The Cold Hard Facts

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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    Great Post!

     
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    All I hear is IF, IF, IF's! Nobody here has a crystal ball that will tell us the future. If Danny stays healthy all season and develop's chemistry with TB, it will be a smart business decision. How great was Welker before he came to the Pat's, and how great was Branch after he left the Pat's? I hate when people here automatically assume the Amendola will be injured most of the seasonn. There have been alot of great players who were injury prone for a few years and came back and had great careers. Heck, I remember all the "experts" at ESPN were laughing at us for wasting a 1st Rd pick on BB when he came over from the Jets. "Look at his past history, look at what he did to the Brown's". If people here want to look at the worst that can happen, then go ahead. I'm going to give Danny a chance and wish him well.

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to NoahJustin's comment:

    All I hear is IF, IF, IF's! Nobody here has a crystal ball that will tell us the future. If Danny stays healthy all season and develop's chemistry with TB, it will be a smart business decision. How great was Welker before he came to the Pat's, and how great was Branch after he left the Pat's? I hate when people here automatically assume the Amendola will be injured most of the seasonn. There have been alot of great players who were injury prone for a few years and came back and had great careers. Heck, I remember all the "experts" at ESPN were laughing at us for wasting a 1st Rd pick on BB when he came over from the Jets. "Look at his past history, look at what he did to the Brown's". If people here want to look at the worst that can happen, then go ahead. I'm going to give Danny a chance and wish him well.



    All you have to go it past history and past history says he's more likely to be injured then to stay healhty. For example, over the last 2 season he played in 12 games but only finished 8! He barely finished 2/3rds of the games he played in and only played in just over a 1/3rd of possible games. It's a much higher chance he'll be injured then he'll play at this point. The if he'll play is a bigger question makr then if he'll get injured

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

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    All I hear is IF, IF, IF's! Nobody here has a crystal ball that will tell us the future. If Danny stays healthy all season and develop's chemistry with TB, it will be a smart business decision. How great was Welker before he came to the Pat's, and how great was Branch after he left the Pat's? I hate when people here automatically assume the Amendola will be injured most of the seasonn. There have been alot of great players who were injury prone for a few years and came back and had great careers. Heck, I remember all the "experts" at ESPN were laughing at us for wasting a 1st Rd pick on BB when he came over from the Jets. "Look at his past history, look at what he did to the Brown's". If people here want to look at the worst that can happen, then go ahead. I'm going to give Danny a chance and wish him well.

     



    All you have to go it past history and past history says he's more likely to be injured then to stay healhty. For example, over the last 2 season he played in 12 games but only finished 8! He barely finished 2/3rds of the games he played in and only played in just over a 1/3rd of possible games. It's a much higher chance he'll be injured then he'll play at this point. The if he'll play is a bigger question makr then if he'll get injured

     



    Again, you can always look at statistics a certain way and present them in a manner than supports whatever you agenda is.

    Amendola had two freak injuries on a hard field in St. Louis. He dislocated his elbow, and that was simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everything I've read says that ANY player... yes, even someone like Welker, would've suffered the same injury in that situation... again, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The second injury was a broken collarbone which I'm less familiar with. But again, this is a broken bone, not a tweaked hammy or a sprain or strain. When those start happening more often, let me know. Until then I have little reason to be concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

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    I think it's clear that BB/Pats chose Amedola over Welker.  They signed a guy with more question marks to a long term deal and let the guy who is a sure thing depart over a what ended up to be a no-brainer contract.  It seems that the personnel brain trust expect Amedola to come in here and match WW's output, which is a gamble.  Not sure I buy letting Wes walk over a few dollars, but at least they got somebody with upside to replace Wes.

    And I don't want to hear "what have we won with WW?" or "he dropped the ball when it mattered".  Without him, I am not so sure the Pats have a shot at two more superbowls over the last few years.   

