The changes HAVE begun.

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    no doubt they will be changing their ways down there!  they half to after this!  

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    red flag photo: red flag fund RedSticker.jpg


    "The wo                     
                             

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to NOISE's comment:

     

    no doubt they will be changing their ways down there!  they half to after this!  

     




    Change their ways? What ways?  This could have happened to any NFL team. IN fact, it has.  Many teams have not seen off field thuggery coming.

     

    Ray Lewis, Rae Carruth, etc. Even that Williams CB from Denver who was gunned down was probably involved in some kind of gang related activity.  Sean Taylor.

    This is more about what the culture is in terms of the pool in which NFL teams pull from, not pretending NE did not have a dossier on Aaron Hernandez.

    They did.  Can we get past this stupidity that this possiblity of murdering someone could have been seen before it happened?

    This is a very unique situation.  Don't let the media tell you it's some sinister scheme like they sold to the public with Spygate because they don't like BB.

    There are some things they can probably employ in terms of maybe hiring people to interview these prospects, like licensed social workers or psychologists. Stuff like that. But, no organization should have its feet held to the fire with a really rare and shocking thing like this. It makes no sense.

    Many of these minority NCAA prospects come from broken homes, which can clearly lead to problems. But, that would like 60% of the league or whatever the number is.

    Scapegoating the Pats because it's convenient for the media isn't going to address ways to minimize the risk.



    I think he was talking about ESPN Russ

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    "In all seriousness, I think this is more about more sinister activity like who you run with, not stupid mistakes you made as an immature kid."

    Agreed. I suspect the focus will be on guns and related violence. 

    Also true this won't just affect the Pats, no team in the NFL wants that kind of thing going down. 

    Actually I agree with the entire post. 

         
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    the elephant in the room, that the media will pick away at while the Hern case lingers for the next few months, is that prior to this latest Hern crime, the Pats did EVERYTHING correctly. They did their pre draft homework, analyzed the tests, spoke with the Fla police, spoke with Meyer, and before the resigned him, they spoke with team mates, spoke with the BPD, etc, etc.

    the elephant in the room is that the Pats knew much, much more than "we were duped" leads one to believe.

    so the Pats can speak to doing everything to improve to insure this not happen again, but at the end of the day, regardless of the intel gathered, if BB decides to sign a guy, he will.

     




    Give me a f-ing break!! What they (DID) know was that he had a bad past, and they took a chance. They (THOUGHT) that their enviroment would make this kid realize he needs to wake up and fly straight....and he blew it. They got burned. They took a big chance...and they made a big mistake. Stop trying to make it look like they knew he wouldn't work out and become a murderer.

    In the history of the league, there haven't been a lot of mudering thugs. The Pats got really unlucky with this one. ALL TEAMS TAKE RISKS. Every post you make has a tone of blaming the Pats....we get it. Maybe someday you'll realize it was a random incident that is rare, and there isn't a single team in the league that could have predicted this outcome.

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    the elephant in the room, that the media will pick away at while the Hern case lingers for the next few months, is that prior to this latest Hern crime, the Pats did EVERYTHING correctly. They did their pre draft homework, analyzed the tests, spoke with the Fla police, spoke with Meyer, and before the resigned him, they spoke with team mates, spoke with the BPD, etc, etc.

    the elephant in the room is that the Pats knew much, much more than "we were duped" leads one to believe.

    so the Pats can speak to doing everything to improve to insure this not happen again, but at the end of the day, regardless of the intel gathered, if BB decides to sign a guy, he will.

     




    So for the record are you saying Kraft and BB were not telling the truth?

    They asked BB directly:

    Transcript

    Q. Did the organization have any idea about this double homicide in 2012 that he was connected [with] or the shooting in Miami?

    Belichick: No.

    Q. For clarification, someone asked about your knowledge of the 2012 double homicide and the incident in Miami and your answer was ‘no.’ Was that no, you can’t comment or no, you didn’t know?

    Belichick: That would be no.

    Are you accusing Kraft & BB of being liars?

     

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Are you accusing Kraft & BB of being liars?




