The Elephant In the Room

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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    I personally wanted more runs but I knew that was going to be the game plan.
    I would have approached that game almost exactly like I approached the Jets game because the Ryan twins have a very similar defensive philosophy. My guess is the Pats didn't think they could run the ball consistently against this D???? I'm glad we won after turning the ball over 4 times and I'm even more glad that the defense stepped up but yes, I wanted more running plays also. I found it particularly frustrating when they hand the ball to BJGE on 1st and he gains 9 yds. Then we drop back to pass and get sacked. The offensive line was suspect yesterday against the pass rush and I think they could have made a better effort at pounding the ball right up Dallas' @#$. I'm not talking about the 64 Packers offense but I think they could have run more BJGE out of that no huddle for good results. Sometimes it seems like I think the Patriots are a better running team than the Patriots think they are.

    As far as the screens, I thought those 2 TE screens to Gronk were great plays but the couple of times we tried to screen to the RB were  disasters. We need to get better at that and I don't blame O'Brien for not calling more screens because we seem to mess them up at least 50% of the time.

    It's pretty tough to get mad about that win yesterday though.
    Unfortunately for you King I believe what you see is what you get with O'Brien so I think you'll be creating at least 5 more of these threads by the end of the year.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    In Response to Re: The Elephant In the Room:
    [QUOTE] The offensive line was suspect yesterday against the pass rush 
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    Eh?  Brady holds the ball forever.  Demarcus Ware is a monster.  That is all.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    If play calling in this game was questionable it was Dallas running the ball three times and out and giving NE the ball with 2:50 minutes left in the game. Garrett handed this game to Brady.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    This team was forced into punting TWICE!    Man, something is wrong.  Must be the play-calling.
    You got to be kidding me. There are so many factors involved.  Besides, hindsight is 20-20.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    In Response to Re: The Elephant In the Room:
    [QUOTE]One of those was off a 2nd and 1. Yup, there absolutely is something wrong. We have an RB who has never fumbled and we don't use him.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    On that drive we ran on 2nd and 1 and BJGE was stuffed for a 3 yard loss.  I don't disagree with you, but that isn't the best example imo.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    I agree that the offense seemed slow to adjust to what Dallas was doing, but the Dallas D had a lot to do with that.  Granted, the Pats were moving the ball when the two INTS and fumble happened, but I am starting to cringe when I see Brady in the shotgun in situations where the run seems to be working.  I definitely expected to see a few more draws and/or screens to counteract the Dallas pass rush, and the Gronk screen was a thing of beauty.  Imagine Hernandez getting more screen passes?  I do. 

    Overall, it was a great game and it's nice to see the Pats overcome their sloppy play.  A lesser team would've panicked and lost. 
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    The places where I think a compelling argument can be made about abandoning the run too soon are on the first drive of the game when we got inside the Dallas 10, the first time we punted and on the 2nd INT drive.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    In Response to Re: The Elephant In the Room:
    [QUOTE]No. I am talking about the sack Brady took after the 9 yard gain by BJGE. Again, it's the running the ball in the first half, not the one-off situation when we don't run it well. Look at Woodhead. He comes in, they smell the bligatory run with a different body on the field and he doesn't nothing. It's not Woodhead's fault.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I agree the runs with Woodhead were stupid, but the 2nd down you are referring to ended up being negated by the 45 yarder to Branch so they didn't really suffer for it.  My previous post is where I think forgetting the run really hurt (i.e. we actually paid for it then and there)
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    In Response to Re: The Elephant In the Room:
    [QUOTE]One of those was off a 2nd and 1. Yup, there absolutely is something wrong. We have an RB who has never fumbled and we don't use him.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    To me this is about not wanting to see a repeat performance of the last 2 playoff games we've played. I know we're going to win 12-14 games this year but if we meet up with a team like the Ravens in the playoffs we're not going to be as fortunate as we were yesterday under the same circumstances. I.E. The Ravens are better than Dallas on Offense and defense and our offense is going to have to be impeccable.

    I'm not sure why there is anything wrong with that thinking. I'd like to win this year in the playoffs for a change.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    Couple of observations about yesterday's play calling: 
    *I don't have the numbers but, based on the number of times Brady audibled and the utlization of the no-huddle, I'd venture to say that Brady called as many plays (or perhaps more than) as O'Brien.
    *Dallas' run D is stout to say the very least.  I'm guessing they had run plays in there to keep the D honest but otherwise were expecting to emphasize the run even less for this game.
    *4 turnovers - 1 ST fumble, 1 Hernandez fumble, 1 tipped ball and 1 horribly forced pass by TB, that was what kept the Pats scoring down.
    *The Dallas D is not to be discounted.  They played hard and well.
    *I listen carefully to BB when he speaks publicly post-game and sometimes I even pick up a tidbit or two.  In his post game PC, BB said (to the best of my recollection):  'This was not an easy game, ok.' That's not something I've heard from him before.  From that I infer that the Dallas Cowboys are nobody's Petyon-less Indianapolis Colts.
    *The play-calling on the final Pats drive (probably Brady's from O'Briens offensive game plan) resulted in the game winning TD.