     

     

     



    pretty much this. We signed a guy we are all hoping will at least match Welkers production. So at best we are hoping for a wash here. Chances are we are looking closer to 90% of Welkers production IFhuge if he's healthy. I could understand if we gave him less and went out and used the savings to improve the D but they gave him the same money essentially.  So you are taking a gamble on a wash for the same money? How much sense does that make?

     

     



    90% is being very very very very generous. That's about 94 catches and 1100 yards based on WW avgs. This is where I feel people are way too quick to forget the monumental impact welker had on this team. The production was mind blowing. Sb wins or not--- we got there--- twice. He was a major reason why.  75% of WW numbers is nearly all pro caliber-80/900+. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    dreighver -

    A couple things

    1) I don't think you can discount the injury prone so quickly. The Pats have an artifical field (though a slightly more advanced one) but those injures weren't caused by the field. For some reason injury prone players are injury prone for a reason. It doesn't matter if it's broken bones, muscles, or seperated shoulders for some reason when a player has the bug they get injured a lot and Amendola is injured a lot.

    2) You can't discount the chemistry. We can compare Welkers numbers (pre Pats) to Amendoal's all we want but Ocho had great numbers too before coming to the Pats. We have no clue what Amendola will proved coming to the Pats. At best things remain the same at worst Amendola provides what Ocho provided.

    3) We just lost our #1 receiver to our biggest threat in the conference over $1mil dollars. Think about that for a second. Imagine losing Seguin or Bergeron to Montreal for $1mil or Pedroia to the Yankees for $1mil. It's not like they were miles apart we are talking less then 1% of the cap difference to your biggest competition.

    4) We paid just as much for Amendola as we did for Welker so it's not like we even saved money to go out and be able to sign extra players. Honestly where are the needs being filled? DBs are flying off the market and the most we are hearing is about Washingtington?

    IF Amendola stays healthy he could be good (thats a gamble)

    IF he has similar chemistry to Brady he could replace Welker (that's a gamble)

    IF this was a cost savings move to add to the D I would understand (they didn't save money)

    IF this was to change the offensive philosphy I would understand (Amendola is the closest thing to Welker on the market)

    but all of the above aren't true. The truth is we just paid the same amount of money to the second option on the market for the next similar player.

    If Amendola was so much better then Welker then why didn't Den target him and why didn't the Pats sign him before waiting for Welker to decide?




    Good post PatsEng, and I agree with you.  This decision is a risk that has upside if it works out.  Chemistry is a big thing.  Before Lloyd came everyone was saying that since he was a Josh McD guy he should pick up the offense very quickly.  While he did have good numbers last season it took some time for him and TFB to get on the same page and it still didn't seem to work out as expected, so much so that Lloyd might not be here much longer.  Now they bring in a new guy to replace someone who had perfect chemistry with TFB and was still playing at a high level.  Really wished they would have addressed a problem area instead of an already perfectly fine part of the offense.

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to dreighver's comment:

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    All I hear is IF, IF, IF's! Nobody here has a crystal ball that will tell us the future. If Danny stays healthy all season and develop's chemistry with TB, it will be a smart business decision. How great was Welker before he came to the Pat's, and how great was Branch after he left the Pat's? I hate when people here automatically assume the Amendola will be injured most of the seasonn. There have been alot of great players who were injury prone for a few years and came back and had great careers. Heck, I remember all the "experts" at ESPN were laughing at us for wasting a 1st Rd pick on BB when he came over from the Jets. "Look at his past history, look at what he did to the Brown's". If people here want to look at the worst that can happen, then go ahead. I'm going to give Danny a chance and wish him well.

     



    All you have to go it past history and past history says he's more likely to be injured then to stay healhty. For example, over the last 2 season he played in 12 games but only finished 8! He barely finished 2/3rds of the games he played in and only played in just over a 1/3rd of possible games. It's a much higher chance he'll be injured then he'll play at this point. The if he'll play is a bigger question makr then if he'll get injured

     

     



    Again, you can always look at statistics a certain way and present them in a manner than supports whatever you agenda is.

