the AH serial CRIME thread

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    look, in the coming weeks, there will be 8-10 more instances of AH and crimes committed. Police reports were filed.

    The NFL and the PAts have access to the FBI as well as local and state police for back ground checks...many will sit here with their heads in the sand and say the Pats didnt know anything, how could they know anything, why would they know anything? Others will blame the players agent.

    At the end of the day, there were many, many warning signs that AH was a very risky signing...as I mentioned before, go ahead and roll the dice with a mid round draft choice. But to build an offense around such a questionable character, and give him a $40M contract is a case of the Pats not doing their homework, or looking the other way if they did do their homework...

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ANONMD08. Show ANONMD08's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    You know what's funny, if the Jets had drafted him this board would be lit up like a Christmas tree about another thug landing in NY. I'm sure BB was well aware of the issues.  BB has a tight connection with Urban Meyer and Hernandez was a nice talent at Florida. Things will continue to pop up.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    At the end of the day, there were many, many warning signs that AH was a very risky signing...as I mentioned before, go ahead and roll the dice with a mid round draft choice. But to build an offense around such a questionable character, and give him a $40M contract is a case of the Pats not doing their homework, or looking the other way if they did do their homework...

     



    No matter what actually happened, you seem fixated on pointing fingers at the Pats organization as if it's important to you that they come out of this whole thing looking bad. Every time you post about the AH subject, you are trying to paint the Pats as the folks who are at blame for somehow not doing enough. The fact is it could have happened to ANYBODY.

    I think they knew AH was a problem child, as you say every day here, it's hard not to see he had a troubled past. The Pats took a risk thinking that AH (might) clean up his act. AH played great for 3 seasons, and obviously did enough to EARN that big payday. So they take a big risk on this kid, knowing about a troubled past, and it blew up in their face. Get over it, they made a mistake.

    They won't be the first team to make a mistake on a punk that doesn't want to grow out of his troubled past, and they certainly won't be the last. I'm sure the Pats organization is very sorry they didn't live up to your standards of "Due Dilligence". My God man...let it go.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-bilbo. Show Pats-bilbo's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    If you look at the last 2 years or so... AH was just plain Stupid... for being that involved directly and even the murder is more sloppy than the old "detective" stories on TV even barney fife could figure this one out. 

    I am sure the Pats had concerns but he hadn't shown he was capable of murder and hitting someone and murder are far from each other. Because someone smokes Pot does not mean they will do Heroin. They might but it is not a 100% guarantee. If all AH did was punch people he would still be a patriot probably. Blaming the Pats for this is like blaming the parents of a Serial Killer...

    The Pats released him as soon as he was arrested and did it without worrying about Cap implications. They did the right thing. Did they make a poor choice in drafting him. I say no but it is just my opinion. Did they do the wrong thing in giving him a contract extension, hindsight says yes but we don't know what facts they did or did not have when they made the decision. Anyway they could not go back and change that decision. They can only go off the info at hand. When it became apparent, Hernandez was definately involved and deeply they cut ties.

    They will learn from this and they will change their ways, can the Raiders, Bengels or Cowboys say they have changed their ways?

    AH is a scum bag and he is in Jail. I hope he never gets out and any money the pats gave him goes to the family of the people that he killed.


    --- " I am a happy fan, a proud fan and I want us to win every game 28-0 but as long as we win, the team is united and has a sense of respect to the community and the game I will be a patriots fan and damn proud of it." ---- signed a pats fan from middle earth

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    You know whats even funnier, is that if we were all subject to the kinds of background investigations people are saying the Pats should have done on AH, and that if what was in those background investigations actually prevented people from getting jobs, unemployment would be at 50% or higher. LOTS of people did STUPID things as teenagers. How many people got in fights, smoked weed (or used other drugs), or may have stolen something? How many of them actually straightened out and went on to be law abiding, productive, non-violent members of our society. The Pats made their decisions based on the totality of the information they had, background checks, interviews with AH, teammates, coaches etc., they knew he wasn't a choir boy. And thought there was enough there to take a chance (what 4th round pick isn't a chance) that he would make the right decisions and do the right things with is life once he got to the NFL. Dieon Branch considered him (actually still considers him) a great friend, teammate, and person. AH apparently fooled a lot of people with his behavior for the 3 years he was with the Patriots, but his actions were his and his alone.


     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    At the end of the day, there were many, many warning signs that AH was a very risky signing...as I mentioned before, go ahead and roll the dice with a mid round draft choice. But to build an offense around such a questionable character, and give him a $40M contract is a case of the Pats not doing their homework, or looking the other way if they did do their homework...

