I guess 13-3, 14-2 in rebuilding years means you're in decline. Ok.

In Response to Re: The Decline Of The New England Patriots And Tom Brady:


I'm glad you see it my way.

Manning couldn't win the big game that's why the Colts cut him. The SB that the Colts won  was nearly blown by Manning. He just isn't clutch like Brady, the pressure gets to him big time. This is from the perspective of a Jets fan.

Didnt they use to call Tom "Mr.Clutch" or something?
I think we should call him "Mr.Fumble,
Tom Brady Career Fumbles:   78  (36th all time)
Tom Brady Career Fumbles Lost:   30  (7th all time)
(insert sound of crickets chirping)
As it can be seen, since the Patriots lost Adam  Vinatieri (and the use of video Surveillance) Tom Brady isnt so "clutch" after all.
2006- Pats allow a historic comeback by the Indianapolis Colts in the AFCCG. Peyton Manning does what all Pats fans claimed he would never do and got his championship.
2007- Belicheat realizes without videotape of opposing defenses Brady needs big time weapons. He goes out and gets Moss and Welker countering the "more with less" argument Pats fans blathered about for years. The Pats are so mad because THEY cheated that they went out and demolished teams, punishing everyone they played for THEIR cheating. They complete a perfect regular season only to fall to another Manning in the SB in the most historic choke job of all time.
2009- Brady's back, that means another SB guaranteed right? WRONG! Brady comes back scared of his own shadow, leads the Pats to the exact same record Cassel did just one year before, and they go ONE AND DONE in the playoffs against the Ravens. Mr. Brady fumbled the ball 3 times  against Baltimore. Passing: T. Brady (NE) - 154 YDS, 2 TD, 3 INT .Fans sat in frozen silence. Barely into their seats, they saw the shocking truth on the scoreboard.Five minutes into the game, New England trailed the Baltimore Ravens 14-0. Just one minute later the crowd came to life, booing Tom Brady and his teammates.Tom Brady lost a fumble and was picked off three times.  Brady looked  like he was thinking more about photo sessions with farm animals and cheap cologne ads than being the leader of his football team.
2010- ONE AND DONE AGAIN!! This time they got destroyed by Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan. Mr. "clutch" couldnt even score a TD. (I mean, seriously, if you have to cheat to beat the Jets, you are doing something wrong.)
2011- Lost as overwhelming favorites to the Giants....AGAIN!!    Brady was less than steller as he gave the game away on the very first play by stupidly throwing the ball away from his own endzone.
As you can see, when it comes time to step up in big games, Mr.Brady dosnt have what it takes.
In Super Bowl XXXVI;* The Patriots won the game on another Adam Vinatieri field goal as time expired.
In Super Bowl XXXVIII;* The Patriots won the game on another Adam Vinatieri field goal
In Super Bowl XXXIX;*  Adam Vinatieri Gave the Patriots a 24-14 lead with a 22-yard field goal midway through the fourth quarter, a boot that ended up providing the Patriots' three-point margin of victory
Playoff game, against the Oakland Raiders;* They won on an Adam Vinatieri field goal in OT. The 2001-2002 AFC Divisional Playoff game, widely known as the "Tuck rule game"

(The 2001-2002 AFC Divisional Playoff game, widely known as the "Tuck rule game" (although also alternately known as "Snow Bowl," or, pejoratively, "Snow Job") was the playoff game between the New England Patriots and the Oakland Raiders. It took place on January 19, 2002 at Foxboro Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts, then the home stadium of the Patriots. The name "Tuck rule game" originates from the controversial game-changing play.
Citing this rule, referee Walt Coleman determined that the rule applied because Brady's arm was moving forward before he decided not to release the ball and Brady had not subsequently "tucked" the ball into his body. Thus, the original call was overturned, and New England maintained possession despite Brady having both hands on the ball at the time of the sack.)
 Brady has no unique skills.  He's the beneficiary of a well-built team by Bill Belichik and Robert Kraft.  He's the beneficiary of gutsy calls, cheating, and game-management by Belichik.  Brady's the beneficiary of NFL rules to protect the passer that inflate stats, which cannot be denied.
Brady didnt win those SB'S, lucky for you , you had a good kicker !
  If not for Vinatieri, the Patriots would have lost the Tuck Rule Game, and the Super Bowls against the Rams, Panthers, and Eagles.  Vinatieri kicked the game-winning field goals against the Rams and Panthers, and kicked the go-ahead FG against the Eagles.

