The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Brad, Last year we played each others division - I guess the AFC South is tougher than the East and we played the NFC West while you played the South.  Yeah you had it tougher last year This year we play the west and you play the North - Will Pitt be any good?  Is Cincy legit?  The browns??  We are probably even here - you may have it a little tougher.  We play the NFC East and you play the North (??) - we have tougher sched here.  Sounds like the scheds are pretty even.
    Posted by underdoggggg



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime : Oh, I have checked the numbers.  In 2009 Kraft pocketed about 30 million of the money under the cap.In 2008, it was 24 million in 2007, they were close to the cap in 2006, by coincidence, they reached the superbowl - hmmm. 
    Posted by PhatRex

    No he didn't.  The numbers are at www.Patscap.com and some other places.

    2009- $2 million under
    2008- $2.85 million under
    2007- $536 under
    2006- $0.76 under

    That's just the money that could be confirmed.  Usually there's some money not reported.  The Pats spend every bit of the cap every year. 

    I've said it before, but you don't have to like the way the Pats spend their money but it is a fact that they spend the money. 

    Smorgan, The Pats have been the most succesful team in the salary cap era so maybe, possibly, you have no idea how to run a team.  Your ideas of team building have been tried by Washington, and a bunch of other bottom feeders.  Let's not follow an idea proven not to work.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    Smorgan86 has got a point.  This team has some serious holes right now in the starting lineup and not a lot of quality depth even in the positions where the starters are good.  Watching this Giants game I don't know how any objective observer can conclude otherwise.  


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatrickMcFinn69. Show PatrickMcFinn69's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    agreed 1,000,000%
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Not that I'm against the BB "value" approach as a basic strategy. I'm not. You can't overspend for everybody. BUT, I think they have taken it too far too often. This team in my opinion didin't and hasn't for a number of years, needed a ground up rebuild. Stockpiling picks and bring in value FA's is great when you need many pieces to the puzzle to even compete at a high level. I think this team has been 2 or three players away from again being a 12 plus win team. The Pats and BB has had PLENTY of draft picks in the deck to either move up in the draft or trade for a few of these players to plug the few holes we have. Instead they have continued to take the approach of moving out of every draft slot and grabbing as many bodies as they can, throw them against the wall to see what "sticks". Meanwhile, every year Brady is a year older. Worry about the full blown rebuild when Brady is done and gone. How is it that we can't manage to pull in ONE shutdown corner or ONE edge pass rusher with all the cards we've had to play? They've had money, picks and players to leverage and they choose to take the "value" approach that MAY get us 9 wins this season. That in my opinion is a WASTE for a team with TB
    Posted by smorgan86


    That is absolutely spot on. Pats need to take advantage of having a HOF QB whilst they have him. At the rate they are going the D will be fully rebuilt and ready to challenge the year after Brady retires or is well past his prime. Last year and this year the Pats needed to bring in quality FA's to help the D but they haven't. They have won 3 with him but he has another 2 in him but not with the shocking D that BB is strangely putting out each week.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Smorgan86 has got a point.  This team has some serious holes right now in the starting lineup and not a lot of quality depth even in the positions where the starters are good.  Watching this Giants game I don't know how any objective observer can conclude otherwise.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    Yep, he has a point.  It's on his head.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime : As official as some Mexican dude's unofficial Patriots cap page seems, I went ahead and used the numbers listed by USA Today, ESPN, and some place called NFL.com, whatever that is.  But hey, if Miguel is your guy, that's cool.  
    Posted by PhatRex

    Your a liar, post a link.  I also got the numbers for 06, and 07 from ESPN. 

    I don't really have enough time to explain the salary cap to you today but here's a short summary.  The numbers have to be taken at the right time.  For instance, right now all the teams have a 75 man roster, so the cap number will not mean anything (if there were a cap this year).  If the number is taken prior to someone signing a big contract then the number will be off by millions. The numbers should be taken after the trade deadline.

    Unless the Pats tell a news source, they are just guessing by adding up the contracts which can be highly innacurate.  Reiss on ESPN usually gets the number from the team at the end of the year and it is always maxed out. 

    Miguel takes the time to meticulously add up every contract and every bonus and has been within 2% as long as he's been doing it.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeanKnowes. Show SeanKnowes's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    Having lots of draft picks is good (in good yrs). Are they looking two yrs out at today's underclassmen? I hope so! FA can be good and they seem to have found the cast off gems, Moss, Dillon, to name a few. But, there have been notable busts too. (Adalius, what happened?)