     



    No matter what actually happened, you seem fixated on pointing fingers at the Pats organization as if it's important to you that they come out of this whole thing looking bad. Every time you post about the AH subject, you are trying to paint the Pats as the folks who are at blame for somehow not doing enough. The fact is it could have happened to ANYBODY.

     

    I think they knew AH was a problem child, as you say every day here, it's hard not to see he had a troubled past. The Pats took a risk thinking that AH (might) clean up his act. AH played great for 3 seasons, and obviously did enough to EARN that big payday. So they take a big risk on this kid, knowing about a troubled past, and it blew up in their face. Get over it, they made a mistake.

    They won't be the first team to make a mistake on a punk that doesn't want to grow out of his troubled past, and they certainly won't be the last. I'm sure the Pats organization is very sorry they didn't live up to your standards of "Due Dilligence". My God man...let it go.

    [/QUOTE]

    you know Tan, I would if the Pats said something, anything on the matter, ditto the NFL.

    First off, I am a long time season ticket holder charged exhorbitant prices and have brought my wife and kids to most every game I have attended as a fan (as opposed to working some games). I am put off by the thuggery in the NFL in general, and the lip service paid to try and clean up these acts of violance, DUI's, crimes against women etc. Goodell was hired to end this mockery, and as it is very evident, he hasn't. The NFL owners, Kraft included, have also pledged to clean this criminal elemant up and out of the NFL. Again, to this fan it seems to be lip service. I am not a lip service type of person. I expect the NFL to own up to its words.

    Second, I and many whom I have employed in the past, are most likely employed because of the popularity of the game. Truthfully, at 54 years of age, I only see myself doing this for another 2-5 years before I retire. But I brought along almost 20 people with me who would like to work longer, and in order to do so, need the game to thrive.  There are too many involved that make the NFL thrive...fans paying big bucks for seats, businesses paying big bucks for PSL's and advertising...and networks for broadcast rights. Many, many people supporting the NFL with $$$$ are turned off with the criminal element and do not want to be associated. It happened to the NBA not too long ago, and can also happen to football. Goodell better not fall asleep at the wheel, because if he looks in his rear view mirror, there are 2 recent non entities making major in roads to the almighty $$$...hockey and soccer...

    MelWit also opined in a similar tone above. There is a general part of the population, like you, that doesnt care. AH was released...move on...but then the next AH shows up the same week (in Cleveland or Indy)...I simply believe there is a greater part of the population out there does not think like you, that is putting money into the game, that is sick of the criminal element...which I am.

    And yes, I find the Pats lack of comment appalling and insulting. Goodell and Kraft should get up before the media, and insist that the team,a nd the NFL is going to do a better job in checking players out, and the hint of criminal activity will result in automatic suspensions. And this time, they should mean it and see it thru...

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:

    You know whats even funnier, is that if we were all subject to the kinds of background investigations people are saying the Pats should have done on AH, and that if what was in those background investigations actually prevented people from getting jobs, unemployment would be at 50% or higher. LOTS of people did STUPID things as teenagers. How many people got in fights, smoked weed (or used other drugs), or may have stolen something? How many of them actually straightened out and went on to be law abiding, productive, non-violent members of our society. The Pats made their decisions based on the totality of the information they had, background checks, interviews with AH, teammates, coaches etc., they knew he wasn't a choir boy. And thought there was enough there to take a chance (what 4th round pick isn't a chance) that he would make the right decisions and do the right things with is life once he got to the NFL. Dieon Branch considered him (actually still considers him) a great friend, teammate, and person. AH apparently fooled a lot of people with his behavior for the 3 years he was with the Patriots, but his actions were his and his alone.


     



    I am employed by a large corporation. We have random drug testing as part of our health insurance. It lowers the premiums for each employee. If you are chosen to be tested, you have 24 hours to test, if you miss the 24 hours, it is a "failed test"..and you have to go to counseling.

    Promotions are based on the inclusion of a psychological test (heavily weighted to how aggresive a person is)

    Many companies have similar situations...

    Paying some one millions is a high stakes game...the risk should not all be on the employer

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread


    rkarp,

    We agree on one thing, that the thugs have no place in sports. I'd like to see them all in jail as well, but this just isn't realistic.