     

    Amendola had two freak injuries on a hard field in St. Louis. He dislocated his elbow, and that was simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everything I've read says that ANY player... yes, even someone like Welker, would've suffered the same injury in that situation... again, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The second injury was a broken collarbone which I'm less familiar with. But again, this is a broken bone, not a tweaked hammy or a sprain or strain. When those start happening more often, let me know. Until then I have little reason to be concerned about his ability to stay healthy.



    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

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    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to NoahJustin's comment:

     

    All I hear is IF, IF, IF's! Nobody here has a crystal ball that will tell us the future. If Danny stays healthy all season and develop's chemistry with TB, it will be a smart business decision. How great was Welker before he came to the Pat's, and how great was Branch after he left the Pat's? I hate when people here automatically assume the Amendola will be injured most of the seasonn. There have been alot of great players who were injury prone for a few years and came back and had great careers. Heck, I remember all the "experts" at ESPN were laughing at us for wasting a 1st Rd pick on BB when he came over from the Jets. "Look at his past history, look at what he did to the Brown's". If people here want to look at the worst that can happen, then go ahead. I'm going to give Danny a chance and wish him well.


    All you have to go it past history and past history says he's more likely to be injured then to stay healhty. For example, over the last 2 season he played in 12 games but only finished 8! He barely finished 2/3rds of the games he played in and only played in just over a 1/3rd of possible games. It's a much higher chance he'll be injured then he'll play at this point. The if he'll play is a bigger question makr then if he'll get injured

     Again, you can always look at statistics a certain way and present them in a manner than supports whatever you agenda is.

     

    Amendola had two freak injuries on a hard field in St. Louis. He dislocated his elbow, and that was simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everything I've read says that ANY player... yes, even someone like Welker, would've suffered the same injury in that situation... again, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The second injury was a broken collarbone which I'm less familiar with. But again, this is a broken bone, not a tweaked hammy or a sprain or strain. When those start happening more often, let me know. Until then I have little reason to be concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

     


    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.

     



    Given what Amendola's injuries have been then the above would equally apply to Gronk, would it not?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

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    All I hear is IF, IF, IF's! Nobody here has a crystal ball that will tell us the future. If Danny stays healthy all season and develop's chemistry with TB, it will be a smart business decision. How great was Welker before he came to the Pat's, and how great was Branch after he left the Pat's? I hate when people here automatically assume the Amendola will be injured most of the seasonn. There have been alot of great players who were injury prone for a few years and came back and had great careers. Heck, I remember all the "experts" at ESPN were laughing at us for wasting a 1st Rd pick on BB when he came over from the Jets. "Look at his past history, look at what he did to the Brown's". If people here want to look at the worst that can happen, then go ahead. I'm going to give Danny a chance and wish him well.


    All you have to go it past history and past history says he's more likely to be injured then to stay healhty. For example, over the last 2 season he played in 12 games but only finished 8! He barely finished 2/3rds of the games he played in and only played in just over a 1/3rd of possible games. It's a much higher chance he'll be injured then he'll play at this point. The if he'll play is a bigger question makr then if he'll get injured

     Again, you can always look at statistics a certain way and present them in a manner than supports whatever you agenda is.

     

    Amendola had two freak injuries on a hard field in St. Louis. He dislocated his elbow, and that was simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everything I've read says that ANY player... yes, even someone like Welker, would've suffered the same injury in that situation... again, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The second injury was a broken collarbone which I'm less familiar with. But again, this is a broken bone, not a tweaked hammy or a sprain or strain. When those start happening more often, let me know. Until then I have little reason to be concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

     


    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.

     

     



    Given what Amendola's injuries have been then the above would equally apply to Gronk, would it not?