    But it does seem the team is in a holding pattern. It seems like they need two more quality WRs, a top corner, and additional LBs. I think you will have to pay the $$ for the CB. WRs, well, it depends. There's a lot of em out there, and a good QB makes them better. LBs, you can scheme too. DEs though, make everyone better! Sign Brady as quickly as possible. Without him. Forget it!

    Sometimes it seems the team is chooses each contract and player on their own. Seems like they were better at devising a "team" a few yrs ago. Is this because BB is too busy doing everything? Was that him getting team water and taking team photos the other day? I don't know. This yr they probably get in playoffs and One and Done it. Someone posted earlier if in 2000, they told you they'd have 3 SBs and all this success? Oh yeah take it! But there is a window and once it closes, you might be in the dark for a while. Right 49's? Maybe the last decades way of doing things, needs to change...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    The Pats have taken advantage of a HOf QB. They got him Moss, Welker, Watson, Gronkoski, Mankins and a host of other O players. The d is lacking IMHO, or just hasn't jelled yet. I don't expect the D to necessarily be great but I certainly expect then to get better. If wecan get a little better corner play then we can give up a bit of the missing OLB play. We may have to go the way of Manning. Score quick and hope the D holds em once or twice a game.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    Here's a possible way to assess the relative quality of your team.  How many of your players are on their second contract with the Pats.  Specifically on Defense?  Of those, how many start?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    That formula does not account for free agents.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Not that I'm against the BB "value" approach as a basic strategy. I'm not. You can't overspend for everybody. BUT, I think they have taken it too far too often. This team in my opinion didin't and hasn't for a number of years, needed a ground up rebuild. Stockpiling picks and bring in value FA's is great when you need many pieces to the puzzle to even compete at a high level. I think this team has been 2 or three players away from again being a 12 plus win team. The Pats and BB has had PLENTY of draft picks in the deck to either move up in the draft or trade for a few of these players to plug the few holes we have. Instead they have continued to take the approach of moving out of every draft slot and grabbing as many bodies as they can, throw them against the wall to see what "sticks". Meanwhile, every year Brady is a year older. Worry about the full blown rebuild when Brady is done and gone. How is it that we can't manage to pull in ONE shutdown corner or ONE edge pass rusher with all the cards we've had to play? They've had money, picks and players to leverage and they choose to take the "value" approach that MAY get us 9 wins this season. That in my opinion is a WASTE for a team with TB
    Posted by smorgan86


         I share your frustration. But, has BB's so-called "value approach" really been a failure? 

         In 2005, the Patriots' scrapped "value" and traded a 3rd round draft choice to the Arizona Cardinals for Dwayne "The Human Torch" Starks. They also spent money, outbidding the KC Chiefs to acquire LB Monty Beisel. At the time of these trades, most Pats' fans nodded approvingly. The feeling was that Starks was a solid NFL CB, who had lost his way playing for a bad team. Beisel  was thought to have the requisite size and speed to become another Mike Vrabel. Unfortunately, BB rolled snake-eyes with both those guys...and it was perhaps the prime reason why the Patriots came up short that year.

         In 2006, BB was true to his valuistic ways, as the Pats let both of their starting WRs, Deion Branch and David Givens, leave more or less through free agency...with the Pats' obtaining a #1 pick in the 2007 draft for Branch. They also let go of the aging Willie McGinest, and hall of fame PK, Benedict Adam Vinatieri. Though they were heavily criticized for these moves, only biased officiating and untimely injuries to key defensive personnel kept the Patriots from winning another SB. 

         In 2007, the Pats appeared to set aside their "value approach" in that, instead of moving to stockpile draft choices, rebuilt their WR corp by trading draft choices for WRs Randy Moss and Wes Welker...and signing free agents Donte' Stallworth and Kelly Washington. All four were great contributors in 2007, as Welker and Moss were pro-bowlers, Stallworth (along with 2005 free agent find Jabar Gaffney) were superb #3 and #4 WRs, and Washington made his mark as a special teams' terror.These great moves led to a perfect season. and a SB trip.

         After suffering the most devastating defeat in the history of sports in the 2007, last minute 17-14 SB loss, the team, and the franchise, has never been the same. 

         During pre-season in 2008, the Pats appeared to be sleep-walking. There's no doubt in my mind that the teams' psyche had been shattered. I am a believer that negative thoughts and a sense of doom only serve to foster more negativity, or, bad luck, if you will. Brady goes down with a knee injury in game #1...and the rest is history.

         Presently, the Pats do appear to be gradually weaning their way back to "mental health". Though there are still some lingering ill effects from the devastating SB loss, old age, and yes, some poor drafting decisions (Chad Jackson, Shawn Crable, Terrence Wheatley, and, to a lesser degree, Laurence Maroney and Ben Watson), have taken their toll.