    Thugs are among us, in every walk of life....not just pro sports. One would like to believe that these kids getting these big $$ contracts (no matter what sport) would wake up and fly straight from whatever troubled past they may have. In many cases, they do actually grow out of that thug lifestyle.

    In this case, it didn't happen. People got fooled. Very smart people got fooled. Personally, I think all these suspensions in pro sports are horsecrap. If they want to get rid of the thugs, anyone convicted of a major felony should be banned perminently. Again, just not reality.

    I guess where you & I really differ, is that I just worry about things that are more important in life like our families, kids, friends, jobs, etc. This is just an ugly incident in pro sports. It happens every where. It will happen again. Why should I lose any sleep over it? We will never rid the world of all the bad apples....whether in sports or not. That is my reality, and I'm not about to waste energy trying to blame (good people) like Kraft or BB for mistakes that could have happened to anyone.

    No more thugs in pro sports? Heck yeah, sign me up. But then I wake up to reality.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    Most of the blame has to lay with Hernandez. He had fame and fortune at his fingertips thanks to Robert Kraft and the Patriots but he preferred his gun. What a waste.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    You know whats even funnier, is that if we were all subject to the kinds of background investigations people are saying the Pats should have done on AH, and that if what was in those background investigations actually prevented people from getting jobs, unemployment would be at 50% or higher. LOTS of people did STUPID things as teenagers. How many people got in fights, smoked weed (or used other drugs), or may have stolen something? How many of them actually straightened out and went on to be law abiding, productive, non-violent members of our society. The Pats made their decisions based on the totality of the information they had, background checks, interviews with AH, teammates, coaches etc., they knew he wasn't a choir boy. And thought there was enough there to take a chance (what 4th round pick isn't a chance) that he would make the right decisions and do the right things with is life once he got to the NFL. Dieon Branch considered him (actually still considers him) a great friend, teammate, and person. AH apparently fooled a lot of people with his behavior for the 3 years he was with the Patriots, but his actions were his and his alone.


     

     



    I am employed by a large corporation. We have random drug testing as part of our health insurance. It lowers the premiums for each employee. If you are chosen to be tested, you have 24 hours to test, if you miss the 24 hours, it is a "failed test"..and you have to go to counseling.

     

    Promotions are based on the inclusion of a psychological test (heavily weighted to how aggresive a person is)

    Many companies have similar situations...

    Paying some one millions is a high stakes game...the risk should not all be on the employer

    [/QUOTE]

    I have worked at the Seabrook Nuclear plant and was also subject to psychological evaluations and random drug screenings. Ours were immediate, if your name came up, you had to go directly to health services to pee in the cup. I also had a drug sreening at my current position when I started here, I have no problems with employers requiring this. I don't make millions unfortunately...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to tanbass' comment:


    rkarp,

    We agree on one thing, that the thugs have no place in sports. I'd like to see them all in jail as well, but this just isn't realistic.

    Thugs are among us, in every walk of life....not just pro sports. One would like to believe that these kids getting these big $$ contracts (no matter what sport) would wake up and fly straight from whatever troubled past they may have. In many cases, they do actually grow out of that thug lifestyle.

    In this case, it didn't happen. People got fooled. Very smart people got fooled. Personally, I think all these suspensions in pro sports are horsecrap. If they want to get rid of the thugs, anyone convicted of a major felony should be banned perminently. Again, just not reality.

    I guess where you & I really differ, is that I just . This is jusworry about things that are more important in life like our families, kids, friends, jobs, etct an ugly incident in pro sports. It happens every where. It will happen again. Why should I lose any sleep over it? We will never rid the world of all the bad apples....whether in sports or not. That is my reality, and I'm not about to waste energy trying to blame (good people) like Kraft or BB for mistakes that could have happened to anyone.

    No more thugs in pro sports? Heck yeah, sign me up. But then I wake up to reality.




    I hear ya Tan...but it is potentially effecting my job, and many whom have been in my employ. And while my kids are now older, they spent many Sundays for years at the stadium.Lastly, this isnt an ugly incident. This is an epidemic in the NFL.