     



    Yes it would and hasn't he proved that to be true in his career so far? Random freak accidents that has kept him out or limited him in big games. His back, his ankle, his first broken arm, his second broken arm in a different location separate from the first one

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to dreighver's comment:


    Again, you can always look at statistics a certain way and present them in a manner than supports whatever you agenda is.

     

    Amendola had two freak injuries on a hard field in St. Louis. He dislocated his elbow, and that was simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everything I've read says that ANY player... yes, even someone like Welker, would've suffered the same injury in that situation... again, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The second injury was a broken collarbone which I'm less familiar with. But again, this is a broken bone, not a tweaked hammy or a sprain or strain. When those start happening more often, let me know. Until then I have little reason to be concerned about his ability to stay healthy.



    Playing 12 games in the last 2 years out of a possible 32 and you have little concern?  What?  Hey, some people are just accident prone, doesn't matter what the injury is.  He will be 28 this season, hasn't played much the last two seasons instead of having a body of work behind him at this point he has a body of injury filled seasons behind him.  Spin it anyway you want but the fact is the Pats replaced a perfectly healthy, productive, proven player that wouldn't have broke the bank like all thought he would, in a position that didn't need upgraded instead of improving a position that needed to be fixed.  Big gamble here and at this point of TFB's career a gamble isn't what you want to be taking.

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to dreighver's comment:

     


    Again, you can always look at statistics a certain way and present them in a manner than supports whatever you agenda is.

     

    Amendola had two freak injuries on a hard field in St. Louis. He dislocated his elbow, and that was simply a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Everything I've read says that ANY player... yes, even someone like Welker, would've suffered the same injury in that situation... again, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    The second injury was a broken collarbone which I'm less familiar with. But again, this is a broken bone, not a tweaked hammy or a sprain or strain. When those start happening more often, let me know. Until then I have little reason to be concerned about his ability to stay healthy.

     



    Playing 12 games in the last 2 years out of a possible 32 and you have little concern?  What?  Hey, some people are just accident prone, doesn't matter what the injury is.  He will be 28 this season, hasn't played much the last two seasons instead of having a body of work behind him at this point he has a body of injury filled seasons behind him.  Spin it anyway you want but the fact is the Pats replaced a perfectly healthy, productive, proven player that wouldn't have broke the bank like all thought he would, in a position that didn't need upgraded instead of improving a position that needed to be fixed.  Big gamble here and at this point of TFB's career a gamble isn't what you want to be taking.

     



    I don't want this guy playing against Pollard!!!! LMAO

     
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    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.


    Given what Amendola's injuries have been then the above would equally apply to Gronk, would it not?

     Yes it would and hasn't he proved that to be true in his career so far? Random freak accidents that has kept him out or limited him in big games. His back, his ankle, his first broken arm, his second broken arm in a different location separate from the first one



    I guess my next question then would be that given Gronk, Hernan and Amendola all seem to be 'injury prone' by that standard should we consider ourselves screwed from a passing game standpoint?  And I'm not trying to be flippant here.

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    If Welker's knee had gone out in week 2, as opposed to week 17 (in that game against the Texans), he would've missed a helluva lot of games too.

    Welker isn't made of steel himself. These are football players, injuries will happen. A lot of it is timing. But let's not sit here and pretend that Welker is incapable of getting injured, while Amendola is made of glass.

     
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    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.


    Given what Amendola's injuries have been then the above would equally apply to Gronk, would it not?

     Yes it would and hasn't he proved that to be true in his career so far? Random freak accidents that has kept him out or limited him in big games. His back, his ankle, his first broken arm, his second broken arm in a different location separate from the first one

     



    I guess my next question then would be that given Gronk, Hernan and Amendola all seem to be 'injury prone' by that standard should we consider ourselves screwed from a passing game standpoint?  And I'm not trying to be flippant here.

