The Future...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    The Future...

    To ALL:

    Kyle Arrington, Darius Butler, Patrick Chung, Devin McCourty, Brandon Merriweather, Terrence Wheatley, Jonathen Wilhite, James Sanders, Brandon McGowan = 9 Starters who have seen the most snaps this year in New England's Secondary.  Combined number of years played in The National Football League (including this year's worth of 5 total games as a complete season) = 2, 2, 2, 1, 4, 3, 3, 6, 6 (2 with patriots)...Combined Pro Ball Experience: 29 years. Average years as a Pro Football Player (including this 5 game season mind you) = 3 years (3.2 including this 5 game season)...MOST of whom, with the most number of years (Wheatley, Wilhite, Sanders & McGowan, with the lesser number of snaps).  First 5 players with MOST snaps this year, Combined Pro Football Experience = 2.1 years of NFL Experience (including this 5 game season).  Sub-par New England Front 7 Pass-Rush.

    Receivers/TEs Faced thus far for this group: 
    Andre Caldwell, Jermaine Gresham, Chad Ochocinco, Terrel Owens, Jordan Shipley, (other offfensive weapons: Carson Palmer, Brian Leonard, Cedric Peerman, Bernard Scott);
    Jerricho Cotchery, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, Dustin Keller, Brad Smith, David Clowney, (other offensive weapons: Mark Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Joe McNight, Ladainian Tomlinson);
    Lee Evans, Steve Johnson, Donald JonesRoscoe Parrish (other offensive weapons: Fred Jackson,, Marshawn Lynch, CJ Spiller);
    Davone Bess, Anthony Fasano, Brian Hartline, Brandon Marshall, Marion Moore (other offensive weapons: Chad Henne, Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs);
    Anquan Boldin, T.J. Houshmandzadah, Derrick Mason, Todd Heap, Ed Dickson, Dennis Pitta, Donte Stalworth, Marcus Smith, David Reed, Ray Rice (other offensive weapons: Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Willis McGahee);

    I mean, these are not small names on guys thus far testing New England's main secondary with an average starter year time of just above 2 years, right? 
    Good future omen, from a bonafide "RE-building" for New England?
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: The Future...

    Right good point, but we rank 29th still so I am having a pressed time buying into all of it.  Not to be negative because I believe in Butler unlike most, and love the play of McCourty.  I do hope they get better though.  Bodden is a big part of the next three years, while the rest will have to get better (my eye's on you Butler)


    As far as tomorrow.. GO PATS! 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from foxboro1. Show foxboro1's posts

    Re: The Future...

    mcgowan?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: The Future...

    The Pats have turned over more than half the team with their youth movement and look (so far) to still be right in the thick of the league's elite teams. I don't see how even the most spoiled of Pats fans (you know who you are) can't be looking to the future with a big, sh*t-eating grin on his face.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: The Future...

    One thing you have to consider when grading the Pats on defense.  It gets better per game.  Looking at an average is deceptive.  We do not have a trend either so we need to take some time on this.  SD on the road will go a long way on grading this defense.  The defense has not put a full game in to this date.  We need to see 4 quarters of football then we can start talking.  It really is a mixed bag at this point.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: The Future...

    In Response to Re: The Future...:
    Right good point, but we rank 29th still so I am having a pressed time buying into all of it.  Not to be negative because I believe in Butler unlike most, and love the play of McCourty.  I do hope they get better though.  Bodden is a big part of the next three years, while the rest will have to get better (my eye's on you Butler) As far as tomorrow.. GO PATS! 
    Posted by Getzo


    ~First, TOTALLY Agreed Prairie...This IS suppossed to be (in my many past & still current estimates)-Year #2, of at most a 3 year Total & Complete Overhall for this NE Squad.  So sick of guys sayin', "Ehhh, We only finished with the best record in our Division for the 10th straight year, but haven't won the Superbowl in like 4 or 5 years...we s#ck."  With Salary Caps, Free Agency, Player's Ages, Injuries, Roster Limitations & Ceilings on Player Numbers, Coaching Changes & Departures, Steroid Testing, & League Rule Changes, Teams aren't SUPPOSSED to win the freakin' Superbowl EVERY Year, or 2, or 3, or even 4!  Jesus teams STILL rebuild!

    ~THIS being said (& Getzo, above ain't directed at you), Getzo-Some of your numbers are misleading: 

    #1. Remember, INCREDIBLY young Defense, and in particular here, NE's Secondary.  Most guys again, Have been in the Pros (yet again, INCLUDING this year)=2 Years in TOTAL!  Ya wanna be kind?  2-3 Years, including this one...that's unreal. 