    I understand it does not effect you, and you dont care. I simpl;y feel that it does effect many, and many do care. And it should be Goodell and Kraft and the other owners that do their best to put an end to it....I can guarantee you, 100% guarantee, that the NFL after this being front and center coverage for the past few weeks tarnishing the NFL brand, that Goodell WILL announce harsher penalties...with many of the owners on the podium with him in support, including Kraft front and center...I bet this happens before camp opens

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    You know whats even funnier, is that if we were all subject to the kinds of background investigations people are saying the Pats should have done on AH, and that if what was in those background investigations actually prevented people from getting jobs, unemployment would be at 50% or higher. LOTS of people did STUPID things as teenagers. How many people got in fights, smoked weed (or used other drugs), or may have stolen something? How many of them actually straightened out and went on to be law abiding, productive, non-violent members of our society. The Pats made their decisions based on the totality of the information they had, background checks, interviews with AH, teammates, coaches etc., they knew he wasn't a choir boy. And thought there was enough there to take a chance (what 4th round pick isn't a chance) that he would make the right decisions and do the right things with is life once he got to the NFL. Dieon Branch considered him (actually still considers him) a great friend, teammate, and person. AH apparently fooled a lot of people with his behavior for the 3 years he was with the Patriots, but his actions were his and his alone.


     

     




    get real. how many of us had been linked to murders and drivebys by age 17? i'm going to take a wild guess and assume he didnt start acting out at that level at age17.. a kid may break in and steal stuff, do some drugs, or have gal issues... its ridiculous to compare anyone with hern as a norm! this is like a 911 error.. all the signs were there but everyone just ignored it. it has to b fixed so a loony sociopath like him never again slips thru!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There was nothing linking Hernandez to drive-bys and murders at age 17 when the Patriots drafted him at age 20, NOTHING. From the ESPN article TFB12 posted, most accounts had him to be a pretty well behaved teenager until his father died when he was 16. He had a few issues in college, they are documented. I'm willing to bet that 25% of all NFL players have some kind of documented issue from their younger days, should none of them have been drafted? How about Honey Badger? He's had a very troubled past, yet you were one of those saying the Pats should go get him. There was nothing in AH's documented behavior at age 20 that would have led people to believe he was headed to be the alleged killer is is now suspected to be. As I said the Patriots knew he wasn't a perfect, model citizen when they drafted him. They expected he would mature into a mature, productive adult (as most of the people who do those stupid things at a young age do), it looks like he chose a different path.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:

    8557_535012346560523_2109475514_n

    what up dawg? thats hern and spikes chillin... the only known contact of note or recently that the loner Hern ever had with an actual teammate off-premises.

    COMMY COMMY COMMY COMMY CONTRARIAN, HE COMES AND GOES, HE COMES AND GOES... @commyContrarian on Twitter!



    You might be onto something here.  They went to the same school, played on the same professional football team, and they have a picture off the field together.  Spikes is probably involved in the murder!

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    You know whats even funnier, is that if we were all subject to the kinds of background investigations people are saying the Pats should have done on AH, and that if what was in those background investigations actually prevented people from getting jobs, unemployment would be at 50% or higher. LOTS of people did STUPID things as teenagers. How many people got in fights, smoked weed (or used other drugs), or may have stolen something? How many of them actually straightened out and went on to be law abiding, productive, non-violent members of our society. The Pats made their decisions based on the totality of the information they had, background checks, interviews with AH, teammates, coaches etc., they knew he wasn't a choir boy. And thought there was enough there to take a chance (what 4th round pick isn't a chance) that he would make the right decisions and do the right things with is life once he got to the NFL. Dieon Branch considered him (actually still considers him) a great friend, teammate, and person. AH apparently fooled a lot of people with his behavior for the 3 years he was with the Patriots, but his actions were his and his alone.


     

     

     

     




    get real. how many of us had been linked to murders and drivebys by age 17? i'm going to take a wild guess and assume he didnt start acting out at that level at age17.. a kid may break in and steal stuff, do some drugs, or have gal issues... its ridiculous to compare anyone with hern as a norm! this is like a 911 error.. all the signs were there but everyone just ignored it. it has to b fixed so a loony sociopath like him never again slips thru!

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There was nothing linking Hernandez to drive-bys and murders at age 17 when the Patriots drafted him at age 20, NOTHING. From the ESPN article TFB12 posted, most accounts had him to be a pretty well behaved teenager until his father died when he was 16. He had a few issues in college, they are documented. I'm willing to bet that 25% of all NFL players have some kind of documented issue from their younger days, should none of them have been drafted? How about Honey Badger? He's had a very troubled past, yet you were one of those saying the Pats should go get him. There was nothing in AH's documented behavior at age 20 that would have led people to believe he was headed to be the alleged killer is is now suspected to be. As I said the Patriots knew he wasn't a perfect, model citizen when they drafted him. They expected he would mature into a mature, productive adult (as most of the people who do those stupid things at a young age do), it looks like he chose a different path.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/aaron-hernandez-former-new-england-patriots-tight-end-charged-murder-moved-to-new-cell-070213?sa=t&fd=R&usg=AFQjCNFqzRAB7efN1ZnaMUJQui8MRkXv6w

