats have so many needs it tough to say we have to get this position. I mean everyone knows we need a pass rush , but getting , and this goes to your point , someone to play the 5 technique is just as important IMO. I feel the same way about the S position , you cant overstate how important a Reed , Polamalu , Dawkins , Lynch are/were to their teams. Id love to move up in the draft and grab a  Thomas/Berry this year. I just see so many needs that we can almost go best available , especially if we stay at 22.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    one-time, all those safeties you mention excelled laregly because they were on teams that got pressure on the qb. i said it a few days agoa nd i wills ay this again here...ne's secondary would not look as bad as it has in the last couple of years if the opposing qb feared ne's ability to sit him down on the ground. given the way rules favor the receiver downfield, the best way to defend the pass is pressure. case in point: that's how other teams beat ne. the person who started this post is right...trenches, trenches, trenches
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    I agree, which is why I won't be at all disappointed if the Pat's draft an offensive tackle with their first pick. I've been arguing since the Super Bowl years that our OTs aren't good enough.  I think Light is a hard worker who makes the most of his talent, but he's simply not athletic enough to be a great left tackle. And right tackle has been very poor for years.  Vollmer looks like a great find who can play either side well.  I would love to see the Pats pick up another young tackle to pair with him and together be the cornerstones of that line for years to come.

    On the defensive side, I agree it all starts in the trenches, but right now I think the Pat's weaknesses are more at linebacker and cornerback. I can live with our defensive line--but we need a versatile pass-rushing OLB and we need someone opposite Bodden at corner who won't be burned repeatedly.  

    At the so-called "skill" positions (as if left tackle isn't a skilled position?--try playing it sometime!), we have to get an outside threat other than Moss.  And we now need at least a serviceable TE to replace Watson. I know everybody hates Maroney--and I'm frustrated with him too--but I think we can live with him for another year, especially if our O-line is improved.  And we need to re-sign Mankins because without him the quality of the interior O-line drops precipitously.

    I do think it's important this year to get quality more than quantity, so I hope the Pats work the top of the draft more than the bottom this year.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    amen.
    I'll go with fortifying the trenches. Our D line (less VW & Warren) are backup caliber players. Wright, Brace, Pryor, Lewis are decent, but not starters in this league. 

    I want to see us add (not depth), but a day 1 starter on the DL, who can play DE. I'll go with PatsEng recommendation of Alualu in round 2, and possibly trade 22 down to late first and pick up Saffold or Pouncey. There you go, we just added 2 quality starters to the trenches and can focus the rest of the draft on LB, WR, TE and the rest. 
    This draft is going to be more intriguing than any other year because of the Pats flexibility to move around. Not only do they have 4 picks in the top 53, they also have 2 first rounders next year. I think all of these could be called upon + would not be surprised to see some player packaging happening...
    This could be the draft of all drafts, or another mediocre one depending upon what BB does. Lets hope he hits on all picks, and choose quality over quantity.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    I'm pretty much in agreance in what they have to address.  They need another OT, a OC would be nice but not necessary right now.  As for trench guy at TE they have one for now (Crumpler) they need a reciever type.  Yup I agree on DE and OLB. 

    BUT...They definitely do need to draft a WR with one of the 2nd round picks too. The game has changed offense is king. It will be very hard to win with just a solid D. The problem with WR they've drafted high is they were high risk.  There are a few WR who should be available in the 2nd round who are more well rounded.

    They can use a power RB and they'd be fine with the OL especially with another OT. The recieving TE and the power RB should be around in the 4-5th rounds. They make even find another blocking TE.

    Basically I'd look to 2011 for the feature RB and OC naturally depending on who they get in 2010.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    Yes, fix the lines or we'll never know what the skill position guys are capable of.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    You are correct. Other then Brace name a player in the LB, DL, or OL picked in the first 2 rounds that haven't played at minimum heavy backup time....Posted by PatsEng


    Adrian Klemm
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    Trenches huh.  How would people feel if we say got:
    22 Pouncey C/OG
    44 Hughes DE/OLB
    47 Damian Williams WR
    53 Veldheer OT
    119 TE to be named later

    I would not complain, and I think it is possible.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    I think that'd be a terrific draft.