All that anyone has ever said in Brady's defense is he's "cool," in crunch time. Frankly, I must wonder, how hard is it to stay cool when you know that you're cheating?
'Stay cool. We can't lose. We're cheating.'
Ever since Spygate was exposed, Brady has lacked many of those "magical" drives that defined his early career, which would explain the Super Bowl debacle against the Giants in 2008.
There are even clips of Brady saying, "Always cheat."
Before Spygate, Brady was a cheater. After Spygate, he had the fortune of throwing to Randy Moss, whom has been involved in record setting offenses of the 1999 Vikings and the 2007 Patriots.
Moreover, Moss also made Daunte Culpepper a star, whom challenged the single-season TD record in 2004, only for it to be taken by Peyton Manning.
Difference being that the Patriots have no class. They ran up the score in 2007, many times.
Stunningly, in 2004, Manning could have broken the record for TDs in a season against the Ravens, after Baltimore turned-over the ball in its red zone. Yet, Manning took a knee to end the game because the Colts did not need the points.  After the game, Ray Lewis thanked Manning for not running-up the score.
In 2009, we have seen Brady for what he really is; a classless shrew that laughed in the face of Lewis, because Brady knows that the NFL will protect his sorry butt to the detriment of other players.
As well, you can't judge Brady by his Super Bowl rings in the argument for the Hall of Fame. The Hall has made a precedent of excluding players with multiple rings (Jim Plunkett, Terrell Davis, etc.) that don't have the stats they love, or who seem to be the product of a system or other forces.
Brady has certainly benefited from forces other than his questionable abilities. You can't point to Brady's stats since 2007 without considering the impact of Randy Moss.
And you can't look to Brady's stats before 2007 without considering the influence of Spygate and NFL rules that have inflated passing stats.  You also can't look to Brady's Super Bowl "heroics" without considering Vinatieri and Spygate.
Some might say that Moss stunk in Oakland, which is partly true, but it clearly resulted from a lack of desire. Moss submitted to the muckraking by Raider haters, and thus tuned out until he was traded.
Personally, I think that the only quarterbacks from this era that belong in the Hall of Fame are Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb, and maybe Kurt Warner.  Maybe.
The only Patriots that belong in the Hall of Fame are Robert Kraft, Bill Belichik, Adam Vinatieri, Corey Dillon, Willie McGinest, Richard Seymour, and Randy Moss.
And that is why Tom Brady is clearly the most overrated quarterback of all time.  Brady is the greatest quarterback, not by a mile.
To believe such, is just delusion.

Far be it for me to ever stick up for the Patsies but you are way off on this one. The Patsies are a great team, if you know anything about football you have to admit that. I don't know what this cheating thing that you speak of is.. Did they change the score on the scoreboard in mid game or something?

The truth hurts...Even the Mods know it. That's why they keep deleting my posts when I prove all you Patsie trolls wrong.

Guys, I am amazed at the quantity of responses to this thread. Are you guys really wanting to respond to every stupid thought some mindless goofball floats?

And ManningRules: will you say right now that you will bet that the Broncos beat the Pats in the regular season matchup? WIll you bet right now which QB will QB the team to the most wins of those two teams? Will you bet right now which team will go further into the playoffs?... And will you admit here you were wrong if and when it comes to pass?

My money is comfortably on the Pats and TB.

In Response to Re: The Decline Of The New England Patriots And Tom Brady:


No bet.

You're on. I'll take the Bronco's. 

Yes I will.