    #2. These 1st & 2nd year Pros have been goin' against some unreal Offenses, with Pro-Bowlers and Offensive passing weapons who are loaded and have been around for a long time in the NFL, and know their stuff. 

    #3. Pass-Rush: Several NFL Teams are in their 20's for Sack Counts...NE's @ 10 Sacks in 5 Games=2 Sacks a Game, big whoop (and it seems BB's been sending more guys MORE often because of this lack of backfield pressure, so there's even less help there in pass-coverage). 

    #4.  A BIG One...Even though BB's been sendin' an extra guy, it usually IS as a blitzer.  Meaning, Even though 4-5 defenders are rushing the QB, and even though NE does use a 4-3 and moreso these days, a Big Nickel Defense, New England is STILL happily married to the 3-4 DefenseAnd it's the original (most original/basic) form of the 3-4 Defense ("Fairbanks-Bulloughs" I believe).  This IS, no doubt, denying, or whatever, A Complete "Bend but Do Not Break" Defense, AS an entire Defensive System...

    This means a few things...
         #4-a  This DOESN'T Translate very well to your basic NFL Team Defensive Major Stats.  Because, you're gonna keep the other teams's offenses on longer drives, under the notion that they WILL eventually mess up (fail to convert a 1st, turn it over some way, & overall get frustrated, perhaps at worse hopefully just get a field goal).  See, It's a number's game...and NE's winning this year.  Here's some reasons WHY:  The Defense is younger & a little deeper (especially in the secondary in this pass-happy league)...Meaning:  Fresher legs and more depth to stay on the field during these longer oppossing offensive drives.  This basic 3-4 Defense also has been working not simply because of these fresher legs, but because NE HAS been making plays when they're needed...You point to a "Bad" Defensive Yardage Stat or Points Allowed Getzo, I'll point to a 11-7 Oppossing Offense Touchdown To NE's Defensive Turnover Ratio, thus far...not too bad. 
         Finally, Some Tough B.S. penalties (all but 1 or 2 teams above them, have played those 6, not 5 like NE, Total Games thus far...IF NE had actually played 6, doin' the average, their D would be just outside the Top 1/3rd in Total Penalties. Couple this with no QB pressure, it's tough on this young secondary playing some great Receivers thus far, and stayin' on the field longer).
         
         #4-b (final reason NE's Defense does NOT translate well, to your basic NFL Defensive Stat Numbers)= This very basic 3-4 Defense, for better or worse, Gambles even LESS often as the game wears on and IF and when NE gets that lead against the other oppossing NFL Team (hurts that "Defensive Stat Numbers's Game" even moreso).  I guess the Overall notion is that ya want the other Offense to go on even longer, MORE frustrating & time consuming drives, Eating up the clock & ending the game...  Some unfortunate off-shoots to this, Is that NE's Offense too, becomes less risky (NO big mistakes, turnovers, etc in wild big plays, More short yardage runs, etc.), Also-SO Your Defense has now gotta be on the field 10X longer, due to it's Basic "bend don't break system", the game lead & playin' MORE vanilla defense (no huge plays), AND being coupled with an Offense playing even less risky (less passes-even small passes get trumped by more time consuming runs...and that oppossing defense KNOWS it).  

    SOME Proof can be found right in the Game Recaps:

    Cincy Game- New England up 31-3.  Last 4 scores?  21 Points Cinci to 7 Points NE.
    Jets Game- New England up 14-7.  Last 4 scores?  21 Points NY 0 Points NE.
    Buffalo Game- New England up 24-16.  Last 4 scores?  14 Points Buffalo 14Points NE.
    Miami Game- New England up 20-7.  Last 4 Scores?  7 Points Miami 21 Points NE (game was a blowout).
    Baltimore Game- New England up 17-10.  Last 4 Scores?  7 Points Baltimore 6 Points NE.

    ~This ALL means 1 thing:  The New England Patriots get up, and try to End The Game!  NE's up, & With a bend-but-don't-break Defense as is, AND this type of Defense being on the field longer and taking an even less riskier approach to it's schematics, COUPLED with an Offense merely attempting to run seconds off the clock in order to secure a Win=By and large, Defensive Stats get KILLED.