    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    Trenches huh.  How would people feel if we say got: 22 Pouncey C/OG 44 Hughes DE/OLB 47 Damian Williams WR 53 Veldheer OT 119 TE to be named later I would not complain, and I think it is possible.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from HRK103. Show HRK103's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    This is the best thread to date on what the Pats should do.

    IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT
    GAME ARE WON IN THE TRENCHES
    O/D LINES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT GROUPS

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches : Adrian Klemm
    Posted by Muzwell


    Alright you got me with Klemm but you had to go all the way back to BB's first draft inorder to do it really. Not bad for 10 years of drafting
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    Trenches huh.  How would people feel if we say got: 22 Pouncey C/OG 44 Hughes DE/OLB 47 Damian Williams WR 53 Veldheer OT 119 TE to be named later I would not complain, and I think it is possible.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    I'd like that draft though I wouldn't mind replacing either Pouncey or Veldheer with a strong DE guy. I just like to fill or biggest need in pass rushing with 2 big bodies. 1 on the line and 1 in the lb core
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    Trenches huh.  How would people feel if we say got: 22 Pouncey C/OG 44 Hughes DE/OLB 47 Damian Williams WR 53 Veldheer OT 119 TE to be named later I would not complain, and I think it is possible.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    I would rather they dealt with the DL before OL, but if they did that I'd be happy. Veldeer is definitely a sleeper OT who could be well worth it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    One of the problems last year was holding on to a lead. The old Patriots would never blow a lead in the fourth quarter. The old Patriots built a dynasty on closing out games. Check out these stats.

    Patriots' record since 2002
                                         2002-08     2009
    When Leading at Halftime        66-1     8-4
    When Leading at End of 3rd     69-1     9-4
    When leading by 10+ points     68-1     9-3
    /> /> Source: Elias Sports Bureau


    A lot of the blame can go to Tom Brady. Late in close games last year, Brady was mostly ineffective. Randy Moss didn't help much either, his fourth quarter stats were his worst compared to his first three quarters.

    Also contributing was the pass defense. Chad Henne pick the Pats apart for 335 yards last year. The pass rush did not consistently pressure the quarterback.. They had their fewest sack total in years.

    In summation, I think an improved offensive line will help Brady and the running game close out games. They also need to improve their pass rush to keep opposing offenses off the field.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from HRK103. Show HRK103's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    I hope BB is reading this thread in his prep. for the draft.Cool
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    Isn't success in drafting the big uglies part of the reason the Pat's have Floyd Reese?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from HRK103. Show HRK103's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    In Response to Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches:
    Isn't success in drafting the big uglies part of the reason the Pat's have Floyd Reese?
    Posted by krismk


    That and to find talent for all positions from any source.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    Add Bruce Campbell to the mix.

    If he slides far enough in the draft, he's such a physical freak that I think he'd be worth a flyer.  Guys just shouldn't be that big, that fast, and that strong.  Look him up and you'll be amazed.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches

    Say no to Campbell, he screams like a Raiders pick, looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.  I wouldnt even grab him in the 2nd rd.  Saffold or Veldheer are much better IMHO
    I wonder if we grab Pouncey, what we could get for Koppen?  this way we can get an extra pick this year and add more youth and speed. Maybe take a late rd flyer on Blount or Dixon in the 4th or so.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Tenches, Trenches, Trenches


    mordecai,

    I like your mock generally....I can't see us going with 2 OL in the first 4 picks. 

    Here is one I posted on another board....thoughts appreciated....

    22 - Pouncey (if Graham is not available)...if Graham is available then take him.
    44 - Aurelius Benn (#2 WR in 2009, moves to #1 in 2010)
    47 - Tyson Alualu (either our 3-4 or 4-3 DE..great motor, inside pass rush)
    53 - Daniel Te'O Nesheim (6'3, 265...our 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE, or 3-4 ILB) versatile & angry.


     
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