     



    Well I would until we know what Ballard can give. Look at it this way. If history continues the same way it has over the last 2 years then Lloyd is the only one who won't miss time at this point and Slater is your #2 WR. At some point Hern and Gronk won't be on the field at the same time and chances are at least 1 won't be in the post season. I'd say unless Ballard is perfectly recovered and they go out and sign a durable WR would you feel comfortable with this lineup? Let me put it this way, before last season would you have been comfortable replacing Welker with Edelman. I know Amendola is more talented then Edelman but injury wise would you have been comfort with that knowing past histories and think we could last an entire season without issues? We are paper thin at WR right now and thankfully thicker on TE but if Amendola gets injured yes I think we are screwed on this O. Maybe not reg season but once we get to the post season you are praying that Amendola, Hern, and Gronk stay healthy or you will see another score in the teens

     
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    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.


    Given what Amendola's injuries have been then the above would equally apply to Gronk, would it not?

     Yes it would and hasn't he proved that to be true in his career so far? Random freak accidents that has kept him out or limited him in big games. His back, his ankle, his first broken arm, his second broken arm in a different location separate from the first one

     



    I guess my next question then would be that given Gronk, Hernan and Amendola all seem to be 'injury prone' by that standard should we consider ourselves screwed from a passing game standpoint?  And I'm not trying to be flippant here.

     

     



    Well I would until we know what Ballard can give. Look at it this way. If history continues the same way it has over the last 2 years then Lloyd is the only one who won't miss time at this point and Slater is your #2 WR. At some point Hern and Gronk won't be on the field at the same time and chances are at least 1 won't be in the post season. I'd say unless Ballard is perfectly recovered and they go out and sign a durable WR would you feel comfortable with this lineup? Let me put it this way, before last season would you have been comfortable replacing Welker with Edelman. I know Amendola is more talented then Edelman but injury wise would you have been comfort with that knowing past histories and think we could last an entire season without issues? We are paper thin at WR right now and thankfully thicker on TE but if Amendola gets injured yes I think we are screwed on this O. Maybe not reg season but once we get to the post season you are praying that Amendola, Hern, and Gronk stay healthy or you will see another score in the teens

     



    Understood, and can't really find fault with the logic.  The key, and I think this is where we would both be in complete agreement, is that they bring in another wideout, preferably one that can stretch the field; perhaps two if there's cap room.

     
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    Injury prone is injury prone regardless of freak accident or not. I have no clue why it works that way but it does. You can go through history and pick out players that have careers riddled with freak accidents, one after the other. Seeing a guy who is injury prone and saying he'll be healthy is very short sighted.


    Given what Amendola's injuries have been then the above would equally apply to Gronk, would it not?

     Yes it would and hasn't he proved that to be true in his career so far? Random freak accidents that has kept him out or limited him in big games. His back, his ankle, his first broken arm, his second broken arm in a different location separate from the first one

     



    I guess my next question then would be that given Gronk, Hernan and Amendola all seem to be 'injury prone' by that standard should we consider ourselves screwed from a passing game standpoint?  And I'm not trying to be flippant here.

     

     



    Well I would until we know what Ballard can give. Look at it this way. If history continues the same way it has over the last 2 years then Lloyd is the only one who won't miss time at this point and Slater is your #2 WR. At some point Hern and Gronk won't be on the field at the same time and chances are at least 1 won't be in the post season. I'd say unless Ballard is perfectly recovered and they go out and sign a durable WR would you feel comfortable with this lineup? Let me put it this way, before last season would you have been comfortable replacing Welker with Edelman. I know Amendola is more talented then Edelman but injury wise would you have been comfort with that knowing past histories and think we could last an entire season without issues? We are paper thin at WR right now and thankfully thicker on TE but if Amendola gets injured yes I think we are screwed on this O. Maybe not reg season but once we get to the post season you are praying that Amendola, Hern, and Gronk stay healthy or you will see another score in the teens

     

     



    Understood, and can't really find fault with the logic.  The key, and I think this is where we would both be in complete agreement, is that they bring in another wideout, preferably one that can stretch the field; perhaps two if there's cap room.