     

    ur in denial.. any elementary security or background checker would have found out. did u not follow or read the stuff from yesterday? the police reports in both incidents specifically mentioned urban meyer and hernandez by name. meyer was told and he was to take care of it internally (specifically the bar incident). bb and urban talk and talked regularly. u telling if bb wanted to know he couldnt have asked him? u telling me urban never let him in?

    we can engage in public facts and info, bb doesnt have to. innuendo is good enough. he doesnt have to wait for someone to b convicted. there was enough smoke on him. again, got no beef with us taking a shot with a 4th rounder. my beef is with resigning him without any common sense security check. this guy was hiding in broad daylight. never hung with any pats, who r his friends? security 101 could have confirmed that!

    keeps piling on. they found his hoodie and clothes. has a side apartment (flop).. a relative wanted for questioning suspiciously dies yesterday in a car accident.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    My posting above had nothing to do with him resigning last year. It was all in reference to the information they had available at the time they drafted him. I actually started a thread last week that said their head of security or his staff is responsible for not looking into him more closely before they reupped him last year, and I got roasted for that. In any case, if there was the plethora of information out there that he was some kind of monster, where were the articles last year when he signed the contract. I follow the team pretty closely on the web, I don't recall seeing a single article referencing the 'easily found background check' information you mention that would show what an evil person AH was and that the Pats should not resign him. I don't recall a single article mentioning a police officer or dective coming forward and saying 'I don't know what the Pats are thinking, that guy is bad news'. I don't recall a single thread on this message board that a single poster came out and said 'bad signing'. Here is what Kraft and Belichick had to say, I would assume that they had done their due diligence at this point.

    Upon agreeing to the extension, Hernandez made a charitable gesture that Patriots owner Robert Kraft appreciated.

    "One of the touching moments since I've known the team -- knowing that this is our charitable gala tonight -- Aaron came into my office, a little teary-eyed and presented me with a check for $50,000 to go to Myra Kraft Giving Back Fund," Kraft said. "I said 'Aaron, you don't have to do this, you've already got your contract.' And he said 'No, it makes me feel good and I want to do it.' "

    To Kraft, Hernandez's donation reflected the organization's desire to have players give back after receiving financial security by playing in the NFL.

    "That made me feel good because part of the thing that we learned early on is that we have a lot of young men who come into this business, and they come from humble financial homes, and part of what we try to do is make them understand is that there is a psychic income involved in giving back both your time and your financial resources, if you can do that," he said.

    "And I sensed that he was touched in doing that. We didn't request it, it's something that he decided. And to flip the switch from living modesty to all of the sudden having a lot of income, I think we have to work real hard to help our young men adjust to that."

    Coach Bill Belichick seemed pleased with the developments as well.

    "Any contract that we agree to is one that we're in support of," he said Monday when asked about the contract. "If we agree to a contract on a player, then we're in support of that player, the length of the contract, the amount that we're paying him, and all the other things that go with the contract. We wouldn't do it if we weren't in support of it, as an organization, me personally, all of the above. Again, we wouldn't have done it if we weren't happy with it. Glad it worked out."

    Belichick also lauded Hernandez's improvement and versatility.

    "Aaron has improved a lot," Belichick said. "He's worked hard, he's improved a lot in all phases of the game: passing game, running game, protection and his overall versatility. He's done a good job for us."

    That hardly sounds like thay had any inkling that he was going to do the things he has been alleged to do.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: the AH serial CRIME thread

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    look, in the coming weeks, there will be 8-10 more instances of AH and crimes committed. Police reports were filed.

    The NFL and the PAts have access to the FBI as well as local and state police for back ground checks...many will sit here with their heads in the sand and say the Pats didnt know anything, how could they know anything, why would they know anything? Others will blame the players agent.

    At the end of the day, there were many, many warning signs that AH was a very risky signing...as I mentioned before, go ahead and roll the dice with a mid round draft choice. But to build an offense around such a questionable character, and give him a $40M contract is a case of the Pats not doing their homework, or looking the other way if they did do their homework...

     



    I highly doubt they have access to FBI background checks, the FBI doesn't background anyone without their consent. Plus it would cost upwards of 50k per person to do so. I think the FBI has better things to do.

     
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