         Some will criticize the Richard Seymour deal. But, it was a great move, as having Seymour still on the team would not have taken the Pats to the SB last year...or this year. There is some necessary rebuilding taking place. Building through the draft is the right way to go. The Pats will, in time, be back.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    That formula does not account for free agents.
    Posted by Philskiw


    It does if a free agent is has reupped his contract with the pats. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    Boy, the Colts look lousy this year.  After Manning goes down with his WAAAAAY overdue knee injury, they will not recover.  Terrible.  It's just soooooooooo tragic.  Maybe the NFL can "emphasize" a rule that the Colts win every game, no matter WHAT the score is!

    I just though since UD is always here, we should talk about the Colts some.  That IS his team, after all, and he must want to discuss them.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Boy, the Colts look lousy this year.  After Manning goes down with his WAAAAAY overdue knee injury, they will not recover.  Terrible.  It's just soooooooooo tragic.  Maybe the NFL can "emphasize" a rule that the Colts win every game, no matter WHAT the score is! I just though since UD is always here, we should talk about the Colts some.  That IS his team, after all, and he must want to discuss them.
    Posted by Davedsone


         Come on, Dave! I can't stand Peyton and the Colts, too...but I wouldn't wish a knee injury on anybody.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Here's a possible way to assess the relative quality of your team.  How many of your players are on their second contract with the Pats.  Specifically on Defense?  Of those, how many start?
    Posted by underdoggggg


    This is such a great way of assessing the quality of a team.  Hopefully they scrap the old method of determining team quality by playing games and having a playoff system and a Super Bowl. 

    At the beginning of each season, after the roster cuts we can add up the number of players starting on their second contract and crown that team the Champion and the best team in the NFL!  And injuries would go down alot without having to play any actual games to find out who the best team is! 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime : This is such a great way of assessing the quality of a team.  Hopefully they scrap the old method of determining team quality by playing games and having a playoff system and a Super Bowl.  At the beginning of each season, after the roster cuts we can add up the number of players starting on their second contract and crown that team the Champion and the best team in the NFL!  And injuries would go down alot without having to play any actual games to find out who the best team is! 
    Posted by shenanigan


    It never gets old smacking Underdogged around. I normally don't kick people while they're down but in his case I make an exception.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    Cute Shen.  But then again it really doesn't refute my point.  Take a look at the pats in say 04-05 and see how many "reupped" take a look today.  I'll bet you'll find more on the offensive side than defensive side. 

    Belichick hasn't figured out/found his talent on the defensive side which is why he keeps making changes.  The bad news is that the D is what won your teams to those superbowls.  Now thats gone.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    TC - You dream of being good enough to "smack me around".  Dream on boy, dream on. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Cute Shen.  But then again it really doesn't refute my point.  Take a look at the pats in say 04-05 and see how many "reupped" take a look today.  I'll bet you'll find more on the offensive side than defensive side.  Belichick hasn't figured out/found his talent on the defensive side which is why he keeps making changes.  The bad news is that the D is what won your teams to those superbowls.  Now thats gone.
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Tom Brady 735 yards 6 tds 1 interception 96 QB rating in 3 Superbowls 2x MVP.

    Smack Smack


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    UNDERDOGGGG.  YOU  DON'T BELONG HERE, ITS A PATRIOTS FAN SITE.  GO HOME.  WWW.INDYSTAR.COM
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

    In Response to Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime:
    Cute Shen.  But then again it really doesn't refute my point.  Take a look at the pats in say 04-05 and see how many "reupped" take a look today.  I'll bet you'll find more on the offensive side than defensive side.  Belichick hasn't figured out/found his talent on the defensive side which is why he keeps making changes.  The bad news is that the D is what won your teams to those superbowls.  Now thats gone.
    Posted by underdoggggg

    It most certainly does refute your point.  I will slow it down, draw it out and attempt to draw a more direct point of logic for you. 

    Assessing the quality of a team by counting the number of 2nd year contracts is absurd.  The quality of a team is measured by wins, and how close they get to winning the SB.  Any team could sign it's mediocre players to a 2nd contract and go on to be terrible.  Why not count the number of players with blonde hair to assess the quality of your team?  It's just as asinine.

    Cost benefit analysis?  If a younger player beats out the older player it doesn't mean tho older player wasn't good.  If a free agent is better than another player for the same price it doesn't make sense to not sign him.  If a player can be signed for 1/10th of another player and is nearly as good it makes sense to sign him.

    Any attempt to assess a teams personnel moves without taking into account how well the team plays is just silly.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: The "value" approach is squandering years of Brady's prime

      The Patriots are the toughest team in the NFL to make .
     
     
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