    No, he's just trolling for reactions & responses. He got want he asked for....a statement...and a great statement at that. Almost everyone I heard talking about it in the media thinks BB did a great job, and went beyond the call of duty.

    What a shocker that rkarp still isn't happy with it. I honestly can't imagine going through life never being satisfied. Enjoy miseryville dude.....

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to tanbass's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    Are you accusing Kraft & BB of being liars?

     




    No, he's just trolling for reactions & responses. He got want he asked for....a statement...and a great statement at that. Almost everyone I heard talking about it in the media thinks BB did a great job, and went beyond the call of duty.

     

    What a shocker that rkarp still isn't happy with it. I honestly can't imagine going through life never being satisfied. Enjoy miseryville dude.....



    Seems to me he just doesn't like BB or the Krafts for whatever reason. The tenor of all his posts seem to carry some type of animosity towards the orginization.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    I make a concerted effort to be rational and balanced in my view of the Pats (not easy for a diehard Pats fan).  Similarly, I make a concerted effort to be civil in what I post here. I must confess, however, that I am having difficulty remaining civil in responding to rkarp in this thread.

    rkarp, you profess to be a media professional - I take you at your word.  But I'm forced to ask what exactly happened in the past that has compromised your objectivity?  Were you the guy BB threw out of the way when he was walking across the field to shake Mangini's hand? Did BB humiliate you in a press conference once? Did Robert Kraft not include you in some media event at some point and hurt your feelings? Did some contract security guard not recognize your media credential?  I mean, seriously, what??  I ask because your post above is probably one of the most cynical and unprofessional assertions I've ever seen supposedly coming from somone in your profession.  

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to tanbass' comment:

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

     

    Are you accusing Kraft & BB of being liars?

     

     




    No, he's just trolling for reactions & responses. He got want he asked for....a statement...and a great statement at that. Almost everyone I heard talking about it in the media thinks BB did a great job, and went beyond the call of duty.

     

     

    What a shocker that rkarp still isn't happy with it. I honestly can't imagine going through life never being satisfied. Enjoy miseryville dude.....

     



    I posted after yesterdays press conference that I thought BB gave his best press conference, maybe ever. Look back at yesterdays postings.

     

    To sit here and say the Pats security and personel staff dropped the ball might not be correct.

    There is a story here, not initiated by me. Rather than be mad at me that people are looking into the story, why dont you wait for the facts to all come out, if there are any?



    Urban Meyer tweeted a couple of weeks ago that AH's problems at UF were "relatively minor". Meyer said that Hernandez' number of failed drug tests were "exaggerated".   Hernandez' college coach said that he was involved in a failed test for pot and an argument in a bar.  He said he played there for 3 years and was a good player.

    You choose to ignore what Meyer tweeted and have said that Meyer knew about Hernandez involvement in a 2007 shooting and must have told the Pats brass about it.  Com'on man!

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to tanbass' comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Are you accusing Kraft & BB of being liars?

     

     

     



    Urban Meyer tweeted a couple of weeks ago that AH's problems at UF were "relatively minor". Meyer said that Hernandez' number of failed drug tests were "exaggerated".   Hernandez' college coach said that he was involved in a failed test for pot and an argument in a bar.  He said he played there for 3 years and was a good player.

     

     

     

    You choose to ignore what Meyer tweeted and have said that Meyer knew about Hernandez involvement in a 2007 shooting and must have told the Pats brass about it.  Com'on man!

     

     



    it has been reported in numerous places including the WSJ, ESPN and the NYT, that Hern was implicated in a shooting of 2 people in Fla along with Reggie Nelson. (the Pounceys were also there). Police reports were filed. The victim identified Hern. Herns name was on the police report (copies of the report were shown on ESPN).

     

     

    10 days after the shooting, the victim dropped the charges. The Univ of Fla told the police department that they would internally handle any punishment of the players.

    1) if the Univ of Fla was handling punishment, did Meyer know about it (4 of his players were involved)

    2) if there was a police report filed, and the WSJ, NYT and ESPN found it, was the report available to NFL teams when Hern was drafted?   