     




    If the Pats had picked up one or two above average WRs before we picked up Danny i would have no problems with the Amendola signing.  But right now, all the Amendola signing did was replace Welker.  It didnt improve our team.  I hope that we bring in two more WRs that are below 30yo, can get open, and catch the ball.

     
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    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    In response to dreighver's comment:

    Now that the dust is settling after the Welker mayhem, I wanted to offer my opinion before I head off to bed.

    Regardless of emotional attachment to Welker, the Patriots ultimately thought that Amendola is the more valuable player at this point. This is evidenced by the Patriots lukewarm offer to Welker and failure to match Denver's offer. Furthermore, they gave money comparable to what Welker received to Amendola. This means that New England preferred Amendola over Welker. Whether you agree or not, this is a fact.

    You can argue all day about Welker's toughness, heart, and what he means to the franchise. How much value these attributes possess is an entirely subjective matter...

    With that said, what isn't a subjective matter is the follow:

    • Amendola is 5 years younger than Welker.
    • Welker is bigger and taller.
    • Amedola has longer arms which allows him to present more of a threat down the field and catch the ball away from his body easier.
    • Amendola is more of a playmaker at PR and KR.
    • Amendola is much faster in a straight line.
    • Due to many of the aforementioned attributes, Amendola is capable of presenting a bit of a deep threat and move outside hashes at times.

    It is also very true that Welker wasn't happy with New England and was carrying a personal grudge. Fair or not, this would have made any relationship going forward strained. Further to this point, Welker clearly wanted to leave. He turned down a very impressive contract offer last offseason and instead took a marginal deal from the Broncos. He wanted out and the Patriots didn't appear too concerned about that.

    Now as for durability issues and chemistry with Brady, these are somewhat legit concerns, especially the latter. As for durability, it's not like Amendola is pulling hammies and tweaking ankles... this doesn't appear to be an injury prone player. He suffered a broken elbow and a broken collarbone. These are freak injuries that happen. I firmly believe that moving away from that unforgiving artificial field in St. Louis will help him immensely and these type of hard-impact injuries won't occur.

    In terms of chemistry, that's something that will be tough to answer until we see Brady throwing to him. With that said, Brady is a hard-worker and Amendola is a motivated young man. If they both put in the work, and I can't imagine why they wouldn't, I don't expect them having too many issues getting on the same page.

    Ultimately I'm pleased with the signing and think it gives them the opportunity to improve in the immediate future, and definitely improves their longterm outlook. Welker was getting older and ultimately the Patriots thought Amedola the more valuable player at this point. Whether you agree or not, this is a fact and this gives me confidence in Amendola.

    Barring anymore freak injuries, Amendola is very likely to upgrade the WR position as well at the PR/KR spot for us both in the near and longterm future. He is a hard worker, and he possesses plenty of that heart & soul that Welker has. He will run through a brick wall to win a game and gives 101% on every play.

    Obviously there's some emotional sting to losing Welker to the Broncos and Manning, but looking at this in a strictly objective way, I struggle to see how this isn't an upgrade for the Patriots.

    If we continue to upgrade our defense and add another piece at WR, this team will be improved and in an adequate position to contend with the Broncos for the AFC Title.



    Very good take on the situation. I do feel the need to challenge you on your statement about how Wes is feeling and saying it as if it was fact. I think a lot of suppositions have been accepted as fact. Unless you have hada  one on one conversation with Wes or you have a reliable source who has, declaring how he feels is a guess at best.

    That being said, if you have had a one on one conversation with him or a reliable source who has....my humblest apologies for the challenge!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: The Cold Hard Facts

    Speaking about "cold hard facts":

    - http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/back-to-basics-new-england-patriots-can-win-even-thrive-without-wes-welker/21678/

    - http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/buh-bye-wes-welker-10-reasons-new-england-patriots-made-right-move/21799/

     

     

     

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