    O'Brien's play calling may very well be out of his a $$ but I don't think I can make that assessment.  
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    Brady makes the calls on field for sure, but thats what coaches are for, to coach players and make "In game adjustments"

    This as simple as I can make it....when the best QB in the league with one of the best o-lines in the league gets hit 8 times then they are doing something wrong.

    Two reasons this can happen:

    1: The o-line suddenly just has a bad game and gets beat on individual assignments over and over again, or....

    2: Passing against 7 d-backs covering 4 receiving options is causing the Qb to hold the ball longer then he would and he is getting blasted over and over again.



    Now every time Benny touched the ball(until the last 2 when Cowboys actually played the run for the 1st time) he gashed the boys for 5 ypc.

    It is not blasphemy to suggest running more then a 2-1 ratio is a good thing,when you are consistently seeing 7 d-backs(as BB said in his presser)

    Unless we want to continue seeing Brady getting lit up and possible tip ball int's we need to utilize at least 1 of the 4 capable rb's on the team.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    I agree with that set of plays being peculiar.  We had just ruan Benny for 9 yards and what do we do?  go to the shotgun and then they were at 3rd and long after the sack!?  I was upset about it too and I know things like that get overlooked when you win,. but its little brain farts like that that will come back to bite you.

    Its pretty simple, its called sticking to whats working and keeping your qb from getting killed by the leagues best pass rusher!

    I knew they would try to get Brady on t.v. and thats the problem. Sometime you have justify him getting 20/mill/year and he def. earned it w/ the comeback but let the RB's do their job. After Ridleys first run that went for a 1st he was curiously absent the rest of the game

    I saw a vareen sighting but the playcall was awful..*shotgun again,.,,,lol
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    I saw a number of examples of Dallas's errors and terror versus the up-tempo.  If I were to criticize the Patriots, I wouldn't start with the offense just because they didn't keep the 30+ points NFL record going, and in a windy, snowy, non-dome stadium no less.  The previous 30+ points record setters were in domes.

    Does a flea look like an elephant through a magnifying glass?
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    Even the best O lines (and the Pats' is a pretty good one) get beaten by good pass rushers and Dallas' is better than most.  That doesn't mean that Brady and the O are doing something wrong; it means that Dallas pass rush got penetration on that particular occasion.  8 times in 41 passing attempts is more than I'd like to see Brady get hit but I'm not entirely sure that it's 'over and over again'.

    I'm not suggesting anything is blasphemy nor am I suggesting that anyone posting on here is wrong.  I'm merely offering my perspective and, the way I see it, there may very well have been a legit reason they decided not to run.

    They ran against Oakland successfully; they ran agains the Jets successfully.  I'm guessing we'll see more running plays going forward. 

    At the risk of repeating myself, Dallas is a good football team with an above average pass rush.  I think the Pats did quite well to win that game especially when you take into account the mistakes they made.

    Just my opinion.
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    Interesting thread. Minus the turnovers this game would not be as close although I have to give the Dallas D some credit. I have noticed many times this year that we get greedy and go fo the big play instead of the sure 4-5 yards with BJGE. The thing about 2nd and 1 is that many times OC's like to go fo the big play thinking that you'll still have 3rd and 1 if you don't connect. Even against the Jets we should have run more. They couldn't stop us. I still hold out hope that if this D continues to improve and Big Al, Carter, and Ellis are productive we're going to be a juggernaut! One last point, I do predict that Ohco has played his last game. At this point I would like to see Edelman in there. I don't think that being the 5th option sits well with Chad and this will not end in a good way...
     
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    Re: The Elephant In the Room

    In Response to Re: The Elephant In the Room:
    [QUOTE]41 passes, 21 runs. It's hard to ignore it. It needs to be more balanced than that.  25 runs/35 passes is more reasonable, for example. The only time I want to see 40+ passes is against a mediorce or bad D or when we are trying to come from behind.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    They had 9 straight pass plays on the final drive. Prior to that they were 60% 32 pass/ 21 run. It would have been kind of retar ded to run the ball on the final drive. If they were ahead on the last drive you may have seen 90% runs. Overall I saw nothing wrong with the play calling. They ran quite a bit, sometimes they got ten yards sometimes nothing. It looked like the best run defense the Pats have seen.
     
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