    Repeat, I am not calling anyone a liar, but speculation has always been that Meyer did not leave UFL for his health, he was forced out, even though he won championships...

     



    A couple of things:  The police report said the players were questioned as witnesses.   No UF player was charged.

     

    Second was the point of my post.  You previously said that Meyer must have told the Pats about Hernandez problems.  My position is that what Meyer is saying publicly is what he told the Pats, even if Meyer doesn't believe it himself.

    Btw, I love the WSJ sports section :)

     
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    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     why dont you wait for the facts to all come out, if there are any?




    Hmmm...shouldn't you do the same before painting the Pats organization in a negative light on a daily basis?

    You got your statement...and it was a good one. Yet, here you are speculating that there is a bigtime cover-up with the entire drafting and back ground checking of AH.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I make a concerted effort to be rational and balanced in my view of the Pats (not easy for a diehard Pats fan).  Similarly, I make a concerted effort to be civil in what I post here. I must confess, however, that I am having difficulty remaining civil in responding to rkarp in this thread.

    rkarp, you profess to be a media professional - I take you at your word.  But I'm forced to ask what exactly happened in the past that has compromised your objectivity?  Were you the guy BB threw out of the way when he was walking across the field to shake Mangini's hand? Did BB humiliate you in a press conference once? Did Robert Kraft not include you in some media event at some point and hurt your feelings? Did some contract security guard not recognize your media credential?  I mean, seriously, what??  I ask because your post above is probably one of the most cynical and unprofessional assertions I've ever seen supposedly coming from somone in your profession.  

     



    ATJ. I am not a journalist. I am in video. Big difference. Unfortunately, this job is a lot of waiting around. Covering a team like the Pats, there are numerous other people waiting around, and the majority of them are journalists. We all shoot the breeze when we are not working. I also work for an organization that has the personel to dig into stories. So people, rightfully so, are digging.

     

    If you were indeed objective as you say, how can you not see the discrepencies?

    What are they digging?

    1) Urban Meyer knew about the shootings in Fla. The Fla police knew about the shootings. It is theoretically impossible pre draft that the Pats did not question Meyer or the Fla police about Hern. Either the police and Meyer did not divulge the information, or you can then draw your own conclusions

    2) The Pats employ and ex BPD officer and an ex Mass constable sherriff. Either they did not ask the BPD about Hern, or the BPD with held that info (police talk off the record more than athletes and journalists), or you can draw your own conclusions

    3) The NFL has a team of ex FBI agents on staff, with its primary responsabilities drugs (not PEDS) and gang affiliations....either the Pats did not ask questions to the NFL, or you can draw your own conclusions...

    I am not labeling anyone a liar. Listening to others discuss the issues, one plus one do not add up...and people are checking it out, thinking there is more to it.

    Simple as that.

    I was not shoved out of the way by BB when he had "the handshake"...but I was on the Reiss/Borges along with Brandt live feed in on OTL last night. I also ended a very long day/night at the Joe Maddon press conference. I didnt see most of the game, but apparently David Price is back to being dominant.



    Thanks for the reply.  To be clear, I never claimed objectivity.  What I did assert is that I attempt to be rational and balanced.  As diehard a Pats fan as I am, I can't really be objective.  

    With respect to your points, the Pats may very well have known about the Florida issues.  I don't believe that either BB or Kraft denied that they did.  BB alluded to making assessments based on info that is available from a variety of sources.  The question that BB responded to yesterday, if I recall correctly, was the double homicide last year and I do not believe that the Pats were aware of any suspected Hern involvement.

    If the NFL does in fact employ ex-FBI agents who track down gang affiliations I seriously doubt that they would have waited for an inquiry from the Pats before sharing that info, if they knew about Hern's gang relationships.  

    Truly, you've drawn your own conclusions (as we all do) based largely on speculation (some of us do, some of us don't).  In my opinion, for the most part, BB was being candid yesterday.   

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: The changes HAVE begun.

    I think the underlying statement is:  "in the future, never draft the thugs that U. Meyers protects and recommends". 

     
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