    ....So ALL of THIS, Happens to be the great reason WHY-   jesus...I don't even remember what the subject was...WhyTF and HowTF do I ALWAYS DO THIS!?!  
       
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: The Future...

    In Response to Re: The Future...:
    The Pats have turned over more than half the team with their youth movement and look (so far) to still be right in the thick of the league's elite teams. I don't see how even the most spoiled of Pats fans (you know who you are) can't be looking to the future with a big, sh*t-eating grin on his face.
    Posted by p-mike


    Especially when you factor in the number of quality picks we have next year.  I still don't think the SB will be won by us this year, but I can't imagine how anybody can't be excited about our future.  If we hit on our picks next year, we'll have ~21 players drafted from 2009-2011.  I don't think any team in the modern era has ever reloaded a roster that fast with so many new players.

    And this was only made possible through all of those maddening draft day and other unpopular trades...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: The Future...

    In Response to Re: The Future...:
    In Response to Re: The Future... : Especially when you factor in the number of quality picks we have next year.  I still don't think the SB will be won by us this year, but I can't imagine how anybody can't be excited about our future.  If we hit on our picks next year, we'll have ~21 players drafted from 2009-2011.  I don't think any team in the modern era has ever reloaded a roster that fast with so many new players. And this was only made possible through all of those maddening draft day and other unpopular trades...
    Posted by carawaydj


    Exactly.

    Look . . .  I know it drives us all crazy on draft day(s), but I don't see how you can (logically) argue with the results. There are always going to be people willing to pick apart certain draft windows and say "What about this guy?" and "What about that guy?" But taken in perspective, the Kraft/Belichik era -- given cap and free agency constraints -- might just turn out to be the most successful run any team has ever or will ever put together in the NFL.

    So successful, in fact, that the commissioner and the sport's largest media functionary had to inflate a largely superfluous scandal in an attempt to discredit what now appears to have been merely the first half of it.

    Speaking as someone who once wore a bag over his head with Ron Erhardt's name and sincere well wishes stencilled on it to Sullivan Stadium, I would caution Pats fan not to take lightly what is happening right now.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: The Future...

    In Response to Re: The Future...:
    Right good point, but we rank 29th still so I am having a pressed time buying into all of it.  Not to be negative because I believe in Butler unlike most, and love the play of McCourty.  I do hope they get better though.  Bodden is a big part of the next three years, while the rest will have to get better (my eye's on you Butler) As far as tomorrow.. GO PATS! 
    Posted by Getzo


    They're 25th but it's a fair point.  I think we are looking at how the defense is trending twoard getting better right now.  The last 2 games they have allowed 14, and 20 points (avg 17).  That would be good enough to be fifth in the league.  Could be nothing, but they appear to be improving.

    One of the things I really like is how different units and different players are stepping up and getting things done every game. 

    Buffalo game:  The defense and SP teams struggled, the game was largely won because of the offense.  Major contributions from Brady, Hernandez, Welker, Moss and the RB's.

    Miami game:  Special teams dominated, big time players were Brady, Chung, Arrington, Welker, Green-Ellis and Tate.

    Baltimore game:  Offense struggled.  Defense stepped up and played lights out in the 4th qtr and OT.  Big time players are Wilfork, Mayo, Cunningham, Mesko, Branch, Woodhead, and Gostkowski.

    I think it's a sign of a good football team when if a player or squad is struggling the others step up and make plays to win the game.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: The Future...

    In Response to Re: The Future...:
    In Response to Re: The Future... :I think it's a sign of a good football team when if a player or squad is struggling the others step up and make plays to win the game.
    Posted by shenanigan


    Shenanigan could not be more correct.

    We know the defense isn't "lights out" and isn't likely to be anytime soon, but rising up in situations is what it's all about, and improvement is what we're looking for. The Pats are scheduled to play a team today that jbolted will happily tell you has both the best offense and (at least nearly) the best defense in the league. Sadly (for him), that team has only managed to win two games.

    Converesely, the Pats defense blows wet donkey -- as anyone outside New England will surely attest -- and the offense has been less than many of us thought it might be. And yet, the Pats are 4-1.

    Why is that, I wonder?

    Well . . .

    Actually, I don't wonder . . .   and you shouldn't, either. The best teams find ways to maximize their advantages and exploit their opponents' weaknesses. Take what they give you and take away what they want to do. I'm pretty sure that's coaching . . .

    But I know that if I say that too loudly, Indylove will just come in here and tell me what a fraud Belichick is.

    And I don't want that.



    Undecided



     
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